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ezodagrom · Jun 22, 2017

Kayant said:
OMG i agree with leeh on something �� �� ��.

I will just leave these posts from the horse's mouth to show what leeh is trying to put across -

This was from June 2015 -

This was from May 2016 -

Look at the source if you want more context for the questions asked.

I stand corrected, so crossparty is more complicated than I thought, though still not impossible either.

Some games such as Rocket League, fighters, racing games, I guess these are very unlikely to get crossparty features, though they can still benefit alot from crossplay matchmaking.
MMOs probably are the type of games that would benefit the most from crossparty, and usually these already have their own party and friends systems anyway (especially if they started as standalone/non-steam PC games).

EDIT: How does Street Fighter V handle it? Does it have some sort of friend system? Does it allow for Steam players to challenge PS4 players and the other way around? Or is the crossplay just matchmaking like Rocket League?
EDIT2: So SF5 does allow for crossplatform challenges, it has an ID system separate from the PS4 and Steam IDs, users can search for other players with the SF5 ID, add them to their favorites list and invite them for non-ranked matches or something.

Bolivar687 · Jun 22, 2017

It doesn't benefit anyone except board members in Redmond.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not foaming at the mouth for online communities that are harder to secure, tougher to police, and impossible for platform holders to invest in a quality experience for their users. I don't want my kid playing with DietRacist420 on Xbox Live anymore than BlindedByNostalgia on Switch (if they even have names and not friend codes). The network effect is real - Microsoft and Nintendo have smaller and less valuable networks because of their bad business decisions. Now they want Sony to harm it's own consumers to offset their years of systematic anti-consumer incompetence. I'm sorry but I drop sixty dollars a year on PlayStation Plus for the killer indies and sales, not for corporate welfare. Sony didn't force Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot in 2013 or to raise the gun to their forehead in 2017 and pull the trigger with Scorpio's pricing. Sony didn't force Nintendo to burn it's bridges with third parties, recycle the same three derivative games from the 80s, or to design another underpowered console, whose sales are about to fall off a cliff (again).

Kaz Hirai was appointed to represent the natives of Vita Island, not the Mushroom Kingdom.

ezodagrom · Jun 22, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It doesn't benefit anyone except board members in Redmond.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not foaming at the mouth for online communities that are harder to secure, tougher to police, and impossible for platform holders to invest in a quality experience for their users. I don't want my kid playing with DietRacist420 on Xbox Live anymore than BlindedByNostalgia on Switch (if they even have names and not friend codes). The network effect is real - Microsoft and Nintendo have smaller and less valuable networks because of their bad business decisions. Now they want Sony to harm it's own consumers to offset their years of systematic anti-consumer incompetence. I'm sorry but I drop sixty dollars a year on PlayStation Plus for the killer indies and sales, not for corporate welfare. Sony didn't force Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot in 2013 or to raise the gun to their forehead in 2017 and pull the trigger with Scorpio's pricing. Sony didn't force Nintendo to burn it's bridges with third parties, recycle the same three derivative games from the 80s, or to design another underpowered console, whose sales are about to fall off a cliff (again).

Kaz Hirai was appointed to represent the natives of Vita Island, not the Mushroom Kingdom.

Meanwhile Sony is okay with PC/PS4 crossplay, with PC being the least regulated platform of all. ¯\_(&#12484

_/¯

jonscrambler · Jun 22, 2017

when people say "in game chat" do you mean displaying the text on the gameplay screen? like BF1 on consoles you can press a button and use the wheel to select a pre select phrase like "I need medic" and it displays that text on the screen (or type whatever you want if you have a chatpad/keyboard). that can be done cross platform without using PSN/XBL APIs, correct me if I'm wrong.

that and emotes are all the "social" features I use

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Jun 22, 2017

Kayant said:
OMG i agree with leeh on something 😛 😁 👍.

I will just leave these posts from the horse's mouth to show what leeh is trying to put across -

This was from June 2015 -

This was from May 2016 -

Look at the source if you want more context for the questions asked.

Great post. Thanks.

Does sound pretty damning, but answers my previous question of why platform permission for cross-play has to come first for cross-play social features to even have a chance.

tiredheadcrab · Jun 22, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It doesn't benefit anyone except board members in Redmond.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not foaming at the mouth for online communities that are harder to secure, tougher to police, and impossible for platform holders to invest in a quality experience for their users. I don't want my kid playing with DietRacist420 on Xbox Live anymore than BlindedByNostalgia on Switch (if they even have names and not friend codes). The network effect is real - Microsoft and Nintendo have smaller and less valuable networks because of their bad business decisions. Now they want Sony to harm it's own consumers to offset their years of systematic anti-consumer incompetence. I'm sorry but I drop sixty dollars a year on PlayStation Plus for the killer indies and sales, not for corporate welfare. Sony didn't force Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot in 2013 or to raise the gun to their forehead in 2017 and pull the trigger with Scorpio's pricing. Sony didn't force Nintendo to burn it's bridges with third parties, recycle the same three derivative games from the 80s, or to design another underpowered console, whose sales are about to fall off a cliff (again).

Kaz Hirai was appointed to represent the natives of Vita Island, not the Mushroom Kingdom.

This is a joke post right?

I cant tell anymore.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Jun 22, 2017

tiredheadcrab said:
This is a joke post right?

I cant tell anymore.

Pretty sure it's a joke post

ezodagrom · Jun 22, 2017

aquamala said:
when people say "in game chat" do you mean displaying the text on the gameplay screen? like BF1 on consoles you can press a button and use the wheel to select a pre select phrase like "I need medic" and it displays that text on the screen (or type whatever you want if you have a chatpad/keyboard). that can be done cross platform without using PSN/XBL APIs, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, that can be done through crossplay, Rocket League's crossplay has in-game text chat too, with customizable text shortcuts on the d-pad.

Though for some text chat is not enough, voice chat is a must for them (though personally I find voice chat unnecessary and I always avoid it if possible, but to each their own).

leeh · Jun 22, 2017

BennyBlanco said:
Plenty of games have what you're describing and they didn't seem like huge efforts to implement. PUBG for instance.

Thats just on PC?

Trup1aya said:
Are we even talking about the same thing?

For the actual gamplay, they are speaking the same language.

But we are talking about unifying social features. As far as social features- those are handled through platform specific APIs. In order for social features to work across platforms, platform holders would need to allow 3rd party services to act as a liaison between the platforms. Once that functionality built in to Xbl/PSN/whatever, it would be up to individual developers to decide to use the functionality or not.

Yeah we are talking about the same thing. The statement of "allow 3rd party services as a liaison" is a drastic underestimation of what would be involved to support something like you said with true cross platform interaction

Kayant said:
OMG i agree with leeh on something 😛 😁 👍.

I will just leave these posts from the horse's mouth to show what leeh is trying to put across -

This was from June 2015 -

This was from May 2016 -

Look at the source if you want more context for the questions asked.

First time for everything 😉

Wasn't really opinionated though haha. More-so a high level architectural guess of how it is put together. Good to know I was on the money!

Good to read, he explained it in a great way. Guy is obviously good at what he does.

Blam · Jun 22, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It doesn't benefit anyone except board members in Redmond.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not foaming at the mouth for online communities that are harder to secure, tougher to police, and impossible for platform holders to invest in a quality experience for their users. I don't want my kid playing with DietRacist420 on Xbox Live anymore than BlindedByNostalgia on Switch (if they even have names and not friend codes). The network effect is real - Microsoft and Nintendo have smaller and less valuable networks because of their bad business decisions. Now they want Sony to harm it's own consumers to offset their years of systematic anti-consumer incompetence. I'm sorry but I drop sixty dollars a year on PlayStation Plus for the killer indies and sales, not for corporate welfare. Sony didn't force Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot in 2013 or to raise the gun to their forehead in 2017 and pull the trigger with Scorpio's pricing. Sony didn't force Nintendo to burn it's bridges with third parties, recycle the same three derivative games from the 80s, or to design another underpowered console, whose sales are about to fall off a cliff (again).

Kaz Hirai was appointed to represent the natives of Vita Island, not the Mushroom Kingdom.

Yeah this is a joke post can't be serious.

tiredheadcrab · Jun 22, 2017

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Pretty sure it's a joke post

Okay good. I mean between the guy with the frog avatar saying Sony needs a better deal to the Life guy in this thread(I think thats his username), its hard to tell anymore.

ezodagrom · Jun 22, 2017

leeh said:
First time for everything 😉

Wasn't really opinionated though haha. More-so a high level architectural guess of how it is put together. Good to know I was on the money!

Good to read, he explained it in a great way. Guy is obviously good at what he does.

I was wrong, but you weren't completely correct either. ^^;

It's not impossible to have cross-party, but it seems to be considerably harder than crossplay matchmaking.
Edited one of my posts with this example of cross-party, seems like Street Fighter 5 has its own ID system separate from PS4/Steam's IDs, players can search for SF5's IDs, favorite them, and invite them for non-ranked matches.

jonscrambler · Jun 22, 2017

btw when I played Portal 2 on PC with a friend on PS3 our voicechat worked fine

Trup1aya · Jun 22, 2017

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
How?

Why?

I don't see it. The reasons you've given aren't really convincing me of this.

I think at this stage it's better that we simply agree to disagree. However, I appreciate that you're obviously somewhat informed on the matter (you sound like a dev yourself?)

There's a post above with quotes from Psyonic that explains it very well. Withot knowing whether or not their efforts will be approved, it makes little sense for developers to spend the time and money develop such infrastructure. Beyond that there's no telling how to code to APIs that don't exist.

Without COMPLETE BUYIN, you have devs taking expensive shots in the dark. That's not economically feasible and their efforts are better spent elsewhere.

Trup1aya · Jun 22, 2017

leeh said:
Thats just on PC?

Yeah we are talking about the same thing. The statement of "allow 3rd party services as a liaison" is a drastic underestimation of what would be involved to support something like you said with true cross platform interaction

First time for everything 😉

Wasn't really opinionated though haha. More-so a high level architectural guess of how it is put together. Good to know I was on the money!

Good to read, he explained it in a great way. Guy is obviously good at what he does.

No it isn't. Would it be hard? Sure. That's software development for you. But if devs want to do it, they will. Several have expressed interest in doing it. Its an engineering problem that's is solvable so long as platform holders open their APIs to it.

Nearly Every single hurdle mentioned by Psyonic in this post could be alliviated by platform holders opening their network api's to allow 3rd parties to act as middle men.

gtj1092 · Jun 22, 2017

FX-GMC said:
Please tell me which advertised Minecraft PS4 features are missing from the game. What specifically did the Playstation store tell you would be in the game that isn't there? Nothing. You got what you paid for.

Couldn't this same argument be used for those claiming crossplay is owed to them. Sony never sold you PS plus on the promise of playing with switch and Xbox players.

Gestault · Jun 22, 2017

gtj1092 said:
Couldn't this same argument be used for those claiming crossplay is owed to them. Sony never sold you PS plus on the promise of playing with switch and Xbox players.

Developers wanting to be able to add features (and players being intersted in those features) that help their games has nothing to do with being owed anything, or a promise of something. I hope you can see how absurd this reasoning for a counter-point is.

Alucardx23 · Jun 22, 2017

gtj1092 said:
Couldn't this same argument be used for those claiming crossplay is owed to them. Sony never sold you PS plus on the promise of playing with switch and Xbox players.

I wound't use owed, but this is something that is convenient for YOU as a gamer. Microsoft, Nintendo, Android, iOS and I imagine most developers are on board with this. Let Sony be the one that comes with a counter argument for why this is not possible, besides the "For the kids" one.

Shpeshal Nick · Jun 22, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It doesn't benefit anyone except board members in Redmond.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not foaming at the mouth for online communities that are harder to secure, tougher to police, and impossible for platform holders to invest in a quality experience for their users. I don't want my kid playing with DietRacist420 on Xbox Live anymore than BlindedByNostalgia on Switch (if they even have names and not friend codes). The network effect is real - Microsoft and Nintendo have smaller and less valuable networks because of their bad business decisions. Now they want Sony to harm it's own consumers to offset their years of systematic anti-consumer incompetence. I'm sorry but I drop sixty dollars a year on PlayStation Plus for the killer indies and sales, not for corporate welfare. Sony didn't force Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot in 2013 or to raise the gun to their forehead in 2017 and pull the trigger with Scorpio's pricing. Sony didn't force Nintendo to burn it's bridges with third parties, recycle the same three derivative games from the 80s, or to design another underpowered console, whose sales are about to fall off a cliff (again).

Kaz Hirai was appointed to represent the natives of Vita Island, not the Mushroom Kingdom.

I'm not sure if this is someone attempting to start a meme or a serious post.

mcrommert · Jun 22, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It doesn't benefit anyone except board members in Redmond.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not foaming at the mouth for online communities that are harder to secure, tougher to police, and impossible for platform holders to invest in a quality experience for their users. I don't want my kid playing with DietRacist420 on Xbox Live anymore than BlindedByNostalgia on Switch (if they even have names and not friend codes). The network effect is real - Microsoft and Nintendo have smaller and less valuable networks because of their bad business decisions. Now they want Sony to harm it's own consumers to offset their years of systematic anti-consumer incompetence. I'm sorry but I drop sixty dollars a year on PlayStation Plus for the killer indies and sales, not for corporate welfare. Sony didn't force Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot in 2013 or to raise the gun to their forehead in 2017 and pull the trigger with Scorpio's pricing. Sony didn't force Nintendo to burn it's bridges with third parties, recycle the same three derivative games from the 80s, or to design another underpowered console, whose sales are about to fall off a cliff (again).

Kaz Hirai was appointed to represent the natives of Vita Island, not the Mushroom Kingdom.

10/10

Trace · Jun 22, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It doesn't benefit anyone except board members in Redmond.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not foaming at the mouth for online communities that are harder to secure, tougher to police, and impossible for platform holders to invest in a quality experience for their users. I don't want my kid playing with DietRacist420 on Xbox Live anymore than BlindedByNostalgia on Switch (if they even have names and not friend codes). The network effect is real - Microsoft and Nintendo have smaller and less valuable networks because of their bad business decisions. Now they want Sony to harm it's own consumers to offset their years of systematic anti-consumer incompetence. I'm sorry but I drop sixty dollars a year on PlayStation Plus for the killer indies and sales, not for corporate welfare. Sony didn't force Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot in 2013 or to raise the gun to their forehead in 2017 and pull the trigger with Scorpio's pricing. Sony didn't force Nintendo to burn it's bridges with third parties, recycle the same three derivative games from the 80s, or to design another underpowered console, whose sales are about to fall off a cliff (again).

Kaz Hirai was appointed to represent the natives of Vita Island, not the Mushroom Kingdom.

Fantastic post. It's not that often that I read something that could be completely sarcastic or over the hill fanboy.

Shpeshal Nick · Jun 22, 2017

The UPlay app currently lets you sign in to your Xbox Live and PSN accounts on the one app. Which means it's theoretically taking information from both.

Surely Rocket League (and other multiplats) could do the same? Have their own account system that allows the sign in of all 3 services where it draws the information and creates an all in one friend list within their 3rd party account? You can then send game invites directly from there. I get that voice chat would be out of the question (I assume), but at least game invites for private/custom matches are a great start.

FX-GMC · Jun 22, 2017

gtj1092 said:
Couldn't this same argument be used for those claiming crossplay is owed to them. Sony never sold you PS plus on the promise of playing with switch and Xbox players.

No, because you didn't understand the words you quoted and the context they were used in. Cross-Play doesn't need to be a feature of PS Plus to exist because limited cross-play is already available on PS Plus with PC. I mean unless i missed the part where they advertise the PS Plus subscription including support for PC cross-play*.

*on specific titles

GuitarAtomik · Jun 22, 2017

Collingwood said:
The UPlay app currently lets you sign in to your Xbox Live and PSN accounts on the one app. Which means it's theoretically taking information from both.

Surely Rocket League (and other multiplats) could do the same? Have their own account system that allows the sign in of all 3 services where it draws the information and creates an all in one friend list within their 3rd party account? You can then send game invites directly from there. I get that voice chat would be out of the question (I assume), but at least game invites for private/custom matches are a great start.

They don't, but mostly because that's a decently sized investment for an indie studio and one not worth making if you're not sure everyone's even on board.

Trup1aya · Jun 22, 2017

Collingwood said:
The UPlay app currently lets you sign in to your Xbox Live and PSN accounts on the one app. Which means it's theoretically taking information from both.

Surely Rocket League (and other multiplats) could do the same? Have their own account system that allows the sign in of all 3 services where it draws the information and creates an all in one friend list within their 3rd party account? You can then send game invites directly from there. I get that voice chat would be out of the question (I assume), but at least game invites for private/custom matches are a great start.

Yes this is all possible, and would be a great start. but it would take considerable investments from devs who won't do it unless the know platform holders would be ok with it.

The next step would be for Platform holders to adjust there API so that users can receive messages from 3rd party account services. This way players would be able to send messages across platform. For example, lets say I'm playing Far Cry on Xbox, but have Collingwood(PS4) as a friend on Uplay. I should be able to send you an invite from inside the game. The invite would first go to your Uplay account. Uplay would recognize that you are a PlayStation user an will then push you an invite to PSN.

It's really not much different from how I can invite an android friend to a mobile game from by iPhone.

Kal · Jun 22, 2017

Cross-play would be great but I'm surprised gamers aren't being more passionate about other things that I consider anti consumer. Frankly this doesn't really affect me as I only play few multiplayer games which all have a healthy player base and all my friends are on the same platform - however cross-play, if done right, can only enhance the experience and give much needed longevity to a lot of games. I do wonder though how much the lack of it really affects everyone right now, to me the having first party exclusives is far more anti consumer but I don't see anyone shouting from the hills about this. Why do I have to buy several consoles worth hundreds of pounds to be able to enjoy games I love? Why can't I play the new Super Mario Odyssey on a PS4? Or play The Last of Us II on the Xbox One X?

Liliana Eileen · Jun 22, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It doesn't benefit anyone except board members in Redmond.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not foaming at the mouth for online communities that are harder to secure, tougher to police, and impossible for platform holders to invest in a quality experience for their users. I don't want my kid playing with DietRacist420 on Xbox Live anymore than BlindedByNostalgia on Switch (if they even have names and not friend codes). The network effect is real - Microsoft and Nintendo have smaller and less valuable networks because of their bad business decisions. Now they want Sony to harm it's own consumers to offset their years of systematic anti-consumer incompetence. I'm sorry but I drop sixty dollars a year on PlayStation Plus for the killer indies and sales, not for corporate welfare. Sony didn't force Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot in 2013 or to raise the gun to their forehead in 2017 and pull the trigger with Scorpio's pricing. Sony didn't force Nintendo to burn it's bridges with third parties, recycle the same three derivative games from the 80s, or to design another underpowered console, whose sales are about to fall off a cliff (again).

Kaz Hirai was appointed to represent the natives of Vita Island, not the Mushroom Kingdom.

Fail attempt at a meme.

Kaydan · Jun 22, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It doesn't benefit anyone except board members in Redmond.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm not foaming at the mouth for online communities that are harder to secure, tougher to police, and impossible for platform holders to invest in a quality experience for their users. I don't want my kid playing with DietRacist420 on Xbox Live anymore than BlindedByNostalgia on Switch (if they even have names and not friend codes). The network effect is real - Microsoft and Nintendo have smaller and less valuable networks because of their bad business decisions. Now they want Sony to harm it's own consumers to offset their years of systematic anti-consumer incompetence. I'm sorry but I drop sixty dollars a year on PlayStation Plus for the killer indies and sales, not for corporate welfare. Sony didn't force Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot in 2013 or to raise the gun to their forehead in 2017 and pull the trigger with Scorpio's pricing. Sony didn't force Nintendo to burn it's bridges with third parties, recycle the same three derivative games from the 80s, or to design another underpowered console, whose sales are about to fall off a cliff (again).

Kaz Hirai was appointed to represent the natives of Vita Island, not the Mushroom Kingdom.

Funny guy.

Alucardx23 · Jun 22, 2017

Kal said:
Cross-play would be great but I'm surprised gamers aren't being more passionate about other things that I consider anti consumer. Frankly this doesn't really affect me as I only play few multiplayer games which all have a healthy player base and all my friends are on the same platform - however cross-play, if done right, can only enhance the experience and give much needed longevity to a lot of games. I do wonder though how much the lack of it really affects everyone right now, to me the having first party exclusives is far more anti consumer but I don't see anyone shouting from the hills about this. Why do I have to buy several consoles worth hundreds of pounds to be able to enjoy games I love? Why can't I play the new Super Mario Odyssey on a PS4? Or play The Last of Us II on the Xbox One X?

After crossplay, exclusive games are next, but that is a battle for another day.

GuitarAtomik · Jun 22, 2017

Kal said:
Cross-play would be great but I'm surprised gamers aren't being more passionate about other things that I consider anti consumer. Frankly this doesn't really affect me as I only play few multiplayer games which all have a healthy player base and all my friends are on the same platform - however cross-play, if done right, can only enhance the experience and give much needed longevity to a lot of games. I do wonder though how much the lack of it really affects everyone right now, to me the having first party exclusives is far more anti consumer but I don't see anyone shouting from the hills about this. Why do I have to buy several consoles worth hundreds of pounds to be able to enjoy games I love? Why can't I play the new Super Mario Odyssey on a PS4? Or play The Last of Us II on the Xbox One X?

Got to pick your battles. Not only is cross play a reasonable demand that, if made an industry standard, can only help everyone involved (even if you're on top now, that can change later), but the crack has been made in the wall with MS publicly declaring support and Nintendo officially being totally down. The one console future is a much bigger ask and not one we'll likely be able to demand any time soon (if ever).

michaelius · Jun 22, 2017

CookTrain said:
With it coming to Steam, hopefully Killer Instinct is the starting pistol to more fighters spreading the love.

But as yet, we don't even know if that version will have cross play, which is frustrating.

Well it will be nice test how much of this is usual Microsoft misleading marketing and deception because so far their own games which are on steam don't have crossplay.

Trup1aya · Jun 22, 2017

michaelius said:
Well it will be nice test how much of this is usual Microsoft misleading marketing and deception because so far their own games which are on steam don't have crossplay.

Which MP games do they have on steam?

Zen_Arcade · Jun 22, 2017

Alienous said:
I care, not because I'm cheerleading for Sony (I own all of the current-gen platforms) or against crossplay (it would be great), but because I'm not dealing in fantasy - companies don't act against their financial self-interests. That isn't how they are run. Unless you're advocating for a boycott of Sony hardware and software, something that would show up on their graphs, it doesn't matter how much you say "Aw, come on Sony, please".

And you're missing the point of my analogy - companies mandating no microtransactions would benefit consumers, much like crossplay. But banning microtransactions won't happen because it isn't a profitable decision - how great it would be doesn't factor into the equation. Microsoft stand to gain from crossplay - they aren't being charitable. Sony, it would seem, would be on the losing side of that deal.

I'm talking about Sony trading a competitive advantage for something that isn't one. A better environment for third-party developers is something that equally benefits their competition, ergo not something worth forfeiting part of your competitive advantage for.

This isn't totally true. There have been multiple times where all people did was complained a lot on social media and got companies to change their stances on things.

Alucardx23 · Jun 22, 2017

Zen_Arcade said:
This isn't totally true. There have been multiple times where all people did was complained a lot on social media and got companies to change their stances on things.

Xbox One was announced on 5/21/2013, they listened to the community feedback and made the changes by 6/19/17. Let's see how much time Sony takes.

XBOX 180: MICROSOFT FULLY REVERSES XBOX ONE'S DRM POLICIES:
https://www.wired.com/2013/06/xbox-one-drm/

"XBOX ONE WILL not require regular online check-ins or place restrictions on game-lending "as a result of feedback from the Xbox community," Microsoft announced today."

"Before today's announcement, things were looking bad for Microsoft. Scores of memes mocking the Xbox One were made. Public consumer polls put the PlayStation 4 ahead of the Xbox One by a wide margin. The Navy Times called the Xbox "a sin against all service members," arguing that the console's restrictive online policies were "a 'showstopper' for any service members who rely on their Xbox for off-duty diversions downrange, in the field, or at sea.""

Uno Venova · Jun 22, 2017

Alucardx23 said:
Xbox One was announced on 5/21/2013, they listened to the community feedback and made the changes by 6/19/17. Let's see how much time Sony takes.

XBOX 180: MICROSOFT FULLY REVERSES XBOX ONE'S DRM POLICIES:
https://www.wired.com/2013/06/xbox-one-drm/

"XBOX ONE WILL not require regular online check-ins or place restrictions on game-lending "as a result of feedback from the Xbox community," Microsoft announced today."

"Before today's announcement, things were looking bad for Microsoft. Scores of memes mocking the Xbox One were made. Public consumer polls put the PlayStation 4 ahead of the Xbox One by a wide margin. The Navy Times called the Xbox "a sin against all service members," arguing that the console's restrictive online policies were "a 'showstopper' for any service members who rely on their Xbox for off-duty diversions downrange, in the field, or at sea.""

I don't think that's a great example since that was based on pre order numbers.

VlaudTheImpaler · Jun 22, 2017

Alucardx23 said:
Scores of memes mocking the Xbox One were made

I remember it well. As a Xbox fanboy at that time and someone who didn't think he would have been directly effected since I have no data limits it hurt like a mofo from a console war point of view.* But it wasn't till a while later when I grew out of that childish crap that I realized that it was the right thing to do and it was better for consumers that the policy wasn't in place.

BTW, Just in case you or others haven't seen the thread, if you want PS4 crossplay and/or want to help crossplay become more standard so it benefits more people and devs then here are a few things you can do to help. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1392594

*(Which is why I understand the fanboys who mocked me for adding it as something to do to help in my thread)

Alucardx23 · Jun 22, 2017

Uno Venova said:
I don't think that's a great example since that was based on pre order numbers.

I'm sharing this link because I noticed some of us think that posting online and speaking loud and clear about want, will do nothing. Just like some do with Sony, you could have argued that it was a better business decision for Microsoft to stop or make it more difficult for users to resell/share games, so it was a waste of time to complain.

Marty Chinn · Jun 22, 2017

Alucardx23 said:
I'm sharing this link because I noticed some of us think that posting online and speaking loud and clear about want, will do nothing. Just like some do with Sony, you could have argued that it was a better business decision for Microsoft to stop or make it more difficult for users to resell/share games, so it was a waste of time to complain.

But in this case, people shouting didn't do it; they did it by speaking with their wallet by not preordering. If preorders were high, I don't think you would have seen the change.

Alucardx23 · Jun 22, 2017

Marty Chinn said:
But in this case, people shouting didn't do it; they did it by speaking with their wallet by not preordering. If preorders were high, I don't think you would have seen the change.

I do agree that if gamers don't make Sony understand that most of us want crossplay, nothing will happen. I'm just making it clear that we can change things.

VlaudTheImpaler · Jun 22, 2017

Marty Chinn said:
But in this case, people shouting didn't do it; they did it by speaking with their wallet by not preordering. If preorders were high, I don't think you would have seen the change.

lol. Most smart businesses don't want it to get to that point, or anywhere near it.

Which is the whole point of letting your voice be heard.

perfectsil · Jun 22, 2017

Marty Chinn said:
But in this case, people shouting didn't do it; they did it by speaking with their wallet by not preordering. If preorders were high, I don't think you would have seen the change.

Preorder numbers 5 months before launch is the reason for the reversal? not negative feedback from their community and social media? News to me

Three · Jun 22, 2017

Opus Angelorum said:
Then answer this. How does it negatively affect Sony?

The same way it would have negatively impacted XBL just a few years ago. It's unbelievable when you go back to the start of this gen and when it was MS blocking things like FF14:realm reborn because of CP, or the burnout situation and people saying MS doesn't want PSN connecting to XBL because it was hacked in 2011 etc. How it affects them negatively is simple, namely vendor lock in and all those people who were saying "but all my friends play on so-and-so console anyway so XY doesnt matter" fairly certain you were even one of them. Tell me if all your friends were on Playstation you wouldn't have bought a playstation intead of being left out?

Anybody who doesn't want crossplay and doesn't work for sony is a fool, but anybody who thinks there isn't a disadvantage in doing it for Sony, or MS have changed tune and would have done the same in the same situation is simply ignoring reality and the not so distant past. Also using the excuse of crossplay to block other unrelated things in an update is shady. Everyone else seems to be doing it just fine.

Ploid 3.0 · Jun 23, 2017

longdi said:
Not this xplay discussion again. Like i said, unless all platform holders agree to a unified console OS, half ass xplay is like taking potshots from the dark just because, why not.

Now that would be cool. Cross generation, cross platform, forever. That would make the phone analogy with Google android, and iphone more accurate. Post for context.

Current analogy would be something like Directv allowing people to use their box to watch channels from your comcast subscription or something. That unified gaming account would be pretty neat no matter what though. Steam, GOG, EA Origin, one account, all your games (still need to boot up the storefront for games with DRM).

Head.spawn · Jun 23, 2017

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Surely it's easy to see why in-game textchat isn't a good solution?

Imagine:
- I'm playing RL on my PS4 with my mate on PC. I want to coordinate with him for me to defend the left side and him to watch the right.
- goes into...

...Discord?
...Xbox App?
...Team Speak?
...Skype?
...Google Hangouts?

Easy to use voice chat systems, t's not really that complicated. Basic in-game communication presets can also help a bit.

Uno Venova · Jun 23, 2017

perfectsil said:
Preorder numbers 5 months before launch is the reason for the reversal? not negative feedback from their community and social media? News to me

I think so, that's actually tangible. Microsoft were getting negative feedback about the rumored used games system months before the reveal.

Kayant · Jun 23, 2017

Trup1aya said:
No it isn't. Would it be hard? Sure. That's software development for you. But if devs want to do it, they will. Several have expressed interest in doing it. Its an engineering problem that's is solvable so long as platform holders open their APIs to it.

Nearly Every single hurdle mentioned by Psyonic in this post could be alliviated by platform holders opening their network api's to allow 3rd parties to act as middle men.

And that's the thing what incentive is there for them to do it?

With crossplay because it's generic they don't lose anything and make MP experience potentially better for their ecosystem.

Enabling cross-play invites/chat/voice reduces the reliance on their system where the potential of someone that would have otherwise choose their ecosystem may rethink their purchase.

For Devs -

My naive view would be for cross party chat -

They would need a chat server to gather all platform chat them reformat it into something each platform can use.

If they want invite party system they would need an account system which would need to be maintained, another server to holder invites using their account system.

That is a big ask for most Devs expect people like EA that would already have things like an account system. No only that with security being a big issue these days I can see many Devs not wanting to deal with that.

Also Leeh mentioned before their is very little return for the Devs outside creating a better experience for players(Which valid but it depends on the cost). Cross play at the basic level provides them the most benefit that being their game community lasting longer.

Trup1aya · Jun 23, 2017

Kayant said:
And that's the thing what incentive is there for them to do it?

With crossplay because it's generic they don't lose anything and make MP experience potentially better for their ecosystem.

Enabling cross-play invites/chat/voice reduces the reliance on their system where the potential of someone that would have otherwise choose their ecosystem may rethink their purchase.

For Devs -

My naive view would be for cross party chat -

They would need a chat server to gather all platform chat them reformat it into something each platform can use.

If they want invite party system they would need an account system which would need to be maintained, another server to holder invites using their account system.

That is a big ask for most Devs expect people like EA that would already have things like an account system. No only that with security being a big issue these days I can see many Devs not wanting to deal with that.

Also Leeh mentioned before their is very little return for the Devs outside creating a better experience for players(Which valid but it depends on the cost). Cross play at the basic level provides them the most benefit that being their game community lasting longer.

The incentives are clear. The developer facing benefits of a user friendly cross platform solution, are extended life of games and increased customer satisfaction- which increases opportunities for monetization.

Beyond that,, the 'why' isn't any of our concern, several devs have expressed interest in doing it, so obviously they perceive benefits. What they don't have is reassurance and support from platform holders.

Once there is support at the platform API level, it would not be long before 3rd party middleware solutions sprung up to handle the dirty logistics you speak of.

Shpeshal Nick · Jun 23, 2017

Inuhanyou said:
I mean, those things are not really the same thing considering the crossplay situation right now is in line with other online control measures MS have introduced in the past like DRM, like segmenting their online market place from other PC markets, and windows ect.

Can we really consider Sony making an expensive game machine and getting rid of Linux the same thing?

People are rightly wary of Sony's online infrastructure now because of their history of hacks(from anything to individual customers accounts being hacked, to the huge hack years ago), i think that's more in line of what your saying. I also think people are rightly wary about Sony's support for non mainline console machines due to vita, vita TV, PSPGO, PSX, and other similar failures they have had that they have pulled without warning.

Well, I mean are they?

VR was pushed quite hard on GAF, to the point where Evilore created and stickied a thread beggging people to take it seriously or else.

I see tonnes of posts where people are coming to believe PSN is now at the very least "the equal of" Xbox Live so I'm not sure that hesitance is there anymore on a broader scale.

AmFreak said:
Yeah selling a >$800 device for $500-600 for sure is on the same level as shipping a rootkit on a Music-CD or Microsoft's huge and endless history of bullshit.

I'm aware they're not the same thing. My point was that Tim isnt holding a grudge against Sony for past sins like he is with Microsoft.

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