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Nintendo shows updated Zelda-timeline in Japanese Newsletter, puts left part on sale

T

Third Strike

Member
Madao said:
wait, in the earlier email, the 3DS games were right after ALttP and now they're after LA?

they are even retconing their own mail now.
Click to expand...

It was always the same Link in ALttP and LA. The Hyrule Historia later indicated that the Link in the Oracle games was also the same Link from the SNES/Game Boy games. It's been known for some time now that ALBW was after LA. And actually (ALBW spoilers):
There's even the possibility that one of the NPC in ALBW is actually the Link from ALttP.
 
C

CassSept

Member
Griss said:
I'll always blame my fellow Zelda fans for this idiotic timeline as I'm convinced Nintendo only did it to satisfy a decade+ of fan whining for one.

The games should be largely self-contained legends. The only enjoyable thing about the timelines is that they are at least somewhat artistically linked after the split. Other than that it's clear that this is a bunch of 'after-the-fact' retcon nonsense.

A much better solution would have been to simply say 'Here are the games that are linked, here are those that aren't.' OoT->MM->WW->PH etc are clearly linked. Almost everything else feels like trying too hard.
Click to expand...

Nearly every single Zelda game references at least one other. That self-contained legends thing is so stupid since there was some sort of continuity all the way since Zelda 2.
 
A

ash_ag

Member
deriks said:
In japanese, A Link Between Worlds is basically A Link to the Past 2, but in the timeline happens after two games... Oh, Nintendo

Still preffer the the Timeline V2.0
Click to expand...

That's because Oracles and Link's Awakening feature the same Link as ALttP. ALBW is obviously many, many years later. It's named A Link to the Past 2 because it's related to ALttP, rather than its more minor sequels.
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
deriks said:
In japanese, A Link Between Worlds is basically A Link to the Past 2, but in the timeline happens after two games... Oh, Nintendo

Still preffer the the Timeline V2.0
Click to expand...

Something being numbered doesn't necessarily mean that they come right after each other, I mean look at MGS and DMC.
 
C

Calamari41

41 > 38
Thread title made me think that they blacked out the left part of the timeline and were going to charge people to reveal it.
 
A

Alex_Mexico

Member
Who here takes this timeline dead serious? I always got the feeling Nintendo made the timeline only after people started asking for it first. Before Wind Waker there was little to no reason to believe there was any effort being done about linking all these games together. Only after people started pestering did they sat down and try to piece them together is some vague way. The third rift after OoT is a giveaway. Everyone and their mother said there were two but Nintendo says "no, you're all wrong, it's been three all the time" as if they knew their shit from day one.

Zelda games nowadays have stagnated when it comes to story and even in its golden days Nintendo never cared too much either. How many times can Light thwart Darkness and save the princess? I love Zelda games, don't get me wrong, but I don't play it for its epic and involving narrative (which it lacks). If they don't care enough why should I about this convoluted and pulled-out-of-their-ass timeline?

With that said; I cant wait to hear more about Zelda U.
 
R

redcrayon

Member
Just to clarify, of the three timelines following OOT, is it:

on the left: Hero loses, leading to LTTP
In the middle: hero wins, child Link heads into Termina after OOT
on the right: hero wins, adult link lives on in Hyrule after OOT leading to WW much later.

I don't understand, how does the world get flooded for WW if the hero is victorious?
 
G

Griss

Member
CassSept said:
Nearly every single Zelda game references at least one other. That self-contained legends thing is so stupid since there was some sort of continuity all the way since Zelda 2.
Click to expand...

The fact that certain games reference each other or are linked (which I acknowledged) is no reason at all to slap them all into a big nonsensical timeline. Take Minish Cap. Why does it come after Skyward Sword? Sure I get that Four Swords should follow it (it shows the origin of the four sword), but then why on earth do those two lead into OoT? What means it should be there rather than somewhere else?

redcrayon said:
Just to clarify, of the three timelines following OOT, is it:

on the left: Hero loses, leading to LTTP
In the middle: hero wins, child Link heads into Termina after OOT
on the right: hero wins, adult link lives on in Hyrule after OOT leading to WW much later.

I don't understand, how does the world get flooded for WW if the hero is victorious?
Click to expand...

My impression was that Ganon was sealed away for a long time, Link and Zelda lived normal lives and died and then Ganon escaped his bonds, came back and there was no one to fight him. So the people prayed to the gods and they flooded the world. That's off the top of my head, might be wrong.
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Madao said:
sorry to break it for you but
the OoT/MM Link dies and becomes the skeleton that teaches you the hiddens kills in TP. they could always retcon that later but as of now that's how he ends up.
Click to expand...

I know, but none of that really prevents my unrealistic scenario. The Hero's Shade is an adult version of that character, so nothing stops MM Link from coming back and having another adventure. It would just have to be framed in a way that doesn't drastically affect or contradict TP or his final depiction.

Again though I'd rather they just having something new and keep the connections between games as light as possible. Zelda games don't need big stories, just well crafted tales that compliment the world and gameplay they designed for that specific installment.
 
K

KingWool

Banned
Griss said:
The fact that certain games reference each other or are linked (which I acknowledged) is no reason at all to slap them all into a big nonsensical timeline. Take Minish Cap. Why does it come after Skyward Sword? Sure I get that Four Swords should follow it (it shows the origin of the four sword), but then why on earth do those two lead into OoT? What means it should be there rather than somewhere else?
Click to expand...

Or the Timeline before OOT isn't fully flesh out yet ;)
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
Silvard said:
Can anyone please explain this?
Click to expand...
This is what that part looks like in Europe:
18318_front.jpg

4762_front.jpg

18323_front.jpg
Click to expand...
The top one is referring only to the bonus four swords part. There was a remake of sorts released as a free DSiWare title to celebrate the Zelda 25th Anniversary.

ArchedThunder said:
No, I'm pretty sure the joke was that the box art for Four Swords also shows ALttP because they were on one cartridge.
Click to expand...
That was it.
 
R

redcrayon

Member
Griss said:
The fact that certain games reference each other or are linked (which I acknowledged) is no reason at all to slap them all into a big nonsensical timeline. Take Minish Cap. Why does it come after Skyward Sword? Sure I get that Four Swords should follow it (it shows the origin of the four sword), but then why on earth do those two lead into OoT? What means it should be there rather than somewhere else?



My impression was that Ganon was sealed away for a long time, Link and Zelda lived normal lives and died and then Ganon escaped his bonds, came back and there was no one to fight him. So the people prayed to the gods and they flooded the world. That's off the top of my head, might be wrong.
Click to expand...
Thanks! It's been ages since I played WW, I had forgotten that the gods flooded everything and not Ganon.
 
S

SolarKnight

Member
Griss said:
The fact that certain games reference each other or are linked (which I acknowledged) is no reason at all to slap them all into a big nonsensical timeline. Take Minish Cap. Why does it come after Skyward Sword? Sure I get that Four Swords should follow it (it shows the origin of the four sword), but then why on earth do those two lead into OoT? What means it should be there rather than somewhere else?
Click to expand...

Because they officially stated that Minish Cap was the earliest of Link's adventures when that game came out, but then they made Skyward Sword as THE origin story for the franchise placing it even further behind. There doesn't need to be any complicated reasoning for most of these placings nor do the games need to be directly related to the games placed before or after them in every case.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Griss said:
The fact that certain games reference each other or are linked (which I acknowledged) is no reason at all to slap them all into a big nonsensical timeline. Take Minish Cap. Why does it come after Skyward Sword? Sure I get that Four Swords should follow it (it shows the origin of the four sword), but then why on earth do those two lead into OoT? What means it should be there rather than somewhere else?
Click to expand...

For one, the legendary hero in the story told in Minish Cap does not have a green cap, the game has an explanation for why Link has a green cap in every game after it.

At least did used to make sense until Skyward Sword, in which Link has a green cap, so Minish Cap couldn't possibly be the origin of the green cap anymore.
 
P

Poltergust

Member
redcrayon said:
Just to clarify, of the three timelines following OOT, is it:

on the left: Hero loses, leading to LTTP
In the middle: hero wins, child Link heads into Termina after OOT
on the right: hero wins, adult link lives on in Hyrule after OOT leading to WW much later.

I don't understand, how does the world get flooded for WW if the hero is victorious?
Click to expand...

Adult Link disappears from the timeline because he got sent back to his own time.

Which is probably why no Link showed up when the flooding of Hyrule happened.
 
C

Coffee Dog

Banned
The entire left part of the timeline is so stupid. I mean, I get it, if those games came after twilight princess like originally intended, there isn't much room for zelda games anymore, and now with the old games shoved onto a fanfiction third timeline, there's room after twilight princess and FSA for new games with the newly revived ganon. it's just stupid to pull a third timeline out of nowhere.
 
G

Griss

Member
SolarKnight said:
Because they officially stated that Minish Cap was the earliest of Link's adventures when that game came out, but then they made Skyward Sword as THE origin story for the franchise placing it even further behind. There doesn't need to be any complicated reasoning for most of these placings nor do the games need to be directly related to the games placed before or after them in every case.
Click to expand...

Your comment basically encapsulates why I think the timeline is worthless. 'THIS is the origin of the Legend of Zelda! Well, until the next game!' They don't think about the timeline while developing these games, they make the game and then stuff the game into the timeline wherever.
 
D

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Griss said:
They don't think about the timeline while developing these games, they make the game and then stuff the game into the timeline wherever.
Click to expand...

Who said they did and why is this a problem? Lucas also didn't have The Force Awakens in mind when he wrote A New Hope in 1977. Big deal.
 
C

Coffee Dog

Banned
Smiles and Cries said:
we still do not know how Zelda U fits in sheesh
Click to expand...

It's probably coming after Four Swords Adventures. Four Swords Adventures ends with Ganon being revived and getting his trident (which makes you think it would lead into LTTP but retcons lol :D). This leaves a big blank space in the timeline for a future Zelda game with a newly revived ganon just waiting to get unsealed.
 
N

nubbe

Member
Griss said:
Your comment basically encapsulates why I think the timeline is worthless. 'THIS is the origin of the Legend of Zelda! Well, until the next game!' They don't think about the timeline while developing these games, they make the game and then stuff the game into the timeline wherever.
Click to expand...

Kinda, but most of the recent games have references to the hero of time
 
B

Berordn

Member
Coffee Dog said:
It's probably coming after Four Swords Adventures. Four Swords Adventures ends with Ganon being revived and getting his trident (which makes you think it would lead into LTTP but retcons lol :D). This leaves a big blank space in the timeline for a future Zelda game with a newly revived ganon just waiting to get unsealed.
Click to expand...

The bits of Hyrule Field that we saw in the E3 trailer seem to resemble OOT & TP's overworld as well, but that might not have any bearing on the final game's placement.
 
P

PMS341

Member
Griss said:
Your comment basically encapsulates why I think the timeline is worthless. 'THIS is the origin of the Legend of Zelda! Well, until the next game!' They don't think about the timeline while developing these games, they make the game and then stuff the game into the timeline wherever.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm sure Nintendo wasn't thinking about SS too much in 2004, considering TP wasn't even out yet. That being said, it sounds like you never beat SS (or played it?), because the placement in the timeline is incredibly important to the story/locale/etc.
 
S

shauntu

Member
I think of it like this. OOT showed 2 timelines:


  • [/
  • Young Link's era, where Gannondorf tries to rise to power and is foiled by the royal family with future information provided by Young Link. Gannondorf's eventual execution is botched, as shown in Twilight Princess.
  • Adult Link's era, where Gannondorf had taken over causing mass destruction; but where he was eventually defeated by Adult Link with Adult Zelda taking over rule of the land. HOWEVER, Adult Link no longer exists, having been sent back in time and with this timeline 'no longer continuing from when Young Link slept'. Hence, when Gannondorf returns, there is no Link to challenge him, and eventually the world is flooded instead to keep Gannondorf in check.
    LIST]

    So where does the 3rd timeline come from? I have to say, the current 'official' timeline kind of fluffs it.

    For me, the Four Swords Adventures being the Imprisoning War, then leading to Link to the Past and the Link Between Worlds, makes a lot of sense -- that whole chain focuses on the split between Light World and Dark World starting with the Twilight Realm in Twilight Princess!

    I would also suggest that the original Legend of Zelda/Zelda 2 pair can follow from The Wind Waker as an alternate fork from Phantom Hourglass; a fork taking place a long time later when the oceans finally recede in the original Hyrule location, while Zelda 2 expands to land originally still being colonized in Spirit Tracks.

    Not sure where Oracle games can go though. Probably the tail end of the Twilight timeline, assuming the witches lead long lives and they only revive a mindless beast due to Yuga's merger already having messed with the connection between form and mind.
 
R

Real Hero

Member
Griss said:
Your comment basically encapsulates why I think the timeline is worthless. 'THIS is the origin of the Legend of Zelda! Well, until the next game!' They don't think about the timeline while developing these games, they make the game and then stuff the game into the timeline wherever.
Click to expand...

I don't see a problem with any of that tbh, it's just a neat way of slightly connecting the games.
 
M

Mael

Member
I don't know why but I always thought FSA was NOT the end of the child timeline.
Just checked online (because my copy of historia is really far) and yep.
It never made any sense to put it here and now I need a copy of TFH to still have the whole timeline in my collection...
DAMN IT!
 
1

10k

Banned
The only time I'd give a damn about this timeline picture being updated is if it was updated with the new Zelda box art and official name. This timeline is a pointless, convoluted mess lol.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
SolarKnight said:
Because they officially stated that Minish Cap was the earliest of Link's adventures when that game came out, but then they made Skyward Sword as THE origin story for the franchise placing it even further behind. There doesn't need to be any complicated reasoning for most of these placings nor do the games need to be directly related to the games placed before or after them in every case.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile the Hyrule Historia manga has the TRUE official beginning, and thus the perfect vector for yet another prequel game!
 
M

Mr-Joker

Banned
So Triforce Heroes is part of the timeline? Yeah no not in my eyes it isn't that game was shit and doesn't deserve to have the honour of being part of the timeline.
 
M

Mael

Member
shauntu said:
I think of it like this. OOT showed 2 timelines:


  • [/
  • Young Link's era, where Gannondorf tries to rise to power and is foiled by the royal family with future information provided by Young Link. Gannondorf's eventual execution is botched, as shown in Twilight Princess.
  • Adult Link's era, where Gannondorf had taken over causing mass destruction; but where he was eventually defeated by Adult Link with Adult Zelda taking over rule of the land. HOWEVER, Adult Link no longer exists, having been sent back in time and with this timeline 'no longer continuing from when Young Link slept'. Hence, when Gannondorf returns, there is no Link to challenge him, and eventually the world is flooded instead to keep Gannondorf in check.
    LIST]

    So where does the 3rd timeline come from? I have to say, the current 'official' timeline kind of fluffs it.

    For me, the Four Swords Adventures being the Imprisoning War, then leading to Link to the Past and the Link Between Worlds, makes a lot of sense -- that whole chain focuses on the split between Light World and Dark World starting with the Twilight Realm in Twilight Princess!

    I would also suggest that the original Legend of Zelda/Zelda 2 pair can follow from The Wind Waker as an alternate fork from Phantom Hourglass; a fork taking place a long time later when the oceans finally recede in the original Hyrule location, while Zelda 2 expands to land originally still being colonized in Spirit Tracks.

    Not sure where Oracle games can go though. Probably the tail end of the Twilight timeline, assuming the witches lead long lives and they only revive a mindless beast due to Yuga's merger already having messed with the connection between form and mind.
Click to expand...


  • I get the similarity between the Twilight Realm and the Dark world however they're pretty different.
    TP can't be before Alttp because Ganondorf didn't discover the triforce in TP, he was sent to the twilight Realm and the only time he got out he was killed.
    The events leading to Alttp cannot happen in TP.

    The oracle games have clear references to LA and Alttp so both Oracle games and LA fit nicely just after Alttp.
    I'm not saying I have a better place for Alttp than your or the official timeline but yours is more inconsistent with what's happening in the games.
 
M

MrSaturn99

Member
Griss said:
I'll always blame my fellow Zelda fans for this idiotic timeline as I'm convinced Nintendo only did it to satisfy a decade+ of fan whining for one.

The games should be largely self-contained legends. The only enjoyable thing about the timelines is that they are at least somewhat artistically linked after the split. Other than that it's clear that this is a bunch of 'after-the-fact' retcon nonsense.

A much better solution would have been to simply say 'Here are the games that are linked, here are those that aren't.' OoT->MM->WW->PH etc are clearly linked. Almost everything else feels like trying too hard.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
F

Feffe

Member
redcrayon said:
Just to clarify, of the three timelines following OOT, is it:

on the left: Hero loses, leading to LTTP
In the middle: hero wins, child Link heads into Termina after OOT
on the right: hero wins, adult link lives on in Hyrule after OOT leading to WW much later.

I don't understand, how does the world get flooded for WW if the hero is victorious?
Click to expand...
The second and third timeline co-exist in the same (multi-)universe (while the first one is a "what-if" scenario): at the end of Ocarina of Time Zelda sends Link back in time (actually, to the other timeline) but doing so she doesn't rewrite time, she actually creates two timelines. In the first one Link doesn't exist anymore, because she just sent him back, and thus when Ganondorf escapes many years later there's no hero to stop him (backstory of WW). In the other one Link, "escaping" the first timeline and returning a child, warns the King of Hyrule about Ganondorf's plan (backstory of TP) and then goes looking for Navi in the forest (backstory of MM).
The Triforce trascends this division: TP!Link has the Triforce mark on his hands, even though he never gets it, because WW!Link actually obtained the Triforce (of Courage) in the other timeline.
 
R

redcrayon

Member
Feffe said:
The second and third timeline co-exist in the same (multi-)universe (while the first one is a "what-if" scenario): at the end of Ocarina of Time Zelda sends Link back in time (actually, to the other timeline) but doing so she doesn't rewrite time, she actually creates two timelines. In the first one Link doesn't exist anymore, because she just sent him back, and thus when Ganondorf escapes many years later there's no hero to stop him (backstory of WW). In the other one Link, "escaping" the first timeline and returning a child, warns the King of Hyrule about Ganondorf's plan (backstory of TP) and then goes looking for Navi in the forest (backstory of MM).
The Triforce trascends this division: TP!Link has the Triforce mark on his hands, even though he never gets it, because WW!Link actually obtained the Triforce (of Courage) in the other timeline.
Click to expand...
Thanks to everyone who took the time to explain this to me :)
 
Haruka

Haruka

Member
Griss said:
Your comment basically encapsulates why I think the timeline is worthless. 'THIS is the origin of the Legend of Zelda! Well, until the next game!' They don't think about the timeline while developing these games, they make the game and then stuff the game into the timeline wherever.
Click to expand...

A pretty big good example of that is Zelda II's backstory establishing why every princess of Hyrule is named Zelda. Except in the timeline you have like 10+ games which take place before that backstory occurred, so in all those cases it was just coincidence there was a princess Zelda.
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
shauntu said:
So where does the 3rd timeline come from? I have to say, the current 'official' timeline kind of fluffs it.
Click to expand...

It's a timeline created from Link dying in OoT. It's not directly show in in OoT, but with time travel shenanigans anything is possible. It's also fun to think of it as implementing gameplay into the story itself, players can die so what if the story continued after you died when playing the game?
 
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