Jaded Alyx
Member
There's also Kuju who develop the various Art Academy games.
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Nintendo and the lack of western collaborations/partnerships.
- Thread starter Trago
- Start date
As Nirolak said, a lot of western third parties aren't doing anything strategically that would sync with the kind of partnerships Nintendo offers, which are for "mid-tier" games or low-million-sellers, the kind of games western third parties seem to be killing off to make way for the 8-digit megahits.
That said, since the third parties are phasing out their smaller games, there's ripe position for Nintendo to help "revive" some of those old IPs, like Beyond Good and Evil or Prince of Persia, say.
That said, since the third parties are phasing out their smaller games, there's ripe position for Nintendo to help "revive" some of those old IPs, like Beyond Good and Evil or Prince of Persia, say.
iHaunter
Member
What does that even mean...I mean really.
Well Nintendo went to most of the big AAA publishers and got them to sign on for at least one game. People don't seem to realize the decision making process always comes back to money. If the Switch continues to sell like hot cakes and remains hard to get a hold of these publishers will support the console. For instance Bethesda is releasing Skyrim for the Switch, if it sells million+ copies they will bring something else to the platform because there is significant money to be made.
The reality is most gamers and video fanatics do not understand how the industry works. The publishers choose what games they fund, what platforms the game will be released on, and how long they will let the developer work on a game. If the Switch becomes a very profitable console for them they will support it, even if the game has to be downgraded or certain games do not get funded over others because it cannot be released on every platform.
The reality is most gamers and video fanatics do not understand how the industry works. The publishers choose what games they fund, what platforms the game will be released on, and how long they will let the developer work on a game. If the Switch becomes a very profitable console for them they will support it, even if the game has to be downgraded or certain games do not get funded over others because it cannot be released on every platform.
xochipiltontli
Member
What? Acclaim, THQ, EA, Rareware, Retro Studios, Silicon Nights, LucasArts, and DMA Design all worked on Nintendo systems during his time at Nintendo, largely because of his negotiations (especially in the case of EA), and all but DMA Design (whose work on the N64 was a mess due to conflicting interests between NoJ and NoA) continued to work with Nintendo until he stepped down (or until the developers were dissolved in some cases). Given the fact that Nintendo's policies during their NES/SNES years had alienated many third party developers in Japan for the N64 and caused them to go with Sony, the fact that Nintendo was able to keep so many western third party developers from 1996-2001 was a miracle and can largely be attributed to Howard Lincoln. Even coming out of their fall from grace during the 5th generation, the Gamecube launched with a high profile Star Wars game, and ended up getting Star Fox Adventures, Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, all EA sports games, etc. Rare and Retro's relationship with Nintendo can almost singlehandedly be credited to him, and while he did do a lot of shitty stuff (don't get me wrong), I think Nintendos relationships with those companies collapsing right after he stepped down says something about how no one else at Nintendo seemed to care about maintaining them.
He was oddly powerful for NoA, and was able to better serve the western market as a result. This was the main reason for Sega's success in the early 90s.
i do really hope someone like Ubisoft sees the Switch as a viable place for a great 'service' game like R6 Siege, For Honor or Overwatch.
maybe something that uses the Nintendo IP
if you don't have anything to add, go ahead and skip the thread
maybe something that uses the Nintendo IP
if you don't have anything to add, go ahead and skip the thread
Astral Dog
Member
The Scorpio is hoing to fix that
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
While true, they'd be better off reviving some of their own IPs like F-Zero, Wave Race, Star Tropics, a traditional Metroid (2D and/or Prime), Earthbound etc. etc.
Not mutually exclusive of course, reviving some third party IPs that would appeal to their base more than the mainstream AAA stuff would be nice as well.
There's just not much market for that mainstream AAA stuff on Nintendo--people that like those games clearly have other consoles given Nintendo hasn't gotten many of them in over a decade, they are also largely graphics-driven games so even if they came they'd be severely downgraded compared to the version on their other system(s) and really only appeal to the portable gamers who want them on the go.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
With respect to western games that appeal to the Nintendo audience, indie developers are where the action is at. That Nintendo snatched up Snipperclips as an exclusive is the strongest sign yet that they are willing to make aggressive overtures to western developers that are likelier to have a higher return on investment than throwing a money-hat on a timed exclusive from one of the big players. (Yes, timed: look up ZombiU and Lego City Undercover if you're not sure how these agreements tend to work and what the bargaining position of the western publishers is. Or one of the most Nintendo-tailored third-party titles of the generation, the formerly exclusive Rayman Legends.)
Contrary to the perception in the long-serving segments of the core market where multiple console ownership in the norm (i.e. NeoGAF), there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the Nintendo audience (core or casual) doesn't overlap that much with the central interests of western AAA (core or casual). Timed exclusives or day-one parity from developers like Michel Ancel, the rare case of someone in the western AAA fold who caters to similar design values, are probably the best we can hope for until there is reason for anyone to believe that the big western IPs sell on Nintendo devices even at the best of times.
The last time a clear precursor to western console tastes moved Nintendo systems was GoldenEye on N64. Notice how that was developed by a second party, and remind yourself that with the massive scale of development costs and personnel in the western AAA space nowadays, what Rare did in the mid-1990s is not something you just repeat by throwing a lot of money at Next Level or Tantalus or Monster Games. That strategy no longer competes; those studios are better off playing to an audience Nintendo knows it has (the way Next Level made a hit out of Luigi's Mansion in Japan). You can't rely on the GoldenEye-to-Halo-to-CoD demographic to come back, and it's not the responsibility of Nintendo's active customers to change their buying habits to bring them back.
Contrary to the perception in the long-serving segments of the core market where multiple console ownership in the norm (i.e. NeoGAF), there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the Nintendo audience (core or casual) doesn't overlap that much with the central interests of western AAA (core or casual). Timed exclusives or day-one parity from developers like Michel Ancel, the rare case of someone in the western AAA fold who caters to similar design values, are probably the best we can hope for until there is reason for anyone to believe that the big western IPs sell on Nintendo devices even at the best of times.
The last time a clear precursor to western console tastes moved Nintendo systems was GoldenEye on N64. Notice how that was developed by a second party, and remind yourself that with the massive scale of development costs and personnel in the western AAA space nowadays, what Rare did in the mid-1990s is not something you just repeat by throwing a lot of money at Next Level or Tantalus or Monster Games. That strategy no longer competes; those studios are better off playing to an audience Nintendo knows it has (the way Next Level made a hit out of Luigi's Mansion in Japan). You can't rely on the GoldenEye-to-Halo-to-CoD demographic to come back, and it's not the responsibility of Nintendo's active customers to change their buying habits to bring them back.
I think this says it best. The large Western 3rd parties are operating on a scale that prices collaboration out of Nintendo's reach. They do work with some smaller Western devs semi-regularly, but that doesn't excite people. Nintendo is also apprehensive with investing in western devs. Maybe Silicon Knights and the higher employee turnover rates scared them off. Didn't they also squander the talent at NST?
I think going forward the best we can hope for regarding the big Western devs is ports of their games with the odd Nintendo costume implemented, although it didn't help the Gamecube much. I would like to see them create or invest in more western studios. NoA and NoE really should be given the chance, even if NCL oversees everything they do.
RareFantasy64
Member
As much as I love what Retro Studios and Monolith Soft have done with Nintendo (I believe these two devs are 1st party so I understand they aren't exactly the same situation as Rare was), I don't think anything has ever filled the void Nintendo developed losing Rare. I also understand Rare hasn't exactly been the same level of an asset for MS that they were for Nintendo during the SNES/N64 days and had Rare stayed with Nintendo it's hard to say if they still would have been that sort of an asset. I just really miss Nintendo having that ally that makes exclusive games for them that are just as good (in some cases better) as Nintendo's output
Where would Nintendo and the N64 have been without Rare?
The majority of issues with these teams were already in motion before Lincoln even stepped down. Rare already had their feet out the door LONG before Lincoln's retirement.
Which policies are those exactly? If you're talking about things like limiting the number of games per year by publisher, that was an NoA decision. As was the censorship issue. Those issues were not present in Japan.
If your game wasn't using FMV or CD-quality soundtracks, N64 was the most powerful console of the generation, so that had a lot to do with it. The rest was Lincoln building personal relationships with him, not with the corporation he worked for. Yamauchi let him run American operations without oversight, which means that by the time they would have realized everything was going to come tumbling down, it was too late. Iwata salvaged what little he could before he took his presidency, but it was on the wall a lot earlier than that.
Metroid Prime can't be attributed to Lincoln, that happened after Iwata stepped in to salvage the tire-fire Retro was under Lincoln.
Retro Studios, Lincoln's favour to his best friends at the former Iguana Entertainment, had to be salvaged from the wreckage that they were under Spangenburg's leadership before the focus on Metroid Prime ever happened. Lincoln was responsible for it being a disaster.
No, it says that those relationships were entirely dependent on him and no one could have salvaged them. You can't fix up a house when it's already on fire.
He WAS NoA, for better or worse. Mostly worse. But his relationships were with him and him alone and most of them were falling apart before he announced his retirement. I'd even wager that, when his practices were analyzed by NCL, they pushed him out.
Lincoln's behaviour is the reason that NCL demanded oversight on NoA's operations in the first place.
Ninja Scooter
Member
For a western developer I'd imagine it'd be hard to tie yourselves to Nintendo (barring some kind of sweet heart deal) when so much of your potential current audience is on PS/XBox/PC. That's potentially leaving a lot of money on the table.
Unless that developer is also a publisher, it makes no difference to them; a paycheque's a paycheque.
RareFantasy64
Member
Nintendo has seemed to develop some promising relationships with a few western devs as of late. The team behind the Luigi's Mansion sequel (didn't they do something else for Nintendo AND pitch a Metroid game?) and Tantalus
VendettaRed07
Member
Problem is that even Western Nintendo fans are generally interested in Japanese third party games. But people who buy Nintendo systems in Japan probably wouldn't go for whatever the Western developers made so it doesn't really work the other way around.
I do think Nintendo should go and acquire more second party studios in the west to fill the void but it's unlikely they'll get the sort of deals or partnerships with independent Western developers that they do with Japanese ones
I do think Nintendo should go and acquire more second party studios in the west to fill the void but it's unlikely they'll get the sort of deals or partnerships with independent Western developers that they do with Japanese ones
Mushroomer25
Member
I have to wonder if the sales failure of GTA: Chinatown Wars made Nintendo hyper-cynical about Western partnerships in general. They got an amazing game in the biggest franchise in the world, and it flopped at retail. If that's how the market responds to a best case turnout of a western partnership - why bother?
RareFantasy64
Member
Was a GTA game friendly/appealing to the DS userbase though?
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Indeed. We had a re-birthing ritual in my friends hot tub. Im now a level five laser lotus in my Buddhist community.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
OH, I didn't know Go was developed by a western studio.
Living the Dream
Member
Blame Iwata. When he obtained his power, he turned NOA into a marketing only firm and cut ties with all the Western Nintendo developers.
Kyle8497
Member
Western devs want their game on the biggest markets, thus Xbox and PS4 because people want the latest and greatest. Due to the fact that they make the games for these consoles, they utilize the graphical capabilities on them that would otherwise not be capable on the Switch.
Then, devs also probably do not want to spend more time and money porting a game to a graphically lesser console that they assume doesn't have a good enough market for their games.
Then, devs also probably do not want to spend more time and money porting a game to a graphically lesser console that they assume doesn't have a good enough market for their games.
bahamut zero
Member
What.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It absolutely matters. Getting your game on a platform with the widest possible audience gives it a much bigger chance to succeed and gives a developer much better bargaining power when it comes time to create their next title.
While I doubt that it was a great fit for the DS audience at the time, that's not really the lesson to take away from CW not doing well. It flopped way harder on PSP and mobile, which points to more that the audience for GTA doesn't care for the overhead perspective. For most people out there, GTA started with 3.
thepenguin55
Member
So of those 5 companies I've heard of 1 (Retro). Nintendo doesn't do enough with well known or beloved western developers (outside of Retro). How great would a Double Fine and Nintendo collaboration be?
This problem started on the N64 and only got worse. Wii was a success with created some unique opportunities for western third parties as well, but Nintendo had to make the system a success first. Wii U showed that trying to solve this problem first isn't going to work for Nintendo, at the launch of the Wii U they tried to gain third parties back so much harder that they thought it would be a good idea to spread out their software lineup even more than they usually do. Nintendo does need stronger western support, and ties with western developers especially, but trying to court western publishers at the expense of their own software efforts is a waste of time.
Papacheeks
Banned
There's a huge difference in courting Western publishers and having a good long lasting relationship. If Nintendo lended the olive branch and funded a bunch of exclusives from Western developers with a co-publishing deal with the parent publisher of the studio. A lot would change for Nintendo for the better.
Mushroomer25
Member
Did any of the GTA games do particularly well on handheld? Vice City Stories was well regarded, but didn't seem to make the PSP a household name.
I still think Nintendo could look to Chinatown Wars as a particularly major example of a Western-styled game failing to move on their platform despite all best efforts.
IsntChrisL
Member
Nintendo has done a really shitty job at seeking out western games on their hardware over the last 6 or 7 years. I love Nintendo games but they've really fallen off when it comes to western games. Rare used to make up for a lot of those gaps but Nintendo never bothered to fill that void after they sold their shares.
Retro is great but they don't have nearly the same output that Rare did back then. Japanese games can be great but there is a lot more out there that Nintendo systems have been missing for a long time now.
Retro is great but they don't have nearly the same output that Rare did back then. Japanese games can be great but there is a lot more out there that Nintendo systems have been missing for a long time now.
Another thread where "western" means "AAA multimillion-dollar budget game made by one of Rockstar/Activision/Ubi/EA". Nintendo is much better off collaborating with smaller and indie western devs, and I do think they do this, though not to the extent I'd personally like. Much more interesting games coming out of those devs than the "AAA"s, anyways. Would love to see collabs with companies like Sumo Digital, Obsidian (Nintendo would whip their QA team into shape), Housemarque, Insomniac, Codemasters, whoever made Trackmania, etc.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Whoa, is this your own take on Nintendo's history in the US? I've never heard this idea of Lincoln actively sabotaging the company and Iwata being the saviour of Nintendo in the US before. If there's an in-depth article about all this, I'd love to read it.
LCS was quite successful, but VCS was a sharp drop-off, to the point where it got its price permanently slashed by $20 a mere two months after it released. That did have the external issue of releasing right when piracy on the PSP was starting to really take off, so the odds were against it right away.
Tarextherex
Banned
Honestly even on the Japanese side they could have done a lot better. Back then third parties had legit reasons to not but their games on Nintendo(power, cartridges/mini-cds) but Wii U had enough power to run anything that wasn't a PS4/X1 exclusive game that was demanding/would end up releasing years later but it simply didn't get anything. It's like Japanese support died FF7 went to PS1 and Western support died with Rare/when Microsoft took their console FPS audience with Halo, but they never quite recovered from it
Well, a good start would be refostering an audience for Western games. Nintendo never bothered to refill Rare's empty spot properly and they stupidly neglected genres that got really popular like FPS etc.. Without a foundation of Western 1st party games I don't see Western partners having much confidence in finding a potential audience for their games.
After Iwata announced that they were open for M&A I hoped for Nintendo to welcome more Western developers into their family, to add new ideas and enhance the expertise. Unfortunately none of that happened despite countless opportunities to buy up talented teams like those many studios during the bankruptcy of THQ. Perhaps the new leadership has a better vision for Nintendo and finally understands the strategic disadvantage they have ignored for too long...
After Iwata announced that they were open for M&A I hoped for Nintendo to welcome more Western developers into their family, to add new ideas and enhance the expertise. Unfortunately none of that happened despite countless opportunities to buy up talented teams like those many studios during the bankruptcy of THQ. Perhaps the new leadership has a better vision for Nintendo and finally understands the strategic disadvantage they have ignored for too long...
InfiniteCombo
Banned
Absolutely. Actually, my answer is slightly more nuanced than that.
As someone who already owns other, more powerful platforms to play Western games on, I don't care what the Switch does.
As someone who absolutely wants to see the Switch succeed in a big way, I sure as hell hope they do.
killatopak
Member
This goes all the way back to the ps1 era where they shunned most developers.
you reap what you sow.
It doesn't affect me though, I vastly prefer japanese games.
you reap what you sow.
It doesn't affect me though, I vastly prefer japanese games.
DeuceGamer
Member
Not sure about a 10-game deal, but getting them to make a Switch game would be good.
Edit: meant a Switch exclusive