BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Hell yes. Wild Hunt is probably the best game ever made.
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CDPR on Cyberpunk 2077: "No hidden catch, no bullshit. We leave greed to others."
- Thread starter Peroroncino
- Start date
Shifty
Member
Look at that good PR right there.
It's easier to design a system to leech off your customers' disposable income than it is to spend years and years building a game of such high quality that it sells an equivalent amount on its own merits.
It's easier to design a system to leech off your customers' disposable income than it is to spend years and years building a game of such high quality that it sells an equivalent amount on its own merits.
Nikodemos
Member
Not easier. Faster.
Designing monetisation actually takes a good bit of a studio's creative ability. Which means that ability is no longer available (in that particular timeframe) for actual game design.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
Their message seems straight forward.
I hope the game can deliver on the atmosphere that the Google images pics seem to have, when I search for the game title.
I hope the game can deliver on the atmosphere that the Google images pics seem to have, when I search for the game title.
Terrible_Majesty
Member
Day One.
Rndom Grenadez
Member
You misspelled Nintendo
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Inuteu
Member
for kids until 12 years old, no doubt its nintendo
yes, but it seems a lot worse now
there is no need to point them, it's so clear. Thank you
IT
Hope the game will be good, the settings seems very fascinating
veterangamerUK
Member
Slow handclap
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So happy to read this.
Palabragrís
Member
I love those guys. They are not perfect, there are horror stories from some people who worked at CPR, but it's the only developer who treat their customers respectfully.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Palabragrís;253041212 said:
Those stories exist for every big game company. Discomfort promotes growth.
It takes real passion and sacrifice to make the level of game of W3. Masterpieces arent easy
From a consumer perspective they are as close to perfect as any dev I know
Is this a yes?
DarkestHour
Banned
Hoping this is on par or better with Witcher 3. Nothing better than games with worlds you can just disappear in.
Peroroncino
Member
Slight update:
This is the video they're referring to in the message: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpk32gnn-MY
This is the video they're referring to in the message: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpk32gnn-MY
daaaams CD project red has some A++ people doing PR, that shit was textbook example on how to talk to gamers.
dragonfart28
Banned
Way to set yourselves up for total backlash lol
Rndom Grenadez
Member
You cant be older than 12 with a comment like that.
Martinski43
Member
Cus money
nowheretorun
Member
Will pre-order and is something I never do!
Respect where it's due!
Respect where it's due!
IAmMadeOfBones
Neo Member
As long as it's done right I really don't have too much against "Games as a service". I understand the desire for companies to keep making money from games, especially if they have online aspects to it where they need to upkeep servers.
Pay to win is scummy and different. It kills the balance and thus kills the game. There has to be a middle ground where people wont throw their shit but also the companies making the games are happy.
Pay to win is scummy and different. It kills the balance and thus kills the game. There has to be a middle ground where people wont throw their shit but also the companies making the games are happy.
Taliban Stan
Member
To be fair, even if CDPR didn't exist we shouldn't buy piece of crap games.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
How many examples can you list of it being done right, though?
Soleil rouge
Member
On Twitter, they're always advertising positions to work on 2077. Seems a bit odd to be doing so much of it when the game's been in production for years now. Is this a common thing in game development? Makes me think that we won't be seeing gameplay trailers any time soon.
MadYarpen
Member
They are going into a new territory for them, with guns, city, flying vehicles - I think they need new blood in the studio because of that. They have been doing swords for more than 10 years now. And there can be rotation of employees anyway.
Memorabilia
Member
I've said it before, I'll say it a million more times... This is exactly why I always buy multiple copies of CDPR games on most/all of my platforms as well as gift their games to people. I've purchased TW3 on GOG, PS4 + all separate physical DLC packs (the GWENT card packs) + more recently the physical TW3 GOTY edition. I'm considering quad dipping on Xbone digital GOTY since it's $20 right now on XBL's BF sale.
These guys get it. And I'm more than happy to reward them many times over. As opposed to many other anti-consumer developers/publishers who I wait until the games are $10 or buy used. Fuck 'em. And long live CDPR. Can't wait for Cyberpunk!
Edit:
Exactly. Lol
These guys get it. And I'm more than happy to reward them many times over. As opposed to many other anti-consumer developers/publishers who I wait until the games are $10 or buy used. Fuck 'em. And long live CDPR. Can't wait for Cyberpunk!
Edit:
Exactly. Lol
OldBoyGamer
Banned
I don't have the unconditional love that a lot of people have for CDPR (which is just my view and nothing to do with them - they are obviously a top dev).
The Witcher games have never grabbed me as much as they have their army of fans and they really haven't impressed me with their workplace practices of enforcing heavy crunch to finish projects.
So, when I read them making high and mighty moralistic statements like this, I do go a bit 'mmmmm'.
I know that view is going to upset people because the love for W3 is off the scale, but hey. I've never been one to join in for the sake of it.
The Witcher games have never grabbed me as much as they have their army of fans and they really haven't impressed me with their workplace practices of enforcing heavy crunch to finish projects.
So, when I read them making high and mighty moralistic statements like this, I do go a bit 'mmmmm'.
I know that view is going to upset people because the love for W3 is off the scale, but hey. I've never been one to join in for the sake of it.
Helen Keller the Musical
Member
I trust them to follow through with this and of course that the game turn out awesome.
Simple Soul
Member
I get you, and that's coming from someone who does really like CDPR and TW series. Sometimes lately it feels to me that their emphasis on the good-guy reputation is almost a bit manipulative. As long as I get good quality for good prices, I'm glad, but I'm also skeptical regarding how long it'll last. The more a company grows, the harder it is to stay the same.
Memorabilia
Member
I dont think most people who love CDPR do so unconditionally at all, but rather do so precisely because of a combination of an objectively stellar track-record as game devs and as prosumer advocates. They've consistently been on the right side of just about every consumer gaming issue as far back as I can remember. And one gets the sense it's because that's how they really think, not because it's a PR stunt. No dev/publisher is perfect...but "work crunch" is a far cry from greed based RNG lootbox bullshit designed to exploit the same addictive pleasure center of the brain as gambling...no matter the cost to the game vision, design or longevity.
It's OK if their games don't appeal to you. But CDPR make GAMES. Not slot machines dressed up like games. This is why people like myself love them. They've demonstrated over the years they deserve that admiration. And with the industry going off the rails in search of new ways to fleece customers rather than produce good games, devs like CDPR are worth celebrating even if they aren't perfect.
OldBoyGamer
Banned
Well, as someone who works in the games industry and has worked crunch in the past, I see two sides of the same coin. Not sure how you can say they've been on the right side of consumer gaming issues when they've been called out for horrendous enforcement of crunch - or is that not a consumer issue? It's fine if you don't think it is, but then you're also saying child sweat shops aren't a consumer issue. I guess that's just a POV thing.
For me, it's just as important for a studio or publisher to give as much respect to its consumers as it is their employees. That goes beyond gaming IMO. I don't like to hear that Starbucks pays their barristers shit wages. I don't like to hear police officers being forced to work hard for no more money. I don't like to see shelf stackers at Waitrose being taken advantage of and I don't like to hear of game dev's being forced to work hard crunch because it's an issue very close to my heart. it's not acceptable IMO. At best, it shows a complete incompetence at management level. At worst, it shows bosses simply taking advantage of their workforce for their own greedy and ego driven needs.
I'm happy for CDPR to come out and say 'we don't like Loot boxes and we promise never to put them in our games'. That's great. Put your flag in the sand about a particular subject. But don't talk about greed when you've shown your greedy side by working your employees hard to earn money and boost your standing in the industry. For me, loot boxes and crunch are both things driven by greed.
Memorabilia
Member
Crunch is a work-place issue, not a consumer issue. It's only a consumer issue indirectly in that some gamers may care about the work conditions of companies from which they buy products while many/most others do not. You're conflating "crunch" with child sweat-shops to make your point now? Lol Come on, let's keep this discussion intellectually honest. I know quite a few people who've worked at intel, for example, and in general a lot of the people consider working conditions there to be half-jokingly akin to "white collar sweat-shops" for RCGs. But I also know not a single one of them would compare working at intel to actual child sweat-shops with a straight face. Having said that, I dont buy intel products because of the work stress imposed on a lot of their recent hires...so that should indicate to you where I stand on labor issues.
With all that said, if you only buy products from "ethically perfect" companies then you'll be running around naked, eating twigs and berries, making clothes out of fig leaves or tree bark, and lighting your adobe hut by striking rocks together. Lol That Walmart is the US's biggest employer is a national embarrassment, but some people still have to shop there while many more choose to. That doesn't make it right (and I also refuse to shop at Walmart by the way). But it's reality.
Now, coming full circle, in regards to the type of games CDPR creates and their long-standing policies on all sorts of consumer issues, my point stands. As I said, they aren't a perfect company. And maybe if enough people like you then get more people like me to help you call them out on the things they need to improve then they'll actually consider it. They're certainly far more likely to respond to customer concerns in a meaningful way than a giant multinational like EA. So, hey, we're really not that far apart on our views. It's just that when viewed through the prism of consumer/gamer purchases, CDPR is definitely one of the good guys. Not perfect. But better than most.
Edit:
I still remember CDPR employees mocking all the publishers who waste millions on expensive DRM schemes and purposefully releasing .isos of The Witcher 2 on bittorrent (one encrypted, one DRM free) to prove that it didn't negatively effect sales of GOOD games...that little test was actually pretty illuminating. Which most of the industry continued to ignore, of course. Lol
Like I said before, at least CDPR still make GAMES...not thinly veiled gambling mechanisms. And in the context of this discussion that's what matters most. We should hold their feet to the fire and get them to improve where they need to. But don't let "perfect" be the enemy of the good.
OldBoyGamer
Banned
Fair enough. No point arguing tbh because I pretty much agree with everything you've said - I'd just be arguing small nuanced differences.
The one thing I will say is that I have on occasion stayed away from companies with poor ethical practices - when and where I can. (Which I would have litttle argument against were you to accuse me of hypocracy).
Some examples:
I don't buy Nestle products as a direct result of their water policies in Africa.
I stopped shopping at Sports Direct after watching a TV documentary about how badly they treat their staff.
I still haven't played No Mans Sky because I really hated Sean Murray's attitude to crunch. (Despite it being £10 in sales really wanting to play it).
And I think CDPR games will be added to that list.
The problem is that you're 100% right in that, I don't really know if the maker of the trainers I now wear also have bad practices.
I guess I believe in doing small things when and where I can. None of those products above have missed my money. I'm a small person in a vast universe and I don't have the power to change it for others - I can only change it for myself in whatever small ways I can.
Thing is, I believe in redemption and if CDPR came out and said they were wrong to enforce crunch and they will change their policy to stop it? I'd be happy with that. Same with any of those companies above.
The one thing I will say is that I have on occasion stayed away from companies with poor ethical practices - when and where I can. (Which I would have litttle argument against were you to accuse me of hypocracy).
Some examples:
I don't buy Nestle products as a direct result of their water policies in Africa.
I stopped shopping at Sports Direct after watching a TV documentary about how badly they treat their staff.
I still haven't played No Mans Sky because I really hated Sean Murray's attitude to crunch. (Despite it being £10 in sales really wanting to play it).
And I think CDPR games will be added to that list.
The problem is that you're 100% right in that, I don't really know if the maker of the trainers I now wear also have bad practices.
I guess I believe in doing small things when and where I can. None of those products above have missed my money. I'm a small person in a vast universe and I don't have the power to change it for others - I can only change it for myself in whatever small ways I can.
Thing is, I believe in redemption and if CDPR came out and said they were wrong to enforce crunch and they will change their policy to stop it? I'd be happy with that. Same with any of those companies above.
Memorabilia
Member
Fair enough. I can't really disagree with any of that (and Nestle can get fucked...we should actually talk more about that for real). If you're in the states, Happy Turkey Day. Either way, tip of the hat to ya.
OldBoyGamer
Banned
Fair enough. I can't really disagree with any of that (and Nestle can get fucked...we should actually talk more about that for real). If you're in the states, Happy Turkey Day. Either way, tip of the hat to ya.
Thank you.
I'm in the UK, but wish you a happy Thanksgiving if you're in the States.