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entremet
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:46 PM)
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Intel and Micron Technology have been working on a new-generation memory technology since about 2012. It's called 3D XPoint (not to be confused with 3D NAND), and it's absurdly fast. A good way to think of it is as a compromise between the speed of DRAM and the capacity of traditional flash storage. Unlike RAM, 3D XPoint is non-volatile (doesn't lose what it's storing when the power is off), and it's about four times denser. It's more expensive per gigabyte than NAND flash — the current technology inside SSDs — but it's faster in nearly every possible way, especially when it comes to latency and reading / writing small bits of data.

Now Intel has started shipping its first product with the new technology: the 375GB Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X. It's a $1520 PCIe card, working on the same NVMe standard that's popular for traditional SSDs right now.

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreak...nt-ssd-reviews
Radec
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:48 PM)
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the 375GB Intel Optane SSD DC P4800X. It's a $1520 PCIe card

linkboy
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:49 PM)
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Sweet, I'll look forward to it being in my computer in 10 years.
The Abominable Snowman
Pure Life tonsil tickle
(04-21-2017, 02:50 PM)
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Even their old PCIE SSDs are still high in price.
entremet
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by linkboy

Sweet, I'll look forward to it being in my computer in 10 years.

Tech moves way faster than that! Remember the first SSDs and their prices?

Eventually, SSDs will be the standard and these will be the new SSDs. Apple is already there basically with their entire notebook line and many other notebook makers are also there.
sirap
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:53 PM)
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TFW your porn collection exceeds the size of Intels fastest SSD
Exuro
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:54 PM)
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Huh I thought 3D XPoint was memristor tech but apparently not. Pretty cool they have a cross bar array without transistors. Wonder what they did for the sneak path issue.
Last edited by Exuro; 04-21-2017 at 03:08 PM.
Sectorseven
Member
(04-21-2017, 02:55 PM)
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Would this being noticeably faster than a Samsung 960?
Brandon F
Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
(04-21-2017, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sectorseven

Would this being noticeably faster than a Samsung 960?

It'll shave 3 more seconds off of lego city undercover load times!
WaterAstro
Banned
(04-21-2017, 02:58 PM)
I stopped looking at Intel when they switched to third party Marvell controllers.

They used to make the most reliable SSDs until then.
SwiftDeath
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sectorseven

Would this being noticeably faster than a Samsung 960?

It'll certainly be notably faster than a 960, have serious doubts it would be noticeably faster in actual use for a standard user though
Sony
Nintendo
(04-21-2017, 03:04 PM)
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I'll get an SSD when it's reliable in storing data long term.
Shogmaster
Not genuinely interested in rational debate.
(04-21-2017, 03:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sony

I'll get an SSD when it's reliable in storing data long term.

It's way more reliable than spinning platters lol
NandoGip
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:22 PM)
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Practically unrelated, but should I avoid under-$100 SSD's? I'm poor but I want to make the jump to a 120gb ssd
JordanN
Junior Member
(04-21-2017, 03:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shogmaster

It's way more reliable than spinning platters lol

And even then, the advantages of SSD outweights any disc hard drive.

I can never go back to those 3 - 5 minute loading times when you first boot up a PC.
TheOfficeMut
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sony

I'll get an SSD when it's reliable in storing data long term.

You sound like Sony.
Iceternal
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:25 PM)
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I'll get SSDs when they're cheaper. Because they're stil lvery expensive.
Netherscourge
I am very insecure about the visual capabilities of the PS4
(04-21-2017, 03:25 PM)
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$1520 375GB PCIe card

$4 a GB
Exuro
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(04-21-2017, 03:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by NandoGip

Practically unrelated, but should I avoid under-$100 SSD's? I'm poor but I want to make the jump to a 120gb ssd

If you're using an hdd right now then anything will be better, though always check out reviews as like most products there will be duds that you should ignore. Under $100 for a 120 is a pretty typical price. I got my 1TB for $200 so you could easily find a quality ssd at 250GB for around/under $100.
paskowitz
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(04-21-2017, 03:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sony

I'll get an SSD when it's reliable in storing data long term.

Uh... SSD =/= RAM. Unless you are rocking magnetic tape in your home server... there is nothing more reliable than SSDs ATM.
SRG01
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:28 PM)
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I thought X-Point had been panned so hard that it isn't even close to their engineering claims, especially with all the development/engineering news from last year.
capitalCORN
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:30 PM)

Originally Posted by sirap

TFW your porn collection exceeds the size of Intels fastest SSD

My MUSIC collection is nearly triple that.
Strangelove77
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by NandoGip

Practically unrelated, but should I avoid under-$100 SSD's? I'm poor but I want to make the jump to a 120gb ssd

I have a 120gb ssd for the OS and programs and a 1tb hdd for music, videos and everything else in my MacBook. It works out really well. It's definitely worth the upgrade.
Mitch
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by sirap

TFW your porn collection exceeds the size of Intels fastest SSD

Sch1sm
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by sirap

TFW your porn collection exceeds the size of Intels fastest SSD

You still keep porn on your drives?

---

Who the hell is buying that.
BernardoOne
For you.
(04-21-2017, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sony

I'll get an SSD when it's reliable in storing data long term.

It's more reliable than HDDs so not sure what you even store your stuff in.
entremet
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by NandoGip

Practically unrelated, but should I avoid under-$100 SSD's? I'm poor but I want to make the jump to a 120gb ssd

Originally Posted by Iceternal

I'll get SSDs when they're cheaper. Because they're stil lvery expensive.

Samsung SSD at 256GB are 100 bucks during BF.
capitalCORN
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:36 PM)

Originally Posted by entremet

Samsung SSD at 256GB are 100 bucks during BF.

I used to get 5tb Seagates for just twice that. Somehow the Toshiba was the one to crap out though.
MBR
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by sirap

TFW your porn collection exceeds the size of Intels fastest SSD

You don't want to be too quick, women likes a man who takes his time to appreciate them. I can only assume the same goes for porn actresses.
close to the edge
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sch1sm

You still keep porn on your drives?

---

Who the hell is buying that.

Enterprise is buying that. If you need e.g. a database server and you want it to be really fast, this'll help. It's cheaper than a RAM disk but faster than regular SSDs.
Meatfist
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:39 PM)
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Neat! Wish they actually gave IOPS or throughput numbers
NandoGip
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Exuro

If you're using an hdd right now then anything will be better, though always check out reviews as like most products there will be duds that you should ignore. Under $100 for a 120 is a pretty typical price. I got my 1TB for $200 so you could easily find a quality ssd at 250GB for around/under $100.

Originally Posted by Strangelove77

I have a 120gb ssd for the OS and programs and a 1tb hdd for music, videos and everything else in my MacBook. It works out really well. It's definitely worth the upgrade.

Originally Posted by entremet

Samsung SSD at 256GB are 100 bucks during BF.


Thanks guys. I pulled the trigger too slow on a deal I saw the other day for around $50.00. I'm not in a rush so I've been keeping an eye out.
SRG01
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Meatfist

Neat! Wish they actually gave IOPS or throughput numbers

Semiaccurate posted a pretty thorough collection of Intel's X-Point slides from their conferences. Charlie does rant on about the product a lot but the numbers don't lie, unfortunately.
entremet
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by capitalCORN

I used to get 5tb Seagates for just twice that. Somehow the Toshiba was the one to crap out though.

If you want to store a lot of media, go conventional of course.

But there is a different utility to SSDs, which is performance. I don't have huge media libraries, I stream everything, movies, music, TV, so my 500SSD is fine.

SSDs are simply the best upgrade for day to day performance you can buy. You can also have a mix. SSD for OS and main applications and conventional HDDs for media collections.
aeolist
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Meatfist

Neat! Wish they actually gave IOPS or throughput numbers

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11209/...se-performance

the anandtech review has intel's numbers:

Random Read (4 kB) IOPS (QD16) 550,000
Random Read 99.999% Latency (QD1) 60Ás
Random Read 99.999% Latency (QD16) 150Ás
Random Write (4 kB) IOPS (QD16) 500,000
Random Write 99.999% Latency (QD1) 100Ás
Random Write 99.999% Latency (QD16) 200Ás
Mixed 70/30 (4kB) Random IOPS (QD16) 500,000

they focus on IOPS and latency because sequential throughput isn't really higher than NAND. it's a specialized technology that's better for certain (mostly server) workloads.
capitalCORN
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:01 PM)

Originally Posted by entremet

If you want to store a lot of media, go conventional of course.

But there is a different utility to SSDs, which is performance. I don't have huge media libraries, I stream everything, movies, music, TV, so my 500SSD is fine.

SSDs are simply the best upgrade for day to day performance you can buy. You can also have a mix. SSD for OS and main applications and conventional HDDs for media collections.

I'm currently looking into tape drives for long term storage anyways. The only SSD I need is for the OS. I used to wait 30min-1hr to play a mission in Wing Commander 3, so anything modern is a cakewalk.
mr jones
Ethnicity is not a race!
(04-21-2017, 04:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by aeolist

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11209/...se-performance

the anandtech review has intel's numbers:



they focus on IOPS and latency because sequential throughput isn't really higher than NAND. it's a specialized technology that's better for certain (mostly server) workloads.

Yup.

Only thing is, as a sysadmin, there's no way that I'd be able to justify switching out 12 10k drives for these, just so our engineers could access their CAD designs a few seconds faster.
wienke
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:06 PM)
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I like the idea of even faster SSDs but current cheap SSDs are already really damn fast for my day to day use. For all that money these things cost, I doubt you'd see anywhere near the performance increase that was going from HDD to SSD.

I guess it'd be great for people with regular large file transfers?
FyreWulff
I Spit Hot Fyre
(04-21-2017, 04:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by wienke

I like the idea of even faster SSDs but current cheap SSDs are already really damn fast for my day to day use. For all that money these things cost, I doubt you'd see anywhere near the performance increase that was going from HDD to SSD.

I guess it'd be great for people with regular large file transfers?

mostly servers at this point, yeah, although I could see an use for consumers where there's a small amount of it for swap or something
SRG01
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by wienke

I like the idea of even faster SSDs but current cheap SSDs are already really damn fast for my day to day use. For all that money these things cost, I doubt you'd see anywhere near the performance increase that was going from HDD to SSD.

I guess it'd be great for people with regular large file transfers?

If you want faster and cheap SSDs, you should lean towards 3D NAND instead of a new architecture.
Herne
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Abominable Snowman

Even their old PCIE SSDs are still high in price.

This is Intel we're talking about.
Izuna
Banned
(04-21-2017, 04:45 PM)
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You won't need that much tho, about 64GB and you can get SSD-like performance on a 1TB HDD.

The idea that it can replace ram and the need to replace HDD technology is interesting.

Originally Posted by Sony

I'll get an SSD when it's reliable in storing data long term.

What makes you say this?
badcrumble
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:46 PM)
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Once everything is getting designed with the assumption that it'll be on NAND (ie much higher I/O workloads), this will be more likely to confer serious useful boosts to regular people over and above what NAND does.

Basically, I expect to see this being useful in smartphones before it's useful in PCs.
Izuna
Banned
(04-21-2017, 04:48 PM)
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Linus did a video last month

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO_fh450u6Y
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
(04-21-2017, 04:51 PM)
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Even regular NVME drives are expensive as fuck
turmoil
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:52 PM)
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The human eye can't see smaller load times tho
rj118
Member
(04-21-2017, 04:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by turmoil

The human eye can't see smaller load times tho

Ken M, is that you?
Shogmaster
Not genuinely interested in rational debate.
(04-21-2017, 04:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by aeolist

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11209/...se-performance

the anandtech review has intel's numbers:



they focus on IOPS and latency because sequential throughput isn't really higher than NAND. it's a specialized technology that's better for certain (mostly server) workloads.

Isn't the PCIe bus the bottleneck for seq throughput?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
(04-21-2017, 05:01 PM)
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Holy smokes. I'm impressed and interested.
Iceternal
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by entremet

Samsung SSD at 256GB are 100 bucks during BF.

I'm french. No BF here.

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