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amiablepercy
Banned
(03-21-2017, 02:51 AM)

Originally Posted by excelsiorlef

Free speech is not relevant at all to this story frankly

It is. Some people on the side of those railing against JonTron through how they've expressed themselves seem to be saying Jon Tron has no right to say this stuff. He completely does. That's where the relevance is. It doesn't mean he's not wrong or an asshole.
A Link to the Past
Snitch
(03-21-2017, 02:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by amiablepercy

It is. Some people on the side of those railing against JonTron through how they've expressed themselves seem to be saying Jon Tron has no right to say this stuff. He completely does. That's where the relevance is.

Who is saying that?
Crimson_Echidna
Member
(03-21-2017, 02:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by amiablepercy

It is. Some people on the side of those railing against JonTron through how they've expressed themselves seem to be saying Jon Tron has no right to say this stuff. He completely does. That's where the relevance is. It doesn't mean he's not wrong or an asshole.

I'll let joe2187 take it from here:

Originally Posted by joe2187

It's not really moderate when they clearly only speak out on silencing one side while the other goes unchallenged by them.

Man A: Kill all Immigrants.

Moderate Man: .....

Man B: You're an asshole

Moderate Man: Whoa whoa! how dare you sir!? you have the gall to label a person a such simply because they speak their mind? maybe it is you who is the real asshole after all.

Man A: Fucking niggers.

Man B: ....and racist.

Moderate Man: Maybe you should listen to him instead of calling him a racist. Maybe he's coming from a different point of view that you just dont understand.

Man A: heil hitler....

Man B: ...

Moderate Man: See...much better. Now nobody is offended!

Last edited by Crimson_Echidna; 03-21-2017 at 02:57 AM.
excelsiorlef
Member
(03-21-2017, 02:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by amiablepercy

It is. Some people on the side of those railing against JonTron through how they've expressed themselves seem to be saying Jon Tron has no right to say this stuff. He completely does. That's where the relevance is. It doesn't mean he's not wrong or an asshole.

Of jesus... no come on...
danm999
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by amiablepercy

It is. Some people on the side of those railing against JonTron through how they've expressed themselves seem to be saying Jon Tron has no right to say this stuff. He completely does. That's where the relevance is. It doesn't mean he's not wrong or an asshole.

Who?
LionPride
Banned
(03-21-2017, 03:04 AM)

Originally Posted by amiablepercy

It is. Some people on the side of those railing against JonTron through how they've expressed themselves seem to be saying Jon Tron has no right to say this stuff. He completely does. That's where the relevance is. It doesn't mean he's not wrong or an asshole.

Where
Breads
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by amiablepercy

It is. Some people on the side of those railing against JonTron through how they've expressed themselves seem to be saying Jon Tron has no right to say this stuff. He completely does. That's where the relevance is. It doesn't mean he's not wrong or an asshole.

You might be relieved to know that this is not happening, his free speech is not in question, you are making these things up and these points have been summarily dismissed because this does not reflect the conversation we're having. He is free to say whatever he wants. His critics are free to criticize him. Glad we got that cleared up.

:e:

Great now it looks like a dog pile.

Point still stands though.
ScientificPizza
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by amiablepercy

It is. Some people on the side of those railing against JonTron through how they've expressed themselves seem to be saying Jon Tron has no right to say this stuff. He completely does. That's where the relevance is. It doesn't mean he's not wrong or an asshole.

"seem to be saying" means that that's what you're interpreting. All anyone is saying is that what Jon has said if dangerous and reprehensible. No one is saying he has no right to say anything and should be arrested, that's something that you're adding to the discussion for seemingly no other reason than to give sympathy to Jon

Jon has the right to spew his white nationalist rhetoric. We all have a right to call him a stupid piece of shit because of it
amiablepercy
Banned
(03-21-2017, 03:13 AM)

Originally Posted by Mathaou

I personally think that this is a huge over reaction. The difference between the left and right is literally just a difference of priorities nowadays. He feels that our identity as a country is being threatened and that everyone should be proud to be American, and that generalizations towards any race are messed up. He also doesn't really understand the use of labels and doesn't know much about gender identity and those kinds of things or at least doesn't understand. These are things that aren't very relateable to him and to many Americans. Don't attack him for not understanding. He thinks he already understands as that's the kind of guy he is, he just drew a different conclusion from some people. He probably will never understand a more liberal mindset so don't waste any time.

If he says any racist or xenophobic shit in this day and age it can usually be boiled down to, "my lifestyle is threatened". This isn't that radical of a response to all of the problems facing America, I feel. He's not going around committing crime he's just scared.

So let the guy stew. I have gotten way more complacent when it comes to ideologies in these trying times - many people have polarized completely. If someone has rather left or right views I try and be understanding.

If JonTron offended you, that's fine. But try and understand where he's coming from. Not as an excuse, but rather an explanation.

A post like this. It could be my misinterpretation but by using terms like" scared "or "threatened" to me reads like they think other side is oppressing him or denying him his liberties or that he is somehow being persecuted. The victimization song of someone feeling his rights (like free speech) are being trampled. I've seen this on the reddit thread constantly and the comment section on his Statement Youtube. That is my point but maybe I'm wrong.
Johndoey
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by LionPride

Where

In their imagination.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
(03-21-2017, 03:18 AM)
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Holy shit! OP man, you're underselling just how much he doubles down. The sad thing is he opens up his video with a disclaimer about how he may have said somethings during the debate that people are misconstruing and then proceeds to say the same things he said during the debate! We hopefully its clear now for the people who may have mischaracterized his views.

Also, I'm starting to feel like "honest conversation about race" is to racist as "stop resisting" is to crocked cops. Deeper still, just what arrogance when people who identify with the legacy of oppressors feel honesty about race can only be achieved once they decide to offer their "opinions" on the matter. Seriously, go fuck yourselves!
Breads
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by amiablepercy

A post like this. It could be my misinterpretation but by using terms like" scared "or "threatened" to me reads like they think other side is oppressing him or denying him his liberties or that he is somehow being persecuted. The victimization song of someone feeling his rights (like free speech) are being trampled. I've seen this on the reddit thread constantly and the comment section on his Statement Youtube. That is my point but maybe I'm wrong.

You quoted a person who admitted later on in that page or the next that they didn't even know what Jontron said nor did they follow the conversation up until that point. That entire post was a fabrication that did not reflect the conversation at hand and they apologized for it later.

They were questioned by a mod about it, seen here.

Originally Posted by besada

Why would you come in and start defending someone when you had no idea what the person had said? Where does that impulse come from? I've banned a half dozen people for defending what is clearly explicit racism in this thread, in part because they did exactly what you just did.

Can you explain to me the logic in making your initial post if you didn't understand what was being discussed?

They admitted to making a mistake and have since moved on.

Much like them I expect you to admit that you're just making things up to get your point across because much like their post Jontron's free speech has nothing to do with what we're talking about. His free speech isn't being questioned. Why do you insist that it is while simultaneously struggling to give us examples.
LionPride
Banned
(03-21-2017, 03:38 AM)

Originally Posted by amiablepercy

A post like this. It could be my misinterpretation but by using terms like" scared "or "threatened" to me reads like they think other side is oppressing him or denying him his liberties or that he is somehow being persecuted. The victimization song of someone feeling his rights (like free speech) are being trampled. I've seen this on the reddit thread constantly and the comment section on his Statement Youtube. That is my point but maybe I'm wrong.

...sigh
PHOENIXZERO
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:43 AM)
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I only made it about half way through that "debate" with Destiny or whatever his name was before I had to stop or I'd start slamming my head against my desk.
Bastables
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by PHOENIXZERO

I only made it about half way through that "debate" with Destiny or whatever his name was before I had to stop or I'd start slamming my head against my desk.

I gave up half way through with Destiny's "Follow up" debate with a Dailystormer contributor. combined I think I sat through 3hrs or thereabouts of malign white supremacy piffle. :(
Compsiox
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:48 AM)
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Internet Rule #445: Don't share your opinions unless anonymous
Breads
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bastables

I gave up half way through with Destiny's "Follow up" debate with a Dailystormer contributor. combined I think I sat through 3hrs or thereabouts of malign white supremacy piffle. :(

Aw... that means you missed the part when his wife came in and pretty much declared all women as inferior to men. You also missed out on how because he had some homosexual experiences he is also an authority on those degenerate gays as well. And, if you were paying attention, you missed the total tally of beers he cracked open (more than 10 but probably less than 20!).
depths20XX
Member
(03-21-2017, 03:53 AM)
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I'm honestly disappointed more youtubers didn't come out and tell JonTron to check his shit. This was what, a 2 hour "debate"? Clearly not a slip of the tongue or a context situation. His follow up video didn't really do much to change my thoughts on it. I really used to enjoy his old videos but this is one of the first times I've felt I just can't watch this persons stuff anymore.
Aaron Strife
Honk if you love cookies.
(03-21-2017, 04:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by ScientificPizza

You don't agree with Jon? So much for """free speech""".....................

You don't support thieves and embezzlers? So much for the pursuit of happiness!
Bastables
Member
(03-21-2017, 04:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by Breads

Aw... that means you missed the part when his wife came in and pretty much declared all women as inferior to men. You also missed out on how because he had some homosexual experiences he is also an authority on those degenerate gays as well. And, if you were paying attention, you missed the total tally of beers he cracked open (more than 10 but probably less than 20!).


I got out when he cracked a 4th beer, defended himself as not asking to be here... Then humble bragged about his lovely office festooned with books and a Vintage wooden desk. Ensconced with in his little man room could, without shakes indulge in Vices such as Beer (brewed first in Mesopotamia) and tobacco (first grown for human consumption by Native Americans). But white culture is superior because Cauc's and Mogliods developed wheels and negroid's did not. Ignoring Egypt a state/nation in africa, ignoring wheel's earliest use being understood as Mesopotamia in what is now Iraq/middle east not in cauc race lands near the caucus mountains in "Europe". Europe aka that land mass that's actually part of asia..


The malign levels of self and external hate coupled with contradictions all over the show was a bit harrowing for me so:


wut, I'm out of this youtube video.

I like to think I then watched a Radio New Zealand thing about crime, I probably really watched a bunch of k pop videos.


Wut he had homosexual experiences as well, which he regards as degenerate "now" while in a relationship with a women who regards herself as inferior, what a stew of self inflicted darkness he's in.. wow.
Last edited by Bastables; 03-21-2017 at 04:25 AM.
LionPride
Banned
(03-21-2017, 04:46 AM)

Originally Posted by hipbabboom

Holy shit! OP man, you're underselling just how much he doubles down. The sad thing is he opens up his video with a disclaimer about how he may have said somethings during the debate that people are misconstruing and then proceeds to say the same things he said during the debate! We hopefully its clear now for the people who may have mischaracterized his views.

Also, I'm starting to feel like "honest conversation about race" is to racist as "stop resisting" is to crocked cops. Deeper still, just what arrogance when people who identify with the legacy of oppressors feel honesty about race can only be achieved once they decide to offer their "opinions" on the matter. Seriously, go fuck yourselves!

I did not have the energy to detail how much that cretin doubled down.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame™
(03-21-2017, 05:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bastables

I got out when he cracked a 4th beer, defended himself as not asking to be here... Then humble bragged about his lovely office festooned with books and a Vintage wooden desk. Ensconced with in his little man room could, without shakes indulge in Vices such as Beer (brewed first in Mesopotamia) and tobacco (first grown for human consumption by Native Americans). But white culture is superior because Cauc's and Mogliods developed wheels and negroid's did not. Ignoring Egypt a state/nation in africa, ignoring wheel's earliest use being understood as Mesopotamia in what is now Iraq/middle east not in cauc race lands near the caucus mountains in "Europe". Europe aka that land mass that's actually part of asia..


The malign levels of self and external hate coupled with contradictions all over the show was a bit harrowing for me so:


wut, I'm out of this youtube video.

I like to think I then watched a Radio New Zealand thing about crime, I probably really watched a bunch of k pop videos.


Wut he had homosexual experiences as well, which he regards as degenerate "now" while in a relationship with a women who regards herself as inferior, what a stew of self inflicted darkness he's in.. wow.

.

If you're wondering his final count was 13 or 14. Oh and I dunno if you missed the ethnostate argument. It was great.
Bastables
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Complex Shadow

.

If you're wondering his final count was 13 or 14. Oh and I dunno if you missed the ethnostate argument. It was great.

This is the guy that thought he could articulate Jontrons arguments better than Jontron..

Your references to his blithering about ethnostate, and Breads reference to peeks into the self loathing that drives him have now made me commit to rewatching the full "debate" now that I'm home.

We all are drawn to car crashes right :( jesus, fuck.

post 5min into my watch

Ho my god Negro's are worse as they sold their own into slavery and scandinavans did not as they learned to struggle. He (dailystomer) needs to look up Thralls...
Last edited by Bastables; 03-21-2017 at 05:18 AM.
Crosseyes
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:30 AM)
If the U.S. was a more ethically sound country we'd be able to actually argue over whether his filth were protected by free speech or not. Which of course now it legally is.

Something a lot of EU countries like Germany have is their hate speech laws which can recognize the very real danger of legally allowing people to speak hateful things of other races, genders, sexuality... whatever.

To some in the U.S. we could see that as abhorrent that someone could see legal consequences for spewing hate speech but when we can see where unfettered hate speech is driving America we only need to ask those who lived where hate speech suddenly got to be the acceptable view just under a century ago.
Toby Dammit
Banned
(03-21-2017, 05:37 AM)
I don't know exactly what he said originally that caused such an uproar, but I really can't disagree with anything he said in that video.

Were his original statements really that offensive?
danm999
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I don't know exactly what he said originally that caused such an uproar, but I really can't disagree with anything he said in that video.

Were his original statements really that offensive?

I recommend the last line of the OP.
Sai-kun
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I don't know exactly what he said originally that caused such an uproar, but I really can't disagree with anything he said in that video.

Were his original statements really that offensive?

why yall do this to yourselves
NexusCell
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I don't know exactly what he said originally that caused such an uproar, but I really can't disagree with anything he said in that video.

Were his original statements really that offensive?

And another one bites the dust. (Unless it's sarcasm)

In case its not, WATCH THE ORIGINAL VIDEO
Sianos
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I don't know exactly what he said originally that caused such an uproar, but I really can't disagree with anything he said in that video.

Were his original statements really that offensive?

hm perhaps if you watched them then you could draw your own conclusion

i look forward to it
excelsiorlef
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I don't know exactly what he said originally that caused such an uproar, but I really can't disagree with anything he said in that video.

Were his original statements really that offensive?

Would you define saying black people are genetically predisposed to commit crimes and immigrants dilute America's gene pool offensive?
Toby Dammit
Banned
(03-21-2017, 05:45 AM)

Originally Posted by danm999

I recommend the last line of the OP.

I tried to, but his different viewpoints are taken from all over the place, and I'm too lazy to watch and listen all of the source material to put everything in context. From the outline that I read some of his views are certainly white nationalist, some conservative, others just insensitive and in bad taste, but again its very difficult to tell without listening to exactly what he had said.

Don't care either way, never was too big a fan of Jontron
LionPride
Banned
(03-21-2017, 05:46 AM)

Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I don't know exactly what he said originally that caused such an uproar, but I really can't disagree with anything he said in that video.

Were his original statements really that offensive?

Bruh I literally put it in the first post

Do better
Dr. Black Jack
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I tried to, but his different viewpoints are taken from all over the place, and I'm too lazy to watch and listen all of the source material to put everything in context. From the outline that I read some of his views are certainly white nationalist, some conservative, others just insensitive and in bad taste, but again its very difficult to tell without listening to exactly what he had said.

Don't care either way, never was too big a fan of Jontron

Same old

bullshit.
BlastProcessing
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I tried to, but his different viewpoints are taken from all over the place, and I'm too lazy to watch and listen all of the source material to put everything in context. From the outline that I read some of his views are certainly white nationalist, some conservative, others just insensitive and in bad taste, but again its very difficult to tell without listening to exactly what he had said.

Don't care either way, never was too big a fan of Jontron

Too lazy to watch. Not too lazy to forward an opinion.
depths20XX
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by excelsiorlef

Would you define saying black people are genetically predisposed to commit crimes and immigrants dilute America's gene pool offensive?

It's fucking hilarious because you can use the exact same trotted out example that's always used of "replace the races" and see how it's such a dumbass thing to say.
danm999
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I tried to, but his different viewpoints are taken from all over the place, and I'm too lazy to watch and listen all of the source material to put everything in context. From the outline that I read some of his views are certainly white nationalist, some conservative, others just insensitive and in bad taste, but again its very difficult to tell without listening to exactly what he had said.

Don't care either way, never was too big a fan of Jontron

So you felt the need to weigh in even though you don't know what he said and don't care.
Chie Satonaka
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I tried to, but his different viewpoints are taken from all over the place, and I'm too lazy to watch and listen all of the source material to put everything in context. From the outline that I read some of his views are certainly white nationalist, some conservative, others just insensitive and in bad taste, but again its very difficult to tell without listening to exactly what he had said.

Don't care either way, never was too big a fan of Jontron

So why are you here?
Aaron Strife
Honk if you love cookies.
(03-21-2017, 05:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by BlastProcessing

Too lazy to watch. Not too lazy to forward an opinion.

That's the problem with America, everyone wants an opinion, no one gives a fuck about whether they earned one.
LionPride
Banned
(03-21-2017, 05:51 AM)

Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I tried to, but his different viewpoints are taken from all over the place, and I'm too lazy to watch and listen all of the source material to put everything in context. From the outline that I read some of his views are certainly white nationalist, some conservative, others just insensitive and in bad taste, but again its very difficult to tell without listening to exactly what he had said.

Don't care either way, never was too big a fan of Jontron

Ass ain't to lazy to form a half assed opinion though...okay
Toby Dammit
Banned
(03-21-2017, 05:52 AM)

Originally Posted by danm999

So you felt the need to weigh in even though you don't know what he said and don't care.

i weighed in my opinions on this specific video, not the entire controversy. I also followed up my opinion with a question about the original controversy, as I haven't spent enough time reading through it as I'm sure many of the posters here have.
get over yourself
Sai-kun
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:53 AM)
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toby sis...wyd
『Inaba Resident』
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

i weighed in my opinions on this specific video, not the entire controversy. I also followed up my opinion with a question about the original controversy, as I haven't spent enough time reading through it as I'm sure many of the posters here have.
get over yourself

You put out your opinion on this specific video that is 100% tied to the controversy without knowing what said controversy is about.
sestrugen
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

I tried to, but his different viewpoints are taken from all over the place, and I'm too lazy to watch and listen all of the source material to put everything in context. From the outline that I read some of his views are certainly white nationalist, some conservative, others just insensitive and in bad taste, but again its very difficult to tell without listening to exactly what he had said.

Don't care either way, never was too big a fan of Jontron

I refuse to inform myself but let me tell why I think you are overreacting
Toby Dammit
Banned
(03-21-2017, 05:57 AM)

Originally Posted by Aaron Strife

That's the problem with America, everyone wants an opinion, no one gives a fuck about whether they earned one.

almost as bad as snobbish posters on forums who think they're above answering genuine questions about certain issues and events.
Nanashrew
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

i weighed in my opinions on this specific video, not the entire controversy. I also followed up my opinion with a question about the original controversy, as I haven't spent enough time reading through it as I'm sure many of the posters here have.
get over yourself

Everything you need to know, summaries and all. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1352025

The video JonTron made today is about the stuff he said in the debate. If you can't watch that, I just dunno how you can weigh in your opinion.
danm999
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

i weighed in my opinions on this specific video, not the entire controversy. I also followed up my opinion with a question about the original controversy, as I haven't spent enough time reading through it as I'm sure many of the posters here have.
get over yourself

So you asked questions you didn't actually want the answer to, in a topic you don't care about, and are now pretending that's a perfectly reasonable thing lots of people here are doing.

Though if you'd actually checked on this last one you might notice everyone who has done what you're doing now has their username in grey.
Toby Dammit
Banned
(03-21-2017, 06:01 AM)

Originally Posted by Nanashrew

Everything you need to know, summaries and all. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1352025

The video JonTron made today is about the stuff he said in the debate. If you can't watch that, I just dunno how you can weigh in your opinion.

all i wanted was a general reaction by a few posters here, nothing too lengthy, but just enough to give me an idea of how people reacted to his offensive comments, instead of having to read through a thread with 5k posts.
depths20XX
Member
(03-21-2017, 06:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toby Dammit

almost as bad as snobbish posters on forums who think they're above answering genuine questions about certain issues and events.

I know a lot of people jumped in on you but you really need to watch his original debate before you weigh in on his response video.
Spyderist
Banned
(03-21-2017, 06:02 AM)
Jontron went from a hero in gamegrumps controversy rumor mills to now a weird white nationalist villain. It's interesting to watch. I dont want anyone involved in politics without reading it and thinking about it, if Jontron was always a Jared Taylor and always made that known obviously he would've never grew his audience or got a normalboots staff, but this fallout would've have been harsh. He would've been a known entity.
CannonFodder52
Member
(03-21-2017, 06:02 AM)
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Curious on everyone's thoughts on Destiny. I can't make a thread, and this is somewhat on topic.
I see a lot of people on here that have immediately discredited him because they heard him using the far to typical internet derogatives. I assume stuff like "retard". I don't think that's defendable at all, but I think he's worth discussing at least.

I just started checking out his content. I'm convinced he's a really bizarre outlier. He seems to have cultivated a pretty large progressive community. Although his seems very different from other left wing youtubers. I think people like Hbomberguy, who I love, simply attracted in people who were already left or PC. Destiny, I get the vibe that he has actually converted his audience into his views. Looking at his chat is a very weird experience. These guys seem like the typical toxic twitch chat, spamming emotes and memes. Yet they are often shitposting anti alt-right/anti-gg stuff along with twitch memes.

I just watched this video of his https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryXhON7u7gw
-He talks about the awful landscape of gaming with the popularity of toxic alt-right population.
-He somewhat defends Anita Sarkeesian.
-Shit talks GG.
-Brings attention to the issue with female representation in video games/pop culture.
-When talking about debating Sargon, he implied that he's more interested in reaching gamers who could be potentially swayed away from Sargon/that side of thought.

I guess my point is, this guy is a hugely popular streamer of League and Counter Strike. The communities in these games do not line up with pc culture. Yet he seems to have converted a huge number of people to a fairly progressive mindset. Potentially a lot of his audience might not have been swayed by someone who (rightfully) gets offended by the use of "retard" as a derogative.

What do you guys think? Even if you won't watch his content due to him using offensive deragatives, do you think he's potentially a positive personality in gaming?

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