• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Gaogaogao
Member
(10-13-2017, 04:31 AM)
Gaogaogao's Avatar
I dont understand why they wouldn't have dumped his ass if there wasn't any strings attached
MoogleMan
Member
(10-13-2017, 04:40 AM)
MoogleMan's Avatar
A hat in time is better overall, but yooka laylee looks better IMHO.
Ivellios
Member
(10-13-2017, 04:59 AM)
Ivellios's Avatar

Originally Posted by poodaddy

Believe it or not, I kind of do. Of course I don't, (can't), read up on every single member of every single dev team to see if they're awful or not, but I absolutely do look into directors of games, head designers and artists, head programmers, studio heads, and publisher executives and CEO's to see if I want my money going to support them or not. It sounds hard to believe, but I really don't think it's all that rare either. I started "voting with my wallet" quite some time back as I decided to stop being a hypocrite and complaining about things that I ostensibly support; so far it's helped me feel marginally less like a waste of life, so that's good then I guess.

In summary, my answer to your question is: yeah sorta.

I see. I think that even if a game have a asshole like HiT developer (i just discovered this in this thread), he did not make this game alone. I believe there are good people on the team as well, maybe he is just the exception?

Playing the game i just cant believe a team full of shit persons could make a game like this. Or maybe im just a naive person.
AJ_Wings
Member
(10-13-2017, 05:09 AM)
AJ_Wings's Avatar

Originally Posted by MoogleMan

A hat in time is better overall, but yooka laylee looks better IMHO.

I can't agree with that. AHiT has a more cohesive & consistent art style from the environments to character design which maintains that cartoony style with the texturing & shading. In YL, you have realistic looking assets & textures placed alongside the more cartoony elements of the visuals. Hate to say it but Yooka Laylee looks downright amatuerish with its visual inconsistencies. AHiT is the far more visually appealing game for me.

OT: AHiT is simply the better game from level design, platform placement, controls...etc
BasilZero
Member
(10-13-2017, 05:11 AM)
BasilZero's Avatar

Originally Posted by Toxi

Do you prefer Banjo Kazooie or Super Mario 64?

Alternatively, are you okay with listening to a racist shithead's voice acting?


As much as I love Mario, I gotta go with BK - which I enjoyed way more than SM64.




Despite liking how AHIT looks, I'll rather go with Yooka Laylee simply because how its so similar to Banjo Kazooie.
Mr.FortyFive
Member
(10-13-2017, 05:13 AM)
Mr.FortyFive's Avatar
Never played hat, but after 100%ing Yooka I can say it was a thoroughly mediocre experience. It's clear a lot of love went into that game, but the result is... disappointing. If Hat is just a decent game, it's probably the better one.
TriAceJP
Member
(10-13-2017, 05:19 AM)
TriAceJP's Avatar

Originally Posted by JordanN

The minute I read the title I knew it was going to be about JonTron. 😂

It's NeoGAF.
Iksenpets
Banned
(10-13-2017, 05:29 AM)
Iksenpets's Avatar

Originally Posted by Nitpicker_Red

Since the discussion seems focused on it, might be a good idea to actually have a link to JonTron's Dialogue included in the game to discuss it clearly:

[►]The Owl receptionist at Dead Bird studio (optional, 3 lines)

[►]The Penguin role was in beta but is not part of the final game.

It doesn't really matter what his dialogue is. The problem is the man himself, and the devs willingness to associate with him.
necrosis
Member
(10-13-2017, 05:40 AM)
necrosis's Avatar
yooka is better and also doesn't give cameo appearances to a horrible racist
void666
Banned
(10-13-2017, 05:47 AM)
A Hat in Time is the better game. It's funny i had never heard about this game before. If it wasn't for Gaf i wouldn't be playing it.
KHlover
Banned
(10-13-2017, 05:49 AM)
Probably A Hat in Time. If you forced me to buy one of them. It's at least based on Mario.
Raiden
prruuwuu
(10-13-2017, 06:10 AM)
Raiden's Avatar

Originally Posted by BriGuy

I would just bite my tongue and wait two more weeks for Mario. These other games are akin to jacking it when you've got guaranteed mind-blowing sex later that night; why dilute the experience?

I love how you worded this lmao.


But yes, why numb yourself with some racist or mediocre platforming when you got the goat coming up.

Play some other genre OP its not that long anymore.
preta
Member
(10-13-2017, 06:13 AM)
I'd rather play A Hat in Time, but I'd rather support Yooka-Laylee. As it stands, I'd be interested in playing the former if I could get it without supporting the devs, for instance, from a Humble Bundle at some point.
K.Sabot
Member
(10-13-2017, 06:26 AM)
K.Sabot's Avatar
Hat in Time was a perfect teaser for Odyssey.

Just short and different enough, like a good expansion to Mario Sunshine. I am super pumped for the main course.

Also ya'll still going on about voice actors and what not, I better not see you in the KH3 OT because James Woods is an even bigger piece of shit than Jontron.
petran79
Member
(10-13-2017, 06:34 AM)
petran79's Avatar
A Hat in Time is more polished but I feel they appeal to different games. YKL follows Rare platformer mechanics while Hat has influences from other games like Sly Cooper.

Originally Posted by Soren01

AHiT is a harmless game. GTA and AC are much more controversial games (politically) and almost nobody complains. Gamers, at least.

Nintendo's hardware isnt manufactured in the best working conditions and isnt environment friendly,yet Mario and Zelda are praised.
Qwark
Member
(10-13-2017, 06:42 AM)
Qwark's Avatar
I really enjoyed Yooka Laylee. I admit it had issues, but I don't think it remotely deserves all the hate. That being said, A Hat in Time looks super cool too.
A Black Falcon
Member
(10-13-2017, 06:51 AM)
A Black Falcon's Avatar
I have both games, and backed both Kickstarters. And in my opinion, it's not even close! Based on gameplay alone both games are fun, but Yooka-Laylee has significantly better graphics, better music, better controls, and better level designs. It's a fantastic game and one of my favorites of the year. That the developers did the right thing by dropping Jontron is awesome, but the game itself is fantastic.

Meanwhile A Hat in Time has a lot of issues which hold it back significantly. Jontron is the biggest one of these, but the others, including the bad past behavior by the lead developer, how they baited Wii U owners for Kickstarter money, and the questionable at best issue of why Grant Kirkhope didn't write more music for the game are all important to consider. There are a lot of reasons outside of the game to dislike A Hat in Time.

As for the game itself though, the game is charming and, once you get used to it, fun to play. It feels like a decent to good, though not amazing, 3d platformer from the early '00s, I think. The controls are too floaty, though, and the collision detection has problems -- you can get stuck behind things way more easily than you should in a commercial game. The controls are also entirely unconfigurable. The defaults are okay, but this is a PC game, support control customization! The collision detection is one way that this games' low budget shows, I think. Because of that budget I can understand why that'd happen, but still, after so many years I'd hope for better. Sure, Y-L has some control issues too, but AHiT's are worse.

The issues aren't only in the controls, though; you can get used to those eventually. Another big issue I have with the game is in the level design. Yooka-Laylee uses the Banjo style, where each level is an open world you wander around collecting stuff in. This is probably the most popular style of 3d platformer world design. A Hat in Time uses the Mario 64/Sunshine style, where you enter from the hub into a set level with a single objective, then exit back out between objectives. It makes for a different style in each game, and I like both; I don't think this makes one of these games better than the other, it's just different. Its design does mean that Y-L has larger levels, though, as each needs to cover a lot more space in order to have room for all of the stuff in it. Exploring 3d platformer levels is fun. It's also a longer and more challenging game, while AHiT is short and pretty easy. This should count for something in Y-L's favor; AHiT won't challenge you much.

I also have an issue with the level design of some parts of AHiT, such as the first level, Mafia Town. While both games have expansive levels for you to learn your way around, in AHiT the designers decided that in this level at least, they needed to have an objective indicator that you can bring up on screen. If you hit a button with the default hat it shows a marker on screen towards where the current mission's objective is. This is great, because the open levels are large enough that it would be easy to wander around lost not having any idea where you're supposed to be going for this mission, but isn't that also a problem? I've never seen an objective indicator in a 3d platformer like this before, and as much as I like games helping you figure out what to do -- and I think it is very important to do that -- somehow it feels wrong. Like, I think that with better level design, like you see in Y-L, you should have been able to guide the player without needing that indicator... but AHiT doesn't have that. (On the other hand there are times in Yooka-Laylee where I wished it had a map, but it's not essential, it'd just be kind of nice. It's not hard to learn the stages.)

The second world in AHiT is different -- these stages are much more linear. That's sort of better, but the control and challenge issues are here. Also, I was just playing and ran into something really annoying. So, in stage 2-2, Murder on the Owl Express, I got pretty far into the level... only to get stuck, with further progress apparently impossible. I was not allowed to backtrack from the area I was in and there was nothing to do there either. I really hope that I just missed something obvious, but after looking it up online, the most I can figure is that you're supposed to have the Ice Hat at this point, because then you can turn into an ice block and toss yourself on these ice-marked platforms. Okay... but I only had 4 yarn balls but you need 8 for the hat, and there was no mention at any point in this level that you needed that hat. There's nothing I can do, just quit the stage and go find more by randomly wandering around the other stages, or something, I guess? Ugh. If you're going to require an item, gate that at the start of the stage, not far into it so that people can get stuck and frustrated! That's pretty poor game design... and sure, NES or SNES games did that stuff all the time, but by the N64 era those days were changing and for good reason. The levels' murder-mystery setup and stealth/platforming-focused design were interesting up to that point, but after this I'm not sure if I even want to go back...

Now, Yooka-Laylee does have areas in levels you can't do with your current powers and will need to come back to later, that's how it works in a Banjo-style game where you get more powers over time, but because of the open nature of the levels that's fine, once you realize that you need to return to this area later you can just do that. It never has something like this happen.

As for the graphics and sound, AHiT is a nice-looking game for the most part, they did a good job with what budget they had. However, there is a sizable gap between the two games here, the Rare experience and larger budget really show. I do have one issue with AHiT's visuals though, the black dithered outlines it uses when when you get up close to objects or characters go behind something looks bad. On a different presentation note, on the subject of story and comedy, both do that fairly well. I like the British comedy style Y-L uses more so than A Hat in TIme's jokes, but AHiT has charm as well and is amusing at times, certainly. But this is a genre that focuses on gameplay, not story, so this is a minor factor either way.

So, my first impression on the game is that A Hat in Time It's an alright game, but it's kind of average. I'm sure that my bias -- that I went into Y-L wanting to love it, while with this one all of those controversies seriously soured me on the game long before its release -- has an effect, but still, just looking at the games I do think that Y-L is a whole lot better across the board. I can't think of any major game element AHiT does better, it's a wipeout in Y-L's favor!

Normally though, I'd say that anyone who loves the genre like I do absolutely should get both games and see for yourself which you like more... but thanks to the Jontron issue, I can't recommend it for A Hat in Time, whatever the reason is for their keeping him on, people should vote with their money and not financially support that.

Originally Posted by BernardoOne

A videogame where has throaway lines is not a "platform". And removing it is not exactly something you can do without negative effects, possibly extremely negative.
Yes, Mecha the Slag was an asshole years ago in the TF2 modding community. He didn't make A Hat in Time alone though.

Also, if anything, we've seen that removing him has the effect of give him and his shithead fans a bigger, not smaller platform.

Look at Hat in Time and Yooka-Laylee Steam forums. Look at their Steam reviews. Look at what all the Youtube videos about each one are talking about.
There's almost no talk about Jon on Hat in Time's forum. You have to dig deep a shitload of pages in to get even a mention of him.
Basically every page in Yooka Laylee's forum is infected with talks about the fucker. And you know the worst part? There's a fucking containment thread with over 6000 posts where alt-right fuckwits continue to discuss, defend and argue about all the shit JonTron has said without getting a ban.

You might want to read what a member here who did some art for the game thinks of the AHiT teams' decision to not say anything about Jontron and just quietly keep him in the game: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...8&postcount=79

But it is true that yes, there are two ways to read the AHiT developers' actions: one is that they quietly support Jontron, and the other is that they're scared by the unending sea of alt-right hate that Playtonic has been subjected to because they removed Jontron, and don't want that to happen to them.

Personally, I'm going to assume that it's more likely the former than the latter unless it's proven otherwise. If they want to clear themselves from association with him they had many opportunities to do that, and it was going to create controversy either way.

Either way though, the result is the same: the right hates Yooka-Laylee, and like AHiT, because of nothing relating to either game. There were threads on AHiT'sSteam forum praising them for not removing Jontron, and of course bashing Neogaf at the same time. The alt-right's position is clear.

It's kind of sad, though, that we have come to a time where you can't just like or dislike a game; everything is politicized, so are people saying that they like AHiT more just talking about the gameplay, or is it about Jontron? And how many of the people bashing Y-L have actually played the game at all, or are they just saying things for political reasons? Ideally both developers would have done the right thing so we could just talk about the games, but that isn't possible.

Originally Posted by BernardoOne

Jesus fucking christ are WiiU owners still on with this fucking shit?
They didn't announce or confirm a Wii U version even fucking once and the owners of the dead console are still holding a grudge? There are actual goddamn projects out there that actually promised Wii U versions, that actually had it as a stretch goal. Hat in Time did none of that.

1. During the Kickstarter they said 'we'll look in to a Wii U version'
2. The Kickstarter ends successfully.
3. Almost immediately after they say 'not really, no Wii U version', with some probably untrue reasons given as excuses.

Personally I'd have gotten the PC version either way, but it was a pretty annoying thing for them to do.
Crayolan
Member
(10-13-2017, 07:00 AM)
Crayolan's Avatar

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

The second world in AHiT is different -- these stages are much more linear. That's sort of better, but the control and challenge issues are here. Also, I was just playing and ran into something really annoying. So, in stage 2-2, Murder on the Owl Express, I got pretty far into the level... only to get stuck, with further progress apparently impossible. I was not allowed to backtrack from the area I was in and there was nothing to do there either. I really hope that I just missed something obvious, but after looking it up online, the most I can figure is that you're supposed to have the Ice Hat at this point, because then you can turn into an ice block and toss yourself on these ice-marked platforms. Okay... but I only had 4 yarn balls but you need 8 for the hat, and there was no mention at any point in this level that you needed that hat. There's nothing I can do, just quit the stage and go find more by randomly wandering around the other stages, or something, I guess? Ugh. If you're going to require an item, gate that at the start of the stage, not far into it so that people can get stuck and frustrated! That's pretty poor game design... and sure, NES or SNES games did that stuff all the time, but by the N64 era those days were changing and for good reason. The levels' murder-mystery setup and stealth/platforming-focused design were interesting up to that point, but after this I'm not sure if I even want to go back...

I can guarantee you you do not need the ice hat to complete Murder on the Owl Express.

All the ice hat does is save you a short back track in a few of the rooms and let you get optional collectibles which add to your score at the end of the level.

If you are missing an item needed to complete an act, the game will warn you before you enter.
A Black Falcon
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:30 AM)
A Black Falcon's Avatar

Originally Posted by Crayolan

I can guarantee you you do not need the ice hat to complete Murder on the Owl Express.

All the ice hat does is save you a short back track in a few of the rooms and let you get optional collectibles which add to your score at the end of the level.

If you are missing an item needed to complete an act, the game will warn you before you enter.

Okay yeah, I was missing a key. I'd gotten it, then gotten a game over I guess and it reverted to earlier or something... the death / game over rules in this game are not explained ingame, but it seems that you keep stuff you collected but may be sent back to the last checkpoint if you just get hit, and also get sent back but also lose progress back to when you reached that last checkpoint if you die. That makes sense, but it probably should be indicated better ingame. I was hoping it was something simple like that... bah. :p

I figured that out, though having those ice platforms all over is confusing and should be explained somewhere. I know having things like that has been popular in 3d platformers ever since Mario 64 (the special caps, mostly), but I've never loved that "replay this level and find the new areas you can access!" thing, it's frustrating the first time to know that you're kind of wasting your time because it's impossible to get everything unless you return again later... and yes, both of these games absolutely do this, but Yooka-Laylee tutorializes it better, I think. Also 'replay this level you've beaten but now you can get some hidden stuff' isn't as fun as 'go back to this old level and play a new area in it with your new ability'... though Rare-style 3d platformers have plenty of the former type in them too, so they're hardly innocent here. (Particularly the original Banjo-Kazooie for N64, with its annoying 'the Notes only save if you get all 100 in one run' thing... argh.)

On a related note though, as far as I can tell, there isn't a list of the controls anywhere! I've looked and can't find anything, except for people asking 'what are the keyboard controls', etc. on the Steam forum. I'm using a pad, but still, which buttons exactly do things? There's no control list in the options menu, there's no manual, nothing. What are you supposed to do, memorize the tutorials at the beginning and beyond that just rely on context-sensitive prompts which may or may not appear? Sure, the game doesn't use that many buttons, but seriously whether or not they are configurable (and they should be), you need to at minimum show the controls in the options somewhere!

Returning to the issue of level design, though, is there ever anything in this game in between 'so randomly open we needed a targeting cursor' and 'pretty much completely linear'? As I said I've never seen this genre do the former, but the latter can be great (Rayman 2!). But in general you need balance, areas that are open but which have clear goals. The Rare N64 games and Y-L do that masterfully well. They make levels that are large, but fun to navigate and full of stuff to find and do. This is not that. It's alright, somewhat fun stuff though, sure.
Heilige_Kip
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 08:36 AM)
I loved Yooka laylee. Maybe it wasnt a 10 but I like the developers and their vision of a long time series. I think it was a solid game and sequels will be even better. That said I also can't wait for A hat in time for consoles. The more platformers the better
TDLink
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:37 AM)
TDLink's Avatar
I just did the boss fight of the "Dead Bird Studio" world in A Hat in Time and I'm honestly blown away. I thought the world was pretty meh (the train stuff was good, but the other "side" of the world was pretty shit). But that boss fight, damn it's good.

Like, it's certainly the best boss fight I've played in a platformer in a long time. And I'm thinking it could possibly be the best one ever... but I have to sleep on it.

Came out of nowhere for me since I was so mixed on the world, but what a great boss.
AoM
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:39 AM)
AoM's Avatar

Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

but Yooka-Laylee has significantly better graphics, better music, better controls, and better level designs.

Wise and Kirkhope are two of my favorite composers, but I already like AHiT's soundtrack more. I think new composers have a strong desire to make a great first impression and to really show what they can do, which really comes across from Stiefel. Yooka-Laylee has some great tunes, but it's very familiar music from both of them.
lupinko
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:42 AM)
lupinko's Avatar
I would just buy Mario Odyssey or get Yooka Laylee on sale.

That other game is quite charming but I will never try it because of that racist's involvement.
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:42 AM)
UnnecessaryTodd's Avatar
1)
Yooka Laylee is a really really bad game. Clunky design, unappealing aesthetic (although that's subjective) and overall just a failed Banjo clone.

2)
A Hat in Time is a really really good game. Heavily inspired by 3D mario games but with lots of other good game design in there and other inspirations (The hat abilities/switching remind me a lot of Majora's Mask). Personally I always disliked being ejected from the world a la the 3D mario games, but Hat in Time justifies it with how radical the worlds change each scenario, and also thematically presenting the world in chapters and general storybook feel.

3)
Yooka Laylee devs are seemingly good people who did a good thing in removing someone from their game that said things they disagreed with

4)
A Hat in Time devs are questionable in that they did not do the above and have not commented one way or the other.

That's pretty much the only things you need to factor. You aren't a better or worse person no matter how you decide. Whatever things are important to you, base your decision on that. Don't let people give you crap for caring more about any of the above points than any other.

Here is this entire thread in .gif form:

KonradLaw
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:44 AM)
KonradLaw's Avatar
A Hat in Time easily. No comparision.
jimboton
Member
(10-13-2017, 08:50 AM)
jimboton's Avatar
For a long time I thought A Hat in Time would be better as a pure 3d platformer, more focused on tight platforming and good use of traversal mechanics, but in the end it's turned out disappointingly simple and way too easy on that regard. Plus it has racist voice talent. Personally I'd go for Yooka-Laylee, it's a much better game than people have been led to believe.
Xisiqomelir
Member
(10-13-2017, 09:05 AM)
Xisiqomelir's Avatar
I've only played Hat, but it deffo scratches that DK64 collectathon itch.
Jazzem
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:16 PM)
Jazzem's Avatar

Originally Posted by UnnecessaryTodd

Ugh, what show is that from? Unless I'm misreading it, I hate that it's implying we should never take a stand with what we purchase.

No one's under the assumption that all our modern consumption can be completely moral, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try in clear cut cases. At a time when the rise of the alt right is a real concern, shunning anything that's happily complicit with members of it is a fair call, especially when it's just a one off game as opposed to a necessary lifestyle product.
Maximo
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:25 PM)
Maximo's Avatar

Originally Posted by Jazzem

Ugh, what show is that from? Unless I'm misreading it, I hate that it's implying we should never take a stand with what we purchase.

No one's under the assumption that all our modern consumption can be completely moral, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try in clear cut cases. At a time when the rise of the alt right is a real concern, shunning anything that's happily complicit with members of it is a fair call, especially when it's just a one off game as opposed to a necessary lifestyle product.

Super Major spoilers *The Good Place*
Nah the show is 100% highlighting how she is a piece of shit and one of the many reasons she is sent to essentially *Hell*
ZeroX03
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:26 PM)
ZeroX03's Avatar

Originally Posted by Jazzem

Ugh, what show is that from? Unless I'm misreading it, I hate that it's implying we should never take a stand with what we purchase.

It's from The Good Place, and without context you are misreading it. She's supposed to be an asshole.

Originally Posted by Maximo

Slight spoilers for the show *The Good Place

That's more than slight lol, you don't need that last bit.
Biscotti
Junior Member
(10-13-2017, 03:26 PM)
Biscotti's Avatar
The amount of screen time his character even has is insignificant , I didn't even know it was him when I played through. A Hat In Time gets my vote but I guess if you can't handle someone with differing opinions having a very small role in a video games then I guess it's not for you. Oh btw guys, If you bought Mass effect Adromeda you are clearly a racist and agree with their game designer that said tons against white people on twitter right /s
mindatlarge
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:31 PM)
mindatlarge's Avatar
I'm not gonna throw my hat in this one with an opinion, but I'd suggest watching some gameplay videos of each or live streams and decide which looks more enjoyable to you.
Yukinari
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:32 PM)
Yukinari's Avatar

Originally Posted by KonradLaw

A Hat in Time easily. No comparision.

I finally gave in and bought the game and yeah its not even fair to bring up Yooka Laylee in this topic.

The movement and worlds alone absolutely top YL. Its so fun to simply control Hat Girl which i cant say the same for Yooka. Tightly focused level design also means you dont have gigantic worlds with nothing in them that are a chore to get around. (Much like Nuts&Bolts)

Everyone is gonna bring up Jon but you know what i bought the game because youtubers and streamers i enjoy watching said the game is fun. I assume the mod team on Gaf has kept a close eye on anybody still trying to imply that buying HiT makes you a racist.
Cyanity
Banned
(10-13-2017, 03:37 PM)
So who is this Mecha the Slag dude, and what did they do?
kliklik
Banned
(10-13-2017, 03:37 PM)
kliklik's Avatar

Originally Posted by Jazzem

Ugh, what show is that from? Unless I'm misreading it, I hate that it's implying we should never take a stand with what we purchase.

No one's under the assumption that all our modern consumption can be completely moral, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try in clear cut cases. At a time when the rise of the alt right is a real concern, shunning anything that's happily complicit with members of it is a fair call, especially when it's just a one off game as opposed to a necessary lifestyle product.

It's from The Good Place, which is a fantastic show. The premise is that Kristen Bell's character is a complete asshole, and when she gets killed, she's accidentally placed in heaven, being mistaken for someone with the same name who was actually a good person. The entire show takes place in the afterlife with her trying to avoid being found out. It's veryyyy funny. DO NOT LOOK UP SPOILERS! DO NOT READ WIKIPEDIA! It will wreck the show.

It's not as clear-cut a case as you may think. The devs are anti-Trump. They're likely just remaining silent on this issue because they're hoping it blows over and they don't have the resources or PR department to handle the blowback. If even Playtonic Games, given all their $$$$, doesn't have the resources to properly moderate their forums to remove the rampant hate speech being posted in protest of their decision to remove JonTron, do you really expect Gears for Breakfast to be able to? They probably want their game to be the least associated with racism as possible, and they might be thinking pragmatically that *not* removing those few lines of dialogue from JonTron will ensure their game is the least associated with those views as possible.

Furthermore, boycotting things that a person isn't even profiting from on the grounds that it's giving them a "platform" is... symbolic but ineffective at best. This absurdity is especially heightened when the person is most definitely being given a platform by a large company like Youtube from which they ARE profiting, and yet that's not being boycotted. It could give someone the impression this is less about taking a moral stand against giving racists a platform and more about trying to coerce a small company into kowtowing to audience demands, since a small company is more vulnerable to it.
JDM
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:41 PM)
A Hat in Time was fantastic in my opinion.

Yooka sadly wasn't. This is coming from someone who backed the Kickstarter too.
Listonosh
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:47 PM)
Listonosh's Avatar
so based on these responses, people would pay money to play a legitimately mediocre game with bad mechanics, camera angles, etc, because of a removal of a voice actor, instead of paying money for what is currently reviewing as a more superior game? I totally get the jontron hate but that's still backwards to me
ramoisdead
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:54 PM)
ramoisdead's Avatar

Originally Posted by Listonosh

so based on these responses, people would pay money to play a legitimately mediocre game with bad mechanics, camera angles, etc, because of a removal of a voice actor, instead of paying money for what is currently reviewing as a more superior game? I totally get the jontron hate but that's still backwards to me

It could be the greatest 3D platforming game in the world but if it's gonna involve a racist like JonTron without the developers putting out a statement regarding this, then yeah I rather choose another game. Since OP mentioned either AHiT or YKL, the former is better reviewed but I feel more comfortable getting the latter...if it's coming down to just those two choices.

Me personally, I'd just wait until Super Mario Odyssey comes out later this month, provided if OP has a Switch.
MarkusRJR
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:56 PM)
MarkusRJR's Avatar
Honestly I wouldn't buy A Hat in Time based on the JonTron situation alone, but holy shit I'm definitely never buying it after reading about that MaxofS2D drama. Would never support such a petty and malicious developer.

Yooka-Laylee wins by default.
Cyanity
Banned
(10-13-2017, 03:58 PM)
Is there any proof that the alt right has been openly emboldened to support this game in light of them not removing JonTron's lines? Because, as Kliklik pointed out, the devs might have noticed the giant shitstorm that brewed right after Playtonic removed JT from their game, and decided to do nothing as a result. It's entirely possible that the devs came to the conclusion that doing nothing would give the alt right one less grievance with which to feed their fake "the alt right is oppressed" campaign.

Regardless, you really can't blame a small indie studio for not wanting to kick the hive that is racist gamer shitlords. No one should be forced to choose that level of harassment, especially over three voice lines.
Prodigal Son
Member
(10-13-2017, 03:59 PM)
Prodigal Son's Avatar
Hat in time or sure. Yooka Laylee looks like an eyesore
Linkstrikesback
Member
(10-13-2017, 04:00 PM)
Linkstrikesback's Avatar
Even putting aside opinions on voice actors, I backed Yooka laylee and not a hat in time, and my opinion hasn't changed.

Yooka Tooie when?
Listonosh
Member
(10-13-2017, 04:00 PM)
Listonosh's Avatar

Originally Posted by ramoisdead

It could be the greatest 3D platforming game in the world but if it's gonna involve a racist like JonTron without the developers putting out a statement regarding this, then yeah I rather choose another game. Since OP mentioned either AHiT or YKL, the former is better reviewed but I feel more comfortable getting the latter...if it's coming down to just those two choices.

Me personally, I'd just wait until Super Mario Odyssey comes out later this month, provided if OP has a Switch.

Oh they still haven't said anything? Yikes. Bad call on their part.

Do we know the devs? Like is this their first time making a game ever? YL was ex Rare devs, so at least they've had experience working in this landscape and maybe it was just easier for them to make this change? I don't want to excuse Hat's devs by any means, but if it's some new dev who's never touched game design before this, it might make more sense? Do they have a PR team? My guess is no since they'd probably be all over that from day 1.

However, I think my statement still stands. I think I'd still rather pay for something I'd legitimately enjoy in the end.
FleetingFlowAir
Member
(10-13-2017, 04:05 PM)
Oh wow, never seen that MaxofS2D controversy before. OP, you’re probably better off getting neither and waiting for Super Mario Odyssey.
SOME-MIST
Member
(10-13-2017, 04:08 PM)
SOME-MIST's Avatar
wow I didn't realize a hat in time was actually supposed to be good. I watched one of the trailers and wasn't too impressed.

on the other hand I really enjoyed yooka laylee so it looks like I'll have to give hat a go :o
Yukinari
Member
(10-13-2017, 04:12 PM)
Yukinari's Avatar

Originally Posted by SOME-MIST

wow I didn't realize a hat in time was actually supposed to be good. I watched one of the trailers and wasn't too impressed.

on the other hand I really enjoyed yooka laylee so it looks like I'll have to give hat a go :o

The trailers really dont do the game justice.

I watched multiple people play some of it or review it before i finally bought it.
BlueMagic
Member
(10-13-2017, 04:13 PM)
BlueMagic's Avatar

Originally Posted by UnnecessaryTodd

1)
Yooka Laylee is a really really bad game. Clunky design, unappealing aesthetic (although that's subjective) and overall just a failed Banjo clone.

2)
A Hat in Time is a really really good game. Heavily inspired by 3D mario games but with lots of other good game design in there and other inspirations (The hat abilities/switching remind me a lot of Majora's Mask). Personally I always disliked being ejected from the world a la the 3D mario games, but Hat in Time justifies it with how radical the worlds change each scenario, and also thematically presenting the world in chapters and general storybook feel.

3)
Yooka Laylee devs are seemingly good people who did a good thing in removing someone from their game that said things they disagreed with

4)
A Hat in Time devs are questionable in that they did not do the above and have not commented one way or the other.

That's pretty much the only things you need to factor. You aren't a better or worse person no matter how you decide. Whatever things are important to you, base your decision on that. Don't let people give you crap for caring more about any of the above points than any other.

Just to add a different opinion, I think most of what you said about HiT is the other way around.
Physics design and movement feels great for the most part, but when playing most levels you barely get to have fun from moving.
Level design is uninspired and boring, and do not fit the mechanics overall (Mafia Town is huge but with little to no draws, and the narrow streets and claustrophobia-inducing obstacles makes running around and moving in general not fun at all). Art design is irregular in some levels (watch the signs on Mafia Town, and some of the textures). Second time piece in Mafia Town has you fighting with constrained movement and the camera somehow manages to struggle by hitting some stairs (another example of the mediocre level design). Voice acting is inconsistent as well in many ways, you can tell a lot of actors were recorded on radically different setups, and some sound straight-up bad in terms of quality. The game tries to be charming and humorous but fails by the writing being very on-the-nose and over the top (a lot of interactions are weird and do not make for fun dialogue, like the time you hear the gruesome first plan from moustache girl). Not to say all the writing sucks, though.

The game does not embrace the non-linearity and communicates things rather poorly to the player; most of the time you will be getting an item/collectible and many levels later you will be getting an explanation on what's it for (completed Time Rifts from the second and third chapter with all the images and crown things before doing the one on Mafia Town, which is the only time they explain what they are for). Same thing with Yarn balls, pretty much.
You can also get through a LOT of obstacles without having items you need (entered the chapter of the vertical mountain without having the grapple thing), but I don't see this necessarily as a bad thing.
Presentation is great but music inconsistent as well.
Moose Biscuits
It would be extreamly painful...
(10-13-2017, 04:23 PM)
If I had to buy one or the other, I've heard much better stuff about AHiT than YL, so the former. I'm not too much of a platformer dude though, I don't seek them out, and I've heard they both kind of have rough edges to them.
Jazzem
Member
(10-13-2017, 05:06 PM)
Jazzem's Avatar

Originally Posted by Maximo

Super Major spoilers *The Good Place*
Nah the show is 100% highlighting how she is a piece of shit and one of the many reasons she is sent to essentially *Hell*

Originally Posted by ZeroX03

It's from The Good Place, and without context you are misreading it. She's supposed to be an asshole.



That's more than slight lol, you don't need that last bit.

Originally Posted by kliklik

It's from The Good Place, which is a fantastic show. The premise is that Kristen Bell's character is a complete asshole, and when she gets killed, she's accidentally placed in heaven, being mistaken for someone with the same name who was actually a good person. The entire show takes place in the afterlife with her trying to avoid being found out. It's veryyyy funny. DO NOT LOOK UP SPOILERS! DO NOT READ WIKIPEDIA! It will wreck the show.

Ah cheers for context folks, and my bad for assuming the worst on it. I'll add it to the to-watch list :D
tiny raptor
Member
(10-14-2017, 08:58 AM)
tiny raptor's Avatar
Both. I will not be denied my platforming goodness, and Yooka Laylee was one of my favorite games of the year, so.

Thread Tools