• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Drillary Clinton
Banned
(10-19-2017, 03:47 PM)

Originally Posted by hampig

Alright, I guess that's what I was missing. It's the use of makeup to exaggerate stereotypical features for comedic value then. I can sort of see where people are coming from then.

Does anyone have a picture of Kanye's fish for comparison?


Kei-
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:48 PM)
Kei-'s Avatar
You are allowed to tell bad jokes. Good jokes and bad jokes come from the same place of trying to be funny.

Originally Posted by BTA

I don’t expect it to change despite my feelings on it. I would just hope that people eventually stop defending it because the fact that these points have been discussed for 10 years doesn’t make them less valid.



There is nothing admirable or excuseable about some vague goal of trying to be funny.

Bad writing of jokes is just as criticism worthy as bad writing of anything else.

Of course you can criticize it, you can not like it and not buy the game. If you don't like a joke, you get up and leave the comedy club. What you don't do, is heckle or say it shouldn't be in the game.
LotusHD
Banned
(10-19-2017, 03:48 PM)

Originally Posted by hampig

Alright, I guess that's what I was missing. It's the use of makeup to exaggerate stereotypical features for comedic value then. I can sort of see where people are coming from then.

Does anyone have a picture of Kanye's fish for comparison?

Kurdel
Banned
(10-19-2017, 03:49 PM)
Kurdel's Avatar

Originally Posted by Charlie0108

I wonder what the reaction would be like if it was the other way round and Kanye wrote a comedy rap which mocked someone's dead mother using racial stereotypes. I'm sure the same people would 100% be calling it hilarious and saying it's just comedy.

I am sure black people would tell white people how to be offended, and what constructive ways they can write to Matt and Trey instead of discussing it on Neogaf.
Piers
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:49 PM)
Piers's Avatar
This feels like a half-way necromancy of the 'Gone Gold' trailer thread. There's a lot more controversial jokes in the game and there isn't really much more to be said than it being a side quest. Even if a side quest, though, the whole thing was effectively shown already to the crowd at large in the trailer.
Dyle
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:49 PM)
Dyle's Avatar
The joke itself is fine, it's just that the depiction of Kanye's mom as a mammy stereotype, in a way that is not meant to satirize the way we handle racial/ethnic stereotyping in real life ala City Wok/the Coon, is of no value, comedic or otherwise. The only thing it can be is hurtful and thus is in uniquely bad taste far different from the satirical purposes in which other stereotypes exist within the series. Unintentional or otherwise, the depiction is racist and is presented free from satire in a way that is uncharacteristic for the series
Mendrox
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:50 PM)
Mendrox's Avatar

Originally Posted by Charlie0108

I wonder what the reaction would be like if it was the other way round and Kanye wrote a comedy rap which mocked someone's dead mother using racial stereotypes. I'm sure the same people would 100% be calling it hilarious and saying it's just comedy.

Dunno you mean lyrics like these?

I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex
Why? I made that bitch famous


For all the girls that got dick from Kanye West
If you see ‘em in the streets give ‘em Kanye’s bests
Why? They mad they ain’t famous

But it's okay in Rap. Not completely the same but I wouldn't be able to count how many women this guy offended and insulted. Does NOT excuse this in South Park .
Papo Swing
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:50 PM)
Papo Swing's Avatar
I guess it is a good measuring stick for our society that people are being outraged over this and South Park in 2017.
BTA
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:50 PM)
BTA's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mendrox

I can see these points, but these are the same points which were discussed and in controvery over 10 years ago too. South Park won't change because of that. South Park makes fun of everything and that won't change.

I don’t expect it to change despite my feelings on it. I would just hope that people eventually stop defending it because the fact that these points have been discussed for 10 years doesn’t make them less valid.

Originally Posted by Kei-

You are allowed to tell bad jokes. Good jokes and bad jokes come from the same place of trying to be funny.

There is nothing admirable or excuseable about some vague goal of trying to be funny.

Bad writing of jokes is just as criticism worthy as bad writing of anything else.
kahi
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:51 PM)
kahi's Avatar
Yes it should be in the game
Charlie0108
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:52 PM)
Charlie0108's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mendrox

Dunno you mean lyrics like these?



But it's okay in Rap. Not completely the same but I wouldn't be able to count how many women this guy offended and insulted. Does NOT excuse this in South Park .

But there was massive controversy over these lyrics and they were pretty widely condemned?
BTA
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:52 PM)
BTA's Avatar

Originally Posted by Papo Swing

I guess it is a good measuring stick for our society that people are being outraged over this and South Park in 2017.

I guess it is a good measuring stick of our society that people still write off any criticism or annoyance or frustration or disappointment over anything as “outrage” in 2017.
Kyzer
Banned
(10-19-2017, 03:52 PM)
Kyzer's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mendrox

Dunno you mean lyrics like these?



But it's okay in Rap. Not completely the same but I wouldn't be able to count how many women this guy offended and insulted. Does NOT excuse this in South Park .

But Taylor gave him permission to say that stuff and said it was like a compliment

Or was it that she refused and warned him against having such strong misogynistic lyrics

I don't remember

🐍
Village
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:52 PM)
Village's Avatar

Originally Posted by kahi

Yes it should be in the game

ok, you wanna elaborate on your point?
Kurdel
Banned
(10-19-2017, 03:52 PM)
Kurdel's Avatar

Originally Posted by Papo Swing

I guess it is a good measuring stick for our society that people are being outraged over this and South Park in 2017.

Jokes about 4 year old news using racist imagery should offend anyone with half a brain in 2017.

Also, it’s a Flappy Bird parody, how lame is that?
Dipper145
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:53 PM)
Dipper145's Avatar
I feel like if one has concerns over this joke, it should be extended to south park in general in a lot of cases..
Unclebenny
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:54 PM)
Unclebenny's Avatar
I wish some people didn't just use "It's South Park" as a defence.

The intention behind a joke doesn't excuse the joke.

If I make a joke with loads of the N- word in, I can't defend it by saying "it's supposed to be racist".
Drillary Clinton
Banned
(10-19-2017, 03:54 PM)
Yes there was a controversy over those lyrics and it boiled into another chapter of the Kanye/Taylor feud. Kim and Kanye claimed Taylor had been contacted about the lyrics and was ok with them, Taylor then denied this but it was proven that she lied and in fact did ok the line.
Kusagari
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:57 PM)
Kusagari's Avatar
What is actually the joke?

That she's a black woman, so they made her a racial stereotype? If Ye's fish was also in black face it would actually be more defensible. But they seem to have just made his mother a "Mammy" because...reasons.
Papo Swing
Member
(10-19-2017, 03:58 PM)
Papo Swing's Avatar

Originally Posted by BTA

I guess it is a good measuring stick of our society that people still write off any criticism or annoyance or frustration or disappointment over anything as “outrage” in 2017.

Well, I saw the video and I see nothing racist other than people pointing out the color of the fish is black. The color black in a fish depicting a black person is not racist in any way.

So yes it is outrage IMO. South Park has done a lot worse and this wasn't even bad. The voice they gave her was even one of the voices/styles they've used before and the minigame was about making sure Kanye Fish mom got to heaven.

I am sorry. Only someone viewing this out of context would think this is racist.


Originally Posted by Kurdel

Jokes about 4-year-old news using racist imagery should offend anyone with half a brain in 2017.

Also, it’s a Flappy Bird parody, how lame is that?

The color black is not automatically racist now I'm sorry. WTH

How sensitive do we have to get when the color black used on an animal to represent a black person is seen as racist .
Mendrox
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:01 PM)
Mendrox's Avatar

Originally Posted by Drillary Clinton

Yes there was a controversy over those lyrics and it boiled into another chapter of the Kanye/Taylor feud. Kim and Kanye claimed Taylor had been contacted about the lyrics and was ok with them, Taylor then denied this but it was proven that she lied and in fact did ok the line.

Ehh.. that was not really my point. I could have shown many of his lyrics that are like this.

I know it’s corny bitches you wish you could unfollow
I know it’s corny niggas you wish you could unswallow

My ex said she gave me the best years of her life
Seen a recent picture of her and I guess she was right

But that is not really the point of this thread.
140.85
Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
(10-19-2017, 04:02 PM)
140.85's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mendrox

Kanye himself is a green fish. His mom is obviously blackface (black, big lips, red lipstick) and also she is dead in real life. The whole joke is how absurd the whole thing is and well Se(a)m(a)n himself is a joke too. There would be no outrage if she would be green too and not like the typical blackface cartoon character from the 80s/90s.

They most likely thought the joke wouldn't have worked visually if she was green like him since they're trying to reference the Kanye game.
BTA
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:04 PM)
BTA's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kei-

Of course you can criticize it, you can not like it and not buy the game. If you don't like a joke, you get up and leave the comedy club. What you don't do, is heckle or say it shouldn't be in the game.

Mhmmm, nah, actually, I am in fact allowed to say I think it’s bad and should not have been put in the game. That is, after all, free speech.

...I also don’t understand the comparison to heckling (which, if you feel strongly enough about something, is a form of protest that I’m not going to inherently disagree with in absolutely all instances even if in those cases I still think it won’t go over well) as it is not disrupting a live performance (not that there’s anything inherently valuable or morally good about that), nor causing trouble for the people around me, etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Unclebenny

I wish some people didn't just use "It's South Park" as a defence.

The intention behind a joke doesn't excuse the joke.

If I make a joke with loads of the N- word in, I can't defend it by saying "it's supposed to be racist".

No, see, if you also make a joke about Trump occasionally then it’s totally fine because you’re just trying to be funny in general then. For some reason.
Kurdel
Banned
(10-19-2017, 04:06 PM)
Kurdel's Avatar

Originally Posted by Papo Swing

The color black is not automatically racist now I'm sorry. WTH

How sensitive do we have to get when the color black used on an animal to represent a black person is seen as racist .

Oh, you think the issue is only the color of the fish? Did you even read this thread?
FZW
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:10 PM)
FZW's Avatar

Originally Posted by Marcel

Pretty sure it doesn't. I'm almost certain everyone forgot about this "controversy" until you wanted to manufacture a reaction to it again.

I sure as hell didn't.


its a mean-spirited joke with a hint of racism. That's not something I forget.
hangdang69
Junior Member
(10-19-2017, 04:11 PM)
I thought it was funny ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Papo Swing
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
Papo Swing's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kurdel

Oh, you think the issue is only the color of the fish? Did you even read this thread?

I did not read all of the comments in the thread but a lot of it. I see that they are saying she has the blackface eyes which is bullshit because green colored Kanye fish has the same eyes.

The thread is mostly reaching for controversy IMO. The actual mini game is about getting Kanye Fish's mom to heaven in a farting unicorn.

The only racist thing people are pointing out are the color and eyes which I think are not racist and the voice which is a voice style used before in south park beofre to represent other characters too.

So explain it to me because I don't get the point. I still think people are overreacting over nothing.

Now if they had insulted his dead mom and made an actual racist joke of it? Then I get, but appears to be racist to some people on a board does not make it racist.
arab
(10-19-2017, 04:18 PM)
arab's Avatar

Originally Posted by Papo Swing

I did not read all of the comments in the thread but a lot of it. I see that they are saying she has the blackface eyes which is bullshit because green colored Kanye fish has the same eyes.

The thread is mostly reaching for controversy IMO. The actual mini game is about getting Kanye Fish's mom to heaven in a farting unicorn.

The only racist thing people are pointing out are the color and eyes which I think are not racist and the voice which is a voice style used before in south park beofre to represent other characters too.

So explain it to me because I don't get the point. I still think people are overreacting over nothing.

Now if they had insulted his dead mom and made an actual racist joke of it? Then I get, but appears to be racist to some people on a board does not make it racist.

please continue overlooking black skin with large red lips as "color black and eyes"
Kei-
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:18 PM)
Kei-'s Avatar

Originally Posted by BTA

Mhmmm, nah, actually, I am in fact allowed to say I think it’s bad and should not have been put in the game. That is, after all, free speech.

...I also don’t understand the comparison to heckling (which, if you feel strongly enough about something, is a form of protest that I’m not going to inherently disagree with in absolutely all instances even if in those cases I still think it won’t go over well) as it is not disrupting a live performance (not that there’s anything inherently valuable or morally good about that), nor causing trouble for the people around me, etc. etc.



No, see, if you also make a joke about Trump occasionally then it’s totally fine because you’re just trying to be funny in general then. For some reason.

Fair enough, I misspoke, you can say that it shouldn't be in the game. As far as heckling, it's completely selfish. If you want to protest get up and leave, if you want to take it further, protest and voice your opinions outside, or you will be removed by security anyway.

The comparison, though not direct, is the fact that a heckler alters and usually ruins the performance for the many others around them because it's not to their liking. That's what removing it does. Something something don't tell a man he can't have steak because a baby can't chew it.
Anarky
Banned
(10-19-2017, 04:19 PM)
I'm suddenly reminded of that thread where the cockroach monsters in a manga we're clearly based off stereotypes of black people but ppl swore up and down "I just don't see it" even though it was really blatant.
Soul of the Beast
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:19 PM)
Soul of the Beast's Avatar
What are you gonna do if I say no? Burn down their studio?

Some jokes went a bit too far and it's NOT okay, but there's really no point being obsessed about it.

It's like stepping on someone's toe, it's not okay but what are you gonna do? Kill the guy?
Papo Swing
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:21 PM)
Papo Swing's Avatar

Originally Posted by arab

please continue overlooking black skin with large red lips as "color black and eyes"

Cool, I'll see myself out since I disagree.

Only thing I take from this is some people want to be insulted for others.

Pushing the line? For sure that is South Park's way but I still don't think it is very racist or demeaning.
Kurdel
Banned
(10-19-2017, 04:21 PM)
Kurdel's Avatar

Originally Posted by Papo Swing

Now if they had insulted his dead mom and made an actual racist joke of it? Then I get, but appears to be racist to some people on a board does not make it racist.

I have to realize people who make racist jokes, or jokes based on racist imagery like this one, will continually deny they are being racist or insensitive.

Claiming we should only speak up when there is an « actual racist joke » is fucking ridiculous, because they are impossible to pin down, thanks to people constantly shifting goalposts and excusing shitty content like this.

Originally Posted by Papo Swing

Pushing the line? For sure that is South Park's way but I still don't think it is very racist or demeaning.

I am a white canadian and I find it racist because I understand the historical context.

Can’t imagine many african americans laughing this off an applauding them for « pushing the line ».
Martinski43
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:25 PM)
Martinski43's Avatar
I myself loved the whole gay fish segment with him and Seaman lol.

His rants after on coonstagram and while sitting with Seaman at the microbrew afterwards was funny as shit too.

This whole segment was just South Park weird as fuck taken to 11.
arab
(10-19-2017, 04:26 PM)
arab's Avatar

Originally Posted by Papo Swing

Cool, I'll see myself out since I disagree.

Only thing I take from this is some people want to be insulted for others.

Pushing the line? For sure that is South Park's way but I still don't think it is very racist or demeaning.

what fucking line are you talking about? these jokes/caricatures have been around for over a century they're beating a dead racist horse
BTA
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:28 PM)
BTA's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kei-

Fair enough, I misspoke, you can say that it shouldn't be in the game. As far as heckling, it's completely selfish. If you want to protest get up and leave, if you want to take it further, protest and voice your opinions outside, or you will be removed by security anyway.

The comparison, though not direct, is the fact that a heckler alters and usually ruins the performance for the many others around them because it's not to their liking. That's what removing it does. Something something don't tell a man he can't have steak because a baby can't chew it.

To be clear, I’m not saying they should patch it out or something. I’m saying it’s a bad idea that they shouldn’t have had to begin with and certainly shouldn’t have put in the game (among many other things).

Also, c’mon dude, a racist joke mocking someone wanting to make a tribute to their late mother (whose passing significantly impacted their life) isn’t really an essential part of the game that only a true mature adult values or something something, is it?

And if a comedian made a joke that shitty live I would sorta hope someone would speak up.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
(10-19-2017, 04:28 PM)
Spirit of Jazz's Avatar

Originally Posted by 140.85

They most likely thought the joke wouldn't have worked visually if she was green like him since they're trying to reference the Kanye game.

If she was green then it would be more than apparent that she was Kanye's mom because she'd have the same skin colour as him... plus you know, he directly refers to her as mom.

Also by the same logic the joke doesn't work visually because Kanye isn't black too.

Originally Posted by Kei-

You are allowed to tell bad jokes. Good jokes and bad jokes come from the same place of trying to be funny.

Of course you can criticize it, you can not like it and not buy the game. If you don't like a joke, you get up and leave the comedy club. What you don't do, is heckle or say it shouldn't be in the game.

Good jokes and racist jokes come from the same place. If you're going to use joke based around minorities you need to be careful with them, especially if you're a couple of white guys. Lindsey Ellis did a great video on Mel Brooks and covers why this line of thought is an issue here.

Beyond that part of criticism is being free to say it's racist and shouldn't be used. That anybody who is okay with this kind of thing should seriously reconsider their view instead of just pretending like it's not intentionally racist or not caring about it because they're not the group being targeted.
otakukidd
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:31 PM)
otakukidd's Avatar

Originally Posted by hampig

Alright, I guess that's what I was missing. It's the use of makeup to exaggerate stereotypical features for comedic value then. I can sort of see where people are coming from then.

Does anyone have a picture of Kanye's fish for comparison?

It's the same model. They just added lipsitck, changed it's color to back and added earrings
BTA
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:33 PM)
BTA's Avatar

Originally Posted by arab

what fucking line are you talking about? these jokes/caricatures have been around for over a century they're beating a dead racist horse

Every time someone mentions pushing “boundaries” or “the line” I have to wonder how they can possibly think pushing back against “maybe we should be decent to marginalized people” is progressive or unique in any way.
Akronis
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:34 PM)
Akronis's Avatar
This isn't satire. You can't just throw in blackface and say "look it's funny now." What's the actual joke supposed to be here? Being offensive isn't funny.

Lot of people in this thread defending blackface...
Alter_Fridge
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:36 PM)
Alter_Fridge's Avatar
What about Catatafish?

Spurs
Junior Member
(10-19-2017, 04:38 PM)
It's South Park... They make fun of everything and anything. You can pick and choose what you find offensive but lets not pretend that south park has ever gave a fuck. It's always been awful jokes about serious things, and that's why people like it
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
(10-19-2017, 04:38 PM)
Spirit of Jazz's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kei-

As far as heckling, it's completely selfish. If you want to protest get up and leave, if you want to take it further, protest and voice your opinions outside, or you will be removed by security anyway.

The comparison, though not direct, is the fact that a heckler alters and usually ruins the performance for the many others around them because it's not to their liking. That's what removing it does. Something something don't tell a man he can't have steak because a baby can't chew it.

Yeah, that's certainly not always the case. If somebody enjoys blatantly racist jokes I don't just stand by like it's okay, I've literally ditched friends for it.

Originally Posted by Spurs

It's South Park... They make fun of everything and anything. You can pick and choose what you find offensive but lets not pretend that south park has ever gave a fuck. It's always been awful jokes about serious things, and that's why people like it

What people want is for those people to ask why they find it funny e.g. why is Coonstagram a hilarious joke or social commentary beyond the fact it's fun to say racial slurs?
FZW
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:42 PM)
FZW's Avatar
tbh I'm more offended by the fact that they're making fun of the man's dead mother. They are also making fun of him doing a tribute to his lost mother.... I really don't see how anybody with a soul can laugh at that.

The blackface thing could possibly be unintentional. But they literally think its cool to make fun of this man's loss because of some childish agenda they have against him.

I like Southpark but this is one of those times they're more offensive than funny.
pantsmith
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:43 PM)
pantsmith's Avatar
Could have just made her the same color as her fish son and it would have been exactly the same, minus the problematic depiction.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:46 PM)
WhiskeyKnight's Avatar

Originally Posted by arab

please continue overlooking black skin with large red lips as "color black and eyes"

See I read the red lips as mostly a gender signifier to let the player know the fish is supposed to be female.
Akronis
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:48 PM)
Akronis's Avatar

Originally Posted by pantsmith

Could have just made her the same color as her fish son and it would have been exactly the same, minus the problematic depiction.

Yup. They knew what they were doing.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:48 PM)
WhiskeyKnight's Avatar
Oops, double post, sorry.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
(10-19-2017, 04:49 PM)
AndrewDean84xX's Avatar
Looks like a South park fish with lipstick and earnings to show us it's a female fish.

What's more insulting (and funny) are the Jewish stereotypes from Kyle's cousin early on.

South Park likes to poke fun at the human race, no matter the ethnicity or religion. I mean fuck, the Catholic Priests the want to molest you with rosary anal beads, fuck, lol.

I love this game.
kewlmyc
Member
(10-19-2017, 04:50 PM)
kewlmyc's Avatar
Yeah, it's blackface, but it's South Park so it doesn't shock me in the slightest considering all the offensive stuff they've known for doing.

Thread Tools