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Korey
Member
(08-13-2017, 03:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Harrison Bergeron

Are there not still populations that have high carb diets and have very long lifespans and generally good lifelong health as well?

Yes, like the Japanese for example. Nobody knows for sure why this is the case, but it may be a combination of the type of carbs eaten, the rest of their diet being healthy, amount of exercise, genetics, portion sizes, etc.

That still doesn't make carbs good. It just means they have long lifespans in spite of eating carbs. There's no redeeming qualities in carbs compared to proteins or fats.

Also, it should be pointed out that a lot of Asians have pre-diabetes or diabetes....they just don't know it. So the fact that some cultures lead "long lifespans despite eating carbs" is misleading. They are living long lifespans DESPITE eating carbs.


Edit: added some stuff from h1nch and The Shadow from below, thanks.
New002
Member
(08-13-2017, 03:30 AM)
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There's nothing wrong with limiting your carbs like with keto. There's also nothing wrong with not limiting your carbs. Carbs are fine. You can do what you need to do with 'em, or without 'em. I think carbs get a bad rap because it's easy for alot of us to over indulge on empty carbs, so by severely limiting carb intake people are like "omg I stopped eating carbs and lost all this weight!" when it's less the fact that they stopped eating carbs and more the fact that they got their calories under control by eating less food.
h1nch
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(08-13-2017, 03:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Korey

Yes, like the Japanese for example. Nobody knows for sure why this is the case, but it may be a combination of the type of carbs eaten, the rest of their diet being healthy, genetics, etc.

That still doesn't make carbs good. It just means they have long lifespans in spite of eating carbs.

The general theory I hear is that the Japanese, at least historically, eat waaay less sugar than a typical Western diet.
Icanplaythat
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(08-13-2017, 03:33 AM)
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Carbs are fine, especially complex carbs, in moderation. Sugar is the devil, but it tastes so good, that's the main problem.
The Shadow
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(08-13-2017, 03:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Korey

Yes, like the Japanese for example. Nobody knows for sure why this is the case, but it may be a combination of the type of carbs eaten, the rest of their diet being healthy, genetics, etc.

That still doesn't make carbs good. It just means they have long lifespans in spite of eating carbs. There's no redeeming qualities in carbs compared to proteins or fats.

Originally Posted by h1nch

The general theory I hear is that the Japanese, at least historically, eat waaay less sugar than a typical Western diet.

I would also say that their portion sizes are way smaller than meals in the US.
gunslikewhoa
Member
(08-13-2017, 03:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by low-G

#2. I believe those that live by low carbs will have organ failures and crap due to the extreme diet.

Keto/LCHF is not an extreme diet and there is no evidence of organ failure due to eating this way in people who have done so for decades. (yes, they exist)

Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

Almost all of the actual research does say it's psuedo-science because unless you're gravely overweight to the point your weight is a far worse concern than nutritionally poisoning yourself, it's worse for you to eat a very-high protein or very-low carb diet.

It's not a very high protein diet, though. It's a very high fat diet.
Harrison Bergeron
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(08-13-2017, 03:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Korey

Yes, like the Japanese for example. Nobody knows for sure why this is the case, but it may be a combination of the type of carbs eaten, the rest of their diet being healthy, amount of exercise, genetics, etc.

That still doesn't make carbs good. It just means they have long lifespans in spite of eating carbs. There's no redeeming qualities in carbs compared to proteins or fats.

Fair enough.

I will say it wasn't until I re-introduced carbs that I was able to really break through with my workout, and especially running performance and volume. I went from feeling pretty trashed in at the 10k mark to feeling very comfortable through half-marathon distances in a very immediate period once the diet was changed up.

Granted, I probably could have achieved the same effect by just eating more low carb foods, but I just can't digest that more complex stuff in a timeframe that would allow me get my workouts in in relation to the rest of my life obligations. Anecdotally it felt like I was getting more performance with less food with carbs.
Korey
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(08-13-2017, 03:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Harrison Bergeron

Fair enough.

I will say it wasn't until I re-introduced carbs that I was able to really break through with my workout, and especially running performance and volume. I went from feeling pretty trashed in at the 10k mark to feeling very comfortable through half-marathon distances in a very immediate period once the diet was changed up.

Granted, I probably could have achieved the same effect by just eating more low carb foods, but I just can't digest that more complex stuff in a timeframe that would allow me get my workouts in in relation to the rest of my life obligations. Anecdotally it felt like I was getting more performance with less food with carbs.

1) Exercise actually increases your body's ability to deal with the carbs you ate. It increases your insulin's effectiveness at removing the bad stuff from your blood, and converting it into energy. So you could say it offsets the damage if you exercise after the carbs enter your body.

2) Carbs are actually a good source of short term energy, so this is why a lot of athletes are fine eating lots of carbs while training.

So eating carbs for exercise is way better than eating carbs and not exercising. You can think of it as a tool for working out. Outside of that, it's still bad for you.

This is why it's recommended to go for at least a walk or something after a carby meal.
ChronotriggerJM
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(08-13-2017, 03:51 AM)
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Meh, easily the worst food group.
Harrison Bergeron
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(08-13-2017, 03:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Korey

So eating carbs for exercise is way better than eating carbs and not exercising. You can think of it as a tool.

I guess that probably accounts for the difference. Since most of us live pretty sedentary lives, and I certainly did and do (other than the exercise I've introduced) there are better foods to tailor our diets around.
gunslikewhoa
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(08-13-2017, 03:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

I mean, I get it. It’s the exact same thing with the Paleo Guys in the Paleo threads we get every once in a while or the rare Raw Food Diet thread. Someone writes a blog post/book/pamphlet that suggests that “it’s not your fault you’re fat, it’s [common food that is part of the local culture]!”

People buy into the lifestyle and culture and the feeling that they’re in a secret club abusing some lifehack nobody else knows about. It's the daily ways to reinforce the culture: the posting to the secret Fad Diet subreddit; the knowing look you give others on the same diet; the smug satisfaction of converting some co-worker who will give it up after a week to give the Fad Diet a try. That’s how fad diets work; if they didn’t they wouldn’t be a fad diet.

Its just telling that the same behaviors arise every time - the true believers say “my whole life feels better now that I stopped eating [cooked food/non-caveman food/carbohydrates]” and besides, all of the studies saying this is bad are flawed because of [some nitpick].” It’s the same thing here - how you “feel” is like 90% mental - that’s why double-blind trials exist - because placebos work and are a real thing. If you sincerely believe eating donuts all day will enrich your life, it probably will. And studies always break the same way, people find some way to nitpick them, e.g. “LOL that only tested 40% calories from carbs, that’s not a keto diet!” Except keto diets ask for as low as 4% calories from carbs. How does one figure that the health effects of carb-restriction would improve when you decrease your intake even more than the study did? It doesn’t make sense. But it doesn’t really matter what any given study says, the fad diet practitioner is going to find some way to distinguish and dismiss it in favor of the book written by the guy selling products supporting the fad diet.

Is there a person out there who can follow keto for a decade? Sure, but he won't because it won't be the fad diet a decade from now. And the people who commit to dieting fads like a religion are far and few between, despite the claims that "well I'm doing it so it's obviously sustainable!" Eating a balanced diet is susstainable. Cutting your portions is sustainable. Cutting out entire categories of food for nebulous reason is not.

Nah, man. You're right. Let's all just bury our heads in the sand and follow the food pyramid that's served us all so well for decades now. No alternative could ever be the answer. Thank goodness none of our governments are influenced by the trillion dollar food industry. They'll always be straight with us.

Originally Posted by tearsintherain

90% of people don't need to bother, if you are around your target weights and don't have issues with blood pressure, diabetes, etc.

90%? Eh...something like half the American population is obese.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
(08-13-2017, 03:59 AM)
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Different strokes for different folks, I dont know why "you" want everyone to follow "your" diet. Extremism in diets is fairly shortsighted.

Right now I fast and I do low carb because it helps me eat and feel better, what I was eating earlier was really hurting me, so I made a change and as my body changes I'll add and remove meals as well.
h1nch
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(08-13-2017, 04:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Korey

1) Exercise actually increases your body's ability to deal with the carbs you ate. It increases your insulin's effectiveness at removing the bad stuff from your blood, and converting it into energy. So you could say it offsets the damage if you exercise after the carbs enter your body.

2) Carbs are actually a good source of short term energy, so this is why a lot of athletes are fine eating lots of carbs while training.

So eating carbs for exercise is way better than eating carbs and not exercising. You can think of it as a tool for working out. Outside of that, it's still bad for you.

This is why it's recommended to go for at least a walk or something after a carby meal.

I generally agree with this. If you're very physically active, carbs are useful for maintaining energy levels, although folks who follow a ketogenic diet can usually achieve the same result with increasing their fat intake. Chris Froome has been able to win 3 straight Tour de France titles while following a ketogenic diet.

For me, I have a lot of trouble maintaining a normal exercise routine, so low-carb eating has been a wonderful way to lose weight without having to exercise. At some point I want to start doing some light weight training again, and at that time I may start introducing more carbohydrate back into my diet, however I don't ever see myself ever going back to eating more than 50g of carbs per day, unless it's a cheat day.
gunslikewhoa
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(08-13-2017, 04:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

Is there a person out there who can follow keto for a decade? Sure, but he won't because it won't be the fad diet a decade from now. And the people who commit to dieting fads like a religion are far and few between, despite the claims that "well I'm doing it so it's obviously sustainable!" Eating a balanced diet is susstainable. Cutting your portions is sustainable. Cutting out entire categories of food for nebulous reason is not.

You don't have a clue as to how long keto has been around. You also don't have a clue as to what is or isn't sustainable, and don't get me started on 'nebulous reasons.'

Here's Owsley, for example:

https://zerocarbzen.com/the-bear/

The following excerpts have been extracted from the comments Mr. Stanley made on a Low Carbohydrate Forum in 2006. He followed a diet completely free of all plant foods (with the exception of spices) for over 50 years…from 1958 (age 23) until his untimely death in a car accident in 2011 (age of 76). He has some crazy and some not so crazy ideas. I have chosen only those comments pertaining to eating a Zero Carb diet. Most of them have been copied and pasted onto this page without additional editing due to time constraints.

I don't advocate a zero plant diet, but I did have a couple of friends who took that path specifically because of Owsley and it seemed to serve them well for a couple years.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
(08-13-2017, 04:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

Is there a person out there who can follow keto for a decade? Sure, but he won't because it won't be the fad diet a decade from now. And the people who commit to dieting fads like a religion are far and few between, despite the claims that "well I'm doing it so it's obviously sustainable!" Eating a balanced diet is susstainable. Cutting your portions is sustainable. Cutting out entire categories of food for nebulous reason is not.

What about cultures that survive and thrive on fat and meat alone?
h1nch
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(08-13-2017, 04:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

I mean, I get it. It’s the exact same thing with the Paleo Guys in the Paleo threads we get every once in a while or the rare Raw Food Diet thread. Someone writes a blog post/book/pamphlet that suggests that “it’s not your fault you’re fat, it’s [common food that is part of the local culture]!”

People buy into the lifestyle and culture and the feeling that they’re in a secret club abusing some lifehack nobody else knows about. It's the daily ways to reinforce the culture: the posting to the secret Fad Diet subreddit; the knowing look you give others on the same diet; the smug satisfaction of converting some co-worker who will give it up after a week to give the Fad Diet a try. That’s how fad diets work; if they didn’t they wouldn’t be a fad diet.

Its just telling that the same behaviors arise every time - the true believers say “my whole life feels better now that I stopped eating [cooked food/non-caveman food/carbohydrates]” and besides, all of the studies saying this is bad are flawed because of [some nitpick].” It’s the same thing here - how you “feel” is like 90% mental - that’s why double-blind trials exist - because placebos work and are a real thing. If you sincerely believe eating donuts all day will enrich your life, it probably will. And studies always break the same way, people find some way to nitpick them, e.g. “LOL that only tested 40% calories from carbs, that’s not a keto diet!” Except keto diets ask for as low as 4% calories from carbs. How does one figure that the health effects of carb-restriction would improve when you decrease your intake even more than the study did? It doesn’t make sense. But it doesn’t really matter what any given study says, the fad diet practitioner is going to find some way to distinguish and dismiss it in favor of the book written by the guy selling products supporting the fad diet.

Is there a person out there who can follow keto for a decade? Sure, but he won't because it won't be the fad diet a decade from now. And the people who commit to dieting fads like a religion are far and few between, despite the claims that "well I'm doing it so it's obviously sustainable!" Eating a balanced diet is susstainable. Cutting your portions is sustainable. Cutting out entire categories of food for nebulous reason is not.

This is an avalanche of bullshit.
conpfreak
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(08-13-2017, 04:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by h1nch

Switching to a low-carb/medium protein/high fat diet has done wonders for me. I have more energy, less food cravings, and have been steadily losing weight (20 lbs since June) without any increase in excercise.

That's not to say that carbs are inherently evil. But a typical western diet has *way* too much carbohydrate to be healthy IMO. And yes, eating too much excess carbs can lead to type-2 diabetes. Furthermore, eating a ketogenic diet is the best thing a pre-diabetic person can do to reverse the trend and lower their A1c back to normal, healthy levels.

Source? I'm pretty sure it not whether you're eating carbs in "excess" but rather what type of carbs (simple vs complex carbs), fiber intake, and whether the carbs are refined or not. Sugar and whole wheat do not have the same impact on blood sugar levels, for instance.
gunslikewhoa
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(08-13-2017, 04:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by conpfreak

Source? I'm pretty sure it not whether you're eating carbs in "excess" but rather what type of carbs (simple vs complex carbs), fiber intake, and whether the carbs are refined or not. Sugar and whole wheat do not have the same impact on blood sugar levels, for instance.

Well, that's implied in his statement. Nobody believes that you're going to become diabetic from eating too many vegetables, for example.
elrechazado
Banned
(08-13-2017, 04:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by water_wendi

What about cultures that survive and thrive on fat and meat alone?

Fad cultures
gunslikewhoa
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(08-13-2017, 04:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

And studies always break the same way, people find some way to nitpick them, e.g. “LOL that only tested 40% calories from carbs, that’s not a keto diet!” Except keto diets ask for as low as 4% calories from carbs. How does one figure that the health effects of carb-restriction would improve when you decrease your intake even more than the study did?

You just answered your own question. 40% carbs will never lead a person to be in a state of ketosis. Hence, not a keto diet. 4% will. If you don't even understand that the goal of keto/lchf is to bring one's body into a state of ketosis, then you know nothing, Jon Snow.
entremet
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(08-13-2017, 04:43 AM)
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Japanese are not the only population with great health and life span that consume carbs primarily.

You have the Loma Linda Seven Day Adventists, the longest lived group in the US. They follow a high carb vegan diet.

Calling all carbs evil is incredibly simplistic.
Zefah
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:43 AM)

Originally Posted by conpfreak

Source? I'm pretty sure it not whether you're eating carbs in "excess" but rather what type of carbs (simple vs complex carbs), fiber intake, and whether the carbs are refined or not. Sugar and whole wheat do not have the same impact on blood sugar levels, for instance.

All digestible carbs raise blood sugar, which triggers an insulin response. The more you do this the more likely you are to become insulin resistant.
Queen Vulpix
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(08-13-2017, 04:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by All Hail C-Webb

Had you done a lot of research before trying low carb? Why did you decide to try it?

I don't know if you were able to enter ketosis when just dropping to 50g of carbs a day, but with the issues you mentioned, you might have.

Salt intake is very important on Ketosis, you do not get enough of it, and Ketosis dehydrates you on top of it. I have liquid electrolytes and a sodium pill that I often take.

Low blood pressure and low blood sugar are also dangerous. My wife went from pre-diabetes to a morning blood sugar of 70. Even if she doesn't feel like it, she knows she needs to eat in the morning. So she has her butter drink (yes, butter drink) ready for each morning, and that keeps her level from getting too low before her next meal.

It is also time consuming, and expensive to eat this way.

All that being said; if you have a purpose for trying ketosis, and you do all the research, it can be extremely beneficial and worth the early effort.

Just noticed, Ketosis comes up as a misspelled word. Empire, my ass.

Originally Posted by Amikami

That sounds terrifying. It's really important to do your research and talk to a dietrician, especially when you have conditions already. Low carbs causes a large reduction in electrolytes (salts, potassium, magnesium) and considering you already have low sodium, it looks like it caused a bad reaction. On keto, it's very important to 1) stay hydrated, and 2) keep you're electrolytes up because you lose a lot, expecially in the early stages. We often fuel up on broths and make what we call ketorade which is literally home made gatorade/electrolyte drink without the sugar. some choice sodium and potassium supplements. All of that said, I don't blame you for never wanting to try it again. You have to do what works for you.

Thank you both for your replies! Now that I'm home on my PC and not on mobile I'll add some more detail. I want to say I did my fair amount of research for a couple weeks before I decided to start, looking at the potential benefits of it, what foods and things like that. As for the reason why I decided to try a low carb diet is that while I'm a healthy weight and overall fairly happy with my body, not perfect but content, the one area I am a little bit unhappy with is my stomach as I still have a little bit of belly fat. Having tried simply dieting more with calorie restricting/heavy daily walking I grew fed up as all I managed to do was lose what very little upper body muscle I have and make my ribcage ever more prominent and slightly shrink my breasts all while having no real change in belly fat so it was bleh.

I read that a low carb diet can potentially be highly effective in reducing that fat in particular so I wanted to give it a try. Ketosis was something I read about quite a bit before I started my low carb attempt but I'm unsure if I ever did reach it. Getting adequate sodium intake during my low carb attempt certainly was a challenge and getting minimum calories was hard because I don't like dairy very much at all. Butter I don't like much and rarely ever use on anything, cheese I can only tolerate on a few things and not much of it, yogurt I don't like, Mayo I despise, salad dressings, sour creams and similar stuff are all things I dislike as well. Eggs I can only tolerate occasionally and only scrambled. All the above really made getting adequate calories/fat intake very hard during my low carb attempt. I also am fairly low income and my food budget for an entire month is little over $100 so that also makes it that much harder.

I do make sure to stay properly hydrated though, I drink around 12-14 cups of plain water a day and have been doing it for over a year now. I take a magnesium supplement daily and while currently I try to keep my intake of processed food to a minimum like I mentioned above I don't watch my sodium intake and usually add table salt to things as I require more of it to help with the hypotension. My doctor has actually suggested drinking Gatorade daily to help with electrolyte balance.

That event was certainly the most scariest thing I've experienced in my life. I don't remember how long I was out for and don't remember the fall itself I just heard a loud crash then regained consciousness sometime afterwards on the floor, heartbeat probably close to 200 bpm, barely able to breath, vision extremely blurry, crawling on the floor because I couldn't stand at all and thinking I was going to die while I struggled to crawl to my phone to try and call medical help, not fun >_<

Since then I essentially have just been eating what I mentioned in my first post and not really dieting anymore, staying hydrated, getting my 25g of fiber daily and eating various food groups. My carb intake is still probably low even though I dont count I'd say around 150g a day on average.
30yearsofhurt
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(08-13-2017, 04:55 AM)
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People should stop using the term 'carbs'.
They're really quite different and have different effects on you.
Glucose OK metabolised easily
Galactose OK for most
Starch OK breaks down into Glucose
Ethanol BAD metabolised by liver
Fructose BAD without fibre. Metabolised by liver.
Sucrose (Glucose and Fructose) BAD without fibre.

Most carbs in fruit and vegetables come packed with fibre.
Carbs like rice and pasta are ok in moderation cause they're mostly starch and break down into Glucose.
Fruit juice and refined sugar are just plain bad for you.
Exercise will help by speeding up your metabolism but it will never burn off excess calories by and of itself.
Korey
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(08-13-2017, 05:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by 30yearsofhurt

People should stop using the term 'carbs'.
They're really quite different and have different effects on you.
Glucose OK metabolised easily
Galactose OK for most
Starch OK breaks down into Glucose
Ethanol BAD metabolised by liver
Fructose BAD without fibre. Metabolised by liver.
Sucrose (Glucose and Fructose) BAD without fibre.

Most carbs in fruit and vegetables come packed with fibre.
Carbs like rice and pasta are ok in moderation cause they're mostly starch and break down into Glucose.
Fruit juice and refined sugar are just plain bad for you.
Exercise will help by speeding up your metabolism but it will never burn off excess calories by and of itself.

Carbs are all "bad" for you. The only difference is how fast or slow it has an effect on your blood.

So it's like arguing whether Poison A-Slow or Poison A-Fast are bad for you. Yes, Poison A-Slow is better for you because your body doesn't have to deal with a shitload of poison all being dumped into your blood at once. But they're still both Poison A.
Harrison Bergeron
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(08-13-2017, 05:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by 30yearsofhurt

People should stop using the term 'carbs'.
They're really quite different and have different effects on you.
Glucose OK metabolised easily
Galactose OK for most
Starch OK breaks down into Glucose
Ethanol BAD metabolised by liver
Fructose BAD without fibre. Metabolised by liver.
Sucrose (Glucose and Fructose) BAD without fibre.

Most carbs in fruit and vegetables come packed with fibre.
Carbs like rice and pasta are ok in moderation cause they're mostly starch and break down into Glucose.
Fruit juice and refined sugar are just plain bad for you.
Exercise will help by speeding up your metabolism but it will never burn off excess calories by and of itself.

Great elaboration on this discussion.

Maybe it's time to bust out the famed Dr. Lustig youtube video again.
h1nch
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(08-13-2017, 05:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by conpfreak

Source? I'm pretty sure it not whether you're eating carbs in "excess" but rather what type of carbs (simple vs complex carbs), fiber intake, and whether the carbs are refined or not. Sugar and whole wheat do not have the same impact on blood sugar levels, for instance.

Sure whole wheat bread is less bad than sugar (I believe it's lower on the Glycemic Index) but if you eat enough of it, it will cause an insulin spike. Having your body produce a high amount of insulin over a long period of time will eventually lead to insulin resistance which is literally what type-2 diabetes is.

I generally agree with the conclusions that are discussed in Gary Taubes' book 'Why We Get Fat'

His Google talk acts as a cliff notes version of his book - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6vpFV6Wkl4

I would encourage folks to watch it. I think he makes a compelling argument for the classic American food pyramid being wrong.
Quixzlizx
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(08-13-2017, 05:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Byakuya769

Lol. "'I hate carbs' is stupid. What they should really hate are processed foods!"

Pseudoscience abounds. A bulk of the carbs in western diets come from white bread that is chock full of added sugars. People eschewing that and eating vegetables instead is a good thing.

And none of the actual fad diets that I'm aware of, actually encourage you to eat massive servings of meat, if you actually look at the source materials for the diets. People just try the diets and tend to choose something else to overeat instead of adding more leafy vegetables, like those diets suggest.

White bread is a processed food.
Keihart
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(08-13-2017, 05:53 AM)
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Why even bother with life without carbs?

Might just put all that effort on having a daily one hour workout (like insanity) in your routine and still enjoy rice and whatnot if your goal is to get fit.
tearsintherain
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(08-13-2017, 06:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Keihart

Why even bother with life without carbs?

Might just put all that effort on having a daily one hour workout (like insanity) in your routine and still enjoy rice and whatnot if your goal is to get fit.

I really don't like exercise, I walk an hour a day but thats pretty much my limit. I know it'd be better for me but I don't wanna lift weights, run, jog, cycle, etc.

For me personally, if I eat stuff like rice or pasta I then crave also chips, ice cream, candy, etc. Sometimes I have enough will power to resist, but if I am stressed out thats the first thing I want to eat, and I can eat an almost endless amount.

Whereas eating low carb I rarely have those sugar cravings, and a small meal will fill me up to the point where I am pushing the plate away, which almost never happens with rice and curry or pasta.

So yeah, for me it basically boiled down to a willpower issue. Willpower is not infinite, and anything I can do to remove it from the equation makes life easier for me.

I still will occasionally have a cheat meal of one or two slices of pizza or pad kee mao or pasta pomodoro but its rare, I always eat it out so I'm not making extra at home, and I really enjoy those cheat meals because those carbs feel great because they are so rare.

Not to get overly dramatic because in no way do I think shitty eating is like alcoholism or drug addiction, but different people I think react to sugar differently. My wife can see a box of cookies, eat one cookie, and walk away happy and satisfied. I gotta eat that whole goddamn box and feel the joy while eating and the utter regret and shame afterwards. Psychologically wired differently, I guess.
elrechazado
Banned
(08-13-2017, 06:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Keihart

Why even bother with life without carbs?

Might just put all that effort on having a daily one hour workout (like insanity) in your routine and still enjoy rice and whatnot if your goal is to get fit.

Some people get super healthy and improve every part of their life while off them? Eating a high fat diet I lost 90 lbs, my triglycerides dropped to negligible, ldl cholesterol dropped, hdl increased, and my chronic heartburn and back spasms disappeared.
Zefah
Member
(08-13-2017, 06:24 AM)

Originally Posted by Keihart

Why even bother with life without carbs?

Might just put all that effort on having a daily one hour workout (like insanity) in your routine and still enjoy rice and whatnot if your goal is to get fit.

What "effort?" It's really easy, especially if you aren't on a super tight budget for food.
Amikami
Banned
(08-13-2017, 06:28 AM)

Originally Posted by Keihart

Why even bother with life without carbs?

Might just put all that effort on having a daily one hour workout (like insanity) in your routine and still enjoy rice and whatnot if your goal is to get fit.

Why bother with any kind of lifestyle or getting rid of anything in your diet. Why put in a 1 hour workout when you can just dramatically reduce carb. Not everyone is build the same.

They say weightloss is 90% what you eat. Whether or not that's true, a workout won't help if your eating too much shit. Eating reduced carbs often forces you to plan and make your own meals. I personally love to work out and keto actually highly encourages it, but not everyone is willing or even can workout at high intensity. Even if every single person worked out regularly, I'm willing to bet most wouldn't workout at the intensity and/or time required to burn off the carbs of the average American diet.

It's true that people have been eating carbs for centuries, but a lot f things have been done for centuries. That doesn't mean it is the right thing to do in the modern context. Carbs have become more readily available and much cheaper, while people have become increasingly sedentary. Fast food is cheap, and portion sizes are out of control. There's added sugar in everything. A moderate to intense workout a few times a week isn't enough to combat it what our social and cultural context (very American-centric) provides us and so we are all forced to make decisions that go against the norm. Let face it, we know what the new dietary norm is and the obesity weight proves it. Because I don't have time to be more active than I already am, or bike to work, or work in the garden for the carbs I eat, I just choose tor reduce my carbs. Something has to give if you want to be healthy. It's just a matter of deciding what.

Diet is key, and some of us choose Keto.
The Shadow
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Keihart

Why even bother with life without carbs?

Might just put all that effort on having a daily one hour workout (like insanity) in your routine and still enjoy rice and whatnot if your goal is to get fit.

Working out doesn't burn all that many calories and it's myth that you can eat whatever you want as long as you hit the gym. Buzzfeed did a video recently where they worked out for 45 minutes (cardio, interval, weights, etc) and it only amounted to 460-500 calories burned. It was maybe half of a burger and fries.

And no one said you have to give up carbs completely. Moderation is key. Like I said before, look at all the food you normally consume and start identifying the carbs. They're in everything (Same with sugar). You don't have to stop eating them. Just eat less.
texhnolyze
Banned
(08-13-2017, 07:31 AM)
Our people eat a plate of rice two to three times a day.

Carbs is fine.
Amikami
Banned
(08-13-2017, 08:05 AM)

Originally Posted by texhnolyze

Our people eat a plate of rice two to three times a day.

Carbs is fine.

Great refute. Right there with "i was whooped as a kid and turned out fine" a cup of rice is less than 50g of carbs. That's absolutely fine. There's more sources of carbs in a lot of peoples diets. Breads and buns and fries from a single mcdonalds meal is probably almost as much as your 3 plates of rice. Don't forget the large soda or the more innocuous apple juice. You have to consider the style around the diet. Is it a norm for your people to eat fast food often. Is it a norm to have larger portion sizes or smaller sizes. Is it the norm to walk often or bike to work. Is the taste of the cuisine in general developed toward sweet undertones. There was a thread someone had made about how sweet american breads was. He noticed it because his own bread was less sweet. The american pallete is relatively unhealthy. Cultural differences exist in the way life is lived but in general americans are becoming less healthy. Carbs probably arent a huge problem. Its excessive carbs paired with a lifestyle that cant support it thats an issue.
velociraptor
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 10:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Shadow

Working out doesn't burn all that many calories and it's myth that you can eat whatever you want as long as you hit the gym. Buzzfeed did a video recently where they worked out for 45 minutes (cardio, interval, weights, etc) and it only amounted to 460-500 calories burned. It was maybe half of a burger and fries.

And no one said you have to give up carbs completely. Moderation is key. Like I said before, look at all the food you normally consume and start identifying the carbs. They're in everything (Same with sugar). You don't have to stop eating them. Just eat less.

Whether one should eat carbs or not depends on what the current weight of an individual is or their lifestyle.

Before we start worrying about whether carbs or fats are better/worse, the most important thing is overall calories. You can be on a keto-based diet and continue to eat 3000 calories - it won't help you lose any weight if that's your goal.
MidgarBlowedUp
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(08-13-2017, 10:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by sam12

I don't understand the mentality developing which labels all carbs as evil, blaming for chronic disease development. Have a coworker who eats meat, dairy and some veggies for every meal and shuns carbs. That person also doesn't understand that veggies have carbs in them as well. Majority of the world outside of western nations eats Carbs every day with a very small amount of meat. The country I came from, we used to eat things like Rice, whole wheat, lentils, beans, cooked veggies, fruit, nuts, potatoes etc every day and only had meat like two-three times a week. Is this only a western idea to shun Carbs when they should actually distance themselves from processed foods/baked goods.

Carbs are fine as long as they aren't the simplest carbs, which is sugar. That's what's wrong with the American diet. It's just way too much sugar, it's in everything here.

Beans, nuts, non starchy vegetables, oats, are all low in simple carbs. Rice and even potatoes are unprocessed/unrefined carbs. In other words not candy.

So what you were eating is not a high (simple) carbohydrate diet.
Nintendo's Witch
Member
(08-13-2017, 10:38 AM)
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I usually reduce their intake when i'm in the definition phase ( almost to 0 ), but when i'm bulking they are necessary.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
(08-13-2017, 10:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

I have an alternate theory you stopped checking for the same reason fad diets make their creators lots of money and the same reason you apparently never looked it up in the first place.

Fun fact: Dr. Atkins died at 260 pounds.

Funner fact: Atkins weighed 195 pounds when he was admitted to the hospital where he died.
Madame M
Banned
(08-13-2017, 10:50 AM)
I like carbs I eat them all the time. Hooray for food!
MidgarBlowedUp
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(08-13-2017, 10:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by velociraptor

You can be on a keto-based diet and continue to eat 3000 calories - it won't help you lose any weight if that's your goal.


Maybe, but do you think 3000 calories of carrots and steak is processed in the same as 3000 calories Snickers and potato chips?

Not only will you gain weight faster on the Snickers and chips, you will probably develop diabetes pretty quickly. That won't happen with steak and carrots.

I'm just pointing out that simply counting calories is useless for overall health and weight. I think it's useless in general since our bodies don't actually burn anything. If they did we would be on fire.
veryslowhand
Banned
(08-13-2017, 11:05 AM)
I don't hate carbs but cutting them is the more effective way for me to lose weight, probably because it's easier to consume excessive calories in carb form.
120v
Member
(08-13-2017, 11:16 AM)

Originally Posted by The Shadow

Working out doesn't burn all that many calories and it's myth that you can eat whatever you want as long as you hit the gym. Buzzfeed did a video recently where they worked out for 45 minutes (cardio, interval, weights, etc) and it only amounted to 460-500 calories burned. It was maybe half of a burger and fries.

And no one said you have to give up carbs completely. Moderation is key. Like I said before, look at all the food you normally consume and start identifying the carbs. They're in everything (Same with sugar). You don't have to stop eating them. Just eat less.

not to get off topic but working out regularly will greatly raise the ceiling of your "calorie count". not just about what yourburn off right away
Monkeyball
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(08-13-2017, 11:24 AM)
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Is lowering carbs a lot good too? Or do they need to be gone completely for it to be effective?
Oblivion
Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
(08-13-2017, 11:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Korey

Yes, like the Japanese for example. Nobody knows for sure why this is the case, but it may be a combination of the type of carbs eaten, the rest of their diet being healthy, amount of exercise, genetics, portion sizes, etc.

That still doesn't make carbs good. It just means they have long lifespans in spite of eating carbs. There's no redeeming qualities in carbs compared to proteins or fats.


Edit: added some stuff from h1nch and The Shadow from below, thanks.

What I really want to know is what is in their diets that cause Asians to have massive calves.
Kite
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(08-13-2017, 11:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by texhnolyze

Our people eat a plate of rice two to three times a day.

Carbs is fine.

If you are talking about asians, we are at high risk of type-2 diabetes cus of all the white rice we eat among some other factors. We are often "skinny-fat". As for why the Japanese are so damn long lived, go google "shokuiku." They teach food nutrition and healthy eating in school, and their food program seems to often has the students cooking their own meals.
Pixels
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(08-13-2017, 11:36 AM)
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Wheat
Ziltoidia 9
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(08-13-2017, 11:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Monkeyball

Is lowering carbs a lot good too? Or do they need to be gone completely for it to be effective?

Most carbs (like all) are digested immediately and enter your blood stream, which causes you to produce more insulin. This cycle for some people I think is what causes people to over eat, because after the "crash" your body starts telling you its time to eat again even when you have enough energy. For me, going into Ketosis helps me not need to eat, or at least, I don't get the hunger pains 4 hours after eating. I still "get hungry" but it is a feeling that I can ignore for the most part, because my body switches over to fat burning.

A real keto diet will have you have -

- A required amount of protein, found by your lean body mass x .6 (if you are sedentary) or .8 (if you are active)
- Keep carbs under 20 (even though some people can be in ketosis on a slightly higher amount)
- Add in fat from sources, to make you feel satisfied.

Then, you need to drink your water, but also supplements are key too. I take B-complex, D and magnesium. Getting a lot of potassium from different sources is great too. I get them from no carb whey protein shakes.

There are tons of really good keto recipies out there, you just have to find the right ones and adjust your life style towards them. Yeah you can't have pizza, but you can have Italian baked chicken, cheese and a low carb sauce.

You can't have burritos, beans or rice, but you can have fajita meat, guacamole, cheese and low carb tortillas.

If you want to try it, /r/keto is a good place to learn about it. Also, I recommend downloading MyFitnessPal if you havent already. It really helps count your food.

Sorry if this was too much info...
The Greek Freak
Member
(08-13-2017, 12:11 PM)
Calories in vs. Calories out is all that matters in terms of weightloss.

However carbs are not very satiating(sp?) and don't have the nutritional benefits of protein or veggies.

So if you need a lazy simple way to try and eat healthier carbs are where to cut.

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