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First Halo 4 GI information (Spartan OPs, multi, etc) [Update: Campaign/More Details]

S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
Recarpo said:
I don't think he's talking about individual members of the same team, he's talking about opposite teams. Each team has a fair shot at the power weapons like his example of the pit, each team has a fair shot at the rockets and each side has a sniper for themselves.
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Right and im talking about customizable load-outs.

The rest depends on which weapons will be on the map, where they are placed and which will be dropped via the weapon drop, which is all hypothetical.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
I play MLG because I'm good at it. I long for the randomness outside of MLG and want more of it in Halo 4.
 
L

les papillons sexuels

Banned
Tashi0106 said:
I play MLG because I'm good at it. I long for the randomness outside of MLG and want more of it in Halo 4.
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the randomness exists because players are more adept at one thing then another. There will always be some random elements in a game because that is the nature of the game. You don't need perks and abilities and random respawns for that.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Some people play Halo versus to determine who has the best skill and to put that skill to the test against better and better foes, and to be rewarded for adapting and overcoming those challenges.

Some people play Halo versus because they love the sandbox and mechanics and want to play more of it outside of a campaign experience. And "fun" is what keeps those players in the game. Whether its fun to go jetpacking around while donging your enemies, or fun to jack a tank and bring hell down upon the enemy base.

And sometimes that same player might find themselves bouncing within those two extremes based on how well their day went and whether Jupiter is in the 10th house of their horoscope.

Halo is just too big nowadays to lay down one prescription that will please all the people who buy the game and keep the series flourishing. 343 has to walk one hell of a tightrope here.
 
L

les papillons sexuels

Banned
NullPointer said:
Some people play Halo versus to determine who has the best skill and to put that skill to the test against better and better foes, and to be rewarded for adapting and overcoming those challenges.

Some people play Halo versus because they love the sandbox and mechanics and want to play more of it outside of a campaign experience. And "fun" is what keeps those players in the game. Whether its fun to go jetpacking around while donging your enemies, or fun to jack a tank and bring hell down upon the enemy base.

And sometimes that same player might find themselves bouncing within those two extremes based on how well their day went and whether Jupiter is in the 10th house of their horoscope.

Halo is just too big nowadays to lay down one prescription that will please all the people who buy the game and keep the series flourishing. 343 has to walk one hell of a tightrope here.
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I agree, but the more I hear about the multiplayer, the less it sounds like halo, the tightrope they're walking is the wrong one.

The halo tightrope should be about the .1 second difference in the firing speed of the sniper, or the damage coeffecients on the vehicles, not changing the things that've worked so perfectly for the last 10 years.
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
NullPointer said:
Some people play Halo versus to determine who has the best skill and to put that skill to the test against better and better foes, and to be rewarded for adapting and overcoming those challenges.

Some people play Halo versus because they love the sandbox and mechanics and want to play more of it outside of a campaign experience. And "fun" is what keeps those players in the game. Whether its fun to go jetpacking around while donging your enemies, or fun to jack a tank and bring hell down upon the enemy base.

And sometimes that same player might find themselves bouncing within those two extremes based on how well their day went and whether Jupiter is in the 10th house of their horoscope.

Halo is just too big nowadays to lay down one prescription that will please all the people who buy the game and keep the series flourishing. 343 has to walk one hell of a tightrope here.
Click to expand...

ya exactly. Either way there will be game types like MLG and Anniversary ones without abilities to please everyone. The game has always been super customizable so i dont see what the issue is really. Its not as if they'll take the customization out or not have a/or more playlists for the more competitive players...

Its as if their upset that we'll have the option to play the game differently than they'll get to play it. Its like.....
 
A

AllIsOneIsNone

Banned
les papillons sexuels said:
alright, I'll try to post why I hate it.

The creation of perks, especially passive and non instantly recognizable perks is also the creation of a battlefield where consistent behaviour is diminished, therefore diminishing the skill and increasing the random nature of a game.

In fast paced competitive multiplayer games, seconds and miliseconds are crucial for determining the outcome of a match. The best players are the ones who have the strongest understanding of the fundementals in the game they're playing. They actively calculate the risk and reward of their situations and the ones who do so the best tend to be the most victorious. By creating user unique stats, the foundation, the fundemental elements that make a game what it is, is no longer reliable and it forces players to throw skill to the wayside and instead rely on whatever meta is most popular or overpowered at the time.

imagine the same situation in halo 3 vs halo reach:

two players (you and an enemy) enter opposite sides of a corridor with the same weapons (br/dmr) and grenades(2 frag grenades). Meanwhile another player half way through the battle starts to flank you. In both cases you're winning the firefight between the player infront of you.

this is where things start to get very difficult and where skill starts to shine.

In halo 3, you see that the enemy players sheild goes down and that your next shot will kill the player, regardless of his action, you know you will kill him. You were the better shot in the firefight, by all means you deserve the kill. You can account for any movement to lead your next shot, or use your grenades. At this point you can you start focusing on how to deal with the flanking oppenent, you can check the radar, start thinking about how you want to position your grenade throw or plan your movement. You can do this because you know that the opposing player is the exact same as you, he has the same starting health/shields, he is bound to the same movement pattern etc.

Now in reach the same thing. You see the players shields go down and know that your next headshot or grenades will kill him. However, because the opposing player has any number of skills available to him armorlock, sprint, or jetpack, you can no longer ensure your kill. You now have to acount for 3 times the amount of actions you previously had to deal with, so instead you now have to wait and act appropiately. The consistency that allowed for your skilled actions before are completely negated by the opposing players abilities. The potentional for a doublekill is nearly completely negated because your opposing player was given a free "get out of jail free" card, and even if you get the kill, the precious time spent to ensure you got the kill is no longer being used to deal with the flanking enemy.

The more "options" you throw into a game that are active on one player then another, the less consistent the game becomes and the more indeterminite and more random it becomes. Imagine if one player has more sheilds or hp, or slightly faster run speeds. All of this effects the competitive nature of how the game gets played. It's not about the perk itself, is about how players have to deal with the inconsistent nature of the battlefield.

Most comepitive games come down to two things:

meta
micro

In fps games the meta can be considered things such as map control or strategy, money management in cs, etc. The micro is how a player executes, gets kills etc.

By creating player random weapon spawns, the meta, or stategy of controling the map and weapon spawns is lost, by introducing the abilities and perks, the micro is gone.

Instead it becomes more about getting lucky, or having the most options at your disposal. A player gets a bunch of kills because they just happen to be around when a weapon drop came in instead of planning for it. A player got lucky because they just happened to have the right perk/ability for the time. It's not about who's most skilled, who was the most accurate or had the best strategy.
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I'll agree with some of this. The only thing I was saying is the match starting equal for everyone isn't the end all be all. You have to maintain that balance throughout the game, thus my killstreak to power weapon comparison. If you want a completely even game, get rid of power weapons altogether. None of the Halos have ever been an even playing field, whether they start out fair or not.

A power weapon is inherently unfair, even if it takes skill to get to it. Its the actual use of the power weapons that make it lopsided, not the strategy to obtain them. Thus, you are over-rewarded for being skilled at the game (the skill it takes to get to the power weapon), and I think a lot of veterans hate that this is going to be removed for this reason even if they don't realize it. Randomness may not reward you for being skilled, but randomness = even. Being skilled at shooting people in the face and not getting shot yourself should be reward enough; knowing cracks and shortcuts in the game is an unfair advantage. Sorry, I edited this a couple times.

1 more edit: just to clarify, I think you should be rewarded for being skilled, and I'm fine with power weapons. My point was that I don't understand how people are claiming that past halos have offered an even experience.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
les papillons sexuels said:
I agree, but the more I hear about the multiplayer, the less it sounds like halo, the tightrope they're walking is the wrong one.
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That I can definitely understand. We're seriously running out of modern shooters that provide all players the exact same starting setup and don't rely upon unlocks, streaks and XP systems. But I guess I stopped seeing Halo as that kind of game starting with Halo 3's equipment, something I think they've been trying to refine ever since.

Overdoz1z said:
PERKS?!
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We haven't gotten any new clarification on what those first Halo 4 articles called "perks" did we? Nor do we know what game modes include them.
 
K

kylej

Banned
They're clearly not perks. They're Spartan Abilities, which you can buy with Spartan Points, all part of your yearly Halo: Elite membership. Maybe settle in and play a little Spartan Ops after you're sick of playing Domination?
 
L

les papillons sexuels

Banned
NullPointer said:
That I can definitely understand. We're seriously running out of modern shooters that provide all players the exact same starting setup and don't rely upon unlocks, streaks and XP systems. But I guess I stopped seeing Halo as that kind of game starting with Halo 3's equipment, something I think they've been trying to refine ever since.
Click to expand...

The equipment however was nothing more then another weapon on the map, the latent perks/abilities however aren't. They fundementally change the basic set up of the game.

Also, the whole XP thing was hilariously forced "the player with the most skill get the most xp" yeah right, the players who play the most get the most XP, it has nothing to do with skill.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
kylej said:
They're clearly not perks. They're Spartan Abilities, which you can buy with Spartan Points, all part of your yearly Halo: Elite membership. Maybe settle in and play a little Spartan Ops after you're sick of playing Domination?
Click to expand...
Isn't it ironic that they've removed Master Chief's cod-piece?
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
From what i gathered here its basically this: Play Halo the way i play it, or else its an unbalanced mess, even though customization allows for everyone to have a (or more) playlists that will cater to them specifically. Basically.
 
L

les papillons sexuels

Banned
AllIsOneIsNone said:
I'll agree with some of this. The only thing I was saying is the match starting even isn't the end all be all. You have to maintain that balance throughout the game, thus my killstreak to power weapon comparison. If you want a completely even game, get rid of power weapons altogether. None of the Halos have ever been an even playing field, even if they begin even.

A power weapon is inherently unfair, even if it takes skill to get to it. Its the actual use of the power weapons that make it lopsided, not the strategy to obtain them. Thus, you are over-rewarded for being skilled at the game (the skill it takes to get to the power weapon), and I think a lot of veterans hate that this is going to be removed for this reason even if they don't realize it. Randomness may not reward you for being skilled, but randomness = even. Being skilled at shooting people in the face and not getting shot yourself should be reward enough; knowing cracks and shortcuts in the game is an unfair advantage. Sorry, I edited this a couple times.

1 more edit: just to clarify, I think you should be rewarded for being skilled, and I'm fine with power weapons. My point was that I don't understand how people are claiming that past halos have offered an even experience.
Click to expand...

because all things exist within the context of the match you enter. Knowledge, timining and patience are all traits tied to the ability of a player, thus the only defining characteristics are the differences between each player and their skill/understanding of the game, and not the differences created through external forces which occur before the match begins.
 
N

Nutter

Member
Silly.Mikey said:
From what i gathered here its basically this: Play Halo the way i play it, or else its an unbalanced mess, even though customization allows for everyone to have a (or more) playlists that will cater to them specifically. Basically.
Click to expand...

Yes because having 20+ playlists will solve all of our problems.

I say put all the random bullshit in 1 playlist and keep the scrubs secluded from the rest.

Tashi0106 said:
*high five*

Get shit on overdoz
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Dont you have a montage to go make so you can gain more attention within HaloGAF?
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Nutter said:
Dont you have a montage to go make so you can gain more attention within HaloGAF?
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vBL9d.gif
 
A

AllIsOneIsNone

Banned
les papillons sexuels said:
because all things exist within the context of the match you enter. Knowledge, timining and patience are all traits tied to the ability of a player, thus the only defining characteristics are the differences between each player and their skill/understanding of the game, and not the differences created through external forces which occur before the match begins.
Click to expand...

Right, so maybe some of those things are compromised in what we've learned about Halo 4, that I do understand and agree with. But I don't think the use of power weapons is necessarily one of those things.
 
L

les papillons sexuels

Banned
kylej said:
They're clearly not perks. They're Spartan Abilities, which you can buy with Spartan Points, all part of your yearly Halo: Elite membership. Maybe settle in and play a little Spartan Ops after you're sick of playing Domination?
Click to expand...

What's really sad is that you say this in jest, but the reality is not far off.
 
N

Nutter

Member
Overdoz1z said:
Hard to discuss Halo when there is no more Halo.
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True, True...

If you think Halo 4 is going to be bad, just think of it this way.. by the time Halo 5 (which builds further upon Halo 4) comes out; the old Halo we know and love will be a distant memory.
 
S

Silly.Mikey

Banned
Nutter said:
Yes because having 20+ playlists will solve all of our problems.

I say put all the random bullshit in 1 playlist and keep the scrubs secluded from the rest.
Click to expand...

Ah ok, got it. So what i said above + one playlist to rule them all, like that were sure that everyone plays Halo only the way you want. Excellent.

Also, remove Forge since its user created maps that are not properly tested by 343 and therefore, unbalanced and unworthy of Halo.

And what the hell, remove saves films too while you're at it, just for the hell of it.

Frankie are you keeping up, hire these people ASAP.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Has anyone seen this issue on the shelves of Gamestop yet? I was going to cave and buy the digital issue but apparently you need to subscribe for an entire year. They seem to be working on a plan to sell individual issues online but it's not available at this moment.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
Is 'Halo 4' launching November 6th? 'Big news' tomorrow from Conan O'Brien's Team Coco
Microsoft loves to bring together late night television and the Xbox. The Kinect (née Project Natal) was on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon just one week after being unveiled, and Epic Games' Cliff Bleszinski last year stopped by his studio to premiere Gears of War 3. (You could arguably go even farther back to Microsoft's own 2005 MTV special debuting the Xbox 360.) Now it looks like Conan O'Brien, who Microsoft once tried to woo to make a show for Xbox Live, may himself be the platform for some major Halo 4 news.

Near-simultaneous tweets this afternoon from from both Alison Stroll, Senior Producer for Halo 4 developer 343 industries, and Microsoft spokesperson Major Nelson not-so-subtly suggest "Team Coco" will have big news for the highly-anticipated sequel. (For their part, neither @teamcoco nor @conanobrien have retweeted or made reference to any announcement.) As Major Nelson specified in the next 24 hours and Stroll said tomorrow, we suspect it won't be related to Conan's show itself.

No other details are being offered, but we've heard from reliable sources close to Microsoft that the team may have finalized a release date for Master Chief's return: Tuesday, November 6th, 2012. We've also heard that it'll be announced before noon ET tomorrow. Though development cycles tend to fluctuate, locking down a pre-Black Friday release date this early gives Microsoft's marketing team ample time to plan for what we'd suspect will be one its biggest game launch this year. Will Conan and the gang be announcing the launch date? We'll know soon enough.
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