AgentOtaku
Member
Dammit!
Now I want to play through the entire series again (>___<)
Now I want to play through the entire series again (>___<)
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Killzone Universe: Complete Timeline & Backstory
- Thread starter noah111
- Start date
As someone who knows very little about Killzone and has never played one of the games, this sounds fascinating.
When I first heard about this game, it sounded like the Helghast were aliens, but then, looking at this timeline and seeing the words "Helghan Corporation", I immediately knew what was going to happen. In the original Killzone, is this some kind of big reveal, or does the player know from the beginning that the Helghast were originally human?
When I first heard about this game, it sounded like the Helghast were aliens, but then, looking at this timeline and seeing the words "Helghan Corporation", I immediately knew what was going to happen. In the original Killzone, is this some kind of big reveal, or does the player know from the beginning that the Helghast were originally human?
definitely allusion to that in the intro cutscene
Decent lore. Although quite a bit of suspension of disbelief is required. The original Helghans willingly move to the planet Helghan after the first war. And for what? Loyalty to a corporation? I understand the war created a sense of solidarity among them but I still find it difficult to believe they'd trade high living conditions on Vekta for the miserable conditions of Helghan and then continue to endure those miserable living conditions for decades.
TimeEffect
Member
So well said.
I truly believe that for the lore to be told well, they need lengthy cutscenes or a heavy dedication to in-game explanations. I would LOVE for the whole lore to be explained through one long opening cut-scene, those are REALLY well done and can sell the game when you watch it in stores and stuff. Then, sprinkle the game with intel, NPC's talking about the war, etc. I feel the city of Vekta already establishes a feeling of lore, they just need to really bring these elements together.
I think that they are too afraid of taking an FPS game that route, where the story takes precedence through cut-scenes or through other, slower paced sections. Killzone 2, as great as it is, didn't let go of that adrenaline, in-your-face action, and I think they fear the casual crowd not putting up with having that taken away from them.
I would love a Killzone RPG. They have everything at their fingertips for a spin-off that could do their world justice, I hope they consider it. I know they have a new RPG in the makings, but a part of me selfishly wishes it was a Killzone RPG, as much as most people want a new IP. At least they would have covered two of the three requirements: Killzone game, RPG game, let's hope one day they put the two together
iamcool388
Member
Incredible backstory, extremely poorly utilized in the actual games. Hope Shadow Fall changes this sorry state of affairs, though I have very little hope after two disappointments (KZ2 and KZ3).
Perhaps off topic, but serious props should be given to Ian Howe (who is also a poster at GAF!) for helping create such a ridiculously awesome backstory. Didn't see him mentioned so far, so just thought i'd appreciate his efforts. The deliciously ambivalent history amply provides many points for defenders of ISA, Helghan and UCN to hang their hats on.
If GG are not going to use this immense history, they should at the very least make a graphic novel (or short cutscenes) for this timeline with voiceovers in the menu of Shadow Fall.
Perhaps off topic, but serious props should be given to Ian Howe (who is also a poster at GAF!) for helping create such a ridiculously awesome backstory. Didn't see him mentioned so far, so just thought i'd appreciate his efforts. The deliciously ambivalent history amply provides many points for defenders of ISA, Helghan and UCN to hang their hats on.
If GG are not going to use this immense history, they should at the very least make a graphic novel (or short cutscenes) for this timeline with voiceovers in the menu of Shadow Fall.
bigboss370
Member
Yeah I remember reading this years ago, shame it got taken down. Truly some great lore, hope its referenced in Shadow Fall.
This screen/art leads me to believe we might play as the helghast equivalent of special forces isa in Shadow Fall as well:
This screen/art leads me to believe we might play as the helghast equivalent of special forces isa in Shadow Fall as well:
No, they resettled due to the crackdowns the ISA were enforcing on the local Helghan populations, under the guise of terrorism and whatnot. Not only that, but their economy was completely under UCN control at that point, and no longer Helghan's.
Combine those important facts with the whole 'oppression' angle and how they were probably already living in the slums of Vekta anyway (similar to in SF), it's not a surprising move at all, in my opinion.
Keep in mind there are probably still some original Helghan settlers who never left Vekta, but they're a small minority at that point, if they exist.
Yes! I remember him on the GG forums back in the KZ2 days, I was trying to remember the name of the writer I knew had a part in this backstory, but couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks.
And yeah, they could easily make a series of short films about all this history if they wanted to.
I still don't buy it. If anything they'd diaspora to other colonies instead of moving to a hellhole planet.
Schrade
Member
Iain Howe hasn't posted since October 26th, 2009 :-/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/member.php?u=34899
I still love the work he did with the backstory.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/member.php?u=34899
I still love the work he did with the backstory.
Disagree. They just have poor writers. KZ1/2 did not do anything like COD. KZ2 was a brilliant game but still did not do justice to the story. They need to change the genre from a pure FPS to an RPG to bring out the lore. I dont think GG is interested in doing that unfortunately.
It is also a question of time. For them to bring out the lore they need to make it more in the vein of a Deus Ex instead of a pure FPS. They would need huge resources for that because you must remember unlike most RPG's these guys have to design for the multiplayer crowd as well. That will take a significant portion of the budget as well. It's unfortunately either have 7-8 hours of pure FPS with multiplayer in KZ universe or pure single player 20-25 hour Deus Ex like RPG in KZ universe. You cannot have both.
bigboss370
Member
we don't need an rpg, we need a well implemented story. and i think we can achieve that without changing the genre of the games.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Yeah, Downfall was actually pretty good. They kind of stretched the definition of "animation" though!
We def can have a story better than what GG has done with KZ2/3 but I still believe as a pure FPS it cannot absolutely do justice to all this lore.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
That's actually a pretty good story. Too bad none of it was in the actual game...I didn't even know Killzone had a story.
bigboss370
Member
why not? whats more important than the lore is the story going forward. it wouldn't be a hard task to reference the lore in npc/enemy dialogue, environments, collectable documents, etc. or even including the timeline in the menu or represent it in opening cinematics. at the end of the day the lore is the backdrop for the world, and whats more important is the storytelling in the present.
Sure but the UCN never intended to kick the settlers out of Alpha Centauri. The exodus happened because of crackdowns on the helghast population due to terrorism (targeted murders and the like) of non Helghast citizens (or UCN immigrants as it were).
Absolutely right, though the HGC were already making fortunes from the resources on Helghan. They made enough to purchase the system outright after all, it was only after that the UCN felt vulnerable due to the HGC over-extending.
It's looking very likely that the UCN came in and dissolved ISA Alpha Centauri (ISA is now the VSA) and forced the settlement (along with a lot of grief back home from the Vektans over what happened, remember they signed a peace treaty before Sev and Rico nuked all of Helghan). The helghast by no means are living in slums, look at those towers. They seem equally as developed as the Vektan side of the city.
Rico gets a bad rap. He did the only thing he could do when Garza was a second away from being shot, and I think a lot of people misinterpret the ending of Killzone 3. Stahl was about to activate the FTL while in the atmosphere. Minor point, that would have caused huge amounts of damage to the planet and killed anyone nearby, though not anything comparable to what happened.
http://youtu.be/B0wiScd0zyY?t=4m9s
1. Sev was agreed as much as Rico to go after Stahl
2. None of them realized what being above Petricite vein was going to do.
3. Stahl was about to get away and kill billions of people on earth. He stabilized the FTL drive and was pulling up. He stabilized the FTL core and was pulling up. Still terrible decision to launch the nuke.
But re-watching that cutscene reminds me of how fucking horrible the KZ3 writer was. Generic action movie #9000 a gogo. The KZ2 writer had tone and some very nice flourish here and there, they just needed to focus on certain elements more and less on it beign a very vague dudebro story.
IMO, the main mistake Guerrilla is making with how they approach their campaigns is that they're still stuck in the PS2 days. They want the SP campaign to give the players their 'FPS fix'. Newsflash: gamers who really want that shooter galore will jump straight into MP, these days. The SP can still be a great shooter, obviously, but that doesn't need to be the focus. The priority should be the story, rather than the shoot em ups.
It seems SF will be doing some things right with the more open world and user choice, but we'll have to wait till E3 to see if that stuff actually means anything for a deeper plot or not.
TacticalFox88
Banned
I think what pisses me off the most is that GG has ignored fans who've been BEGGING for this to be utilized and to play as the helghast. Goddamn that annoys the fuck outta me
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Had a glance at the OP, timeline seems too compressed. Seems like it took under 80 years to go from new colony on uninhabited planet to sprawling industrial centers, war fleet manufacturing and so on. Just how many people are supposed to be living in these places anyawy? Is everybody having 15 child families or did the extremely difficult/slow interstellar journeys become cheap and easy to pull fresh waves of migrants from Earth? Nearlight spacecraft take near unfathomable energies to accelerate. It's not like Earthers can book a pleasure cruise to Alpha Centauri, right? I didn't see any mentions of magical FTL drives anywhere. Did they get invented but not mentioned in the timeline?
Not realistic enough. Sharp knees. Would not bang. 0/10
Not realistic enough. Sharp knees. Would not bang. 0/10
Dragon1893
Member
Thanks for posting this. It's an interesting story and I didn't know half of it despite having played all the games.
I'll have to replay the trilogy before playing Shadow Fall, reading this definitely raised my interest in the series again. Let's hope SF is better in the story department.
I'll have to replay the trilogy before playing Shadow Fall, reading this definitely raised my interest in the series again. Let's hope SF is better in the story department.
How's that unrealistic? 8 decades is a long, long time. Compare our progress from 1930 to now, for example. Also keep in mind they travelled to the Alpha Centauri with the sole imperative of colonization, so it's not like they weren't ready and don't know what they're doing/have goals etc.
Traveling at 99% the speed of light it would only be a 4 year trip. Their ships aren't that close to the speed of light apparently, so it took them about 10 years to get to Alpha Centauri.
After the war on earth and the goals were set, it took them about 40 years to develop a more advanced space propulsion technology to travel near the speed of light.
Also read "The Helghan journey to Alpha Centauri (2118-2127)" where they say the 'Ice-Nod' chambers that were used for transit ended up killing 2% of the total population.
I don't know what you're getting at with 'pleasure cruise'.. it was a planned voyage, there's no back and forth trips and whatnot.
HueyFreeman
Banned
I love these games but... all this amazing story, and the game's called Killzone.
Ffffuck.
Ffffuck.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I'm talking about population growth / density, rate of industrialization etc. It took several hundred years for the colonies on Earth to go from first settlement to world powers, and these were in places that already had large native populations and were relatively easy to get access to (journeys measured in months, not years, with regular transit to and from). They make it seem very difficult to reach the AC system, which is good, but the implication of the timeline is that absolutely staggeringly large migration must have taken place. This is complicated by the total lack of infrastructure, biosphere, or general habitability on the target planets. The timeline also talks about all these problems, failed colonizations and what not.
Something doesn't add up. These are the kinds of problems that would have gone away if the writers had a sense of scale and slapped on an extra 150 years, or said "oh and then they built the magic space bridge to Earth" or something. It's just numbers, right? There was no compelling reason it had to take place in 2200 or whatever?
Note that I'm not really getting upset here, nor suggesting you should all stop liking it. Just pointing some stuff out.
Flatline
Banned
Regarding population, in the beginning of Killzone Visari says that it was the "greatest exodus of mankind" so it's very possible they were a lot.
staticneuron
Member
Lol I take it you are really against the ISA/UCN. There is something you are missing here. The Helghan Corporation was just a business. Not a race or a society yet. The Helgahn Corp most likely still answered back home to earth. The ISA were formed in 2133. So that could have included people from every planet including Vekta. Helghan corp did "NOT" become a civil administration until 2152 and the purchase happened in 2155. By this time there was most likely ISA on Vekta as well. Then the finally secede in 2199.
So you are kinda looking at this wrong because you seem to support the Helgahn as a people when originally Helghan was the name of the corp that footed the bill and the people that lived and worked there were still considered part of the UCN.
Even more evidence that the ISA were already on Vekta. is in 2200 when the Helghan administration tried to expel the ISA from helgan and vektan colonies.
I would imagine that this would have been similar to neighbor fighting neighbor because the only thing that would define members probably wasn't birth but simply allegiance.
Sure if you start there. But Sthal was trying to decimate earth. If they let him get way he most likely would have tried again. The difference is intention. Jorhan tried to kill a planet. The few members of the ISA (going against orders mind you) didn't intend to wipe out a planet.
Like Flatline states above they implied alot of humans were left to start the colonies, I imagine the rest is due to technology. How quickly things are built, the planning and implementation of infrastructure. All those things can be overcome if they simply had the right tech to build and expand rapidly.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
"Helghan extremists begin a terrorist campaign in an attempt to make the occupation of Vekta too expensive for the ISA. Although the majority of Vektan Helghan simply want to live out their lives peacefully, sufficient numbers of the local populace assist the guerrilla movement to enable it to flourish. Bombings, ambushes and shootings against the UCN minority become more common - Vekta is no longer an innocent paradise."
While sure most Helghans wanted nothing to do with it, a significant amount of Helghans were leading terrorists attacks. The ISA (who were really more like a police force) had no choice but to clamp down on the Helghans because Vekta was turning into a very unsafe place. So all the Helghans who were doing nothing had to pay the consequences for the actions of the few. At this point they weren't living in their lush Eden anymore, and this is why they made the decision that they'd be better off on Helghan. Important to note it was their choice.
And they couldn't really just move to other non-occupied areas of Vekta because the ISA were widespread and staying on the same planet would make it too easy for those terrorists groups to keep attacking and bring trouble back to them. They felt by going to Helghan they could escape this.
He also has the orator skills to get even some people here to like him, despite being a brutal murderer of innocent people.
There is no indication at all that the HGC reported back to earth, as they were basically self sustaining at that point. Whether or not they were a civil administration doesn't really matter as they were still a population. Yes there were ISA on Vekta but the ISA aren't "a people" in the same degree. They were not "helghast" yet, either, but they were still natives in the sense that they came with the Helghan Coprporation fleet. The ISA situated there were very small and weren't a society or established population in the same way, at all. And thus the UCN invasion was just that, where they took over what the HGC had already established there, which eventually led to many native Helghans leaving.
PS. You quoted my reply to someone else. ;p
Again, at a certain point they were still considered Helghans and had basically cut ties with the UCN anyway, as they were more or less self sustaining as a society and whatnot (not 'UCN's people').
Doesn't matter, Sthal trying to nuke earth doesn't somehow justify them destroying Helghan, does it? Go back and watch that bit, he was going to go and land the destroyed ship on Helghan to which Rico/Sev said something like 'hell no he isn't' and they wanted him to pay. They did that by destroying the ship outright, with a rocket.
Either way the ship was destroyed and he wasn't going anywhere, but like in KZ2, they let their personal vengeance get to them and that eventually has a price. The ISA seem to be very unprofessional in that sense, unlike their special forces or the UCA.
Main thing you're right about is it isn't the whole of ISA, they were basically marooned anywhere so their actions can't exactly reflect on the UCN/ISA, either.
staticneuron
Member
I highlighted your quotes because you continue to label helghan as a people.
Let us say you work for a company named Super in the states. You are a US citizen. But the company decides to move you to a US territory let us say the USVI. At this point in time even if the company pays all the bills on the island, it doesn't stop you nor the company from being considered part of the country they originate from. Even if the company makes enough money to purchase the island. Because the company and its employes are American, they and the land they own are still considered American. It isn't until they declare themselves independent and try to secede do things change.
Or in a much simple analogy you can compare this to the American revolution. By your methodolgy, you are trying to imply the colonists were American "before" they declared independence. The truth is they were not. They were still British colonies despite being self sustaining and paying taxes back to the empire.
So the only natives you are talking about will be people "born" on the planet. All of them considered UCN, until the decision to secede.
Again a point I mentioned above. Being self sustaining (which is the normally the point of establishing a colony) doesn't mean that they were removed from UCN membership.
1. I didn't say that destroying Helghan was justified. I am pointing out it was an accident. An unforseen side effect of taking out sthal. You are ignoring intent.
2. Going after Sthal is more about tactics not "revenge". Sthal was steadfast on his course of action. Letting him go would only mean that he would try again. They were not in a position to warn the other planets so they decided to stop it then and there. Saying the ship was stopped doesn't mean that sthal was stopped. He basically was in control of the military might of the planet at the time. That would only have been a temporary setback.
we.are.the.armada
Member
I really like the fiction and look of Killzone - very Paul Verhoeven
Exactly, well said. There's nothing about them resettling that is hard to believe, imo.
R_thanatos
Member
I read it all , for me both sides are at fault ..because both thought they could abuse the other.
Nice post for the OP by the way
Nice post for the OP by the way
That1BlackGuy
Member
Yeah I defo remember reading this after I beat Killzone 3. I've played KZ1, KZ3 & KZ-Liberation and plan on getting Mercenary and Shadowfall so it was nice to get a refresher on the overall story. Shame they didn't incorporate more of this into the actual games (Well, other than KZ1) Great job @OP.
This inspires some hope that they'll have at least a competent story this time.
That's also my impression, it makes sense with this 'Berlin wall conflict' going on too
Stahl had stopped the FTL from over-loading (creating a chain reaction that probably would have nuked the entire planet anyway) and was pulling up to fire the FTL. The ship wasn't crash landing, they specifically show it stopping its decent and say 'it's pulling up!" "He's going to get away.".
Rico is unprofessional after seeing his entire squad murdered and his long time friend killed. People can of course dislike Rico for many reasons but the way he is blamed for Garza is simply wrong. In saying 'fuck this' it wasn't an admission that he was simply too hot headed to wait for Sev to get into position, he actually couldn't wait because Raddec was literally pulling the trigger pointed at Garza's head at said moment.
http://youtu.be/JUGoX_WJOvw?t=6m55s
Do think Evalin was going to give over the launch codes? More importantly do you think Radec or Rico thought she would. Garza was a useless grunt, and they would have had plenty of time to torture her anyway. Rico tried so save everyone's life. Garza got shot on a fluke because a dead helghast happened to unload his weapon on the way down. Sev was too slow and Rico was forced to into the best of bad options.
Also note one ISA soldier had already just been shot in the head.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
I think Zen has convinced me that Rico isn't the big douchebag I always thought he was. His points in regards to Garza's death and the Helghan irradiation are very good.
Still, there's not much you can say about how he shot Visari. The ISA could of gotten a lot of information out of him, but Rico was too hot tempered.
Still, there's not much you can say about how he shot Visari. The ISA could of gotten a lot of information out of him, but Rico was too hot tempered.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
I actually found a flaw with your argument here, and that is you are assuming the ISA that the timeline mentions during the First Extrasolar War is the same ISA we play as in the Killzone games. This is not the case. At the beginning of Killzone 3 it states, "At the end of the First Extrasolar War, Earth's ISA forces had crushed the rogue colony of Helghan."
My point that the [Vektan] ISA are just trying to defend their home is valid even if it wasn't their home to begin with. They weren't the ones who took it from the Helghan Administration, Earth's ISA along with the UCA did. The new Vektans who made it their home did so because it was there, like many people made America their home even if it did belong to the Native Americans many years ago. And let's not forget that it was 155 years since Helghan Administration lost control of Vekta when the Helghasts invaded.
I understand the motives for why the Helghasts invaded, but don't see any wrong doing in how the Vektan ISA initially responded - they got thrown into a conflict they didn't create.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Not all of them left.
The 'terrorists' wanted their own independence without the involvement of the ISA. Helghan was their ticket to that.
Yeah there's little defending Rico for Visari. His character has lost a lot to the Helghast throughout all the games. He has gotten fucked over one way or another in every game sans Killzone 3.
Killzone 1: His entire squad is murdered in front of him.
Liberation: Captured/tortured and framed as a traitor
Killzone 2: Jan is killed by Radec
But everyone has lost something to the Helghast and vise versa. Rico is in the military and it was his job to follow orders in that regard. Unfortunately, and this is for all the shit Killzon deserves in its storytelling, I think Killzone 2 shows how Rico breaks from beginning to end. he cracks. He starts out as your Squad leader and ends up being the guy that kills Visari in a bout of rage over everything he has lost.
That doesn't make him a douchebag, just a guy that saw too much for too long and fucked up badly when faced with the embodiment of everything that had taken friends and family from him. Sev came into this war fresh, Rico had been there since day 1.
It's too bad that Killzone 3 turned everything into generic action movie 9000. There was some serious potential for interesting character moments between Rico and Sev. Sev and Rico would in part blame each other and themselves for Garza.
Rico and Sev would blame Rico for Visari, which could have been all sorts of interesting. And the both of them are stranded on a hostile alien planet. We could have seen a couple good scenes with overall themes of self loathing, mutual hatred, respect, measures of forgiveness and acceptance, and rising up again to have one another's backs because it's the only way they would survive. I wouldn't even have minded if Rico and Sev had gone through taht arc and died at the end of Killzone 3.
They sacrifice their lives to save earth/Vekta from Stahl or whomever for a Vektan government that sold them out for political convenience (signing the peace treaty and demanding the remaining ISA forces surrender), a Vektan government, that in their acts of saving it from whatever Stahl and the Helghast were about to do, would sooner have prosecuted them for war crimes and insubordination as a means of public convenience had they even made it back home.
I'd kind of imagined a more personal Killzone 3 survival than what we got. Man the ISA suddenly had roughly 20 times the amount of hardware in Killzone 3 that they'd had by the end of Killzone 2, that was kind of weird guys.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
The "terrorists" didn't want to leave Vekta, they didn't want to accept that they lost it in the first war so were trying to make it too difficult and expensive for the UCN to continue to occupy it in hopes that they just leave.
The Vektan Helghans who weren't part of the terrorist groups are the ones who wanted to leave to Helghan, because the actions of those groups have put them in a bad situation since the ISA had to clamp down on them as a whole even if it was just a few. They felt if they could leave to a place far away from the ISA the group of them who were "terrorists" would finally give it up and stop making it harder on everyone.
windowlurker
Banned
It's a shame it took a tread on Neogaf to let me fully understand this compelling story.
You would think the "Which side are you on?" would be the clear tagline in this franchise (for SONY to advertise). Good read and thanks for sharing Sentry
You would think the "Which side are you on?" would be the clear tagline in this franchise (for SONY to advertise). Good read and thanks for sharing Sentry
bigboss370
Member
I'm working my way through the timeline again, and loving it as I did last time. One question at the moment - during the "Tensions/2198" section it mentions that the UCA are building vehicles capable of smashing the ISA fleets, but I don't recall it saying that the ISA weren't still under the control of the UCA/UCN at this point.
Did I miss a development somewhere?
Did I miss a development somewhere?
slightconfuse
Banned
If they made this stuff more apparent instead of making it look like another space Marine shooter I might be incline to plays these games
Similar threads
- Poll