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XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 06:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo

I wonder - does the number designation indicate the false memories that the YoRHa unit was installed with? So both A2 and 2B were based on Kaine?

That would certainly cast 2B's unflinching desire to protect a young white haired boy in a different light.

They sure don't cuss much if they're based on Kaine.
RyougaSaotome
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(03-02-2017, 06:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo


That would certainly cast 2B's unflinching desire to protect a young white haired boy in a different light.

Oh, WOW. I never even considered that as a possibility.
Jiraiza
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(03-02-2017, 06:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by CorgiSmiles

Ending Y or the fight at least also has Emil referring to A2/2B as Kainé in the end too.



I don't think that's ever really explained besides Pod 042 hinting that it was something that would do harm to her.

Is he referring to A2? I assumed his memories were just rushing back and he started calling out their names in desperation. It didn't sound like he was talking to A2/2B specifically.

On another note, the machines are all actually Emil clones right? That's what I've been reading.
XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 06:45 AM)
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By the way, less important than the real story meat, but how do folks feel about 2B/9S's relationship vis a vis 2B/6O and 9S/21O? 21O clearly had repressed feelings for 9S and Adam taunts 9S by remarking that it's obvious he's thinking about wanting to bang 2B, but I personally feel like the Adam/Eve and Devola/Popola devoted sibling relationships are meant to be parallels for 2B and 9S.

Originally Posted by Jiraiza

Is he referring to A2? I assumed his memories were just rushing back and he started calling out their names in desperation. It didn't sound like he was talking to A2/2B specifically.

On another note, the machines are all actually Emil clones right? That's what I've been reading.

I don't think so because Emil split himself up to fight the aliens and their machine army. That would explain why they look kinda similar though, so maybe I'm missing something.
Last edited by XANDER CAGE; 03-02-2017 at 06:47 AM.
Nya
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(03-02-2017, 06:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE

By the way, less important than the real story meat, but how do folks feel about 2B/9S's relationship vis a vis 2B/6O and 9S/21O? 21O clearly had repressed feelings for 9S and Adam taunts 9S by remarking that it's obvious he's thinking about wanting to bang 2B, but I personally feel like the Adam/Eve and Devola/Popola devoted sibling relationships are meant to be parallels for 2B and 9S.

.

Did she? I thought she loved him more like as a family member, since she was yearning for that.

I do think that 9S loves 2B romantically, just not sure about 2B tbh.
KO Traveling Hobo
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(03-02-2017, 06:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jiraiza

Is he referring to A2? I assumed his memories were just rushing back and he started calling out their names in desperation. It didn't sound like he was talking to A2/2B specifically.

On another note, the machines are all actually Emil clones right? That's what I've been reading.

I've heard people say that the cores of the machines are Emil heads, but I don't know if that's based on anything substantial or if it's just because of the scene where Emil pops out of a machine head.

Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE

By the way, less important than the real story meat, but how do folks feel about 2B/9S's relationship vis a vis 2B/6O and 9S/21O? 21O clearly had repressed feelings for 9S and Adam taunts 9S by remarking that it's obvious he's thinking about wanting to bang 2B, but I personally feel like the Adam/Eve and Devola/Popola devoted sibling relationships are meant to be parallels for 2B and 9S.

21O's feelings seem to be more maternal. 9S' equivalent of the Desert Rose subquest involves him introducing 210 to the concept of "family", and then at the start of route C/D she suddenly starts treating him like a child in an awkward, seemingly imitative way.

Also, the way 2B strangling 9S was shot was almost comically suggestive.
Last edited by KO Traveling Hobo; 03-02-2017 at 06:53 AM.
Jiraiza
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(03-02-2017, 06:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE

By the way, less important than the real story meat, but how do folks feel about 2B/9S's relationship vis a vis 2B/6O and 9S/21O? 21O clearly had repressed feelings for 9S and Adam taunts 9S by remarking that it's obvious he's thinking about wanting to bang 2B, but I personally feel like the Adam/Eve and Devola/Popola devoted sibling relationships are meant to be parallels for 2B and 9S.

Definitely romantic from 9S' side. A bit more unclear on 2B though it's pretty clear she loves him quite a bit. Can't ignore that final message of hers to him.

Romantic or not, 9S and 2B are my gaming OTP of the year.
Last edited by Jiraiza; 03-02-2017 at 06:57 AM.
XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 06:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nya

Did she? I thought she loved him more like as a family member, since she was yearning for that.

I do think that 9S loves 2B romantically, just not sure about 2B tbh.

Yeah, that's a good point - she does mention "like family" specifically in her fight. However, she also skirts away from 9S any time he attempts to flirt with her over comms, which kinda makes me wonder if the feelings were there but she didn't want to get involved, knowing what scanner units are destined to have happen over and over.

9S kinda seems like he has a crush on every other character in the game really, like he's desperate for contact of any form period. I definitely get more of a protective sibling vibe from 2B towards 9S though. Mostly because the conversation between 2B and 6O after her side quest is so much different from anything that happens between 2B and 9S, even in 2B's more open emotional moments with him.

It's genius/heartbreaking how they turn what is originally a fun series of gag moments ("my friends call me nines, so..." "I'm good." and "roger that, nine.....szzzz") into such a gut punch at the end of 2B's story.

Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo

21O's feelings seem to be more maternal. 9S' equivalent of the Desert Rose subquest involves him introducing 210 to the concept of "family", and then at the start of route C/D she suddenly starts treating him like a child in an awkward, seemingly imitative way.

Also, the way 2B strangling 9S was shot was almost comically suggestive.

OH MY GOD, I compleeeetely missed the connection between her sidequest with the "family" discovery and the scene where she treats 9S like a child. Holy shit.
Nya
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(03-02-2017, 06:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jiraiza

Definitely romantic from 9S' side. A bit more unclear on 2B though it's pretty clear she loves him quite a bit. Can't ignore that final message of hers to him.

I really need to replay that part and hear that message q_q

Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE


9S kinda seems like he has a crush on every other character in the game really, like he's desperate for contact of any form period. I definitely get more of a protective sibling vibe from 2B towards 9S though. Mostly because the conversation between 2B and 6O after her side quest is so much different from anything that happens between 2B and 9S, even in 2B's more open emotional moments with him.

It's genius/heartbreaking how they turn what is originally a fun series of gag moments ("my friends call me nines, so..." "I'm good." and "roger that, nine.....szzzz") into such a gut punch at the end of 2B's story.

Hmm I don't know about 2B and 6O, sure there might be some attraction from 6O's side but it doesn't convince me much (cause she jumped to 2B right after getting rejected >.>). It seemed to me like 2B was trying to cheer her up after being rejected by her crush, 2B obviously cares, but I don't think she has romantic feelings for 6O. On the other hand with 9S, 2B is constantly putting up a wall because she knows she's going to have to kill 9S again so she doesn't want to get emotionally attached, but even so, 2B warms up to 9S later on and actually accepts 9S date to shop together.

That or its just my 2B/9S ship talking, lol.
Last edited by Nya; 03-02-2017 at 07:08 AM.
KO Traveling Hobo
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(03-02-2017, 07:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE

OH MY GOD, I compleeeetely missed the connection between her sidequest with the "family" discovery and the scene where she treats 9S like a child. Holy shit.

This is almost definitely Taro's most densely packed story yet. It's so much to process.

And to reinforce the significance of how intimately 2B strangling 9S is shot, it's important to remember the "love scene" between Nier and Kaine. Kaine basically slapped the shit out of an emotionally devastated and traumatized man and threw him around the room.

The undertones of the 2B/6O relationship were also noticeable however. Also Sting has a song called Desert Rose. I don't know how deep Taro is into sappy British music, but those are certainly some lyrics.
Nya
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(03-02-2017, 07:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo

And to reinforce the significance of how intimately 2B strangling 9S is shot, it's important to remember the "love scene" between Nier and Kaine. Kaine basically slapped the shit out of an emotionally devastated and traumatized man and threw him around the room.

:(

That was the moment when I started shipping 2B and 9S, it was way too intimate to be considered an illustration of a siblings relationship. Taro has weird ways of expressing romance, but that's what I like about his writing.

Kaine/Nier fan too <3
XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 07:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo

This is almost definitely Taro's most densely packed story yet. It's so much to process.

And to reinforce the significance of how intimately 2B strangling 9S is shot, it's important to remember the "love scene" between Nier and Kaine. Kaine basically slapped the shit out of an emotionally devastated and traumatized man and threw him around the room.

The undertones of the 2B/6O relationship were also noticeable however. Also Sting has a song called Desert Rose. I don't know how deep Taro is into sappy British music, but those are certainly some lyrics.

Agreed on the way the strangling scene is shot; I could go either way on that though, just because the Yorha units are clearly designed to be hyper idealized "angels" of sorts, so pretty much anything they do is going to look intimate. The intensity of the scene could be reflective of their relationship, or the sexually charged imagery could just be "in the moment," so to speak.

The 2B/6O relationship just feels more textually romantic to me, I guess, because of the symbolism of flowers (the game even prods at this with Pod's observation that they are reproductive organs), the natural and open conversation they have after the sidequest, and the "thank you for the flowers" scene when the logic virus hits.

Really though, I think this is a case where we're probably both right, because it's not like characters can only have romantic feelings for one other character. Both the 6O and the 9S relationship are, if you'll forgive the pun, blossoming during the events of the game. There's no reason to think Yoko Taro couldn't have written a character who was starting to develop romantic feelings for more than one other character at a time; it's just that things go lopsided for 2B and everyone else before we get into boring love triangle territory.
Kafka
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(03-02-2017, 07:20 AM)
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Currently having fun in the Debug Room, it's fun experimenting with the combat and different enemy types.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Jst0tpyIY
Last edited by Kafka; 03-02-2017 at 07:22 AM.
Strings
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(03-02-2017, 07:20 AM)
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It's very, very difficult for me to look at the choking scene without thinking of End of Evangelion.
XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 07:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Strings

It's very, very difficult for me to look at the choking scene without thinking of End of Evangelion.

Heh, yeah. There's a lot of EoE in this game, it feels like.
Jiraiza
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(03-02-2017, 07:25 AM)
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My mind is blown.
XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 07:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jiraiza

My mind is blown.

Wow. Ok. Huh.
JayEH
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(03-02-2017, 07:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by LUCKY n WILD

Currently having fun in the Debug Room, it's fun experimenting with the combat and different enemy types.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Jst0tpyIY

How did you get the witch time?
KO Traveling Hobo
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(03-02-2017, 07:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nya

:(

That was the moment when I started shipping 2B and 9S, it was way too intimate to be considered an illustration of a siblings relationship. Taro has weird ways of expressing romance, but that's what I like about his writing.

Kaine/Nier fan too <3

If you think about it, there's honesty and even some beauty in how romantic love is consistently expressed through hurting the other person. It's very evocative of the Hedgehog's Dilemma, which is a metaphor for the inevitability of mutual pain found in intimacy, and how we must learn to not only mitigate but also tolerate that pain.

Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE

Agreed on the way the strangling scene is shot; I could go either way on that though, just because the Yorha units are clearly designed to be hyper idealized "angels" of sorts, so pretty much anything they do is going to look intimate. The intensity of the scene could be reflective of their relationship, or the sexually charged imagery could just be "in the moment," so to speak.

The 2B/6O relationship just feels more textually romantic to me, I guess, because of the symbolism of flowers (the game even prods at this with Pod's observation that they are reproductive organs), the natural and open conversation they have after the sidequest, and the "thank you for the flowers" scene when the logic virus hits.

Really though, I think this is a case where we're probably both right, because it's not like characters can only have romantic feelings for one other character. Both the 6O and the 9S relationship are, if you'll forgive the pun, blossoming during the events of the game. There's no reason to think Yoko Taro couldn't have written a character who was starting to develop romantic feelings for more than one other character at a time; it's just that things go lopsided for 2B and everyone else before we get into boring love triangle territory.

Agreed. Taro's stories are no strangers to complicated romance.

As an aside, that line about humans being obsessed with the reproductive organs of plants made me laugh out loud.

Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE

Heh, yeah. There's a lot of EoE in this game, it feels like.

You may already know this, but one of the original drafts for the final scene of EoE instead had a pale hand caressing Shinji's cheek as he lays on the barren beach...then the camera pans out and reveals it to be a severed arm that Shinji is clutching.
Last edited by KO Traveling Hobo; 03-02-2017 at 07:37 AM.
Zolbrod
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(03-02-2017, 07:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jiraiza

My mind is blown.

Now here's the real kicker: that final entry is dated 12423, and the game takes place in 11945...
Kafka
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(03-02-2017, 07:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by JayEH

How did you get the witch time?

It's a chip called Overclock. Devola and Popola sell unique chips, pretty sure they sell this one. Think you can also find it in some places.
KO Traveling Hobo
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(03-02-2017, 07:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zolbrod

Now here's the real kicker: that final entry is dated 12423, and the game takes place in 11945...

Holy shit. So there's our epilogue? The machines rebuild the network, and the war resumes?
Caim
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(03-02-2017, 07:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by JayEH

How did you get the witch time?

Overclock.

You can get it from Devola and Popola, and they also drop off the medium bipeds in the factory during the "Become as Gods" (I forget the name) chapter.

Caps at 5.5 seconds.
XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 07:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zolbrod

Now here's the real kicker: that final entry is dated 12423, and the game takes place in 11945...

Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo

Holy shit. So there's our epilogue? The machines rebuild the network, and the war resumes?

Looks like it; or at least an epilogue, you know how these games can go. Presumably 2B has a "complicated" look on her face because this is from a war where she retained her memories? Or maybe that's just how Emil always read her expression, hah.

This game, god.
Jiraiza
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(03-02-2017, 07:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE

Looks like it; or at least an epilogue, you know how these games can go. Presumably 2B has a "complicated" look on her face because this is from a war where she retained her memories? Or maybe that's just how Emil always read her expression, hah.

This game, god.

I guess the good news is 2B and presumably 9S are live and kicking in those 500 years. I hope they went shopping in that time.

I assume the complicated look is due to the Emil in 12423 not being the same Emil as the one she met in 11945. Though I guess that means the original Emil passing on is canon along with ending E?
JayEH
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(03-02-2017, 08:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by LUCKY n WILD

It's a chip called Overclock. Devola and Popola sell unique chips, pretty sure they sell this one. Think you can also find it in some places.

Originally Posted by Caim

Overclock.

You can get it from Devola and Popola, and they also drop off the medium bipeds in the factory during the "Become as Gods" (I forget the name) chapter.

Caps at 5.5 seconds.

Hmmm they don't have it when I checked. I guess I'll try farming them then. Thanks.
KO Traveling Hobo
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(03-02-2017, 08:08 AM)
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iirc, D&P sell a chip that slows down time when you get near a bullet.

Random enemies drop, and Emil (and maybe others) sells, the Overclock chip which slows down time when you successfully evade an attack.
JayEH
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(03-02-2017, 08:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo

iirc, D&P sell a chip that slows down time when you get near a bullet.

Random enemies drop, and Emil (and maybe others) sells, the Overclock chip which slows down time when you successfully evade an attack.

yep he had overclock thanks. turned out i had one already though haha.
XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 08:29 AM)
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There's also a toooon I want to say about this game's soundtrack, but for now I'll just say that the reuse of the theme from the red hood E unit quest as you're A2 running around inside dying 9S's mind is amazing.
Jiraiza
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(03-02-2017, 08:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE

There's also a toooon I want to say about this game's soundtrack, but for now I'll just say that the reuse of the theme from the red hood E unit quest as you're A2 running around inside dying 9S's mind is amazing.

Yep. Definitely going to order the OST as soon as it comes out.
Inuhanyou
Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
(03-02-2017, 08:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by XANDER CAGE

By the way, less important than the real story meat, but how do folks feel about 2B/9S's relationship vis a vis 2B/6O and 9S/21O? 21O clearly had repressed feelings for 9S and Adam taunts 9S by remarking that it's obvious he's thinking about wanting to bang 2B, but I personally feel like the Adam/Eve and Devola/Popola devoted sibling relationships are meant to be parallels for 2B and 9S.

I feel like 2B and 9S obviously love each other in that manner. Allusions to dates, the obsession with each other's well being, 9S's obvious affection. I think its clearly romantic in nature. Of course this is also my Shinji/Asuka side talking here

Now 21O is more complicated as a one sided thing, but its mostly to drive 9S further on his rage spree

Originally Posted by Jiraiza

My mind is blown.

:l now i don't know how to feel...

Of course we don't even know if 2B or 9S are actually still apart of the 'war effort' at this time considering they basically know everything that happens..did they go rogue with A2 i wonder?
Last edited by Inuhanyou; 03-02-2017 at 08:54 AM.
XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 09:18 AM)
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I'm generally not a fan of "and everyone was okay!" cop-out endings, but the execution of ending E is really something special. There's a really nice meta-narrative with the Pod conversations; you know that "you were hoping they'd survive, weren't you?" is aimed at the player just as much as the other Pod. The fact that you literally have to fight the creators of the game to save these characters that you've (or I did, anyway) come to love is both hilarious and touching. Coupled with the network shenanigans, it's going to be an unforgettable gaming moment for me.
Nya
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(03-02-2017, 09:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jiraiza

My mind is blown.

Oh my God, this game, seriously ... and to think Taro told us not to expect much of the story q_q

I wish we'd get a sequel to Automata, I feel like there are lots of unanswered questions and enough of an open ending to warrant a sequel.

I don't really want to say goodbye yet :(

Do you think there will be a DLC? If so, what do you think it's going to be about? Hope we get more info on who is pulling the strings behind that logic virus/back door plot.
Inuhanyou
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(03-02-2017, 09:21 AM)
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Maybe an A2 spinoff of what happend to her squad, aka retelling of the Yorha stage play, but i don't see anything big beyond maybe new costumes and such
JayEH
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(03-02-2017, 09:23 AM)
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I wonder if Taro would like to move on to something else now. Each game in the Drakengard series seems disconnected enough but it's still the same series.
Kafka
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(03-02-2017, 09:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Inuhanyou

Maybe an A2 spinoff of what happend to her squad, aka retelling of the Yorha stage play, but i don't see anything big beyond maybe new costumes and such

A2 was amazing. The moment you take control of her and use the dash button and you just keep moving is a great feeling after playing 2B and 9S! Plus her dialogue and attitude is bae.
XANDER CAGE
(03-02-2017, 09:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by JayEH

I wonder if Taro would like to move on to something else now. Each game in the Drakengard series seems disconnected enough but it's still the same series.

This feels pretty final, but so do most games in this series really. I could see him moving onto something entirely new (or at least something "new" still in the Drakenverse) and I get the feeling that if this sells/reviews well SE might want to keep Yoko Taro and his crew and Platinum together for another project. If they can! Not entirely sure how that business relationship works/worked.

Plus, and I don't mean this to sound cynical, but ending E leaves things open for these incredibly popular character designs to return.
GwyndolinCinder
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(03-02-2017, 09:49 AM)
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I don't think the operator relationships are less important at all 2B is going through almost the exact same thing as 210. Which explains 210 focus on the objective at all times.
Inuhanyou
Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
(03-02-2017, 11:16 AM)
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My question is how much 2B knew....if she knows about the plan and knows why she has to keep 9S quiet, does she know humanity was dead...in that case she must know the war is a farce...

i ask because throughout the story she questions the machines capability for logic with 9S explaining things away, but if she knew everything was a ruse from the beginning, it would probably have been better just not havin her comment on the robots if she knew with 9S being the one to question it and have her dismiss it
Caim
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(03-02-2017, 11:57 AM)
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Fought shop Emil again just so I could see his moveset and if you take too long to defeat him once the shop theme starts playing he charges up an attack that will definitely hit (and probably kill) since it covers the entire area while shooting endless Emil heads at you.

Also I like how the Heritage of the Past sidequest references Facade from the first Nier.
KO Traveling Hobo
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(03-02-2017, 01:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Caim

Fought shop Emil again just so I could see his moveset and if you take too long to defeat him once the shop theme starts playing he charges up an attack that will definitely hit (and probably kill) since it covers the entire area while shooting endless Emil heads at you.

Also I like how the Heritage of the Past sidequest references Facade from the first Nier.

You can also find a few tablets scattered around the desert zone that have rules etched onto them. Some of them are pretty funny.
TissueBox
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(03-02-2017, 02:25 PM)
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Damn still have to get a couple sidequests and an ending or two outta the way lol. Once through with those I'll dive headlong into this.
KO Traveling Hobo
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(03-02-2017, 07:31 PM)
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Another question: why were there three pods in the last cutscene?
Hektor
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(03-02-2017, 07:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo

Another question: why were there three pods in the last cutscene?

Three? It's been like 8 or so. I assume they belong to any of the Yorhas that died in route C
Kafka
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(03-02-2017, 07:44 PM)
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Trying to upgrade all my weapons fully so I can fight the super secret Emil boss. Do you get anything special when you beat him or is it just exist as a special battle/cinematic?
Jiraiza
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(03-02-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by LUCKY n WILD

Trying to upgrade all my weapons fully so I can fight the super secret Emil boss. Do you get anything special when you beat him or is it just exist as a special battle/cinematic?

You get a good dose of feels bad man.
Hektor
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(03-02-2017, 07:47 PM)
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Even if it's pointless. You still have to do it!
Kafka
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(03-02-2017, 07:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jiraiza

You get a good dose of feels bad man.

Haha, yeah I bet. Post game is amazing though for the simple fact of the Debug Room. So much fun to just come back and mess around with the beautiful combat.
KO Traveling Hobo
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(03-02-2017, 07:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hektor

Three? It's been like 8 or so. I assume they belong to any of the Yorhas that died in route C

There were two black pods, and one of them was carrying a seemingly damaged grey pod.

I wasn't sure if 042 transferred to a black pod and he was carrying his old shell, or if 153 was carrying an injured 042 and the other black pod was someone else.

So the whole pod network was in on it, and 042 and 153 were just the talking heads that represented all of them? Were the backup ships supposed to be other pods?

Sorry if these are dumb questions lol
Hektor
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(03-02-2017, 07:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo

There were two black pods, and one of them was carrying a seemingly damaged grey pod.

I wasn't sure if 042 transferred to a black pod and he was carrying his old shell, or if 153 was carrying an injured 042 and the other black pod was someone else.

So the whole pod network was in on it, and 042 and 153 were just the talking heads that represented all of them? Were the backup ships supposed to be other pods?

Sorry if these are dumb questions lol

The way i see it, all pods were in on it at the end because their own masters all died, leaving only 2B and 9S as their next logical commander, and thereby in extension their own specialised pods i.e. the two talking ones

That's my interpretation at least

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