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Lime · May 28, 2017

gutter_trash said:
Trump is a temporary simptom.
relations with the US will resum to normal as soon as Trump is impeached or resigns

It's not as simple as that. The Bush years still left a bad taste in everyone's mouthes, so whatever damage and fallout that Trump's USA will bring upon everyone, people will still remember and be affected by four years of fascism.

Besides, I don't expect the US to have any empathetic political candidate with how horribly right winged and imperialist the country's politics are, regardless of the party.

opricnik · May 28, 2017

Lol like germany is

gutter_trash · May 28, 2017

Merkel should calm down with the incidiary language.

Many EU countries still have friendly ties with the UK and the US.

Trump is a temporary; there will be a mainstream President who will replace him .

The UK will still be a NATO ally

KingSnake · May 28, 2017

This is the right thing to do. I hope the rest of EU will understand the situation in the same way.

Trump's unwillingness to stand by article 5 (which ironically has benefited only US so far) means that EU needs to plan ahead without US military support. UK willingness to use secret service collaboration and EU citizens's status as bargain chips for a trade agreement means that UK is pretty much in the same (not to be trusted) category.

Luckily Macron seems to be on the same page with Merkel and willing to assume a more important role than last French presidents and these two working together might set up a better future for EU.

It's funny how the most warmongering countries in the past decades, US and UK, are suddenly isolationist after causing so much damage in the middle east and by consequence in Europe, but what can one do?

TheRealTalker · May 28, 2017

Any way a timeline for an EU army was stirring since Oct/Nov of last year, rather now they have less critics to steam roll ahead with it.

Regardless if Trump's Presidency is temporary or not the lack of reliance on US power for everything would be a good thing for the EU.

frontovik · May 28, 2017

Signs of the time .. yet I feel it's necessary for Europeans to make the best decisions for themselves instead of being dragged along the US' every whims; regardless of good or bad times.

KDR_11k · May 28, 2017

Hazzuh said:
Is Germany a reliable ally?

Germany:

Likes Birkenstock
Likes green energy
Likes recycling
Hates war

Obviously a public poll won't get a favorable result on any war activities. Our anti-ISIS deployments in Syria were limited to scouting with strict promises by politicians that we would not drop any bombs.

Chmpocalypse · May 28, 2017

Schattenjäger;238356567 said:
I'm arguing effects in the long term

Such as what prompted the news in this thread. Those effects will last a long time.

Again, your argument is nonsensical.

GoldenEye 007 · May 28, 2017

gutter_trash said:
Merkel should calm down with the incidiary language.

Many EU countries still have friendly ties with the UK and the US.

Trump is a temporary; there will be a mainstream President who will replace him .

The UK will still be a NATO ally

This isn't a 4-8 year problem. Decisions made now will have disastrous effects for decades. Generations really.

LizardKing · May 28, 2017

Oersted said:
Whatever happened to "You can't expect 100% agreement with allies."?

So are you implying that because Trump wants to pull out of the Paris accord that the US and Europe as a whole are no longer like minded? I mean it's just so short sighted. The previous president had the most aggressive climate policies in US history. Americans in general are very much in agreement. You want to throw the baby out with the bathwater because of this, which is a blip in the history of relations between the two entities? We still agree on almost everything. These relationships are long term. Not subject to the changing whims of a 4 year presidency. And as far as Britain is concerned, it's not like they don't want anything to do with the EU anymore.

Gutek · May 28, 2017

Bruce Springsteen said:
The less information that is shared between countries the greater it is for terrorist organizations, this is quite terrible news if she's really pushing this

Yeah, it is HER pushing for this. Not Trump. Good god.

Yoshimitsu126 · May 28, 2017

Balls on GOP court now. This sounds like a warning shot to US congress.

KingSnake · May 28, 2017

gutter_trash said:
Trump is a temporary; there will be a mainstream President who will replace him .

How many Americans think US should be friends with Russia?

How many Republicans think Russia interfering in US is not an issue?

How many of the GOP congressmen have said anything against the current US foreign policy tendencies? Is there any GOP voice raised against the fact that US no longer states loudly its support for article 5?

This is not only about Trump anymore.

oti · May 28, 2017

So let me get this straight. People want Merkel to just not say anything acting like everything's OK because they feel hurt hearing the truth?

Come on, people.

This is Merkel's wake-up call to the EU. Things have changed. The EU has to be willing and ready to adapt to the new world. Don't be so hurt that you're the reason things are a mess.

And you can't just say this is just temporary so who cares. Trump is about to nullify one of the biggest diplomatic achievements of our lifetime, the treaty of Paris.

The US is not reliable anymore.

Oersted · May 28, 2017

LizardKing said:
You can't expect 100% agreement with allies. You have to look at the bigger picture. Times are rough right now I get it. But saying this isn't helping.

I guess maybe in reality she is not trying to distance herself as much as it sounds. But it's still dangerous talk and shows chinks in the armor of western alliance that some parts of the world just got giddy about when she said this.

While dividing the western alliance? That's not a good way to go about it is my point. EU's alliance is important but so it is with all NATO countries.

Did you pay any attention the last days? Trump is actively fighting allies. G7 was a disaster due to him.

Micael · May 28, 2017

opricnik said:
Lol like germany is

Care to elaborate on it, or is it just a "lolz nazi germany" kind of posts?

Schattenjäger · May 28, 2017

Chmpocalypse said:
Such as what prompted the news in this thread. Those effects will last a long time.

Again, your argument is nonsensical.

And I'm arguing that they won't .. no one has shorter memories than politicians

Tommy DJ · May 28, 2017

LizardKing said:
So are you implying that because Trump wants to pull out of the Paris accord that the US and Europe as a whole are no longer like minded? I mean it's just so short sighted. The previous president had the most aggressive climate policies in US history. Americans in general are very much in agreement. You want to throw the baby out with the bathwater because of this, which is a blip in the history of relations between the two entities? We still agree on almost everything.

You're simplifying the argument to make it sound like we can rewind all of this the minute Trump is out.

We've got the Republican Party whose candidate ran a campaign about American First to the point that they're almost belligerent towards NATO and the EU from climate change to trade to migration to military support and treaties.

If the USA wants to show the world that they're still the USA of old, the Republican Party can stop putting party over country for once.

LizardKing · May 28, 2017

KingSnake said:
How many Americans think US should be friends with Russia?

How many Republicans think Russia interfering in US is not an issue?

How many of the GOP congressmen have said anything against the current US foreign policy tendencies? Is there any GOP voice raised against the fact that US no longer states loudly its support for article 5?

This is not only about Trump anymore.

What are you talking about? Americans overwhelmingly do not think the US should be friends with Russia.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/25/fox-news-poll-is-russia-friend-or-foe-voters-say-foe-think-trump-says-friend.html

By a 36-point margin, American voters consider Russia an enemy of the U.S. rather than an ally. In contrast, by a 53-point spread, most think President Trump sees it the other way around.

Xando · May 28, 2017

LizardKing said:
So are you implying that because Trump wants to pull out of the Paris accord that the US and Europe as a whole are no longer like minded? I mean it's just so short sighted. The previous president had the most aggressive climate policies in US history. Americans in general are very much in agreement. You want to throw the baby out with the bathwater because of this, which is a blip in the history of relations between the two entities? We still agree on almost everything. These relationships are long term. Not subject to the changing whims of a 4 year presidency. And as far as Britain is concerned, it's not like they don't want anything to do with the EU anymore.

We don't have 4 years to wait Trump out with a Russia that is currently on the peak of it's post cold war influence.

It's nice for you guys to just wait it out but unless we want our brethrens in estonia or latvia to be part of Russia we cannot allow us to be dependent on Trump and the GOP.

LizardKing said:
What are you talking about? Americans overwhelmingly do not think the US should be friends with Russia.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/25/fox-news-poll-is-russia-friend-or-foe-voters-say-foe-think-trump-says-friend.html

Yet they elected a russia sympathiser or worse a russian puppet. Trump is literally a question for european national security.

Tovarisc · May 28, 2017

LizardKing said:
What are you talking about? Americans overwhelmingly do not think the US should be friends with Russia.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/25/fox-news-poll-is-russia-friend-or-foe-voters-say-foe-think-trump-says-friend.html

Interesting statistic in light that Americans voted into office of president pro-Russia candidate.

JonnyDBrit · May 28, 2017

https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/868854971713933312

Please let this be real.

Zolo · May 28, 2017

Tovarisc said:
Interesting statistic in light that Americans voted into office of president pro-Russia candidate.

It's probably switched some with many more Democrats seeing it as an enemy now and Republicans as a friend, but the poll still shows that only 39% of Republicans see Russia as a friend. Expect Trump's administration to do everything it can to change that view.

LizardKing · May 28, 2017

Xando said:
We don't have 4 years to wait Trump out with a Russia that is currently on the peak of it's post cold war influence.

It's nice for you guys to just wait it out but unless we want our brethrens in estonia or latvia to be part of Russia we cannot allow us to be dependent on Trump and the GOP.

Yet they elected a russia sympathiser or worse a russian puppet. Trump is literally a question for european national security.

Tovarisc said:
Interesting statistic in light that Americans voted into office of president pro-Russia candidate.

And this is exactly my point. Just because the US voted for this, does not mean it has fundamentally changed. It just means evil won this time.

Sibylus · May 28, 2017

4-8 years of one of the largest industrial powers on Earth ignoring the Paris Accords is also damage that could take decades to reverse.

Xando · May 28, 2017

JonnyDBrit said:
https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/868854971713933312

Please let this be real.

It is. This was at a election event in a beer tent in bavaria.

LizardKing said:
And this is exactly my point. Just because the US voted for this, does not mean it has fundamentally changed. It just means evil won this time.

Except what he has said and how he has acted showed the world a radical shift in US policy from being pro eu to being pro russia.

Do you think SK would sit idly by if the US suddenly started to threaten SK and talk positively about NK?

jelly · May 28, 2017

It might be for the best and maybe the UK can join again or some parts like Scotland. It's a shame that we have to go through these turbulent times but is what it is, hope it's good on the other side.

Tovarisc · May 28, 2017

Sibylus said:
4-8 years of one of the largest industrial powers on Earth ignoring the Paris Accords is also damage that could take decades to reverse.

If ever. Damage could be permanent.

Schattenjäger · May 28, 2017

Sibylus said:
4-8 years of one of the largest industrial powers on Earth ignoring the Paris Accords is also damage that could take decades to reverse.

There are mixed reactions to this

Some scientists argue it would be drastic
While other scientists argue it won't be so bad

Even without the Paris Accords, we are relying less on coal and more on natural gas and alternative energy is on the uptick

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-ha...raws-from-the-paris-climate-change-agreement/

BoogieWoogie · May 28, 2017

For people saying Trump is temporary, do you think the GOP is more or less likely to try to push someone like him in future elections considering his success?

oti · May 28, 2017

JonnyDBrit said:
https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/868854971713933312

Please let this be real.

Merkel wants some of dat meme magic.

Tommy DJ · May 28, 2017

LizardKing said:
And this is exactly my point. Just because the US voted for this, does not mean it has fundamentally changed. It just means evil won this time.

What happens if the Republicans get into power again with a pro-Russian candidate again. only not as stupid as Donald Trump?

There's no indication that anyone in the Republican Party will do anything, even if they're compromised by a foreign power, if it means they're going to lose power. Even Lindsey Graham, a pretty huge Russian critic, is doing shit all besides saying that he's "concerned".

You have to come to terms that one half of your country elects politicians that are fundamentally reckless and unreliable.

KingSnake · May 28, 2017

LizardKing said:
And this is exactly my point. Just because the US voted for this, does not mean it has fundamentally changed. It just means evil won this time.

US voted for this knowing Trump's positions criticising NATO and attacking allies like Germany, South Korea and Japan, openly stating that NATO shouldn't defend Eastern Europe and supporting the idea that Russia can be a friend of US. So saying that Russia is an enemy in an opinion poll is worth of nothing when you vote the other way when it matters.

What about the other questions? What's the Republican party position about Trump's foreign policy?

Derwind · May 28, 2017

commedieu said:
Wrong.

There are millions that agree with trump that have shown their cards. A Republican bodyslammed a reporter, didn't step down, but went on to win an election and was given 100k+ is donations for doing so.

The damage from his actions will be devastating. As well as Republicans will control branches of America's government, and have a bias in the Supreme Court. America is done for and will need time to face it's own internal issues before even being able to take on a seat at the world's table.

This mindset was highlighted by trump. But it's supported by every elected Republican seat, as well as a population.

Thinking this is just a 4 to 8 year issue is tone deaf.

Preach.

Bedameister · May 28, 2017

JonnyDBrit said:
https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/868854971713933312

Please let this be real.

That picture was sure taken at the same event she gave the speech at. Not sure if the picture was taken right after that quote

Spaten Bier btw.
absolutely disgusting.png

oti · May 28, 2017

You know, I thought electing Trump would bring America a rare moment of self-reflection. You can't fuck up this bad and still believe you're the good guys. And yet... well.

tuxfool · May 28, 2017

LizardKing said:
If she's not trying to hold it together and instead is entertaining thoughts of division then yes she is part of the problem. I don't care who "started it." She needs to be a voice of reason here and unite while others are foolishly trying to divide.

Of course while in the meantime hedging her bets and working behind the scenes to make sure the EU will be able to be strong either way. But this is not the type of rhetoric that should be coming from her mouth, and should not be the first course of action even if the US/Britain "started it."

To me Merkel has always been the quintessential pragmatist. Making this statement is very much driven by the understanding that those nations are not long term partners any more.

Brexiters and Republicans are going to exist for a long time, so even in the future if sane people enter the governments of those countries, there is no hope for long term continuity in regards to their approaches to foreign relationships. She lived through Bush and that was already a fairly stretched relationship, only to then recover under Obama and suffer an even worse one later.

Thelonelykoopa · May 28, 2017

I Wish if the EU army would ever be formed that they could invade the US in a Coup. Remove all current government officials from power and self elect a standing a new president. Rewrite our constitution and remove the electoral college to help ensure the people who voted trump in have no voting power anymore. Sadly that is a way to optimistic future.

Zolo · May 28, 2017

Thelonelykoopa said:
I Wish if the EU army would ever be formed that they could invade the US in a Coup. Remove all current government officials from power and self elect a standing a new president. Rewrite our constitution and remove the electoral college to help ensure the people who voted trump in have no voting power anymore. Sadly that is a way to optimistic future.

That sounds pretty horrible.

ape2man · May 28, 2017

hydrophilic attack said:
Time for bigger EU integration now that the naysayers are out

EU army and Eurozone federal budget would be good first steps

People do know wilders won the elections in holland? right? more integration? UK leaving the EU!! I think everybody got the message that we should take a step back

LizardKing · May 28, 2017

KingSnake said:
US voted for this knowing Trump's positions criticising NATO and attacking allies like Germany, South Korea and Japan, openly stating that NATO shouldn't defend Eastern Europe and supporting the idea that Russia can be a friend of US. So saying that Russia is an enemy in an opinion poll is worth of nothing when you vote the other way when it matters.

What about the other questions? What's the Republican party position about Trump's foreign policy?

I believe the republicans are playing to whims of their current party leader. I do not believe it's a long term shift in strategy for the party. How can it be when this is how Americans think....

The strong bonds that Americans feel with Europe are not going to go away just because Trump says so. I bet these numbers of Americans who view European countries as an ally are higher than Europeans viewing the same of America even.

Muffin1611 · May 28, 2017

Thelonelykoopa said:
I Wish if the EU army would ever be formed that they could invade the US in a Coup. Remove all current government officials from power and self elect a standing a new president. Rewrite our constitution and remove the electoral college to help ensure the people who voted trump in have no voting power anymore. Sadly that is a way to optimistic future.

Please be a joke post

ape2man said:
People do know wilders won the elections in holland? right? more integration? UK leaving the EU!! I think everybody got the message that we should take a step back

Am I reading this wrong and you're making a joke? Because Wilders didn't win the election.

KingSnake · May 28, 2017

Thelonelykoopa said:
I Wish if the EU army would ever be formed that they could invade the US in a Coup. Remove all current government officials from power and self elect a standing a new president. Rewrite our constitution and remove the electoral college to help ensure the people who voted trump in have no voting power anymore. Sadly that is a way to optimistic future.

This is crazy. US need to solve their own internal problems.

Thelonelykoopa · May 28, 2017

Zolo said:
That sounds pretty horrible.

Dont see how if we are a threat to the world.We needed to get rid of the electoral college a long time ago and this is from a person who benefits from It , I don't want to have that level of voting power if it means a persident like trump could get elected.

KingSnake · May 28, 2017

ape2man said:
People do know wilders won the elections in holland?

?

Nerazar · May 28, 2017

ape2man said:
People do know wilders won the elections in holland? right? more integration? UK leaving the EU!! I think everybody got the message that we should take a step back

That message was delivered by lying to the public at several occasions and by funding and interference from Russia. The only way to react is to become a stronger Union.

Muffin1611 · May 28, 2017

Thelonelykoopa said:
Dont see how if we are a threat to the world.We needed to get rid of the electoral college a long time ago and this is from a person who benefits from It , I don't want to have that level of voting power if it means a persident like trump could get elected.

Then how about the opposition gets it's shit together and makes that a reality instead of allies invading each other

Xando · May 28, 2017

LizardKing said:
I believe the republicans are playing to whims of their current party leader. I do not believe it's a long term shift in strategy for the party. How can it be when this is how Americans think....

The strong bonds that Americans feel with Europe are not going to go away just because Trump says so.

I'm sure estonians will feel great since they have strong bonds with americans when russian tanks drive through Talin.

Muffin1611 · May 28, 2017

Xando said:
I'm sure estonians will feel great since they have strong bonds with americans when russian tanks drive through Talin.

Why wait, just ask Ukraine right now how they feel about the US

Nerazar · May 28, 2017

Xando said:
I'm sure estonians will feel great since they have strong bonds with americans when russian tanks drive through Talin.

Nah, not Russian tanks. Tanks from concerned citizens without any nationality. They do speak Russian, though...

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