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Sony has researched new tech for suppressing second-hand game sales

Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
I've not read the entire thread, and I presume this has already said, but this type of technology would probably be poorly received in Europe. All of our IP legislation has provisions to maintain secondary markets (spare parts and second-hand sales) and attempts to use technology to thwart the principle of exhaustion (the idea that your IP rights must expire once you make your product available on the market) would appear to run counter, possibly, to the TFEU - specifically Articles 101/102, and certainly to Article 4(2) of Directive 2009/24/EC.
 
E

Eideka

Banned
Besides, what would be Gamestop's reaction to this ? MS and Sony need retailers to sell their machine after all.
 
D

dosh

Member
I hope they never implement such a thing. I don't really care about the used games market, but that also hinders my ability to lend games to friends, which is ridiculous and already a huge pain with Steam.
Don't go there, hardware manufacturers.
 
G

Globox_82

Banned
I don't buy used, so whatever. If it helps developers I am for it actually. Otherwise I don't see how 60% of devs are going to survive next gen,.
 
E

Eusis

Member
Htown said:
This comes up every single time, and it's always an apples-and-oranges comparison.

CD keys and activation codes and restrictions on returns are an effort to prevent PC games from being illegally copied.

That is entirely different from putting technology into a game in order to prevent people from legally selling their used copies of games.
Click to expand...
At least his seems to acknowledge the key difference (what's stopping you from copying the disc, or copying the disc and using the CD key?). What Steam did was a mercy, the nature of PC meant everything could easily be copied and effectively kept unlike consoles (normally), so they had to lock down as this was a more black & white threat. Steam merely improved on the system by letting us redownload the games as we desire and to have to keep track of less crap, more than a few PC games I'm unable to reinstall because I need to hunt down BOTH cd keys and the disc(s).
DerZuhälter;46008157 said:
I don't really believe that this is a decision Sony can pull alone. Without MS going with the same approach they would never go for something like this. Backlash from retailers would hurt them too damn much.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it probably will depend BOTH on Microsoft doing it and getting away with it. I'm sure if, say, it causes the next Xbox to tank Sony will quietly scrap any plans, even if has to be very last minute.
 
N

Neo C.

Member
I want this to happen just to see how the market will respond. I doubt it will happen without MS backing up though.
 
F

FatalMuzza

Banned
All sounds over engineered. Online passes will become more prevalent. Internet will have more penetration with time. No need to be looking into offline DRM at this stage of the game.

Assuming ps4 comes with eyetoy standard just like Xbox with kinect 2.0, a simple QR code in the box will suffice.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
I don't buy used but I always end up trading in a game or two on impulse buys(new games).
guess im just going to cut back on games.

Would definitely be good for AAA games but this will hurt sales of lower quality/quantity games.
 
N

navanman

Crown Prince of Custom Firmware
Whether this comes with the PS4 or not, its coming down the line in the future with a digital-download consoles, entertainment systems.

You can't resell Steam games, PSN or XBL games/content or iOS/Android content.
 
S

spats

Member
I never buy used games, ever. So this doesn't concern me on a personal level. I can see this being a big problem for a bunch of other consumers though.
 
J

jonno394

Member
If Used games and trade ins become a thing of the past, I may well go full digital next gen as long as sales etc are good though PSN/LIVE marketplace.

It'd be interesting to see whether lack of used games would impact the speed in which game prices go BOMBA. DO people think it'd mean games were reduced in price faster, or would no used copies mean games would be sold at full price so stores can get as much money as possible?
 
I

IdreamofHIME

Member
It would be fucking hilarious if the console crash came next gen because consumers couldn't buy used games.
All these years of used games being blamed for low sales and then when they finally cut out the used section consoles sales take a nose dive.
With Vita, 3DS and WiiU sales under-performing, pissing of the consumers is just what the industry should not be doing....

..but I hope they do, coz I can't wait for the crash.
 
M

MrHicks

Banned
used books
used cars
used chairs
used beds
used cd's
used movies
used comics
used ........


ALL an acceptable part of society
BUT......with videogames you have a whole ridiculous defense force going "your not supporting the devs!!!! i always buy new for the devs!"

such anti consumer stockholm syndrome
 
D

Dick Justice

Banned
Eideka said:
Besides, what would be Gamestop's reaction to this ? MS and Sony need retailers to sell their machine after all.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I doubt companies like GAME would be willing to stock the consoles if they stop them completely from profiting off of used games sales.
 
J

jonno394

Member
Dick Justice said:
Interesting. I doubt companies like GAME would be willing to stock the consoles if they stop them completely from profiting off of used games sales.
Click to expand...

And then what exactly would GAME sell? Exclusive Wii U and 3DS sales? Yeah, that decision would flat out kill them.

Selling the consoles and games at a higher price than RRP is the route they would go to make more money.
 
W

web01

Member
IdreamofHIME said:
It would be fucking hilarious if the console crash came next gen because consumers couldn't buy used games.
All these years of used games being blamed for low sales and then when they finally cut out the used section consoles sales take a nose dive.
With Vita, 3DS and WiiU sales under-performing, pissing of the consumers is just what the industry should not be doing....

..but I hope they do, coz I can't wait for the crash.
Click to expand...

I agree if such a system was on both on Sony and MS systems it could kill the console industry. They should be going in the opposite direction.
 
T

The Abominable Snowman

Member
web01 said:
I agree if such a system was on both on Sony and MS systems it could kill the console industry. They should be going in the opposite direction.
Click to expand...

Hyperbole. Most consumers buy used just because its there, and often cheaper. The same consumers would still buy games. You might feel some type of way about it, but I doubt the average consumer does.
 
C

Coolwhip

Banned
MrHicks said:
used books
used cars
used chairs
used beds
used cd's
used movies
used comics
used ........


ALL an acceptable part of society
BUT......with videogames you have a whole ridiculous defense force going "your not supporting the devs!!!! i always buy new for the devs!"

such anti consumer stockholm syndrome
Click to expand...

cd's aren't exactly here to stay and do people really buy/sell used movies? Oh well, try buying used movies on streaming services, which are the future.

I think Sony would be better off to try to close the gap between 1$ iOS game and $70 console game though.
 
Fox Mulder

Fox Mulder

Member
Eideka said:
Besides, what would be Gamestop's reaction to this ? MS and Sony eed retailers to sell their machine after all.
Click to expand...

Gamestop sells a ton of pre orders for all the huge games. People buy new games, and can trade old ones towards them there.

Gamestop is painted as an evil corporation stealing food off the table of developers but they fill a need. The industry is in for a surprise if they kill used sales.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Cumpkin Hubris said:
I've not read the entire thread, and I presume this has already said, but this type of technology would probably be poorly received in Europe. All of our IP legislation has provisions to maintain secondary markets (spare parts and second-hand sales) and attempts to use technology to thwart the principle of exhaustion (the idea that your IP rights must expire once you make your product available on the market) would appear to run counter, possibly, to the TFEU - specifically Articles 101/102, and certainly to Article 4(2) of Directive 2009/24/EC.
Click to expand...

How do PC games and licensed software work in Europe?
 
E

Eusis

Member
I wonder how high movie sales REALLY are over digital services. I have yet to get a single one, so while music sounds sensible (and the shrinking spaces in retailers proves it), I'm not really sure that's applying to movies as well, maybe not TV shows either. I think the fact you have a LOT of features on blu-ray/DVD that typically aren't there for digital versions, even though they COULD BE, is a big factor. Not much you're missing by buying your album on iTunes over a CD except higher sound quality, and most people have trouble noticing that through their hardware (and sometimes I wonder how much is just placebo).

... Well, and it does seem more for movies that what's popular is just streaming off of Netflix, but that seems to be harming traditional rental more, given that even Blockbuster is toppled. And obviously used sales are as much a factor for that as used cable subscriptions: how the fuck does that even work?
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
Yagharek said:
So functionally it's a DRM dongle with the added euphemism of claiming that second hand games are 'not legitimate'.

Disgusting.
Click to expand...

First company to actually implement this with any game I buy is going to earn the right of 'I pirate shit from you now instead of purchasing'

fuck this idea, if anyone would implement it I'd make full use of my 'it's not illegal to download stuff' in the Netherlands bizarre legal loophole.
 
B

Blades64

Banned
Coolwhip said:
cd's aren't exactly here to stay and do people really buy/sell used movies? Oh well, try buying used movies on streaming services, which are the future.
Click to expand...

I would. Also, if video games go all digital, then I'll quit console gaming (or even real gaming in general) and just go with iOS and Android crap. If I can't physically own a copy of it, I really don't want it (except if it's a small PSN/XBL/E-Shop title). Not everyone lives in first world countries where you can get everything on demand or "from the cloud".

Coolwhip said:
I think Sony would be better off to try to close the gap between 1$ iOS game and $70 console game though.
Click to expand...

I agree with this now. The simple fact is that console games are just too expensive. I'm not paying $60 USD for just any game. Nowadays, you are paying $60 USD even for digital copies, which is ridiculous.

Overall, the simple fact is that it's 100% A-OK to buy anything used (cars, books, houses, appliances, furniture, etc), so why should video games be any different? Toyota doesn't get jack when I buy one of their car models from the neighbor across the street and you don't hear them complaining (and let's face it: they have a lot more money at stake than video games). Any company that does this can kiss my sale goodbye. Any console that does this can kiss my butt.
 
R

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
Mael said:
I buy the DVD if it is THAT good (or the dual release with BR and DVD), I usually do without.
For example, Simpsons complete seasons get bought in DVD cause there's no way in hell I'm not lending this to everyone I know

Sharing is caring, same goes for everything if I don't care about it enough to try to pass it to my friends I don't care enough to spend money on it.
I'm more surprised by the selfish nature of people here.
Click to expand...
What? Is it selfish to buy something for my personal enjoyment? Since when?

And maybe you didn't know, but there are several threads on GAF where we gift and receive free stuff, usually Steam games, but also console games and related merchandise. How's that for our selfish nature?
 
D

Deku Tree

Member
So if your console and username get banned will you have to re-buy your entire game library?

So I can't bring my favorite fighting game to play at my friends house?
 
JimmyRustler

JimmyRustler

Gold Member
MrHicks said:
used books
used cars
used chairs
used beds
used cd's
used movies
used comics
used ........


ALL an acceptable part of society
BUT......with videogames you have a whole ridiculous defense force going "your not supporting the devs!!!! i always buy new for the devs!"

such anti consumer stockholm syndrome
Click to expand...
No other industry is in any way compareable with the games industry when it comes to this. NONE!

@topic: Banning used games will come sooner or later. It's something you cannot change and it's something one has to understand. If I had to easy access to used games when I was little like I have now I would have been drowning in videogames back then and wouldn't have bought a single one new.
 
T

The Abominable Snowman

Member
MrHicks said:
used books
used cars
used chairs
used beds
used cd's
used movies
used comics
used ........


ALL an acceptable part of society
BUT......with videogames you have a whole ridiculous defense force going "your not supporting the devs!!!! i always buy new for the devs!"

such anti consumer stockholm syndrome
Click to expand...

All the above aside the furniture and cars (Which have no purpose in this debate. who buys used beds anyway? how dreadfully tacky) have moved more and more to non-resellable digital formats.

Used game buying/selling is often just GameStop getting over on uninformed consumers, and a couple dozen internet citizens who sell their used game on trade forums and craigslist. The effect here will be negligible for consumers, but huge for pubs/devs.
 
N

Nappuccino

Member
Good.

I'm tired of hearing about companies going bankrupt because piracy and used sales.

Now I'll just have to hear it about one.
 
B

BlackIronCount

Member
so if I have multiple console and didn't have internet connection, I must buy multiple game dsc

and no longer I can borrow my friend's game.

if it's like this ,damn i don't think i want a console anymore.
 
JimmyRustler

JimmyRustler

Gold Member
BlackIronCount said:
so if I have multiple console and didn't have internet connection, I must buy multiple game dsc

and no longer I can borrow my friend's game.

if it's like this ,damn i don't think i want a console anymore.
Click to expand...
It's most certainly going to be tied to your account.
Though it is a good question on how they're gonna handle it if you don't have internet.
 
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I won't buy any console that doesn't allow the use of preowned games. I doubt Sony would actually implement this, unless they want this to be their last console.
 
D

dragonelite

Member
IdreamofHIME said:
It would be fucking hilarious if the console crash came next gen because consumers couldn't buy used games.
All these years of used games being blamed for low sales and then when they finally cut out the used section consoles sales take a nose dive.
With Vita, 3DS and WiiU sales under-performing, pissing of the consumers is just what the industry should not be doing....

..but I hope they do, coz I can't wait for the crash.
Click to expand...

Devs going back to pc master race development...... :)
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
This is the only thing that would make me go Wii U/PC only next gen.

Screw this anti-consumer BS.

At that point I would also actively cheer for the crash of the industry.

Also, would be hilarious to see Gamespot's reaction to this. Would they even carry these companies' consoles any more?
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
navanman said:
Whether this comes with the PS4 or not, its coming down the line in the future with a digital-download consoles, entertainment systems.

You can't resell Steam games, PSN or XBL games/content or iOS/Android content.
Click to expand...

Except those games are much cheaper and have frequent huge sales.
 
A

Aeana

Member
I guess this means that Sony is giving up on Japan entirely, because the Japanese video game market is driven by the used market. The reason people can afford to buy the stupidly expensive new games is because they can sell their old stuff for really good prices. It's so firmly engrained in the market, I'm not sure it would survive if this became standard.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
The Abominable Snowman said:
Hyperbole. Most consumers buy used just because its there, and often cheaper. The same consumers would still buy games. You might feel some type of way about it, but I doubt the average consumer does.
Click to expand...

At the same time some people might take less risks on other games because they won't be able to trade it in if they get tired of it quickly.
 
D

duckroll

Member
moai said:
Maybe this could be used to fight piracy?
Click to expand...

How? If a game system is already hacked to be able to play pirated games, it would also circumvent any sort of protection this offers. If a system is not hacked, then it wouldn't be able to play pirated games, with or without this system.

The patent clearly indicates the use of the technology. Suggesting anything otherwise seems silly.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Thinking more about this, I guess it would give me more reason to sit out this gen and go back and catch up on all the classics going from now all the way back to the NES. Plenty there to keep me busy forever.
 
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