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Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
(04-20-2017, 06:48 PM)
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http://www.economist.com/news/asia/2...versity-shocks

On April 13th Mr Khan was pulled from the room by a crowd of fellow students. The violence that followed, partially recorded on a mobile phone, was staggeringly brutal. The attackers shot Mr Khan twice, dragged his corpse through hallways, beat it with planks and stripped it naked.

Earlier in the day a fellow journalism student had accused Mr Khan of blasphemy. That allegation appears to have triggered the attack. The penalty for blasphemy under Pakistani law is death. But it is increasingly common that vigilantes take the law into their own hands before courts get involved. At least 65 people have been murdered by mobs for allegedly insulting Islam since 1990. As often in such cases, there was no evidence against Mr Khan, apart from the claims of the classmate who denounced him, Wajahat, a disgruntled young man with a fondness for the blood-curdling rhetoric of Islamist televangelists.

The participation of so many students in Mr Khan’s murder is a sign of growing religious intolerance on campuses. Pakistan’s Islamist parties have been fanning the flames of it: since the assassination in 2011 of Salman Taseer, a governor of Punjab who had pushed for reform of blasphemy laws, support for the current ones appears only to have grown.

Horrible story, especially because everyone seems complicit with this. Young, well-educated students, elderly religious conservatives, the government, the courts, the military, the intelligence services...radical Islam has become an integral part of Pakistan.
SwiftDeath
Member
(04-20-2017, 06:52 PM)
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Awful way to go too.

Not only is the reasoning absurd if he did it, it was solely at the word of a specific student and nothing more so who even knows?

I don't even know how to start trying to fix a problem like that. It has to be soaked into the very culture itself to allow such a thing to occur
Last edited by SwiftDeath; 04-20-2017 at 07:00 PM.
King_Moc
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(04-20-2017, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chairman Yang

Horrible story, especially because everyone seems complicit with this. Young, well-educated students, elderly religious conservatives, the government, the courts, the military, the intelligence services...radical Islam has become an integral part of Pakistan.

I beg to differ.
Akuun
Member
(04-20-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Holy shit. How could you do that to anyone?
Hollywood Duo
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(04-20-2017, 06:58 PM)
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Super fucked up. Not much to discuss really.
hobozero
Member
(04-20-2017, 06:58 PM)
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Is it common for students in Pakistan to be armed?
HellforLeather
Member
(04-20-2017, 06:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Akuun

Holy shit. How could you do that to anyone?

religion gives you a hell of a mental justification
akira28
am I an eager baby bird?
am I a cute baby bunny?
(04-20-2017, 06:59 PM)
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I like to think I'd take out as many as I could with me. Just the idea of some shitbird riling up some mob of idiots to kill me enrages me.
SpaceWolf
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:00 PM)
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Awful. RIP to the student.
Last edited by SpaceWolf; 04-20-2017 at 07:08 PM.
wesleyshark
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Duo

Super fucked up. Not much to discuss really.

Yeah.. Ugh.
Mimosa97
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:01 PM)
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Waiting for the religious brigade to tell us that religion isn't the problem and that the same stuff is happening in the western so we're in no place of judging

Horrifying story. Rip to the victim.
Shaanyboi
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:02 PM)
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Fucking disgusting.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Duo

Super fucked up. Not much to discuss really.

There is actually much to discuss, especially when this is the population makeup of a country with nuclear arms
Ogodei
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:05 PM)
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The growing intolerance is simply a function of decreasing inequality, which is what we see in places like Turkey or other countries becoming less secular. Secularism was an elite attitude, and as the door is opened to more people, they're going to bring their lower-class values with them, including stronger religious opinions.

Because of this, things'll get worse in the broader Muslim world before they get better, because secularism was previously tied to class repression or outright dictatorship, and the rise of Islamic extremism as an antidote to that won't be pretty, until you get more and broader economic development that helps to moderate their views.
kittoo
Cretinously credulous
(04-20-2017, 07:05 PM)
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Bonus story-

https://www.dawn.com/news/1328114

Three sisters kill man booked for blasphemy in Sialkot

SIALKOT: Three armed burqa-clad sisters on Wednesday shot dead a man near Sialkot after accusing him of committing blasphemy 13 years ago.

Police managed to arrest the three suspects and identified them as Amna, Afshan and Razia.

The incident took place in Nangal Mirza village, Pasrur tehsil.

According to the police, the three women went to the house of Mazhar Hussain Syed, a faith healer, and asked him to pray for them. They also asked him if his son, Fazal Abbas, had returned from abroad. When told that he had returned from Belgium, they asked if they could see him. As soon as Abbas, 45, appeared before the women, they opened fire on him with the weapons they had brought with them secretly. Abbas died on the spot.

Dreams-Visions
I'm mad as hell but this sandwich is delicious
(04-20-2017, 07:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bruce Springsteen

There is actually much to discuss, especially when this is the population makeup of a country with nuclear arms

This.
GeordieMark
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:07 PM)
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That's a horrible way to go. Do these cases get prosecuted or is this stuff just brushed under the rug?
azyless
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(04-20-2017, 07:07 PM)
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"Shocked Pakistan" ? It's the law so I don't know what there is to be shocked about. That prime minister can condemn it all he wants he's just a hypocrite.
Corpsepyre
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:09 PM)
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This happened some days back here. Fucking pieces of shit, and this isn't the first time something like this has happened. It's becoming routine. Not surprised, really.

There's even a lengthy video showing what went on. Disturbing shit!
Ardenyal
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:09 PM)
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Well, if it's written in the law...


/s
Figments
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(04-20-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by HellforLeather

religion gives you a hell of a mental justification

Well, you see...

Originally Posted by Mimosa97

Waiting for the religious brigade to tell us that religion isn't the problem and that the same stuff is happening in the western so we're in no place of judging

Horrifying story. Rip to the victim.

Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. Religion is not at fault, the people who misuse and appropriate religion with their disgusting agendas and desire for power that they mask in "godliness" and "righteousness" are at fault.

And this happens everywhere. All the time, in fact, to varying degrees of sick and twisted.

Religion is the tool used, it is not the reason why these so-called "religious leaders" trick people into believing that something which goes against the core tenets of many faiths is actually a good thing.
Last edited by Figments; 04-20-2017 at 07:14 PM.
Arkeband
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Figments

Well, you see...



Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. Religion is not at fault, the misuse and appropriation of religion by people with disgusting agendas and a desire for power that they mask in "godliness" and "righteousness" are at fault.

And this happens everywhere. All the time, in fact, to varying degrees of sick and twisted.

Religion is the tool used, it is not the reason why these so-called "religious leaders" trick people into believing that something which goes against the core tenets of many faiths is actually a good thing.

Without religion, what would the justification for killing someone and dragging their corpse around be?
Hale-XF11
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:14 PM)
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You have to wonder how much hope there is for the people who commit atrocities like this to understand that what they're doing is worse than what they're condemning.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
(04-20-2017, 07:14 PM)
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Unbelievable how many people were complicit in this. Religion is cancer.
Morrigan Stark
Banned
(04-20-2017, 07:16 PM)

Originally Posted by Ogodei

Secularism was an elite attitude

What's elitist about it? Ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Figments

Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. Religion is not at fault, the people who misuse and appropriate religion with their disgusting agendas and desire for power that they mask in "godliness" and "righteousness" are at fault.

And this happens everywhere. All the time, in fact, to varying degrees of sick and twisted.

Religion is the tool used, it is not the reason why these so-called "religious leaders" trick people into believing that something which goes against the core tenets of many faiths is actually a good thing.

Not the first time I see this kind of apologist horseshit, but it's frustrating regardless. The more people keep making excuses for irrational, hateful beliefs not being "the problem", the more they will persist.

Moreover, the notion that university students (which means access to higher education) are "being tricked into believing" things by leaders is pure infantilization. These are grown, educated men, who are absolutely responsible for their actions.
Last edited by Morrigan Stark; 04-20-2017 at 07:18 PM.
Figments
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(04-20-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Arkeband

Without religion, what would the justification for killing someone and dragging their corpse around be?

Traitors to the nation, the worst scum, degenerates of society, etc.

None of these reasons require religion, and they have all been used to sentence innocents to death for no real purpose beyond solidifying and enforcing a specific power structure.

Hell, America got worked into a frenzy over supposed communist invaders influencing the nation.

Originally Posted by Morrigan Stark

What's elitist about it? Ridiculous.


Not the first time I see this kind of apologist horseshit, but it's frustrating regardless. The more people keep making excuses for irrational, hateful beliefs not being "the problem", the more they will persist.

So what exactly are these hateful beliefs that are established in the doctrine of Islam? Tell me, I'd love to know.

Religion doesn't become hateful until someone tells you you're never wrong, and every action, no matter how cruel or disgusting, is justified so long as it serves "a higher purpose".

I don't know of any mainstream religion evangelizes which that from its own established doctrine.
Last edited by Figments; 04-20-2017 at 07:24 PM.
Betty
The vision that was Planted in my brain
Does not still remain
(04-20-2017, 07:16 PM)
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Religion shouldn't be taken this seriously.

Maybe children shouldn't be indoctrinated into religion until they can make informed decisions. Make it like alcohol or driving or drinking.
backslashbunny
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(04-20-2017, 07:17 PM)
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Religion is a mistake.
Onaco
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(04-20-2017, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chairman Yang

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/2...versity-shocks





Horrible story, especially because everyone seems complicit with this. Young, well-brainwashed students, elderly religious conservatives, the government, the courts, the military, the intelligence services...radical Islam has become an integral part of Pakistan.

Fixed
DrkSage
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(04-20-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Religion is a necessary evil
zeemumu
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(04-20-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by kittoo

Bonus story-

https://www.dawn.com/news/1328114

I have so many questions and so much anger.

Originally Posted by Arkeband

Without religion, what would the justification for killing someone and dragging their corpse around be?

Bad breakup, politician said it was okay, various reasons that all just boil down to racism, etc. The mental gymnastics on justification for horrible crimes is insane.
Last edited by zeemumu; 04-20-2017 at 07:21 PM.
Prost
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:20 PM)

Originally Posted by kittoo

Bonus story-

https://www.dawn.com/news/1328114

The women raised slogans in jubilation after his death, asserting that they had finally eliminated a blasphemer.

The women, in their statement to police, alleged that Abbas had committed blasphemy in 2004, but “we couldn’t kill him at the time because we were too young then”.


What the fuck.
see5harp
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:20 PM)
What a bunch of scum.
Arkeband
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(04-20-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Figments

Traitors to the nation, the worst scum, degenerates of society, etc.

None of these reasons require religion, and they have all been used to sentence innocents to death for no real purpose beyond solidifying and enforcing a specific power structure.

Hell, America got worked into a frenzy over supposed communist invaders influencing the nation.

But the act of defiling a corpse serves some symbolic and spiritual importance, which makes it useless in a secular society, and it just becomes gross instead of being righteous. When they beat the corpse with paddles, they were still punishing 'him'. Without the idea of a spirit, 'him' stops being 'him' once he dies.
Betty
The vision that was Planted in my brain
Does not still remain
(04-20-2017, 07:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by DrkSage

Religion is a necessary evil

No it's just a waste of time. Other than Buddhism it's all about making a select few powerful men even more powerful.

That's all it's ever been about.

Convince the masses their souls are in danger and that they must obey to save themselves no matter the price.
zeemumu
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(04-20-2017, 07:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Prost

The women raised slogans in jubilation after his death, asserting that they had finally eliminated a blasphemer.

The women, in their statement to police, alleged that Abbas had committed blasphemy in 2004, but “we couldn’t kill him at the time because we were too young then”.


What the fuck.

13 years? How do you hold enough of a grudge to commit murder over alleged blasphemy for 13 years?! That's some evil.
Maxinas
Banned
(04-20-2017, 07:25 PM)
Old as hell news. Yeah, it's quite sickening, but this is what happens when extremists use religion as a form of controlling the masses.
Jonnax
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:25 PM)

Student organisations sympathetic to the Islamists have taken up the cause. They often wield the threat of a blasphemy allegation in order to browbeat university departments into scrapping courses in music or comparative religion. A liberal lecturer at Bahauddin Zakariya University in the city of Multan was accused of blasphemy in 2013 by Islamist undergraduates; he remains in jail. His first lawyer was assassinated by unknown assailants.

wow.
Simply Sami
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:25 PM)
https://www.dawn.com/news/1327745

I actually saw this the other day.

Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) chief Imran Khan, in a press conference alongside Mashal Khan's father Tuesday, issued a strongly worded condemnation of the 23-year-old's lynching on what has so far proven to be a baseless accusation.

"It has become clear during the investigation that Mashal never committed blasphemy. He was framed in a conspiracy and murdered," Imran Khan said.

"As a father, I can understand what Iqbal Khan [Mashal's father] is going through. This was a cruel deed and they used the blasphemy law as an excuse."

"I want to assure his parents that I will ensure justice for his death," Imran Khan said.

"Whoever planned his murder and whoever participated in it will be punished and made an example of for future generations," the PTI chief said.

"Even if the culprits are found to be from the PTI, they will be punished. We will not discriminate along party lines in pursuing this case," Imran Khan said.

"The entire country saw [what they did]. Even animals don't behave this way," he added.

"We will take this as a lesson and make sure no one ever misuses the blasphemy law again to murder people again," he added.

Figments
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(04-20-2017, 07:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Arkeband

But the act of defiling a corpse serves some symbolic and spiritual importance, which makes it useless in a secular society, and it just becomes gross instead of being righteous. When they beat the corpse with paddles, they were still punishing 'him'. Without the idea of a spirit, 'him' stops being 'him' once he dies.

True, that there are a lot of spiritual implications for their actions that I will admit exist.

However, even the most secular societies still have concepts of honor and disgrace for the deceased. It's a feeling rooted in sentiment moreso than religion--the body reminds one of interactions with the person from when they were alive, and so many still treat it as "their" body, even though they're not here anymore.
daviyoung
aka Theakins Buttleworth
(04-20-2017, 07:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Figments

Anyone who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. Religion is not at fault, the people who misuse and appropriate religion with their disgusting agendas and desire for power that they mask in "godliness" and "righteousness" are at fault.

the Quran has some very juicy parts regarding blasphemers and what shall be done with them so it's not really the case of people spinning it for their own agendas
Prost
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:28 PM)

Originally Posted by zeemumu

13 years? How do you hold enough of a grudge to commit murder over alleged blasphemy for 13 years?! That's some evil.

They were daydreaming about killing him as children and waited 13 years until they were adults to murder him. That's how fucking backwards it is there. There's something fundamentally broken with a culture that teaches children you're suppose celebrate and kill a person for saying a bad thing about your religion.
azyless
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by DrkSage

Religion is a necessary evil

How is it necessary
Not
Junior Member
(04-20-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Stop. Fucking. Killing people.

Like, if your culture requires you to kill people you disagree with, you're living in a fucking animalistic culture. Fight or GTFO if you can.
SlimySnake
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(04-20-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by backslashbunny

Religion is a mistake.

Pakistan was a mistake.

there are dozens of muslim countries where shit like this doesnt happen, or at least not as frequently as it does in pakistan. i dont want to insult all Pakistanis but they are a failed society. they have laws where blasphemy is punished by death and no one seems to want to do anything about it. they are all complicit. I was born in pakistan and i would like to think my friends and family wont do anything like this, but it's a democracy and they ought to vote on ridiculous laws like this.

Originally Posted by Not

Stop. Fucking. Killing people.

Like, if your culture requires you to kill people you disagree with, you're living in a fucking animalistic culture. Fight or GTFO if you can.

No one wants to live in pakistan. there was a poll a few years ago where like 80% of the population wished to leave the country.
Brakke
(04-20-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by azyless

"Shocked Pakistan" ? It's the law so I don't know what there is to be shocked about. That prime minister can condemn it all he wants he's just a hypocrite.

There's obviously a difference between a law that produces a shitty result and vigilantism that produces the same result.
King_Moc
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(04-20-2017, 07:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by SlimySnake

No one wants to live in pakistan. there was a poll a few years ago where like 80% of the population wished to leave the country.

Lets hope that 80% don't believe in this crap then.

Unfortunately, I already know that isn't the case.
Arttemis
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(04-20-2017, 07:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bruce Springsteen

There is actually much to discuss, especially when this is the population makeup of a country with nuclear arms

And went on to provide / facilitate the means for North Korea to further their nuclear program after leaving the deproliferation pact.
Primethius
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(04-20-2017, 07:35 PM)
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I think blaming it on religion here misses the underlying causes and overall issues. With the way Pakistan society is, especially culturally, religion largely ends up being a scapegoat for a lot of inner-cultural conflict. As you move to the more rural areas, especially ones without a lot of governance, it's pretty crazy just the amount of stuff elders will ascribe to religion as a means of motivation/guidance to a largely uneducated group of people.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
(04-20-2017, 07:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Simply Sami

https://www.dawn.com/news/1327745

I actually saw this the other day.

Here's my problem with Imran Khan's statement: he only objects to the killing based on the fact that the student didn't actually commit blasphemy. What if he had committed blasphemy? Would it have been okay to kill him then? (The apparent answer according to Pakistani society is "yes", by the way.)

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