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botty
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:16 AM)

Originally Posted by Paddington Bear

First, that isn't true in Roxas case. The ability to wield a keyblade is tied to the "heart".

Let me be clear. Sora's heart is in Sora. However, the memories which make up a heart are necessary for a person to function. Thus, Sora's sleep-state at the end of COM and also Roxas sleep-state at the beginning of 358. Nobodies usually get the memories from the heart that left the body, however Roxas is different because the two hearts used in his creation aren't capable of sharing memories. First, Ven's heart is inside of him but is incapable of giving him memories because it sleeping. This is a vital reason he can wield a keyblade. Second, Sora's heart which resides in Sora so it can't give memories to Roxas. That is, until the his memories get jacked and he has to sleep. During this period, many of Sora's memories were tied up within Roxas. This is why most of Sora's heart was in Roxas.

Another point; Xehanort is a Keyblade Master. Terra is a Keyblade Master. Yet Xemnas can't wield (that we have seen.) Nor can the other nobodies from the Org. that have been given Xehanort's heart. The only 2 versions of Xehanort that can wield keyblades are Master Xehanort, and Young Xehanort. These are THE SAME PERSON from different times. What was missing in these? "Xehanort's Memories."

Memories are required to form enough of a heart to wield a keyblade. In fact, in a riddle, Nomura says that "the keyblade that Roxas wields, and the thing that Sora would lose in Castle Oblivion are the same." Clearly, that is saying that the keyblade the Roxas wields is Sora's based on the memories of Sora he has. (Btw, it should be noted that Roxas has always had a small amount of Sora's memories from the short period of time that Sora was a heartless, thus explaining his ability to wield.)

Regarding Xion, she isn't a Replica of Sora, she is a Replica of Roxas and is given form due to Sora's Memories of Kairi. The fact that she appears inside Sora's heart at the end of DDD is evidence that she does have a heart. When she wields a keyblade, she is using the one made from Sora's Memories. She was absorbed into Roxas.

I'm sure i missed stuff. Call me out. I love this crap :P

I am with you up until the memory stuff. Roxas was fully functional, and wielding a keyblade before he had any of Sora's memories. There is a period (training period) where both Roxas and Sora are awake, both wielding keyblades. He only started gathering those memories as they seeped out, due to Naminé's complete reconstruction... which occured on [Day 26] . Due to this, Roxas also falls into a bit of a coma. So either I am mistaken, or your memory theory doesn't count for the 26 days Roxas wielded a keyblade without Sora's heart/memories.

Moving on to Xemnas wielding a keyblade, Nomura once alluded to the fact that Xemnas can wield a keyblade, he just doesn't want to.

-- Roxas, the "Sora + Ventus" Nobody, was able to use a Keyblade. In contrast Xemnas, the "Terra + Master Xehanort" Nobody, wasn't able to use a Keyblade. Why is this?

Nomura: I'd rather that point remain a mystery. It's possible that he intentionally wasn't using one.

Xion being inside Sora isn't confirmation that she has a heart. It's just an acknowledgement of what Naminé spoke about near the end of CoM: That memories are never truly lost, even when erased, and continue to exist deep in the heart.

Also, I don't recall Xion being confirmed as a Replica of Roxas, but nor do I recall her being confirmed as a Sora replica either. So I will take your word for it.

However, I believe her Dream Drop Distance journal entry should read:

Organization XIII's mysterious fourteenth member. She was an experimental replica used to "catch" Roxas's memories and create a Keyblade wielder for the Organization.[spoiler] In the end, she was erased from existence and returned to Sora where she belonged.

Confirming that she was absorbed into Sora, not Roxas.
Seda
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:22 AM)
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Out of all of Kingdom Hearts plot elements, it's the "who's heart is where at what point in time at what state allowing a keyblade to be used" thing that's the most involved and for me, the hardest to keep straight.. Even moreso than some of the weird stuff out of DDD, like Time Travel, the revelation that Nobodies can gain hearts, Xehanorts master plan, etc
Paddington Bear
(01-30-2013, 06:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by botty

I am with you up until the memory stuff. Roxas was fully functional, and wielding a keyblade before he had any of Sora's memories. There is a period (training period) where both Roxas and Sora are awake, both wielding keyblades. He only started gathering those memories as they seeped out, due to Naminé's complete reconstruction... which occured on [Day 26] . Due to this, Roxas also falls into a bit of a coma. So either I am mistaken, or your memory theory doesn't count for the 26 days Roxas wielded a keyblade without Sora's heart/memories.

Moving on to Xemnas wielding a keyblade, Nomura once alluded to the fact that Xemnas can wield a keyblade, he just doesn't want to.



Xion being inside Sora isn't confirmation that she has a heart. It's just an acknowledgement of what Naminé spoke about near the end of CoM: That memories are never truly lost, even when erased, and continue to exist deep in the heart.

Also, I don't recall Xion being confirmed as a Replica of Roxas, but nor do I recall her being confirmed as a Sora replica either. So I will take your word for it.

However, I believe her Dream Drop Distance journal entry should read:



Confirming that she was absorbed into Sora, not Roxas.

I mentioned this in my last post but Roxas got some of Sora's memories during the time while Sora was a heartless.

The Xehanort choosing not to wield thing is vexing for sure, however I think there is enough evidence to support Memory's importance to keyblade wielding. It probably has to do with the Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony. Theoretically you should be able to trace each keyblade back to a weilder who has had this done on them.

It could be that Memory is the key to that. Which would give credence to the idea that a heart is 100% necessary for wielding. Usually memory is stored in the heart but when it isn't...

However, Ven's heart is on Roxas, so it doesn't really matter for that argument haha. It could explain away Xion though, but I do believe that she has a heart. That is sort of the theme of the games :p
Gintoki313
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:29 AM)

Originally Posted by YoungBlade

It's totally worth it. It is pretty much necessary to play if you want to understand what is going.

Alright I'll look into it then. I've played most of the KH games except Birth by Sleep, and RE: Chain of Memories. I'm guessing since I enjoyed 358/2 Days I should enjoy this also. Hopefully the battle systems aren't the same for these 2 games, because I just didn't like 358/2 Days battle system as much.
Anival
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:30 AM)
I love the KH series but man ill probably be 30 by the time KH 3 comes out lol.
botty
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:33 AM)
What do you think about remnants, such as the Lingering Will and Vantias' remnant? While the latter might not be a confirmed as "canon," I think the Lingering Will is an interesting anomaly of something wielding a keyblade without having a heart.

and I would love it if Xion did indeed have a heart. ;_;

The Lamp
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Seda

Out of all of Kingdom Hearts plot elements, it's the "who's heart is where at what point in time at what state allowing a keyblade to be used" thing that's the most involved and for me, the hardest to keep straight.. Even moreso than some of the weird stuff out of DDD, like Time Travel, the revelation that Nobodies can gain hearts, Xehanorts master plan, etc

What is needed is a flow chart and some arrows :P
Seda
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Anival

any body else thought how cool it was that Axel is a keyblade weilder now?

(DDD spoiler)

Honestly, I thought it would have been neat to have a major protagonist (outside of Donald and Goofy) who wasn't a keyblade wielder, just to make him more unique.

EDIT: You edited, oh well
Anival
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:39 AM)

Originally Posted by Seda

(DDD spoiler)

Honestly, I thought it would have been neat to have a major protagonist (outside of Donald and Goofy) who wasn't a keyblade wielder, just to make him more unique.

EDIT: You edited, oh well

Yeah I edited because my phone wasn't showing me if it was actually as a spoiler or not lol. Wasn't really expecting it my self but I thought it was cool he is one of my favorite characters. DDD felt like inception towards the end for me lol
botty
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:46 AM)
I hope Lea adopts a similar wardrobe to his BbS outfit in the next Kingdom Hearts

GAMERG0D
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:50 AM)
Why does the OP say that it isn't necessary to play Re:Coded?
Saprol
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:51 AM)
Did other people find the Drop mechanic distracting?

I didn't like walking around Notre Dame, going the opposite direction after the drop, and then trying to remember where I'm going after dropping again. I could immediately swap to stay on track with one character until I hit the world end but then it's just a lot of wasteful actions.
Seda
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by GAMERG0D

Why does the OP say that it isn't necessary to play Re:Coded?

Well, Re:coded is actually quite a fun game to play, it's pretty similar to the BBS system. However, most of the plot elements are unimportant to the overall storyline of the series, with the exception of the secret ending.

Originally Posted by Saprol

Did other people find the Drop mechanic distracting?

A lot of people did.
botty
Banned
(01-30-2013, 07:00 AM)

Originally Posted by Saprol

Did other people find the Drop mechanic distracting?

I didn't like walking around Notre Dame, going the opposite direction after the drop, and then trying to remember where I'm going after dropping again. I could immediately swap to stay on track with one character until I hit the world end but then it's just a lot of wasteful actions.

Since the game was so rushed, you can tell they didn't spend enough time fine tuning it... which is why we get drops during boss fights. However, I did enjoy the mechanic for allowing me to play two stories at once, at a unique pacing.
Famassu
(01-30-2013, 12:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Lamp

I think they've been trying to make it for 6 years they just keep snipping off Nomura's plot ideas and turn them into separate, smaller games.

No.

Originally Posted by RPGCrazied

Can't wait for the KH remix 1.5 HD to release in NA. But seriously, where is Kingdom Hearts 3? Think it will ever get made?

Of course it'll be made. That's what these games have been building up to. I'm almost 100% positive that at least some work is being done in regards to KHIII already.
silkysmooth
Member
(01-30-2013, 12:31 PM)
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I never got into CoM and the card battle thing. It all honestly felt so clunky.

Also never played Re:Coded either. Just never felt the need to.

But man do I love every other installment in the series.

Think I might replay Days because it's so unique.

I also love all the plot talk and being able to read every spoiler because I've played all the games pretty much.

edit: Does anyone happen to know of a channel that has a full playthrough of CoM? I own the game but honestly can't stand it enough to play it to completion.
Paddington Bear
(01-30-2013, 01:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by botty

What do you think about remnants, such as the Lingering Will and Vantias' remnant? While the latter might not be a confirmed as "canon," I think the Lingering Will is an interesting anomaly of something wielding a keyblade without having a heart.

and I would love it if Xion did indeed have a heart. ;_;

I think the most important thing regarding the Lingering Will is that it is essentially only created because Terra has a tremendous mental strength. This will come into play later when Terra fights against his captures control. Vanitas remnant and other non-canon keyblade armors aren't significant. It is important to remember that there isn't a keychain on the lingering spirits keyblade.

In DDD, Sora says that Roxas, Naminé, Axel and "that other girl" (Xion) all must have had hearts, saying "You need a heart to cry."

I would wager Xion has a heart.
The Lamp
Member
(01-30-2013, 01:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Famassu

No.

Of course it'll be made. That's what these games have been building up to. I'm almost 100% positive that at least some work is being done in regards to KHIII already.


Yes.

Half the stupid shit they made up and extrapolated to create lengthy side stories could have been simplified, distilled, and presented altogether in a big sequel, like MGS4 did to wrap up plot holes for its series. To me it's like they made a 10 hour side game called Sunny's Fried Eggs instead of just putting her in MGS4.

We didn't have to play through all the same damn Disney worlds again to get the meat of Roxas story in 358/2. SE proves this just by the fact that they're making a cutscenes movie out of its plot lol.
Paddington Bear
(01-30-2013, 02:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Famassu

No.

Of course it'll be made. That's what these games have been building up to. I'm almost 100% positive that at least some work is being done in regards to KHIII already.

There is no question.

Osaka team is working on KH3 and when the original KH team finishes Versus they will hop on it too.
Sowee
Banned
(01-30-2013, 02:09 PM)
So, DDD relinks the entire story, merging the BBS and the KH1/KH2? That seems nice. I have to get it ASAP.
aravuus
Member
(01-30-2013, 03:00 PM)
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DDD was good, even great, but it lacked the feeling of grand adventure the main games have. I disliked the way the game handled magic and items, even though it made healing all the time without consequences possible.

Also I have kind of an "I want it all at all times" attitude about abilities, so I didn't really like how you had to have a specific mon in the party to get its abilities.

KH1 and 2 really nailed the gameplay imo, so I hope they go back their style for KH3.

Also I'm completely new here, so hi
Dereck
(01-30-2013, 03:33 PM)

Originally Posted by Muntu

DDD was good, even great, but it lacked the feeling of grand adventure the main games have.

This is what makes me prefer II over BBS and KHI.
Paddington Bear
(01-30-2013, 03:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by boutdown

This is what makes me prefer II over BBS and KHI.

I'm there with you man. KH3 is gonna be massive...
Atmej
Member
(01-30-2013, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Paddington Bear

Another point; Xehanort is a Keyblade Master. Terra is a Keyblade Master. Yet Xemnas can't wield (that we have seen.) Nor can the other nobodies from the Org. that have been given Xehanort's heart. The only 2 versions of Xehanort that can wield keyblades are Master Xehanort, and Young Xehanort. These are THE SAME PERSON from different times. What was missing in these? "Xehanort's Memories."

Young Xenahort can't really wield, ''he'' was only able to summon Xenahort's Keyblade when Xenahort transferred his consciousness to him, so it was really old Xenahort in YX's body who summoned the Keyblade.

Originally Posted by Paddington Bear

I think the most important thing regarding the Lingering Will is that it is essentially only created because Terra has a tremendous mental strength. This will come into play later when Terra fights against his captures control. Vanitas remnant and other non-canon keyblade armors aren't significant. It is important to remember that there isn't a keychain on the lingering spirits keyblade.

In DDD, Sora says that Roxas, Naminé, Axel and "that other girl" (Xion) all must have had hearts, saying "You need a heart to cry."

I would wager Xion has a heart.

*DDD ending spoilers*
DDD interview with Nomura:
— It was declared from Ansem the Wise’s own mouth that everything can grow a heart.
Nomura: Yes it was, I thought I’d leave it clear in this title.

Ansem even specifically mentions an ''empty puppet'' and refers to Ven, Roxas and Xion as 3 young people.
Famassu
(01-30-2013, 04:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Lamp

Yes.

No. You don't know shit so don't make yourself sound stupid. They didn't "take Nomura's ideas and just stretch them to take a few games", don't be stupid. Nomura talked right after KHII how he thought there are things he wanted to still tell before III and that he'd need more than one game to do it. It was a matter of figuring out how he would tell about those events that are spread so much in time & place, not if they should be a part of III or not.

Half the stupid shit they made up and extrapolated to create lengthy side stories could have been simplified, distilled, and presented altogether in a big sequel, like MGS4 did to wrap up plot holes for its series. To me it's like they made a 10 hour side game called Sunny's Fried Eggs instead of just putting her in MGS4.

That's not even remotely the same. You're basically saying that they should've simplified MGS3 and just add the game's cutscenes as flashbacks to MGS4. Or that they should've just cut through most of MGS2 and jump straight from MGS1 to MGS4.

We didn't have to play through all the same damn Disney worlds again to get the meat of Roxas story in 358/2. SE proves this just by the fact that they're making a cutscenes movie out of its plot lol.

Roxas wasn't the only thing that Days extrapolated on. And sure, they could've perhaps added at least 2-3 new worlds to Days so that it wouldn't have been such a repeatathon, but it REALLY wouldn't have worked if they just went from II straight to III and have all the story of Days, BBS & 3D during III. It's silly to suggest that they should've added THREE HOURS WORTH OF cutscenes to KHIII to skip Days. Not that Days is the most important game in the series, but yeah, you're suggesting they'd include a huge info dump of the past (BBS), what happened during other games (Days) and the setup to III (3D) into one game that should have an epic story of its own. The three games just take place during such different times & happen to different people that they wouldn't have worked as a single game.
badcrumble
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:12 PM)
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Maybe Roxas's face will just change to look like someone totally new when Ven gets his heart back. I just don't want to have identical-looking characters running around, and it makes a lot more sense to keep Ventus than to keep Roxas (since Roxas is just a being generated from Ventus and Sora).

I mean, Roxas only looks the way he looks *because* of Ven.
BigBadShamoo
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:16 PM)

Originally Posted by boutdown

Oh, well yeah. I guess I was just talking about the model, not the costume. Sorry



I cannot unsee it.
Narolf
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:18 PM)
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A classic.
TheMink
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Atmej

Young Xenahort can't really wield, ''he'' was only able to summon Xenahort's Keyblade when Xenahort transferred his consciousness to him, so it was really old Xenahort in YX's body who summoned the Keyblade.


*DDD ending spoilers*
DDD interview with Nomura:
— It was declared from Ansem the Wise’s own mouth that everything can grow a heart.
Nomura: Yes it was, I thought I’d leave it clear in this title.

Ansem even specifically mentions an ''empty puppet'' and refers to Ven, Roxas and Xion as 3 young people.

Yeah he mentioned that interview before
aravuus
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Paddington Bear

I'm there with you man. KH3 is gonna be massive...

It's been confirmed that the next new KH game will be KH3, right? Obv not counting HD remakes.
Paddington Bear
(01-30-2013, 06:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Muntu

It's been confirmed that the next new KH game will be KH3, right? Obv not counting HD remakes.

Not explicitly, though it has been heavily hinted at.

What does everyone think about Nomura saying that there is no Post-Game reward for KH 1.5? (I'm not talking about the theme, i mean like secret movie/episode)

Personally, i think he is full of it. Nomura would never miss an opportunity to drop a mindbomb on us amirite?
volpone
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:45 PM)
Kingdom Hearts 3 is going to have an utterly terrible story. I'm playing through DDD right now it's really quite alarming not only how awful the writing is, but how it is told as well.

At the end of The Hunchback of Notre Dame Quasimodo redeems himself by heroically saving Esmeralda from Frollo and shouts 'Sanctuary' atop of Notre Dame. There's a lot of emotional weight to the scene and some good subtext too: Quasimodo is not only rejecting his supposed master but is also rejecting Frollo's monstrous piety that has brought Paris to ruin.

The same moment is played out in DDD but there's just nothing there. The whole game is like this. Even during it's own story. It talks big but it's just too much nonsensical jargon with nothing going on underneath. It's a shame because in Kingdom Hearts and Birth By Sleep there is some decent stuff to at least get invested in. And in Kingdom Hearts 2/Chain of Memories to a lesser degree too.

The series is being dragged down by its own convolutions. The presence of the 'Flashbacks' in DDD to inform the uninitiated of the game's various contexts is exemplary of godawful writing. Furthermore the writers are too afraid of the permanence of death, lest they upset the fanabse, so nothing is at stake anymore. And that kind of compromise is really quite insulting. The quite moving moment between Roxas and Namine as they recognise each other through their other-selves during the ending CG of Kingdom Hearts 2 now means nothing. The series has pretty much pledged to the fans that everyone will get a happy ending by Kingdom Hearts 3. So yeah, I guess I'll tune in for Kingdom Hearts 3 if they get the combat back on track but otherwise, I don't really care for this series anymore.

And I haven't even got to the part in DDD where time-travel is supposedly introduced.
botty
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:48 PM)

Originally Posted by Paddington Bear

Not explicitly, though it has been heavily hinted at.

What does everyone think about Nomura saying that there is no Post-Game reward for KH 1.5? (I'm not talking about the theme, i mean like secret movie/episode)

Personally, i think he is full of it. Nomura would never miss an opportunity to drop a mindbomb on us amirite?

Well, he did say Days wouldn't have a secret ending, and that game didn't. I find it odd that he wouldn't want to give us an HD secret movie, but then that only makes me believe we have another game coming which will house that secret movie.
Paddington Bear
(01-30-2013, 06:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by botty

Well, he did say Days wouldn't have a secret ending, and that game didn't. I find it odd that he wouldn't want to give us an HD secret movie, but then that only makes me believe we have another game coming which will house that secret movie.

I'd be happy if they just re-released Deep Dive in HD... I'd be more than happy haha

Originally Posted by volpone

Kingdom Hearts 3 is going to have an utterly terrible story.

aravuus
Member
(01-30-2013, 06:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by volpone

And I haven't even got to the part in DDD where time-travel is supposedly introduced.

It won't turn to utter shit, but it's most certainly becoming pretty bad. Too much weird shit going on. KH1 and 2 are still some of my favorite games ever, and I really liked the plot too then, but most of the stuff in DDD was just.. absurd.

Honestly, I'm a bit scared about KH3.
botty
Banned
(01-30-2013, 06:58 PM)

Originally Posted by volpone

Kingdom Hearts 3 is going to have an utterly terrible story. I'm playing through DDD right now it's really quite alarming not only how awful the writing is, but how it is told as well.

At the end of The Hunchback of Notre Dame Quasimodo redeems himself by heroically saving Esmeralda from Frollo and shouts 'Sanctuary' atop of Notre Dame. There's a lot of emotional weight to the scene and some good subtext too: Quasimodo is not only rejecting his supposed master but is also rejecting Frollo's monstrous piety that has brought Paris to ruin.

The same moment is played out in DDD but there's just nothing there. The whole game is like this. Even during it's own story. It talks big but it's just too much nonsensical jargon with nothing going on underneath. It's a shame because in Kingdom Hearts and Birth By Sleep there is some decent stuff to at least get invested in. And in Kingdom Hearts 2/Chain of Memories to a lesser degree too.

The series is being dragged down by its own convolutions. The presence of the 'Flashbacks' in DDD to inform the uninitiated of the game's various contexts is exemplary of godawful writing. Furthermore the writers are too afraid of the permanence of death, lest they upset the fanabse, so nothing is at stake anymore. And that kind of compromise is really quite insulting. The quite moving moment between Roxas and Namine as they recognise each other through their other-selves during the ending CG of Kingdom Hearts 2 now means nothing. The series has pretty much pledged to the fans that everyone will get a happy ending by Kingdom Hearts 3. So yeah, I guess I'll tune in for Kingdom Hearts 3 if they get the combat back on track but otherwise, I don't really care for this series anymore.

And I haven't even got to the part in DDD where time-travel is supposedly introduced.

A lot of the problems with Dream Drop Distance (game wise) is due to the game being rushed. It's why the game feels so empty, and barren at times. There was a translated interview posted by Atmej above that might give you some insight on that... but you might want to check it out after you finish the game, since it is heavy on spoilers.

I'm not sure if you're praising the Birth By Sleep story or it's gameplay, the latter being deserved, but the story is definitely not that great. It really feels like a star wars prequel trilogy rip off at times, and then we have to suffer through those god awful characters. I mean, we have these three keyblade wielders who have gone through extensive training easily fail, where three kids from a small island succeeded.

I do completely agree with you on the Roxas and Naminé part.

Originally Posted by Paddington Bear

I'd be happy if they just re-released Deep Dive in HD... I'd be more than happy haha

Well, we should be getting that with 1.5, right?
badcrumble
Member
(01-30-2013, 07:01 PM)
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BSS's story and characters are a hell of a lot better than pretty much anything in the series outside of KH1 and Chain of Memories. And yeah, the gameplay is the best in the series as well.
Verendus
Banned
(01-30-2013, 07:03 PM)

Originally Posted by Muntu

It's been confirmed that the next new KH game will be KH3, right? Obv not counting HD remakes.

You must believe in Kingdom Hearts 3. If you believe in it, it'll come true. Just imagine, 2016/17, a next generation Kingdom Hearts 3. Possible? Or would you say UNPOSSIBLE?!
Mit-
Member
(01-30-2013, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by YoungBlade

lolno

Ventus is cheery and energetic. Roxas is serious and a little depressed most of the time.

I'd chalk it up to their different life situations and not a personality difference. Granted, your personality can be defined by the experiences in your life, but if you took Roxas and Ventus and switched their positions in time/life around, I feel like they'd be the same. Roxas wouldn't have so much reason to be serious and depressed, Ventus would all of a sudden be someone who doesn't know who he is and questions his own existence, and works for a group of bad guys whose very purpose he questions, etc etc.
Famassu
(01-30-2013, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by volpone

So yeah, I guess I'll tune in for Kingdom Hearts 3 if they get the combat back on track but otherwise, I don't really care for this series anymore.

Uhh.. the three last Kingdom Hearts games have had three of the game's best combat systems. I wouldn't worry about that.

And I haven't even got to the part in DDD where time-travel is supposedly introduced.

I don't really get the outrage with this, though it does retcon one certain event. I mean, there are limitations to it that are kind of in line with the series as a whole. We've had people "storing" hearts of others and even sending them to digital worlds. Each different form of Xehanort sending his heart through time and needing to have a strong enough vessel for it aren't that out there, we knew Organization XIII served another purpose to what we had been revealed and there has been hints that some of the Org XIII members are special, having yellow eyes & everything.
Paddington Bear
(01-30-2013, 07:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by botty

Well, we should be getting that with 1.5, right?

I seriously hope so... I don't think we've heard either way

Originally Posted by Famassu

Uhh.. the three last Kingdom Hearts games have had three of the game's best combat systems. I wouldn't worry about that.


I don't really get the outrage with this, though it does retcon one certain event. I mean, there are limitations to it that are kind of in line with the series as a whole. We've had people "storing" hearts of others and even sending them to digital worlds. Each different form of Xehanort sending his heart through time and needing to have a strong enough vessel for it aren't that out there, we knew Organization XIII served another purpose to what we had been revealed and there has been hints that some of the Org XIII members are special, having yellow eyes & everything.

I agree. And it actually DDD doesn't introduce time travel. The Timeless River from KH2 is the past version of Disney Castle.
TheMink
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(01-30-2013, 07:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Famassu

Uhh.. the three last Kingdom Hearts games have had three of the game's best combat systems. I wouldn't worry about that.


I don't really get the outrage with this, though it does retcon one certain event. I mean, there are limitations to it that are kind of in line with the series as a whole. We've had people "storing" hearts of others and even sending them to digital worlds. Each different form of Xehanort sending his heart through time and needing to have a strong enough vessel for it aren't that out there, we knew Organization XIII served another purpose to what we had been revealed and there has been hints that some of the Org XIII members are special, having yellow eyes & everything.

Yeah i totally liked it :P
badcrumble
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(01-30-2013, 07:14 PM)
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I actually think KH3 could end up being pretty great story-wise because it shunted the maximum possible ridiculousness into DDD to get it all out of the way. KH3's job is to actually wrap up the 'Xehanort Saga,' so it's likely to actually tie up loose ends.

In terms of gameplay, it's likely to be pretty spectacularly fun, I think. Here's hoping the Osaka team is in charge of it.
botty
Banned
(01-30-2013, 07:14 PM)

Originally Posted by badcrumble

BSS's story and characters are a hell of a lot better than pretty much anything in the series outside of KH1 and Chain of Memories. And yeah, the gameplay is the best in the series as well.

KH2 and Days have a better story and characters than BbS in my opinion. The "chasers" are just so predictable and naive. Aside from Aqua, they all pretty much are just reductive versions of characters we had already been introduced to. Days managed to expand and explain things we weren't aware of without making everything else confusing, or retconning something. BbS attempted to do the same, but made things more confusing.
WeaponKnight
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(01-30-2013, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Muntu

It's been confirmed that the next new KH game will be KH3, right? Obv not counting HD remakes.

Originally Posted by Paddington Bear

Not explicitly, though it has been heavily hinted at.

During 3D's credits, the following phrase is spelt in capital letters:
THIS LEADS TO KINGDOM HEARTS III
(spoiled for crazy people, not a story spoiler. It's safe to read)

So, yeah. Kinda.
TheMink
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(01-30-2013, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by badcrumble

I actually think KH3 could end up being pretty great story-wise because it shunted the maximum possible ridiculousness into DDD to get it all out of the way. KH3's job is to actually wrap up the 'Xehanort Saga,' so it's likely to actually tie up loose ends.

In terms of gameplay, it's likely to be pretty spectacularly fun, I think. Here's hoping the Osaka team is in charge of it.

I can almost guarantee that
Seven Force
Banned
(01-30-2013, 07:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by badcrumble

I actually think KH3 could end up being pretty great story-wise because it shunted the maximum possible ridiculousness into DDD to get it all out of the way. KH3's job is to actually wrap up the 'Xehanort Saga,' so it's likely to actually tie up loose ends.

In terms of gameplay, it's likely to be pretty spectacularly fun, I think. Here's hoping the Osaka team is in charge of it.

I think KHIII's plot quality almost entirely hinges on how much they touch on the time travel nonsense. If they don't really go into it at all, great. If they go all in though, I'd expect another DDD-esque train wreck.
badcrumble
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(01-30-2013, 07:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by botty

KH2 and Days have a better story and characters than BbS in my opinion. The "chasers" are just so predictable and naive. Aside from Aqua, they all pretty much are just reductive versions of characters we had already been introduced to. Days managed to expand and explain things we weren't aware of without making everything else confusing, or retconning something. BbS attempted to do the same, but made things more confusing.

Days is utter crap. BBS is the MGS3 of the KH series - a tragic prequel that explains a lot of the weirdness that had been left out there while also telling its own self-contained story and having the best gameplay in the series.

And seriously, man, KH2's story is so, so bad too. The Organization members, apart from Xemnas and Axel, are just a bunch of mooks instead of individual characters with their own motivations (as they are in Chain of Memories).
Atmej
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(01-30-2013, 07:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by badcrumble

Maybe Roxas's face will just change to look like someone totally new when Ven gets his heart back. I just don't want to have identical-looking characters running around, and it makes a lot more sense to keep Ventus than to keep Roxas (since Roxas is just a being generated from Ventus and Sora).

I mean, Roxas only looks the way he looks *because* of Ven.

Roxas and Ventus are supposed to have a slightly different face, but in DDD they used the same models due to time constraints. Maybe they will make the differences more pronounced in KH3 and use the characters getting older as an excuse. Or they could just make Ven shave his head (just like Riku cut his hair) to show he is serious about getting Terra back.
I doubt they would emphasize Ven over Roxas, he is just too popular and I would never forgive Nomura if he did
volpone
Banned
(01-30-2013, 07:24 PM)

Originally Posted by botty

I'm not sure if you're praising the Birth By Sleep story or it's gameplay, the latter being deserved, but the story is definitely not that great. It really feels like a star wars prequel trilogy rip off at times, and then we have to suffer through those god awful characters. I mean, we have these three keyblade wielders who have gone through extensive training easily fail, where three kids from a small island succeeded.

I never praised any of Kingdom Hearts' story. The original dealt with the concept to the best of its ability but it's hardly good. Nevertheless in Birth By Sleep's case the lore of the series is fairly paired back to the game's benefit. It's a simpler story so there's a lot more clarity to the characters and their arcs. While the story is your typical Kingdom Hearts fluff, the game builds to a pretty strong climax. While Terra might be the biggest dumbass since Anakin Skywalker, I'd say the former is ironically enough a better character than the latter. While Anakin murders, betrays and even abuses his wife in the final act of Revenge of the Sith, Terra has the reprieve of not having committed such atrocities. He made mistakes the player can sympathise with. Thus, when his will lingers in the form of his armour, ready to fight to the bitter end against the deliriously sinister Xehanort the player really gets caught up in that moment. You want Terra to win, to make things right. He's a character worthy of redemption. You care what happens to these characters despite knowing that their fate is sealed.

The game also benefits from some of the series' better voice acting. While David Gallagher still turns in a pretty good job, Haley Joel Osment is just phoning it in these days. Or maybe that's just by consequence of Riku being a much stronger character than Sora.

And most Square games owe a debt to Star Wars.

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