Support NeoGAF

duckroll · May 29, 2017

CyberConnect2 is great at flashy graphics and QTEs, not so much at anything else these days. It could be that originally Nomura intended on letting CC2 handle most of the day to day design decisions based on his notes, like how he makes all the KH games these days, but CC2 isn't delivering on what he expects.

Naoki Hamaguchi's involvement was already highlighted in the recruitment notice, where he talked about how he would be the development manager overseeing the management of the internal development staff. Mobius also didn't have a standard "director" role as far as they've made public, and his role was also 'Project Lead", a more management-centric role than a creative lead one. He was previously a lead programmer on all 3 FFXIII titles.

wmlk · May 29, 2017

CC2, time to get to working on Strelka Stories. pls

liquidtmd · May 29, 2017

We will be forming a robust system within the company to properly carry out the development.

Goddamn Square Enix.

You. Announced. The. Game. Two. Years. Ago.

Pooya · May 29, 2017

Tagg9 said:
Seriously? I assumed literally any external development would be better than Square-Enix's inefficient internal pipeline.

They just think too highly of their internal development. This project is guaranteed to choke too if FF15 is the best they can do internally with current gen.

Bebpo · May 29, 2017

DarkLordMalik said:
Tetsuya Nomura. Do you even doubt what you said when you hear his name?

What's weird is there are a ton of games he's headed that have had smooth development and turned out great. It's just Versus, and maybe KH3, and maybe FFVIIr...yeah he's had a bad decade

DMONKUMA · May 29, 2017

Sucks for CC2.

But of course Boruto.

KZXcellent · May 29, 2017

jett said:
It's literally been two years since it was announced.

Good fucking lord.

I made this thread based on information that was parodying an old FFXXIII Versus interview with Nomura, but it turned out to be completely true regardless LOL.

What is this shitshow. Shitcan Nomura. Good for nothing motherfucker.

How is this Nomura's fault? Sounds like CC2 couldn't produce good results so they're making the game internally now.

Nirolak · May 29, 2017

jett said:
It's literally been two years since it was announced.

Good fucking lord.

I made this thread based on information that was parodying an old FFXXIII Versus interview with Nomura, but it turned out to be completely true regardless LOL.

What is this shitshow. Shitcan Nomura. Good for nothing motherfucker.

I'm not under the impression that Nomura actually does "Game Direction" in the most literal sense anymore.

Everything he's on lately has co-directors who seem to handle all the day to day parts of actually running a project.

Well, I guess this game didn't, at least within Square Enix, but they do now.

Of course, Nomura can still steer it off a cliff by demanding things that are hard to do or continually changing his mind about what should be in the game...

Leafhopper · May 29, 2017

miladesn said:
They just think too highly of their internal development. This project is guaranteed to choke too if FF15 is the best they can do internally with current gen.

It's almost always Square's pride at this point that gets the better of them with some stuff.

Also in this case this doesn't sound to be the fault of Nomura.

cordy · May 29, 2017

I might be misunderstanding things but...why are people saying that this is going to further delay the game? If anything, I think this might speed things up.

Arzehn · May 29, 2017

Wonder what this means for FF16.

KarmaCow · May 29, 2017

Nomura really has the touch of death as a director, huh.

Kthulhu · May 29, 2017

liquidtmd said:
Goddamn Square Enix.

You. Announced. The. Game. Two. Years. Ago.

Welcome to AAA games in the 8th generation.

funkystudent · May 29, 2017

Part 1 isn't coming until after 2020 now isn't it?

DarkLordMalik · May 29, 2017

Any bets on when the director will change? I think end of year is more likely here.

kenta · May 29, 2017

I don't know how to view this positively... CC2 ships games regularly, and they are well received. Taking this away from them, coupled with SE's recent track record, does not inspire confidence

Spyder_Monkey · May 29, 2017

We could always wait and see how this plays out and not jump to conclusions... or not it's up to you.

Lunafreya Nox Fleuret · May 29, 2017

Arzehn said:
Wonder what this means for FF16.

FFXV did really well in sales. It'll probably get made.

Bebpo · May 29, 2017

duckroll said:
CyberConnect2 is great at flashy graphics and QTEs, not so much at anything else these days. It could be that originally Nomura intended on letting CC2 handle most of the day to day design decisions based on his notes, like how he makes all the KH games these days, but CC2 isn't delivering on what he expects.

Naoki Hamaguchi's involvement was already highlighted in the recruitment notice, where he talked about how he would be the development manager overseeing the management of the internal development staff. Mobius also didn't have a standard "director" role as far as they've made public, and his role was also 'Project Lead", a more management-centric role than a creative lead one. He was previously a lead programmer on all 3 FFXIII titles.

CC2 games have shallow gameplay but technically they're very solid and presentation-wise they're up with the best of them. But that's why Nomura was supposed to be designing the gameplay...

potatohead · May 29, 2017

ShockingAlberto said:
This sounds real bad for Cyberconnect 2.

Yep

LordOfLore · May 29, 2017

liquidtmd said:
Goddamn Square Enix.

You. Announced. The. Game. Two. Years. Ago.

BOTW was announced 4 years ago. They'll be fine.

Meowster · May 29, 2017

Is this necessarily bad news aside from the game potentially being delayed?

duckroll · May 29, 2017

KZXcellent said:
How is this Nomura's fault? Sounds like CC2 couldn't produce good results so they're making the game internally now.

Well there are only so many excuses you can make before it starts reflecting poorly on the person rather than circumstances.

- It's only because FFXIII was taking up all the resources! (Versus)
- It's only because Luminous Studio was too crap! (KH3)
- It's only because CC2 failed to deliver! (FFVIIr)

Or maybe it's because he took on projects which were larger in scope than he could manage and lost the plot. Who knows.

MartyStu · May 29, 2017

cordy said:
I might be misunderstanding things but...why are people saying that this is going to further delay the game? If anything, I think this might speed things up.

Because you can't take a project and COMPLETELY change its staff and expect it to continue humming along.

There is a long learning period.

And that is before we get into the course corrections needed.

And knowing SE, they may decide to start from scratch. Or something close to it.

wtd2009 · May 29, 2017

welp, here we go. gonna stop getting hyped and just enjoy the surprises as they come. thought it'd be different this time around, but based on what little info we've been given up to now and how vague they are whenever they talk about it, I'm just going to assume it's slogging along.

sucks it took two years to figure this one out.

wmlk · May 29, 2017

duckroll said:
CyberConnect2 is great at flashy graphics and QTEs, not so much at anything else these days. It could be that originally Nomura intended on letting CC2 handle most of the day to day design decisions based on his notes, like how he makes all the KH games these days, but CC2 isn't delivering on what he expects.

Naoki Hamaguchi's involvement was already highlighted in the recruitment notice, where he talked about how he would be the development manager overseeing the management of the internal development staff. Mobius also didn't have a standard "director" role as far as they've made public, and his role was also 'Project Lead", a more management-centric role than a creative lead one. He was previously a lead programmer on all 3 FFXIII titles.

What kind of development workflow do they have to make this call two years after active development? That's what's crazy to me right now.

KZXcellent said:
How is this Nomura's fault? Sounds like CC2 couldn't produce good results so they're making the game internally now.

A more technical director would understand the staff they're exporting the development to. A guy like Tabata is more hands-on in that regard. It's really apparent when you look at how differently Tabata and Nomura talk about the games they end up directing.

BlackBuzzard · May 29, 2017

Unfucking real.

jett · May 29, 2017

KZXcellent said:
How is this Nomura's fault? Sounds like CC2 couldn't produce good results so they're making the game internally now.

Yeah you just go ahead and keep shifting all blame from this dude's more than clearly incompetent managerial skills.

Frankly I'm going to give Nomura exactly no benefit of the doubt whatsoever at this point. Zero. I'm just going to assume CC2 is getting the short end of the stick here.

Nirolak said:
I'm not under the impression that Nomura actually does "Game Direction" in the most literal sense anymore.

Wverything he's on lately has co-directors who seem to handle all the day to day parts of actually running a project.

Well, I guess this game didn't, at least within Square Enix, but they do now.

Of course, Nomura can still steer it off a cliff by demanding things that are hard to do or continually changing his mind about what should be in the game...

What's even the point of Nomura?

Styles · May 29, 2017

So were they just modeling vases for the past two years?

Sir_Crocodile · May 29, 2017

Maybe they should hire mistwalker and get the gooch supervising it lol.

texhnolyze · May 29, 2017

Enjoy the hype, folks.

Bebpo · May 29, 2017

Meowster said:
Is this necessarily bad news aside from the game potentially being delayed?

Well, I wanted Asura's Wrath FFVII and so it's a little disappointing because it sounds like it won't have any of that CC2 flair (imagine the summons!) anymore.

iavi · May 29, 2017

kenta said:
I don't know how to view this positively... CC2 ships games regularly, and they are well received. Taking this away from them, coupled with SE's recent track record, does not inspire confidence

Yeah this doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever. SE is a clusterfuck when it comes to anything nowadays. It's a miracle Nier stayed on schedule and was as good as it is--then again Yoko Taro delivers his games pretty consistently.

DKHF · May 29, 2017

duckroll said:
CyberConnect2 is great at flashy graphics and QTEs, not so much at anything else these days. It could be that originally Nomura intended on letting CC2 handle most of the day to day design decisions based on his notes, like how he makes all the KH games these days, but CC2 isn't delivering on what he expects.

Naoki Hamaguchi's involvement was already highlighted in the recruitment notice, where he talked about how he would be the development manager overseeing the management of the internal development staff. Mobius also didn't have a standard "director" role as far as they've made public, and his role was also 'Project Lead", a more management-centric role than a creative lead one. He was previously a lead programmer on all 3 FFXIII titles.

Actually the Mobius director is Motomu Toriyama, he appeared in the stream this information came from. And is credited in the description of the video as such "鳥山求（メビウスFF、ディレクター）"

So the thread title is slightly inaccurate.

Slater · May 29, 2017

jett said:
What's even the point of Nomura?

He makes good trailers Jett, anybody who can keep there reputation for over a decade and give a character who never did jack shit a culty fanbase with nothing but CGI trailers is obviously an important asset

Geg · May 29, 2017

KZXcellent said:
How is this Nomura's fault? Sounds like CC2 couldn't produce good results so they're making the game internally now.

lol. There have been three games this past decade helmed by Nomura that have fallen into development hell. I'm sure there are multiple factors contributing to that but maybe it's time to consider the possibility that it's not just a coincidence

edit: Actually yeah maybe it's a bit too early to say the FF7 remake is in development hell but it's certainly not looking good

Harpuia · May 29, 2017

Huh. Why did they even partner with CC2 for this game? Given CC2's...well, lackluster track record you'd think that they would have gone in house the entire time. Unfortunate for CC2. Would've definitely have done them well if SE let them keep going.

Dude this game isn't going to be coming out anytime soon is it.

The Last One · May 29, 2017

KZXcellent said:
How is this Nomura's fault? Sounds like CC2 couldn't produce good results so they're making the game internally now.

I like Nomura but c'mon now... It's fair to say we have no idea what happened, better than "CC 2 couldn't produce good results".

MartyStu · May 29, 2017

Slater said:
He makes good trailers Jett, anybody who can keep there reputation for over a decade and give a character who never did jack shit a culty fanbase with nothing but CGI trailers is obviously an important asset

You joke, but I think you are closer to the truth than you realize.

KZXcellent · May 29, 2017

duckroll said:
Well there are only so many excuses you can make before it starts reflecting poorly on the person rather than circumstances.

- It's only because FFXIII was taking up all the resources! (Versus)
- It's only because Luminous Studio was too crap! (KH3)
- It's only because CC2 failed to deliver! (FFVIIr)

Or maybe it's because he took on projects which were larger in scope than he could manage and lost the plot. Who knows.

Yeah I'm not gonna deny Versus XIII was a shitshow and KH3 may be in trouble. Depends how much they show of KH3 this year as to how it's actually doing.

With this it just looks like CC2 couldn't produce. If we see KH3 not delivering this year (with a trailer, world reveals, 2018 release window) then I'd agree with the people up in arms about Nomura.

The Last One said:
I like Nomura but c'mon now... It's fair to say we have no idea what happened, better than "CC 2 couldn't produce good results".

Going off the information we have right now that's what it looks like. It's a more reasonable explanation right now than "Uhhh, Nomura fucked up I think!"

DMONKUMA · May 29, 2017

Slater said:
He makes good trailers Jett, anybody who can keep there reputation for over a decade and give a character who never did jack shit a culty fanbase with nothing but CGI trailers is obviously an important asset

Might as well get Kojima if that's the case.

Love you Koji

_Nemo · May 29, 2017

Neonep said:
Ya'll remember that other thread recently that also sounded worrying and there were people that were real quick to defend Square Enix. Lol.... They all look real stupid.

It's an endless cycle. Those who've known SE for a long time see right through their bullshit ways, but then you have new people who haven't been exposed to their bullshit that come in to defend them.

duckroll · May 29, 2017

DKHF said:
Actually the Mobius director is Motomu Toriyama, he appeared in the stream this information came from. And is credited in the description of the video as such "鳥山求（メビウスFF、ディレクター）"

So the thread title is slightly inaccurate.

OMG FINALLY A CONFIRMATION! THANK YOU!

Bebpo said:
CC2 games have shallow gameplay but technically they're very solid and presentation-wise they're up with the best of them. But that's why Nomura was supposed to be designing the gameplay...

But that's not really how game development works. You don't have one guy designing all the gameplay and it just gets implemented perfectly. Especially when development occurs in a totally different location. You can have someone design core ideas, but they have to be implemented and iterated by game designers actually working in the development environment. There are so many factors to consider: how something is implemented, how it is presented to the player, the timing and balance of every element, etc. Nomura isn't the one doing all that. The development team is. Birth by Sleep is a responsive and fun game not just because Nomura came up with good ideas, but because the team working on it is able to convert that into a game experience which feels fun for the player.

TheGreatDirector · May 29, 2017

wmlk said:
What kind of development workflow do they have to make this call two years after active development? That's what's crazy to me right now.

I imagine there's intense pressure from above for episode 1 of the game to be released by at least next year. CC2's games, although having cool presentation, haven't even been as demanding as a game like this.

Mister Wolf · May 29, 2017

Spyder_Monkey said:
So what about Nomura?

Nomura is a Cg movie director.

Nirolak · May 29, 2017

duckroll said:
OMG FINALLY A CONFIRMATION! THANK YOU!

He sort of announced that at the Taipei gaming show as well where he said he was "in charge" of Mobius, but this is way more direct.

Kyoufu · May 29, 2017

What I want to know is why FFVII Remake wasn't developed in-house to begin with? It's their biggest game in years. A game of such importance being outsourced is weird to me.

Neonep · May 29, 2017

jett said:
It's literally been two years since it was announced.

Good fucking lord.

I made this thread based on information that was parodying an old FFXXIII Versus interview with Nomura, but it turned out to be completely true regardless LOL.

What is this shitshow. Shitcan Nomura. Good for nothing motherfucker.

Wasn't this game announced the same day as Horizon?

NoctisVsStar · May 29, 2017

DMONKUMA said:
Might as well get Kojima if that's the case.

Kojima actually releases games

DMONKUMA · May 29, 2017

Kyoufu said:
What I want to know is why FFVII Remake wasn't developed in-house to begin with? It's their biggest game in years. A game of such importance being outsourced is weird to me.

I thought it was a collaboration where they had both an equal number of Square and CC2 devs teams working on it?

Support NeoGAF

Final Fantasy VII Remake shifts to internal dev under Mobius project leader

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Junior Member

Member

Mrgrgr

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Has no PEINS

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

D-Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Junior Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Mrgrgr

Member

Member

Member

Junior Member

Similar threads