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Hero_of_the_Day
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(08-13-2017, 06:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by jett

Femto is way more evil than Vader.

Vader could've had an amazing origin story that added some true depth to his character. But we got the prequels instead.

Wife and I just finished the prequels last night. I've said it on here before, but I think one of the biggest failings of the prequels is that we never see Anakin turn into Vader. He turns evil and puts on the suit, which was enough for Lucas. But, the Anakin we see last is still absolutely nothing like the calm, cool, and collected bad mother fucker we see in the OT.
Tricky I Shadow
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(08-13-2017, 06:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by PeskyToaster

All these anime and comic book dorks reveling in the presence of a true icon. even his random lines are more inscribed in pop culture than most other characters. I'd say only the joker is comparable.

Coolness isn't something you can establish over long arcs with things like motivations and power levels. It's conveyed in a single moment and that moment is Darth Vader stepping over dead bodies casually taking control of a ship. It's about the design combined with the moment. It's the same reason Boba Fett is cool. He looks fuckin sick and he gets a callout from Darth Vader. That's all you need. It's clearly difficult for nerds to understand cool, having never experienced it and why random comic and anime villains get suggested as answers, but regular people get it which is why Darth Vader is instantly recognizable around the world.

It's so, SO obvious you haven't read Berserk.
cdyhybrid
(08-13-2017, 06:37 AM)
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Vader is not the coolest because Aizen exists.

ErasureAcer
Member
(08-13-2017, 06:38 AM)
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Hooper's rant from Chasing Amy.

Vader is one of the worst.
AgentLampshade
Member
(08-13-2017, 06:45 AM)
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Now I know they won't do this, but I really REALLY hope they make Kylo Ren a completely unredeemable evil piece of shit in the new films. Just let him fall into darkness and make me want to hate him. He's kinda on this path after what he did in TFA, but I just know he'll be redeemed at the end.

On topic; Because knowing Vader's suit has buttons that serve no purpose other than to beep every now and then ruins the mystique.
MMarston
Was getting caught part of your plan?
(08-13-2017, 07:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tricky I Shadow

It's so, SO obvious you haven't read Berserk.

(Disclaimer: I'm secondhand familiar with Berserk ie. I've skimmed chapters, wikis, episodes, so feel free to strike me down for certain things)

While Femto is definitely an effective as hell villain, "coolness" kind of goes out the window the moment he and his minions basically gang rape a pregnant girl..

Villains like Vader, the Joker, Char are more attractive to most people not only because of their defining looks and iconography as described by Toaster, but because the way they dish out their cruelty is -- believe it or not -- very accessible and identifiable to many people.

Vader's badassery is attractive (NOT Anakin's) because he doesn't bullshit around and demands results. It's succeed or die. Join us or die. Get out of my way or die. He doesn't play games unless he deems it necessary, and even then it becomes a chore to him. In this case, it's not really about wanting to see what Vader does with that -- because it's incredibly straightforward -- but how others around him react to that.

Joker -- even for all the fucked up shit he does -- is attractive because he is continuously testing the hypocrisy of our societal/moral values and more importantly, tends to do so in the most spectacular ways, be it excessive theatricality or convolution. You always look forward to what he comes up with next.

Char is attractive because he wants a world many of us do and even puts in the honest to goodness work at some points to make sure of that, but in the end, he gets fed up with all of our flaws and starts acting in a way akin to someone like Vader. Combine that with an incredibly smooth/charismatic personality, and he becomes the epitome of the phrase "cool villain."

Femto, on the other hand and based on what I've known about him, isn't any of that and is basically just vengeful, self-centred, sadistic piece of shit. He ain't a guy you love to hate. He's a guy you just fucking hate with what he's done because for most people, there ain't nothing likable or admirable about any of that which is further topped off by his empty humanity post-Eclipse. He represents the absolute worst of us. He is not really cool at all -- just plain evil.

But that's what's brilliant: you don't have to give two shits about "coolness" when it comes to making a great villain, whether by mainstream definition or yours. For me, as long as the right pieces are in place in terms of character and narrative, a villain can be totally devoid of any relatability, admiration or sympathy on my behalf yet could still get my seal of approval.
Last edited by MMarston; 08-13-2017 at 07:20 AM.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
(08-13-2017, 07:24 AM)
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- prequels
- henchmen
- not that good at his job, took Ls

I never really loved Star Wars series (it's very good, just not a masterpiece for me). He was a great villain, but I don't even know if I put him at the top few of mine. He is top 2 with Joker with the most iconic, awesome looking designs though.

Originally Posted by PeskyToaster

All these anime and comic book dorks reveling in the presence of a true icon. even his random lines are more inscribed in pop culture than most other characters. I'd say only the joker is comparable.

Coolness isn't something you can establish over long arcs with things like motivations and power levels. It's conveyed in a single moment and that moment is Darth Vader stepping over dead bodies casually taking control of a ship. It's about the design combined with the moment. It's the same reason Boba Fett is cool. He looks fuckin sick and he gets a callout from Darth Vader. That's all you need. It's clearly difficult for nerds to understand cool, having never experienced it and why random comic and anime villains get suggested as answers, but regular people get it which is why Darth Vader is instantly recognizable around the world.

Bum-a-fett hype always makes me laugh. Star Wars nerds are the only people think that total bum is cool.
Last edited by LegendofDragoonLives; 08-13-2017 at 07:26 AM.
uncelestial
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(08-13-2017, 07:28 AM)
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There are three absolutely horrible movies that document precisely why Darth Vader isn't the coolest villain ever. There are more badass Evanescence lyrics than some of the shit that comes out of that dude's mouth. Then in the end he wussed out on even being a villain.

"You were right about me!"

I'm pretty into Evil Cooper in the new Twin Peaks. The Terminator in the first movie. Hannibal Lecter. Gus Fring. Hell, Frank N. Furter. These are all better choices and there are many, many more.
Last edited by uncelestial; 08-13-2017 at 07:32 AM.
Strangelove77
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(08-13-2017, 07:42 AM)
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Eww anime
DeathyBoy
A lot of loyalty for a hired gun!
(08-13-2017, 07:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by PeskyToaster

All these anime and comic book dorks reveling in the presence of a true icon. even his random lines are more inscribed in pop culture than most other characters. I'd say only the joker is comparable.

Coolness isn't something you can establish over long arcs with things like motivations and power levels. It's conveyed in a single moment and that moment is Darth Vader stepping over dead bodies casually taking control of a ship. It's about the design combined with the moment. It's the same reason Boba Fett is cool. He looks fuckin sick and he gets a callout from Darth Vader. That's all you need. It's clearly difficult for nerds to understand cool, having never experienced it and why random comic and anime villains get suggested as answers, but regular people get it which is why Darth Vader is instantly recognizable around the world.

This.

Vader is a pop culture icon. Even after the prequels. You'd never get a Hans Gruber film, Hannibal Lecter's name can't get a TV show past season 3 (awesome show, but yeah...), and whatever nerdy comic named Beserk y'all are namechecking isn't going to be a thing in forty years.
bitbydeath
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(08-13-2017, 07:56 AM)
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Freddy Krueger already has that title.



Edit: Ah beaten, same gif and everything
Last edited by bitbydeath; 08-13-2017 at 08:01 AM.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
(08-13-2017, 07:59 AM)
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Vader isn't even the best Disney owned villain.




Originally Posted by Proteus

And he has a whinny emo-grandson.

I love the whole pretender to the throne angle with Kylo. That they're not trying to make him another Vader is nice and makes him stand out as a good villain for me.
Last edited by DrForester; 08-13-2017 at 08:02 AM.
Tricky I Shadow
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(08-13-2017, 08:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by DeathyBoy

This.

Vader is a pop culture icon. Even after the prequels. You'd never get a Hans Gruber film, Hannibal Lecter's name can't get a TV show past season 3 (awesome show, but yeah...), and whatever nerdy comic named Beserk y'all are namechecking isn't going to be a thing in forty years.

We're talking about coolest, not most iconic or popular. Read the thread and Berserk before spewing such nonsense.
DeathyBoy
A lot of loyalty for a hired gun!
(08-13-2017, 08:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tricky I Shadow

We're talking about coolest, not most iconic or popular. Read the thread and Berserk before spewing such nonsense.

Did you miss me quoting a poster who I agreed with re: Vader being the coolest? Like, he gave reasons for it and by quoting it I'm kinda going "yes, these reasons are why."

And I equate cool with iconic. I'm sorry I've never heard of Beserk, but I do assume that stuff that breaks through to the mainstream is emprically cooler than stuff I've never heard of. Especially if said stuff is a comic book that, prior to today, I didn't know even existed.
norinrad
Member
(08-13-2017, 08:18 AM)
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He's the only reason why I felt in love with star wars. When he's not there I don't enjoy it as much.

The power, the menace, the anguish, the tragic of his life and he even has his own theme when he shows up. How can anyone not love Vader?
Last edited by norinrad; 08-13-2017 at 08:21 AM.
MooseKnuckles
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(08-13-2017, 08:20 AM)
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Rogue One really messed up by showing Vader earlier in the movie for that pointless scene on planet lava and having him deliver that goofy pun about 'choking on your ambition'. It would have been so much more effective to just have him show up in the finale, revealing him to the audience at the same time he appears to the group of rebels he obliterates.
Litan
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(08-13-2017, 08:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by DeathyBoy

Did you miss me quoting a poster who I agreed with re: Vader being the coolest? Like, he gave reasons for it and by quoting it I'm kinda going "yes, these reasons are why."

And I equate cool with iconic. I'm sorry I've never heard of Beserk, but I do assume that stuff that breaks through to the mainstream is emprically cooler than stuff I've never heard of. Especially if said stuff is a comic book that, prior to today, I didn't know even existed.

Berserk is a manga, and the rapist villain is in no way, shape or form "cool."
Mysterious
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(08-13-2017, 08:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by MooseKnuckles

Rogue One really messed up by showing Vader earlier in the movie for that pointless scene on planet lava and having him deliver that goofy pun about 'choking on your ambition'. It would have been so much more effective to just have him show up in the finale, revealing him to the audience at the same time he appears to the group of rebels he obliterates.

That scene was probably to establish Mustafar.
Fancyarcher
Member
(08-13-2017, 08:22 AM)

Originally Posted by Occam

Are the prequels still canon?

Yes. That's not likely changing either.
Apt101
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(08-13-2017, 08:24 AM)
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Sympathetic villains? Black Adam / Teth Adam from DC's 52. He's more layered. And at the same time, more forward.

Outright villains? Hannibal Lecter. I don't think an explanation is needed.
norinrad
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(08-13-2017, 08:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alexander DeLarge

Because the prequels ruined him. Rogue One redeemed him somewhat. Hope we get a standalone film where he goes full on slasher villain.

This. Rogue One did for Vader what Run-DMC did for Aerosmith.

I've watched it a few times and I'm always in awe when he shows up. It's been great to have seen him as we will likely never see him again. I can live with it. Rogue One was amazing.
Air Zombie Meat
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(08-13-2017, 08:35 AM)
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He wears a big plastic helmet.
Tricky I Shadow
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(08-13-2017, 08:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Litan

Berserk is a manga, and the rapist villain is in no way, shape or form "cool."

His appearance is the definition of cool.

Kthulhu
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(08-13-2017, 08:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by TI82



Because he's not Dio



Or kira

QFT
Monocle
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(08-13-2017, 09:00 AM)
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Vader is such an iconic villain that his downsides don't even detract from the character very much. The two major ones I can come up with are:

- Anakin in the prequels (he's immature and unconvincing in the movies, but the Clone Wars cartoon fixes his character and makes him worthy of being linked to Darth Vader)

- Character fatigue from some less than great appearances in various comics, books, and games (I will say that his role in Rogue One is really effective, besides some minor physical acting issues in his second scene. He's also exceptional in the Rebels series. The season 2 finale contains one of his greatest scenes yet.)

Vader is a damn good villain. Imposing, cool as hell, and even sympathetic.
Last edited by Monocle; 08-13-2017 at 09:04 AM.
Roders5
Iwata een bom zal droppen
(08-13-2017, 09:54 AM)
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OT Vader has one thing no other villain will ever match, his theme tune.
Spiritual_Chaos
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 09:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by bitbydeath

Freddy Krueger already has that title.



Edit: Ah beaten, same gif and everything

He started off as one of the greatest at least. But with part 4 and him putting on sunglasses it went a little bit downhill.

Spiritual_Chaos
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 10:03 AM)
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Also wanna give this guy a shout out. Almost wishes he was the villain in a different, fully serious, movie

Einchy
semen stains the mountaintops
(08-13-2017, 10:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Litan

Berserk is a manga, and the rapist villain is in no way, shape or form "cool."

Watcha talk in' bout, Willis? Him showing up again in that white armor with the whole world tripping over themselves to follow him was cool as fuck. Just because he's an evil POS doesn't make him not a cool mofo.
yamo
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(08-13-2017, 10:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mysterious

Even TROS's Darth Vader was kick-ass.

What is TROS? Baby don't hurt me!
Westbahnhof
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(08-13-2017, 10:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Einchy

Watcha talk in' bout, Willis? Him showing up again in that white armor with the whole world tripping over themselves to follow him was cool as fuck. Just because he's an evil POS doesn't make him not a cool mofo.

No, he is TOO evil.
Not like Vader, who slaughtered defenseless women and children. That's alright, he is cool.

Seriously, Griffith is just the better villain. Being less likable is a good thing.
Benzychenz
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(08-13-2017, 10:27 AM)
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Vader is some crippled old man, not even top 10 material.
Fbh
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(08-13-2017, 10:33 AM)
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One of my main issues with the original trilogy is that both Siths and Jedi are supposed to be these super powerful and almost superhero/villain like people.

But Vader just doesn't seem that threatening. With his stiff movement and slow sword fights the only reason it seem like he couldn't easily been taken out by like 5 Stormtroopers is because everyone is hilariously incompetent and has bad aiming.


My favorite scene from rouge one is the Vader scene not because "omg Vader" but because it actually makes him look like the threat and unstoppable Force he is supposed to be.
Sony
Nintendo
(08-13-2017, 10:34 AM)
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Goku is much cooler.
Star Wars and Vader suffer from the fact that there is more than just the original trilogy. The prequel movies and the EU are the two worst things which happened to Star Wars from a world building point of view.

Just look purely at A New Hope.

We got the powerless senate, which implied that the universe is at a late rome like/civil war state and not the later etablished pretty simple two side conflict.
Vader was the right hand of the imperator and was below the high military staff on the Death Star who made jokes about him and the forgotten Jedi religion.
No silly and simple Jedi vs. Sith conflict but Vader was a fallen dark jedi knight, with the implication that there was some conflict between him and Obi-Wan in the past.
etc...

Everything past A New Hope reduced everything to a simplified black & white conflict and turned Vader into a comic super villian.
Pyramid head
Renowned Richard Harrison scholar
(08-13-2017, 10:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by MMarston


While Vader is definitely an effective as hell villain, "coolness" kind of goes out the window the moment he murders a bunch of children. Twice..

FTFY.
StayDead
um wat
(08-13-2017, 10:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by RiggityRice

He flipped sides over a bitch.

Even his own homie was like yo what happen to you, you were the chosen one.

They say he was the one who was to bring balance to the force.

So he did. He killed all but 2 jedi so 2 sith and 2 jedi remained!
Tricky I Shadow
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(08-13-2017, 11:00 AM)
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I love how this thread has turned into a Vader VS Griffith thread. Griffith is the GOAT villian, bow down plebs!

BladeoftheImmortal
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 11:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by StayDead

They say he was the one who was to bring balance to the force.

So he did. He killed all but 2 jedi so 2 sith and 2 jedi remained!

The prophecy never said how he'd do it. 😎


seriously though. You guys shitting on berserk need to fucking read it before you spout bullshit.
UrbanRats
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(08-13-2017, 11:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by PeskyToaster

All these anime and comic book dorks reveling in the presence of a true icon. even his random lines are more inscribed in pop culture than most other characters. I'd say only the joker is comparable.

Why is a Star Wars fan, of all people, calling other people "dorks"? Speaking of dorks, Darth Vader may be a pop culture icon, but that's one of the reason why he looks so goofy nowadays.
When your face is plastered over cereal boxes, it kinda removes from the gravitas, you know?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
(08-13-2017, 11:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by The Kree

His costume is garbage.

He looks like a big giant black dildo.
Majukun
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(08-13-2017, 11:24 AM)
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not even close, in fact it looks kind of stupid.
Gaiaknight
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(08-13-2017, 11:43 AM)
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i love vader but he will always be second to Jason Voorhees
Qasiel
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(08-13-2017, 11:55 AM)
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Vader's a great character, arguably the best in Star Wars, but as a villain? Nah. Eps 1 - 6 was a brilliant redemption story about an altruistic young man's fall from grace and his last desperate act to save a son he barely knew. He's a badass, ruthless, sometimes fun guy but he makes for a terrible villain.

My vote for coolest villain? The Kurgan from Highlander. Guy was legit villainous. Took pleasure in killing people, single-minded in his pursuit of power and never showed mercy. Plus, Clancy Brown hamming it up was fantastic.
NutJobJim
(08-13-2017, 12:54 PM)
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Vader is easily my favourite personally and seemed incredibly cool as a child. The voice of James Earl Jones really helps (although I don't think his recent work sounds as good now that the actor is older and his voice is a bit different).

Also, the final scenes of Rogue One really sell Vader as one the most intimidating and threatening villains. Sure he was just a henchman at that point in the narrative but you wouldn't say that to his face lol.
potatomanbourke
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 01:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by ChimpBottle

Yeah, I guess he's gotta be the coo- Oh shit, what's that?

avengers23
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(08-13-2017, 01:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tricky I Shadow

Vader the coolest villain ever? What? He will always be a boring, lame villain to me. If you really want a cool villain, Femto from Berserk reigns supreme.

Thank you! It took this long for Femto to be mentioned.
DiamondDog74
Junior Member
(08-13-2017, 01:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Renna Hazel

Because he throws like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSMmnyJYrPM

Ah my home field.
Dr. Black Jack
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(08-13-2017, 02:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Savitar

Should have been the first post.
SuperEpicMan
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(08-13-2017, 02:31 PM)
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No love for Lucifer?


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