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Quake Champions - Large Scale Tech Test on 05/11 - 05/22 + NDA drops & Sacrifice mode

commissar

Member
Tim Willits said (somewhere) they'll bring in custom servers and as I recall suggested that's where one could do a Q3 style duel without abilities.
 

Fugu

Member
TotalBiscuit talking about Quake Champions: https://youtu.be/02Ikb6B55Qc

I agree with his view on the purists, there are plenty of games that have tried the pure arena shooter route with not much success.
Success isn't worth the price tag of a compromised product.

This is a compromised product. It's still good, but it's compromised. The only reason I'm not playing QL instead of this is that id has allowed the state of QL to decay to the point where the client is bug-ridden and even the diehards that have kept the game alive all these years struggle to find reasons to log in.

There's no question in my mind which of the two is the better game.
 
"I agree with his view on the purists, there are plenty of games that have tried the pure arena shooter route with not much success."


Yes, because all of those games had no other significant flaws preventing their success

Wait, they did.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
So we all agree Doomslayer has to be added to the roster, right? With a costume skin to revert to classic Doom marine.
 

MimiMe

Member
Tim Willits said (somewhere) they'll bring in custom servers and as I recall suggested that's where one could do a Q3 style duel without abilities.



herrera-2.gif.CROP.original-original.gif
 

Ont

Member
Success isn't worth the price tag of a compromised product.

This is a compromised product. It's still good, but it's compromised. The only reason I'm not playing QL instead of this is that id has allowed the state of QL to decay to the point where the client is bug-ridden and even the diehards that have kept the game alive all these years struggle to find reasons to log in.

There's no question in my mind which of the two is the better game.

Two points:

1) The direct comparison between Quake Live and Quake Champions is not completely fair. Quake Live is a product of the process that started when Quake 3 was released in 1999, both the game and its players have evolved during the past 17 - 18 years. Quake Champions has not even been released yet, and I reckon that the game and the way how it is being played will change a lot during the next 10 years.

2) With every release of new sequel to a popular FPS franchise, there are always veteran players calling the new game compromised, or worse than the one of the previous games. I have been one of those people. My experience with the Tribes franchise shows that the new players do not see the new game as compromised product or weaker if they enjoy the game. After some time, these players will begin to see the new game as the best version. I am sure there were QuakeWorld and Quake 2 veterans who saw Quake 3 as a compromised product, but after 17 years of Quake 3 and Quake Live, no one cares or remembers.
 

54-46!

Member
2) With every release of new sequel to a popular FPS franchise, there are always veteran players calling the new game compromised, or worse than the one of the previous games. I have been one of those people. My experience with the Tribes franchise shows that the new players do not see the new game as compromised product or weaker if they enjoy the game. After some time, these players will begin to see the new game as the best version. I am sure there were QuakeWorld and Quake 2 veterans who saw Quake 3 as a compromised product, but after 17 years of Quake 3 and Quake Live, no one cares or remembers.

Yup,
- simplified movement, can't do double jumps and so forth.
- simplified armor system, there are no tiers and instead it's just a flat number.
- simplified mega timer
- spawn with 125 hp and a Machinegun.

That said, Q3 is still my favorite game of all time.. and there's always some CPM to play.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Finally getting a handle on Slash's movement. At first I was confused by her slide. It seemed faster to just jump. But with her, you have to curve the mouse left or right to gain speed. And oh boy you can gain hella speed.
 
Success isn't worth the price tag of a compromised product.

This is a compromised product. It's still good, but it's compromised. The only reason I'm not playing QL instead of this is that id has allowed the state of QL to decay to the point where the client is bug-ridden and even the diehards that have kept the game alive all these years struggle to find reasons to log in.

There's no question in my mind which of the two is the better game.

I rather play Quake 3 than live. Why not play Quake 3?
 
TotalBiscuit talking about Quake Champions: https://youtu.be/02Ikb6B55Qc

I agree with his view on the purists, there are plenty of games that have tried the pure arena shooter route with not much success.

It's a dumb argument because none of those games have the brand power and budget of the big names of the genre (quake/UT). You can't use a no name indie game that launched with zero fan fare anywhere within the past 10 years to say that an actual faithful Quake sequel wouldn't find an audience.

There's also the issue of audience expectation. People vastly overstate how popular these games were in their heyday. I was actually playing during those times and arena shooters were always way behind more team based realistic shooters. They had a dedicated smaller audience and that was fine. If you are saying they couldn't get big mp shooter (lets say 10k+ concurrents) of a new arena shooter without compromising it's identity (adding abilities, different stat charachters, nerfing item timing, etc) then yeah, no shit. But if you are saying you couldn't get similar numbers to arena shooters from their height (lets say 3-5k concurrents) then I'm going to call bullshit because no one even tried.

It reminds me of the time before CSGO launched and nothing was coming out to serve that audience and people just thought it was dead. Then CSGO hit and finally gave that 'sleeping giant' an outlet and now it is the most popular mp shooter out there.
 

Xyber

Member
It reminds me of the time before CSGO launched and nothing was coming out to serve that audience and people just thought it was dead. Then CSGO hit and finally gave that 'sleeping giant' an outlet and now it is the most popular mp shooter out there.

CSGO also really had to work to get to where it is today, the first year was just a modest success where TF2 was sitting at roughly twice the amount of concurrent players. From
~40k concurrent players to the 6-700k that it's sitting at today shows that if you support your game and listen to the community, it is definitely possible make the game grow and become more popular over time.

Even Ubisoft realized it with Siege and while it isn't a CSGO success, it's still sitting at twice the amount of concurrent players than it did at launch and has a healthy playerbase that any arena shooter would die for.
 

Sou Da

Member
"I agree with his view on the purists, there are plenty of games that have tried the pure arena shooter route with not much success."


Yes, because all of those games had no other significant flaws preventing their success

Wait, they did.

What were some of those flaws? I always wondered what happened to Toxikk.
 
I think you have to be very purist to be bothered for the classes and powers here. They are very subdued in comparison with other 'hero shooters'. 95% of the game is like always: maps that are arena-like maps, game modes of arena shooters, movement, speed, damage, weapon pickups... etc. It feels like Quake.
An ability that is used every 30-40 seconds and a passive that gives you a little movement ability slightly different than the rest just gives you a bit of variety, the context in which it gives you variety is still sounds and feel and plays like Quake game.
 
I think you have to be very purist to be bothered for the classes and powers here. They are very subdued in comparison with other 'hero shooters'. 95% of the game is like always: maps that are arena-like maps, game modes of arena shooters, movement, speed, damage, weapon pickups... etc. It feels like Quake.
An ability that is used every 30-40 seconds and a passive that gives you a little movement ability slightly different than the rest just gives you a bit of variety, the context in which it gives you variety is still sounds and feel and plays like Quake game.

First off I'll say I don't much mind the abilities and stuff in the context of it being a moba-shooter like Overwatch but I don't think people who are saying it's un-quake like are out of line. The abilities can be extremely strong, if you are watching how duels are already playing out just having ranger's teleport to be able to go across the map (ie: grab RA on new-campgrounds then teleport instantly to rail off spawn) is a huge departure from how Duel has played for the past 20 years. Add to the fact that you have kind of a luck situation with the picks and which charachter ends up against which one at the beginning and I can see where people are coming from.

The abilities are only one part of it too, I think a far more egregious change has been that charachters have different hp and armor pools. That is the biggest departure from how Quake is in my mind.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
What do you guys think about the maps?

Ruins and Campgrounds are fantastic. Not a fan of Burial Chamber.
 
"What were some of those flaws? I always wondered what happened to Toxikk."


Within the past 10 years since UT3?

Nexuiz -- Sucks, also had some technical issues performance/lag wise.
Reflex -- It's a solid CPMA Quake style game, but at the same time it's far too similar to CPMA for a game not named Quake. Also had very little going for it in the way of marketing or just public presence (not their fault, small indie team).
UT4 - Still in Pre-alpha, some 3 years later. Only has a small team at Epic working on it. (It's great, though).
Toxikk - Sucks. A bad take on UT and it's the only game I've refunded on Steam.

Diabotical will probably end up having the same issues as Reflex (Especially now that the Quake community will probably move to Quake Champions), but that at least has 2GD's name attached to it to bring it some publicity.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I like all three maps. Ruins is my favourite sacrifice map, I have seen some crazy matches in that map.

I can't play Sacrifice. Always am an anchor to my team. When they add support for mics it will be more viable for randoms I think.
 
I'm hopeful for Quake Champions -- I don't want it to remain as-is in its current iteration, but the foundation is sound. TB's argument is pretty baseless as he doesn't take any of the circumstances into account as to how the games he's referring to have been released. You can't just expect to throw any game out in the wild and expect it to get a groundswell of players -- it can happen, but it's not very likely regardless of the game.
 

f0rk

Member
I've enjoyed the beta, hope they will be revealing more about the direction of content when the next run starts on Friday.
 

Tokubetsu

Member
Wish Galena wasn't so slow. My favorite character design wise but i simply can't perform with anyone slower than Visor. So I'm always using Nyx or Slash.
 

Baleoce

Member
This Bethesda launcher man. I've been monitoring its bandwidth usage, and whatever it says it's downloading, it ends up downloading about 2 to 3 times that amount...
 

Fugu

Member
I rather play Quake 3 than live. Why not play Quake 3?
I play Q3A from time to time but QL has a much larger foothold in my region. I would also rate QL as the better game in general because of the 80 rail, much larger map pool, and better rulesets (like built-in CA and the better TDM rules).

Having said that, Q3A and QL are so similar that I'd play either depending on where the players are. Where I live, the players are on QL.

Two points:

1) The direct comparison between Quake Live and Quake Champions is not completely fair. Quake Live is a product of the process that started when Quake 3 was released in 1999, both the game and its players have evolved during the past 17 - 18 years. Quake Champions has not even been released yet, and I reckon that the game and the way how it is being played will change a lot during the next 10 years.

2) With every release of new sequel to a popular FPS franchise, there are always veteran players calling the new game compromised, or worse than the one of the previous games. I have been one of those people. My experience with the Tribes franchise shows that the new players do not see the new game as compromised product or weaker if they enjoy the game. After some time, these players will begin to see the new game as the best version. I am sure there were QuakeWorld and Quake 2 veterans who saw Quake 3 as a compromised product, but after 17 years of Quake 3 and Quake Live, no one cares or remembers.
The first point I'd agree with. I'm certainly not writing this game off; indeed, I anticipate putting in a lot of hours should they clean up the netcode. I'm not expecting a drastic difference in how the game is played coming about, however. The mechanics are still fundamentally similar to Q3A.

I don't agree at all with the second point, however, mostly because your line of reasoning doesn't apply to me at all. When I was really getting into Quake I came to the conclusion pretty quickly that Quake 2's multiplayer was a downgrade from the original's and I still believe it. I also think Quake 4 is quite a bit worse than every other Quake game and have for years; that's unlikely to change. Quake Champions, in its current state, isn't a game that I will one day come to believe is better than QL unless certain things change. As is, the only selling point over QL/Q3A is the presence of players (...and the fact that the client doesn't crash every time I try to join a new game).
 

bee

Member
Wish Galena wasn't so slow. My favorite character design wise but i simply can't perform with anyone slower than Visor. So I'm always using Nyx or Slash.

she's pretty slow ye but you can always do horizontal rocket jumps off walls where health bubbles are so you also don't lose any health in doing so, i use her all the time
 

f0rk

Member
Beta is back up. They've changed some Sacrifice rules and done something to the rocket launcher but can't really tell. Disappointing, not sure why it was taken down for the week.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Beta is back up. They've changed some Sacrifice rules and done something to the rocket launcher but can't really tell. Disappointing, not sure why it was taken down for the week.

For this weekend's beta, I did make this other thread but you guys can use whichever. It seems like we have more betas ahead of us at any rate.

They did indeed change the rocket launcher. Patch notes here. Also if you have time its a good idea to look over this recent Q&A.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Downloaded this today and had a great time! I haven't played Quake 3 since Dreamcast, so it's been ages since I've experienced multiplayer in this fashion.
Does it normally take a long time to find a match though?

If they release this on Steam, I'm in. But if the Bethesda launcher's the only option, forget it.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Downloaded this today and had a great time! I haven't played Quake 3 since Dreamcast, so it's been ages since I've experienced multiplayer in this fashion.
Does it normally take a long time to find a match though?

If they release this on Steam, I'm in. But if the Bethesda launcher's the only option, forget it.

TDM takes me like 3 minutes to find a match. I've also seen 10 minute (!) Sacrifice queues.

It would kill the game if its not on Steam. It would be Titanfall PC all over again.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I'm glad they increased Slash's armor to 50. She was already good but now she actually doesn't die instantly if you look at her.

They nerfed her ability which is totally fair.
 
Yup,
- simplified movement, can't do double jumps and so forth.
- simplified armor system, there are no tiers and instead it's just a flat number.
- simplified mega timer
- spawn with 125 hp and a Machinegun.

That said, Q3 is still my favorite game of all time.. and there's always some CPM to play.

You are crazy if you think movement was simplified in Q3. I agree with your other assessments, but that one is a fucking reach.
 

Tokubetsu

Member
am i the only gaffer playing this lol?

Anyway, I can't seem to get a handle on the slower champions. I complained before but any of the champions with a base speed slower than 310 i just seem to do poorly with. I'm still testing figuring shit out but so far Nyx and Slash are best champions. Still love Galena's design though but I'm basically a sitting duck whenever I play here.

I'm guessing it has to do with how i play/move. In that im using my movement to help with my aiming. Thats the only thing i can think of as to why my performance dips so much when i pick bigger/slower champions.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
am i the only gaffer playing this lol?

I put like 25 hours into the beta last month but been preoccupied with other games. Its gonna be in beta for at least until quake con, bare minimum. Its good that its 24/7 now at least.
 

E-flux

Member
am i the only gaffer playing this lol?

Anyway, I can't seem to get a handle on the slower champions. I complained before but any of the champions with a base speed slower than 310 i just seem to do poorly with. I'm still testing figuring shit out but so far Nyx and Slash are best champions. Still love Galena's design though but I'm basically a sitting duck whenever I play here.

I'm guessing it has to do with how i play/move. In that im using my movement to help with my aiming. Thats the only thing i can think of as to why my performance dips so much when i pick bigger/slower champions.

I have been wondering why isn't there a Quake champions OT, i have played around 30 hours between the last beta and this day, B.J is a lot of fun to play, though when playing against buddies it feels a bit dirty to pull out the double lighting guns. Went 45 to 10 with him in a lockbox deathmatch, he is a beast.
 

KingKong

Member
am i the only gaffer playing this lol?

Anyway, I can't seem to get a handle on the slower champions. I complained before but any of the champions with a base speed slower than 310 i just seem to do poorly with. I'm still testing figuring shit out but so far Nyx and Slash are best champions. Still love Galena's design though but I'm basically a sitting duck whenever I play here.

I'm guessing it has to do with how i play/move. In that im using my movement to help with my aiming. Thats the only thing i can think of as to why my performance dips so much when i pick bigger/slower champions.

I have a lot of success with Scalebearer, his ult is a lot of fun and proper strafejumping makes up for the slower speed. Sorlag is considered one of the best champions iirc, but Clutch is basically useless
 

Hubble

Member
I am not a graphics guy but man, I am sorry, the graphics in this game is so atrociously bad that I can't play it. My friends say the same thing.
 
Two points:

1) The direct comparison between Quake Live and Quake Champions is not completely fair. Quake Live is a product of the process that started when Quake 3 was released in 1999, both the game and its players have evolved during the past 17 - 18 years. Quake Champions has not even been released yet, and I reckon that the game and the way how it is being played will change a lot during the next 10 years.

2) With every release of new sequel to a popular FPS franchise, there are always veteran players calling the new game compromised, or worse than the one of the previous games. I have been one of those people. My experience with the Tribes franchise shows that the new players do not see the new game as compromised product or weaker if they enjoy the game. After some time, these players will begin to see the new game as the best version. I am sure there were QuakeWorld and Quake 2 veterans who saw Quake 3 as a compromised product, but after 17 years of Quake 3 and Quake Live, no one cares or remembers.
Pretty much agree 100% with this.
 
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