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Speevy
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(08-13-2017, 03:38 AM)
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Maybe Dany brought Tyrion along so she could let him watch helplessly as she burned his brother alive.

That's kind of fucked up.
elrechazado
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(08-13-2017, 03:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by WaffleTaco

House Arryn will probably go extinct in the books. Robin/Robert is as good as dead (which is why Robin being Littlefinger's son in the show makes more sense...his sigil is a damn Mockingjay)



Starks are actually pretty close from the male line (Bran becoming a tree, Rickon with Cannibals). Baratheon's are pretty close (not counting Tommen and Myrcella). Tully's are pretty close as well I believe. Lannister's are slowly dying out. Tyrells could be eventually gone, same with Martells. Targaryens are almost extinct...until Jon Snow and Faegon show up.

House Arryn won't go extinct - there's a line of succession that's clear, to Harry hardyng, who would become Harry Arryn in that case.
Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(08-13-2017, 03:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bounceounce

We actually do see one of Maces other sons, Garlan.
We've seen him a few times, he's a great character (though weve only seen him like three times max) and was actually the person who wore Renlys armor in the book, not Loras.
He's also a better swordsman than Loras (even according to Loras) and according to Grrm is supposed to have a big role in Winds.

But can he handle a lance like Loras?
Speevy
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(08-13-2017, 04:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy

But can he handle a lance like Loras?

Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(08-13-2017, 04:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

If he isn't an Arryn then what claim would he have to be Lord of the Vale? I suppose this is where the convolution comes in

It's not convoluted. Harry's dead grandmother was Jon Arryn's sister.

Originally Posted by The Artisan

If Robin really is Petyr's child then I'll care about him less. The only reason I want that boy to have a happy ending is because (I thought) he was the heir to Jon Arryn and I don't want the Arryn line dying out. But if Robin ain't his then it's already dead.

He's not Petyr's kid. Lysa would've said something to Petyr if he was.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
(08-13-2017, 04:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by elrechazado

House Arryn won't go extinct - there's a line of succession that's clear, to Harry hardyng, who would become Harry Arryn in that case.

#NoTrueArryn

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

It's not convoluted. Harry's dead grandmother was Jon Arryn's sister.

He's not Petyr's kid. Lysa would've said something to Petyr if he was.

Maybe she did off-screen? (If this is a thing I can see it being show-only)
Speevy
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(08-13-2017, 04:23 AM)
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It would help explain why Littlefinger is able to get Robin to do virtually anything.
jfkgoblue
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(08-13-2017, 04:24 AM)

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

It's not convoluted. Harry's dead grandmother was Jon Arryn's sister.

It's convoluted in that no one really knows who Robert's heir is and his name isn't Arryn, but he would have to change it to Arryn.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
(08-13-2017, 04:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

It would help explain why Littlefinger is able to get Robin to do virtually anything.

My other theory for the name change of Robert to Robin is that the show didn't want to "confuse" people...like how they thought Asha would be confused with Osha...honestly I prefer the name Yara now, because it does not more unique and Ironborny.

Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

It's convoluted in that no one really knows who Robert's heir is and his name isn't Arryn, but he would have to change it to Arryn.

Nobody has cousins in this show/book. Sure there random throw-aways, but not having cousins or second cousins bothers me. Especially with the Starks.
The Artisan
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(08-13-2017, 04:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

Davos was told by Wymen Manderly that Rickon was hiding out on Skagos under protection of the northern houses while they pay lip service to the Boltons. Stannis plans to use him as Warden of the North after Jon refused the offer.

I see. Well that's good, maybe Rickon ends up with a better ending in the books if he allies himself with Stannis.

Assuming Stannis doesn't have the same grim ending. Although, would Rickon want to ally with him if he learns that Stannis prayed for Robb's death?

Originally Posted by Bounceounce

We actually do see one of Maces other sons, Garlan.
We've seen him a few times, he's a great character (though weve only seen him like three times max) and was actually the person who wore Renlys armor in the book, not Loras.
He's also a better swordsman than Loras (even according to Loras) and according to Grrm is supposed to have a big role in Winds.

That's good to hear...I was sad to see House Tyrell be gone in the show. Another reason to hate Cersei sure, but it just feels like the Tyrells were short lived on the show, even though they've been around since season 2.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

It's not convoluted. Harry's dead grandmother was Jon Arryn's sister.

With that being the case then I definitely think he's got a claim on being the heir to Lord of the Vale.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

He's not Petyr's kid. Lysa would've said something to Petyr if he was.

I agree with you there, but, I have to admit him being Petyr's son does make some sense.

If he is indeed Jon's son though I am hoping he gets a safe ending on the show. I don't want House Arryn to die if it's not dead already.
Slater
Banned
(08-13-2017, 04:33 AM)
In the books the only Great familes that actually has a bunch of cousins are the Lannisters and Tyrells.

The Starks being so few makes sense considering where they come from, but the othe great houses have no excuse for being so few.

Like, the Targ's lost around 10 or more members in a very short amount of time twice. And that would wipeout almost any other House in the series.
Last edited by Slater; 08-13-2017 at 04:36 AM.
elrechazado
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(08-13-2017, 04:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

It's convoluted in that no one really knows who Robert's heir is and his name isn't Arryn, but he would have to change it to Arryn.

Everyone knows, that's why he's such a focus of attention and being fostered by other Noble houses. He is literally known.in the vale as "Harry the heir".

Monarchies and royal houses have things like this happen all throughout history.
jfkgoblue
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:43 AM)

Originally Posted by Slater

In the books the only Great familes that actually has a bunch of cousins are the Lannisters and Tyrells.

The Starks being so few makes sense considering where they come from, but the othe great houses have no excuse for being so few.

Like, the Targ's lost around 10 or more members in a very short amount of time twice. And that would wipeout almost any other House in the series.

Yeah the Starks only have so few cousins because Robert's Rebellion claimed the lives of two of them and the third joined the NW.

Originally Posted by elrechazado

Everyone knows, that's why he's such a focus of attention and being fostered by other Noble houses. He is literally known.in the vale as "Harry the heir".

Monarchies and royal houses have things like this happen all throughout history.

Well, the way it was described in AFFC was convoluted.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
(08-13-2017, 04:43 AM)
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I remember for a while thinking Dany would kill Rickon in the books. Now I don't really think so, but still would be interesting none-the-less.
Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(08-13-2017, 04:44 AM)
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Starks have some cousins, only thing is their last names are Corbray, Waynwood, and Templeton and all through the Royce family.
jfkgoblue
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:45 AM)

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Starks have some cousins, only thing is their last names are Corbray, Waynwood, and Templeton and all through the Royce family.

The only first cousin the current Starks have is Robert Arryn. (and I guess Jon Snow)
The Artisan
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(08-13-2017, 04:47 AM)
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aren't the Karstarks distant cousins to the Starks also?

that bloodthirsty Karstark asshole says to King Robb "we are kin" before Robb kills him
Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(08-13-2017, 04:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

Well, the way it was described in AFFC was convoluted.

That's just because GRRM went through all of Harry's dead aunts and dead cousins before getting to him.

Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

The only first cousin the current Starks have is Robert Arryn. (and I guess Jon Snow)

I said nothing about first cousins. ;)
elrechazado
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(08-13-2017, 04:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

Yeah the Starks only have so few cousins because Robert's Rebellion claimed the lives of two of them and the third joined the NW.

Well, the way it was described in AFFC was convoluted.

Convoluted how? LF explains to Sansa how Harry is related to Jon Arryn quite simply, then concludes that's he's the heir, all the while multiple characters are literally calling him Harry the Heir....
elrechazado
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(08-13-2017, 04:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

aren't the Karstarks distant cousins to the Starks also?

that bloodthirsty Karstark asshole says to King Robb "we are kin" before Robb kills him

Related like 400 yrs back via a younger stark son who established the karhold Stark's, which became karstarks, although probably some intermarriage since then, since they're a powerful stark vassal house.
jfkgoblue
Member
(08-13-2017, 04:51 AM)

Originally Posted by The Artisan

aren't the Karstarks distant cousins to the Starks also?

that bloodthirsty Karstark asshole says to King Robb "we are kin" before Robb kills him

They married fairly frequently until Rickard Stark's "southern aspirations", but that comment in paticular is most likely referring to Karstarks being an offshot of the main Stark line.
Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(08-13-2017, 04:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

aren't the Karstarks distant cousins to the Starks also?

that bloodthirsty Karstark asshole says to King Robb "we are kin" before Robb kills him

The Karstark family started a thousand years earlier. It's not like it was a recent thing.
The Artisan
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(08-13-2017, 04:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by elrechazado

Related like 400 yrs back via a younger stark son who established the karhold Stark's, which became karstarks, although probably some intermarriage since then, since they're a powerful stark vassal house.

Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

They married fairly frequently until Rickard Stark's "southern aspirations", but that comment in paticular is most likely referring to Karstarks being an offshot of the main Stark line.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The Karstark family started a thousand years earlier. It's not like it was a recent thing.

Okay so basically they are distant enough where the term 'cousin' isn't very accurate. As far as southern aspirations go, I'm gonna have to look at another map of Westeros but I'm guessing the North stays north for several hundred miles, I'm wondering how that became the case and it didn't break up into its own provinces like the south did
jfkgoblue
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(08-13-2017, 04:59 AM)

Originally Posted by The Artisan

Okay so basically they are distant enough where the term 'cousin' isn't very accurate. As far as southern aspirations go, I'm gonna have to look at another map of Westeros but I'm guessing the North stays north for several hundred miles, I'm wondering how that became the case and it didn't break up into its own provinces like the south did

The North is larger land wise then the other 6 kingdoms combined, and they are all under Stark rule because the Starks conquered it, they defeated the Barrow Kings a long time ago to take complete control of the North.
The Artisan
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(08-13-2017, 05:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

The North is larger land wise then the other 6 kingdoms combined, and they are all under Stark rule because the Starks conquered it, they defeated the Barrow Kings a long time ago to take complete control of the North.

Interesting. Is this something you find out reading the series or was it told in a World of ice and fire?
jfkgoblue
Member
(08-13-2017, 05:02 AM)

Originally Posted by The Artisan

Interesting. Is this something you find out reading the series or was it told in a World of ice and fire?

Any in depth history comes from AWIOAF
elrechazado
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(08-13-2017, 05:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

The North is larger land wise then the other 6 kingdoms combined, and they are all under Stark rule because the Starks conquered it, they defeated the Barrow Kings a long time ago to take complete control of the North.

Not correct actually - from awoiaf

It is often said that the North is as large as the other six kingdoms put together, but the truth is somewhat less grand: the North, as ruled today by House Stark of Winterfell, comprises little more than a third of the realm."
Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(08-13-2017, 05:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by jfkgoblue

The North is larger land wise then the other 6 kingdoms combined, and they are all under Stark rule because the Starks conquered it, they defeated the Barrow Kings a long time ago to take complete control of the North.

Don't forget the Great Other the Starks have chained up under the crypts of Winterfell gives them magical powers over every other house in the north.
elrechazado
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(08-13-2017, 05:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Don't forget the Great Other the Starks have chained up under the crypts of Winterfell gives them magical powers over every other house in the north.

He's chain by the leg to an ice dragon, and produces his power by playing bongo drums on the thousands of ice dragon eggs found in the crypt.
Bounceounce
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(08-13-2017, 05:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

I see. Well that's good, maybe Rickon ends up with a better ending in the books if he allies himself with Stannis.

Assuming Stannis doesn't have the same grim ending. Although, would Rickon want to ally with him if he learns that Stannis prayed for Robb's death?

That's good to hear...I was sad to see House Tyrell be gone in the show. Another reason to hate Cersei sure, but it just feels like the Tyrells were short lived on the show, even though they've been around since season 2.

With that being the case then I definitely think he's got a claim on being the heir to Lord of the Vale.
I agree with you there, but, I have to admit him being Petyr's son does make some sense.

If he is indeed Jon's son though I am hoping he gets a safe ending on the show. I don't want House Arryn to die if it's not dead already.

What are the most interesting book-only things that you've found out and what other questions do you have?
Speevy
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(08-13-2017, 05:40 AM)
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If Winds got released and a major character lived through the book who was already dead in the show, would you be disappointed or relieved?
Basileus777
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(08-13-2017, 05:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

If Winds got released and a major character lived through the book who was already dead in the show, would you be disappointed or relieved?

Disappointed because I won't get to read the death in the next books that will never be published.
Haly
One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
(08-13-2017, 06:05 AM)
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But no major characters are dying in the show.

Kappa
kswiston
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(08-13-2017, 06:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

If Winds got released and a major character lived through the book who was already dead in the show, would you be disappointed or relieved?

Who are you counting as major? Roose Bolton and Stannis?
DarkJediKnight
(08-13-2017, 06:53 AM)
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Guys, curious, what you think. Season 7 has been hinting at Valyrian blades (Olenna pointing out Widow's Wail, and then the dagger).

The fact that Golden Company was mentioned, makes me think we might see Blackfyre, since it was presumably last seen with the Golden Company.
Forkball
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(08-13-2017, 07:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by DarkJediKnight

Guys, curious, what you think. Season 7 has been hinting at Valyrian blades (Olenna pointing out Widow's Wail, and then the dagger).

The fact that Golden Company was mentioned, makes me think we might see Blackfyre, since it was presumably last seen with the Golden Company.

If Cersei hires the Golden Company, I doubt they will be anything more than jobbers to dragonfire. It's way too late to introduce the whole Blackfyre storyline considering there are maybe 10 or so episodes left and a whole lot of people need to have their storylines wrapped up/die. Maybe they do touch on the Blackfyre lineage though and they betray Cersei in favor of Dany.
duckroll
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(08-13-2017, 08:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

If Winds got released

Hahahahahahahahaha. Good joke! :)
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
(08-13-2017, 12:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by DarkJediKnight

Guys, curious, what you think. Season 7 has been hinting at Valyrian blades (Olenna pointing out Widow's Wail, and then the dagger).

The fact that Golden Company was mentioned, makes me think we might see Blackfyre, since it was presumably last seen with the Golden Company.

Way to late, Valyrian Blades being mentioned are a way to get every major sword away to defend against White Walkers.

Originally Posted by Forkball

If Cersei hires the Golden Company, I doubt they will be anything more than jobbers to dragonfire. It's way too late to introduce the whole Blackfyre storyline considering there are maybe 10 or so episodes left and a whole lot of people need to have their storylines wrapped up/die. Maybe they do touch on the Blackfyre lineage though and they betray Cersei in favor of Dany.

Nine Episodes, and after tonight 8. There's no simply no time to introduce it.
Jombie
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(08-13-2017, 01:04 PM)
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Has anyone ever talked at length about the difference in how the others / white walkers are perceived in the show vs the books? Characters routinely acknowledge them in the books and are given a figure of speech, whereas in the show they're the equivalent of the Loch Ness monster.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
(08-13-2017, 01:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jombie

Has anyone ever talked at length about the difference in how the others / white walkers are perceived in the show vs the books? Characters routinely acknowledge them in the books and are given a figure of speech, whereas in the show they're the equivalent of the Loch Ness monster.

Characters in the book are a lot easier to be dumbed down since you aren't really looking at or hearing them I suppose.

Imagine, this is a world where most people don't get the equivalent of a first grade education, its easy to read that they're all superstitious peasants. But actually seeing someone like that is a lot harder to swallow I bet, breaks the suspension of disbelief.
hydrophilic attack
(08-13-2017, 01:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

If Winds got released and a major character lived through the book who was already dead in the show, would you be disappointed or relieved?

happy because barristan is cool

and so are olenna, loras and doran
Ocarina_117
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(08-13-2017, 01:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

If Winds got released and a major character lived through the book who was already dead in the show, would you be disappointed or relieved?

Didn't George mention changing up a character arc in reaction to the show?

Could see it being Stannis with all the burning Shireen malarkey (or hoping so at least lol).
The Artisan
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(08-13-2017, 02:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bounceounce

What are the most interesting book-only things that you've found out and what other questions do you have?

the most interesting book-only thing would have to be that there's a 3rd Targaryen still alive. If that was in the show that would be vital and a big difference. I also heard that in the books, Pip & Grenn are still alive.

One other thing that I have wondered is Ramsay...I heard that he is even worse in the books although it can be argued that he's just as bad on the show they just can't show everything on screen. But, apparently Ramsay doesn't have his evil reputation on the show at first because he's a relatively unknown bastard. That's different in the books, in that Ramsay is rather infamous.

This comes up when Sansa confronts Petyr about how she was sold to the Boltons. Petyr apparently doesn't know about Ramsay but in the books he does and sells a wannabe Stark girl to Ramsay. This is weird though I mean, if Ramsay does the same despicable things on the show as in the books how is it that in one version of the story he is infamous and in the other he is unknown?
demosthenes
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(08-13-2017, 02:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

the most interesting book-only thing would have to be that there's a 3rd Targaryen still alive. If that was in the show that would be vital and a big difference. I also heard that in the books, Pip & Grenn are still alive.

One other thing that I have wondered is Ramsay...I heard that he is even worse in the books although it can be argued that he's just as bad on the show they just can't show everything on screen. But, apparently Ramsay doesn't have his evil reputation on the show at first because he's a relatively unknown bastard. That's different in the books, in that Ramsay is rather infamous.

This comes up when Sansa confronts Petyr about how she was sold to the Boltons. Petyr apparently doesn't know about Ramsay but in the books he does and sells a wannabe Stark girl to Ramsay. This is weird though I mean, if Ramsay does the same despicable things on the show as in the books how is it that in one version of the story he is infamous and in the other he is unknown?

He's definitely fake.
The Artisan
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(08-13-2017, 02:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by demosthenes

He's definitely fake.

fake as in bastard or imposter
demosthenes
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(08-13-2017, 02:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Artisan

fake as in bastard or imposter

He's going to be a Blackfyre.
Cornballer
foul temptress
(08-13-2017, 02:30 PM)
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New episode tonight:

Eastwatch

Daenerys demands loyalty from the surviving Lannister soldiers; Jon heeds Bran's warning about White Walkers on the move; Cersei vows to vanquish anyone or anything that stands in her way.

Daenerys makes an offer to the Lords of Westeros. Meanwhile, Tyrion worries about his Queenís behavior and decisions, and Bran has a vision of the Night Kingís army.

Those are the two loglines that Iíve seen (TV Guide & Sky Atlantic, respectively).
The Artisan
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(08-13-2017, 02:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by demosthenes

He's going to be a Blackfyre.

isn't that a bastard name for Targaryens?

Originally Posted by Cornballer

New episode tonight:Those are the two loglines that Iíve seen (TV Guide & Sky Atlantic, respectively).

i've been spoiled like a brat this season, now that it's almost over maybe I should try to hold some restraint...especially since tonight is the night.
Apt101
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(08-13-2017, 02:45 PM)
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Where are ya fucka

Chase17
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(08-13-2017, 02:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

If Winds got released and a major character lived through the book who was already dead in the show, would you be disappointed or relieved?

I could use ten more Hotah POV chapters.

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