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Has Odyssey been the SM64 successor fans of the game have been waiting for?

entremet

entremet

Member
For the record, while I do love SM64, it's not my favorite 3D Mario. That would go to 3DWorld with Galaxy 2 second. I prefer more course based 3D Mario games over the open world structure of 64, Sunshine and now Odyssey.

But I respect SM64 and think it's one of the seminal games, up there with Doom, PacMan, The Legend of Zelda and so on.

SM64 fans have been starved for an open world Mario since Sunshine, which although a decent game, never hit the heights of the greatness of its prequel. Didn't even come close.

I recently beat Odyssey and am playing the postgame. It hasn't surpassed my previous mentioned favs, but it's damned good. Even though it's collectibles are numerous, it never feels tedious for me. The worlds have tons of secrets and it's fun searching out moons.

So for me, it is the SM64 successor I've been waiting for. My only gripes are that I wish there were more vertically centered worlds. Some of my favorite SM64 levels had strong vertically--Tick Tock Clock, Cool Cool Mountain, Whoomp's Fortress, and Tall, Tall Mountain being my favs from 64.

Has Odyssey been the SM64 successor fans of the game have been waiting for?
 
T

TheSpaceBetween

Member
Not at all. Odyssey is far too random and has tons of filler. 64 is much more tight, cohesive design. It's a good stepping stone... I trust Odyssey 2 would be a huge improvement, just like 3D World was a massive leap over Land.

Galaxy was kind of the other way around for me though... They knocked it out of the park on their first try where the sequel, while still good, kind of left something to be desired.
 
J

Jreede

Neo Member
goldenpp72 said:
It wasn't for me but, it was the Banjo successor I was waiting for and that's just as good in my book.
Click to expand...

Genuinely curious as to how is it a Banjo successor?

And please don't tell me your reasoning for it being a Banjo successor is that the game doesn't kick you out/restart the level when you get a moon. That's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard and absolutely not what gave the Banjo games their identity.
 
1

120v

Member
i always thought Galaxy was a perfect evolution of the 64 formula. never particularly cared for a more "open" 3D mario as the games are about platforming and collecting doodads, i don't feel sandboxes particularly service that

but i've yet to play odyssey. may change my mind
 
Koala Driving a Ferrari

Koala Driving a Ferrari

Member
It certainly wasn't for me, sadly. The art and level design in Odyssey is inconsistent and all over the place. It gave me the impression that it didn't have an over-all clear design directive and that separate teams handled different areas of the game. SMG1 and Super Mario 64 remain the best representations of 3D Mario games for my tastes. Man, I love those two games. I'm glad that lots of people are enjoying Odyssey though.
 
Spukc

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
No sm64 is better.
Odyssey has way to much bullshit moons.
Its like the spoiled kid that alway picks the biggest boxed gift out of sheer greed.

Sm64 is like a nice meal.
Not a mc d binge.
 
Refreshment.01

Refreshment.01

Member
entremet said:
For the record, while I do love SM64, it's not my favorite 3D Mario. That would go to 3DWorld with Galaxy 2 second. I prefer more course based 3D Mario games over the open world structure of 64, Sunshine and now Odyssey.

SM64 fans have been starved for an open world Mario since Sunshine, which although a decent game, never hit the heights of the greatness of its prequel. Didn't even come close.
Click to expand...

Mario 64, Sunshine and Odyssey are not Open World games or am i missing something?

On the contrary, something like Sunshine sports a rather linear progression. On the other hand Galaxy games tend to be labeled as linear when they do feature galaxies that work similary to levels in 64. As a disclaimer im not saying Galaxy is less "linear", what i want people to realize is that when they classify a game certain way they end up talking about different things:

There's 1) game progression and 2) level structures.

People tend to use 2) to put a hat on a specific game, yet they don't consider if what they consider "open" matters as much as they think in the end. It's a pretty long discussion to have.

So for me, it is the SM64 successor I've been waiting for. My only gripes are that I wish there were more vertically centered worlds. Some of my favorite SM64 levels had strong vertically--Tick Tock Clock, Cool Cool Mountain, Whoomp's Fortress, and Tall, Tall Mountain being my favs from 64.
Click to expand...
How many more levels with vertically in Odyssey would be enough?

We get Cascade, Sand, Lost, Wood, New Donk and Mount Volvano.

Then we get something like Seaside which is very varied with navigation types. Climbing, flying, swiming, runing.

goldenpp72 said:
It wasn't for me but, it was the Banjo successor I was waiting for and that's just as good in my book.
Click to expand...
Can the ladies and gentleman that share the "Banjo inspired" opinion take the time to actually explain or make a solid argument from where to base the assertion?

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=252948282
The comparison is backwards, Banjo takes from Mario 64 with the mantra "More & Bigger". More moves, powers, collectibles in bigger environments. However, it does have other priorities after all Rare stronger points were different from Nintendo internal teams. Btw, tags with "superficial comparison" i won't bother to adress.

In Banjo charatcers aren't take back outside the level because the environements are bigger and more stuff needs to be collected. In Mario games the character is take outside for various reasons: A new level setup or limitations related to development (storage space/Time). For example designers of 64 wanted to make the player traverse the level as much as possible.
...
i think explaining what Cappy is doing would be enough to make clear why the possesion mechanic isn't like Banjo transformations.

As i said in a previous post. Cappy at first glance to me seemed like a variation of Luma that also disguised the power up/costume system of past Mario games with a clever presentation trick. i also made the note that this perception could change eventually.

Cappy works as a jump modifier, projectile/physical attack (basically limited Luma functionality) and as an streamlining of the power up system.

As we see, Cappy solves multiple problems with a button. It also makes the Power Up system a bit more flexible as is less location dependent and give players a bit more of freedom with creative use. See bullet bills and the Squid creatures in Seaside
Click to expand...

i suggest to read the whole post and then rethink why or how exactly Odyssey would be a Banjo succesor. Yooka Layle is the game that fills that role.
 
J

Jreede

Neo Member
Refreshment.01 said:
Can the ladies and gentleman that share the "Banjo inspired" opinion take the time to actually explain or make a solid argument from where to base the assertion?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I would like to know this as well. There are some tenuous, superficial links that can be made between Odyssey and Banjo but no concrete argument that I have seen that makes Odyssey a "Banjo successor".
 
P

PumpkinPie

Banned
I've only had a brief play on the dinosaur and black and white levels, but the levels seemed small and claustrophobic compared to 64.
 
WaterAstro

WaterAstro

Member
Didn't play the game, but based off the trailer, Odyssey is not focused on the platforming.

SM64 is a pure platformer, and it was a really good one at that.
 
J

J4K

Member
WaterAstro said:
Didn't play the game, but based off the trailer, Odyssey is not focused on the platforming.
Click to expand...

Then why are you commenting here? It's unfathomable how many times this seems to happen here. "I watched five minutes of footage and now I'd like to share my opinion."

In answer to the question though, I'm not really sure. To me, I think if we go back and play Mario 64, it isn't quite as "Open World" as we all remember nostalgically.

In that sense, Odyssey is more Mario 64 than Mario 64 ever was, even if rose-tinted glasses kind of limit us from seeing it that way.
 
Neff

Neff

Member
It's the conceptual successor I've been waiting for and wanting, even if it doesn't actually quite succeed the original itself. There's tons of little homages and throwbacks to 64. It feels like a sequel and it knows it's one, while at the same time expanding its scope in terms of environment, goals and abilities. It's just an incredible package from start to finish, with none of the half-baked downtime which scuppered Sunshine out of the gate. I struggle to think of another game which is as complete. Best Switch game. GOTY, easily.

WaterAstro said:
Didn't play the game, but based off the trailer, Odyssey is not focused on the platforming.
Click to expand...

The trailers don't really show much platforming it's true, but there is a lot of it nonetheless. Odyssey absolutely satisfies my platforming appetite.
 
GametimeUK

GametimeUK

Member
It's definitely a solid evolution of the formula. I would have preferred more platforming specific challenges and for the stages to change based on what moon you're going for like Mario 64, but then again that would ruin the very meaning of Oddysey and I should enjoy the game for what it is rather than what it isn't. I think that's people's problem these days.

Oddysey isn't the Mario 64 style game I've wanted all these years, but it is 100% amazing for the first Oddysey style game in the series.

And that's my outlook on it.
 
N

NicknameMy

Neo Member
Actually, the hardest moons in Odyssey are nearly all based on plattforming (except for the challenges like jumprope).

The thing is Odyssey contains elements from everything for everyone. Every player can find the challanges he like most.

And I don't get why people critizise different artstyles. Isn't that the point of traveling a world with many different cultures?

Most subrooms, especially those unlocked after the final, are very good.
 
WaterAstro

WaterAstro

Member
J4K said:
Then why are you commenting here? It's unfathomable how many times this seems to happen here. "I watched five minutes of footage and now I'd like to share my opinion."

In answer to the question though, I'm not really sure. To me, I think if we go back and play Mario 64, it isn't quite as "Open World" as we all remember nostalgically.

In that sense, Odyssey is more Mario 64 than Mario 64 ever was, even if rose-tinted glasses kind of limit us from seeing it that way.
Click to expand...

Because I can comment as long as I put a disclaimer that I didn't play the game?

Neff said:
The trailers don't really show much platforming it's true, but there is a lot of it nonetheless. Odyssey absolutely satisfies my platforming appetite.
Click to expand...

If it does, then they made a bad trailer. I thought it was a pretty bad trailer when most people thought it was amazing. I didn't play Mario games to look at a montage of weird, quirky shots, so I don't have any interest in it.
 
goldenpp72

goldenpp72

Member
WaterAstro said:
Because I can comment as long as I put a disclaimer that I didn't play the game?



If it does, then they made a bad trailer. I thought it was a pretty bad trailer when most people thought it was amazing. I didn't play Mario games to look at a montage of weird, quirky shots, so I don't have any interest in it.
Click to expand...

You have no clue what you're talking about for a game that takes 20-50 hours to beat, there is a ton of platforming, so you're not enlightened no.
 
WaterAstro

WaterAstro

Member
Neff said:
Like you say, people went nuts over those trailers. So they're good trailers.
Click to expand...

Can't tell if they go nuts because they're fanboys or they're going nuts because the game looks like a good platforming game.

People went nuts for that absolute garbage Zelda trailer. I still have no idea why.

goldenpp72 said:
You have no clue what you're talking about for a game that takes 20-50 hours to beat, there is a ton of platforming, so you're not enlightened no.
Click to expand...

There's a ton of platforming, but there's a whole lot of other things from what they wanted me to see in that trailer. Taking control of tanks, enemies, riding around on a scooter, starting with some stupid t-rex opening. How can I think that it's a game that harkens back to the Mario 64 days?

Take away all those unnecessary clutter, then they might have a shot at being called the Mario 64 successor.
 
J

J4K

Member
WaterAstro said:
Because I can comment as long as I put a disclaimer that I didn't play the game?
Click to expand...

This isn't a question of capability. Clearly you can type words on a keyboard and hit submit. The question is should you comment. If the title was "what are your impressions of the trailers for Mario Odyssey" then your opinion would have weight.

This is a discussion of how Mario Odyssey compares to Mario 64 -- something you'd only really be able to intelligently comment on if you'd played at least a decent chunk of both games. Your credentials here are "I watched a trailer."

Go play the damn game.
 
Renna Hazel

Renna Hazel

Member
WaterAstro said:
Can't tell if they go nuts because they're fanboys or they're going nuts because the game looks like a good platforming game.

People went nuts for that absolute garbage Zelda trailer. I still have no idea why.



There's a ton of platforming, but there's a whole lot of other things from what they wanted me to see in that trailer. Taking control of tanks, enemies, riding around on a scooter, starting with some stupid t-rex opening. How can I think that it's a game that harkens back to the Mario 64 days?

Take away all those unnecessary clutter, then they might have a shot at being called the Mario 64 successor.
Click to expand...

Maybe they like the new mechanic and think it looks like fun? I know I did. Doesn't make me a fanboy.

Though you're clearly just trying to get a rise out of people.
 
JTCx

JTCx

Member
WaterAstro said:
People went nuts for that absolute garbage Zelda trailer. I still have no idea why.
Click to expand...

3c09d14adcdd6626599b630020298af374a0fd836295a829a62c17c45770fd64.jpg
 
B

Black_Red

Member
I actually prefer galaxy style games. But as their next "open world" 3D Mario it has a great pace. 555 moons on 25 hours means I always had something cool to do.
 
JRW

JRW

Member
Ancient Gray said:
Still prefer Galaxy 2.
Click to expand...

im still playing through Odyssey but one thing i'll confirm is Galaxy 2's soundtrack is definately superior IMO.

But i'm still having a blast playing Odyssey.

Speaking of the music, A nice touch I liked In Galaxy was when you're about to collect a star it plays this awesome theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWp1ZLciQBM or this variation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajcDSwiuW34

But in Odyssey there's no music change during this time, it's either silence or whichever music was already playing in the level.
 
jufonuk

jufonuk

not tag worthy
Well I am going to find out , I got a switch for my birthday with Mario odyssey 😀. Can not wait to try this out.

But first I need to finish playing Metroid on the 3DS
 
Astral Dog

Astral Dog

Member
TheSpaceBetween said:
Not at all. Odyssey is far too random and has tons of filler. 64 is much more tight, cohesive design. It's a good stepping stone... I trust Odyssey 2 would be a huge improvement, just like 3D World was a massive leap over Land.

Galaxy was kind of the other way around for me though... They knocked it out of the park on their first try where the sequel, while still good, kind of left something to be desired.
Click to expand...
I don't see how can you improve that much on Odyssey without changing mechanics , i expect a harder sequel, and more inventive cappy captures.

Plus 3D World was coming from 3DS to Wii U, its gonna be comparable to Super Mario Galaxy and Galaxy 2
 
R

Redmond Barry

Neo Member
I'd also like to hear some more elaboration on Odyssey being a Banjo spiritual successor. No skepticism or doubt here; I grew up on the Banjo games and I believe I prefer their emphasis on open-world exploration and "everything and the kitchen sink" gameplay over the no-nonsense, laser-guided focus on platforming of the linear 3D Marios. On a superficial level I know the obvious similarities (Capturing being akin to transforming, for instance) but not much else. I'm currently eyeing Odyssey but don't want to watch too much footage so I can keep the experience fresh if/when I do get it.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Redmond Barry said:
I'd also like to hear some more elaboration on Odyssey being a Banjo spiritual successor. No skepticism or doubt here; I grew up on the Banjo games and I believe I prefer their emphasis on open-world exploration and "everything and the kitchen sink" gameplay over the no-nonsense, laser-guided focus on platforming of the linear 3D Marios. On a superficial level I know the obvious similarities (Capturing being akin to transforming, for instance) but not much else. I'm currently eyeing Odyssey but don't want to watch too much footage so I can keep the experience fresh if/when I do get it.
Click to expand...

I always found Banjo's world to be very dense. Lots of little nooks and crannies and it rewards explorative play. I found Odyssey to have similar elements. SM64 stages were a bit too simple for that. Not a knock. It was the first 3D Mario. Sunshine's levels were mostly missing in this regard too, although the hub world was excellent and evoked that sensation.
 
TLZ

TLZ

Banned
I believe the real game really starts after completing story mode.

You play more difficult versions of the bosses and open up more worlds, and yoshi!
 
NikuNashi

NikuNashi

Member
Beautiful fun game but slight disappointment for me. Far too many moons, I would have preffered a condensed version with less than 200 moons all with a good deal of difficulty to achieve.

As it stands getting a moon doesn't have the sense of achievement that a star did in 64.


TLZ said:
I believe the real game really starts after completing story mode.

You play more difficult versions of the bosses and open up more worlds, and yoshi!
Click to expand...

True, the game started for real once I got to
The Mushroom Kingdom
.
 
V

VDenter

Banned
Since Sunshine exists Odyssey feels like the successor to Sunshine i have been waiting for instead of 64. Sunshine came close in terms of quality to 64. The controls and most of that games content were superb and like Odyssey and 64 it felt like a breath of fresh air for the Mario series.Galaxy and Galaxy 2 were kind of their own beast and while they took some frustrating steps back in terms of freedom and controls, they were incredibly polished and fun games.

The only crushingly disappointing 3D Mario for me was 3D World.Which felt like a by the numbers sequel to a superior 3DS game as you can get. The only difference was that it was the first mainline HD Mario game and it had huge shoes to fill but it failed and the one stand out thing about it was the multiplayer which unfortunately hurt the game more than it helped.
 
louis89

louis89

Member
No.

1. Not enough levels, and the trailers spoiled all of them anyway
2. No hub world
3. Levels aren't very well-designed or fun to explore
4. Too easy
5. Too many moons
6. Too short. FAR too few moons are required to get to the final boss. Like about a quarter of the total I think. Making the rest of the game feel empty.
7. Meh boss battles with rabbits with unappealing designs that are too easy and that you have to do over and over again
8. Many moons are gotten by just doing the same puzzle on different levels
9. Motion controls

64 is in a different league. 15 full, real worlds. The inventiveness of a water level where the level of the water depends on how you enter the level. A level with a tiny version and a big version. A castle to explore. 120 stars that are almost all actual challenges. Actual platforming challenge. All this in a time when nothing like this had ever been done in video games.

Odyssey is not a bad game. It is a good game, it's just nowhere near what I think most people expected it to be. It's about as good as Sunshine in my view.
 
Grinchy

Grinchy

Banned
I feel like Odyssey laid the groundwork for a really fantastic Odyssey 2. Now that the technical kinks are out of the way, they will be totally free to fully explore vast worlds with compelling moons/stars to go after. This game has a good deal of fluff.

I enjoyed Odyssey a lot, but I wouldn't say it's a perfect successor to M64. They still have yet to recapture that magic properly.
 
J

J4K

Member
louis89 said:
It's about as good as Sunshine in my view.
Click to expand...

Sunshine seems to be experiencing a renaissance over the last couple years in people's minds, like it's a sort of Majora's Mask of the mainline Marios.

Its controls are just so bad I struggle to understand this. Odyssey from the word go is so buttery smooth with its 60fps response that to me it's simply more fun to play in every way.
 
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