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JoeMartin · Sep 17, 2015

Yeh. This is the equivalent of a hota barb complaining that he can't keep up with a ww barb while farming grift keys.

Wizard is up to GR69. This is perfectly acceptable as the "top" tier GR72 clears are completely dependent on A) god tier mobset + density, or B) god tier stricken/EP snapshots.

twobear · Sep 17, 2015

The game still isn't very fun in its current state, even if I'll have marginally more to contribute at GR50+.

Celegus · Sep 17, 2015

eek5 said:
BTW some of these complainers are hypocritical as fuck. In season 1 I played WD and it was in a really fucking bad spot and you know what some of the people whining right now did? They just stopped playing with me, period. I tried to switch classes and they just pretended like I didn't exist so don't expect some sympathy from me because your class falls off at GR55 lmao. When I'm running rifts my games are always open. If you want to switch classes just come get some shared loot.

eek you were dead to me season 1 from day 1.

godelsmetric said:
The game still isn't very fun in its current state, even if I'll have marginally more to contribute at GR50+.

Maybe consider something else then? I hear them Metal Gears are pretty sweet. Diablo is still tickling me in all the right places and only getting better, this many years later.

Dahbomb · Sep 17, 2015

Now the complaints make sense if your frame of reference are GR40s. At that level it's really more about who moves around the map faster because everyone should have DPS that just one shots everything.

Maybe linking to your gear/build would be more constructive here.

JoeMartin · Sep 17, 2015

godelsmetric said:
The game still isn't very fun in its current state, even if I'll have marginally more to contribute at GR50+.

The game has only continued to improve with every successive patch since RoS launched, and I'm definitely having fun with it. There are more viable classes and builds now than there have ever been and I'm sorry that you can't see past feeling slighted by Wizard not having a bigger number than other classes' numbers.

twobear · Sep 17, 2015

Dahbomb said:
Now the complaints make sense if your frame of reference are GR40s. At that level it's really more about how moves around the map faster because everyone should have DPS that just one shots everything.

I don't have DPS that one-shots everything?

I don't think my itemization is very poor, but I can only blow up whole rooms once I've stacked triumvirate, trapped stuff in slow time and, and I wait until convention of elements rolls onto Cold.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/godelmetric-1562/hero/66334209

JoeMartin said:
The game has only continued to improve with every successive patch since RoS launched, and I'm definitely having fun with it. There are more viable classes and builds now than there have ever been and I'm sorry that you can't see past feeling slighted by Wizard not having a bigger number than other classes' numbers.

As I said, it's a lot of fun solo. The game isn't fun because there's nothing for me to contribute when I'm playing with other people.

eek5 · Sep 17, 2015

joesmokey said:
S1 I didn't even do competitive group play though... All I focused on was solo leaderboard and T6 runs.

bro you wouldn't even farm t6 with me to get rift keys

Celegus said:
eek you were dead to me season 1 from day 1.

;_;

godelsmetric said:
As I said, it's a lot of fun solo. The game isn't fun because there's nothing for me to contribute when I'm playing with other people.

Honestly it sounds like you're playing with somebody that makes the game not fun. Playing with a U6 monk that is way overgeared for the difficulty level you're on is always going to be like that no matter what class you're on.

Celegus · Sep 17, 2015

You... don't have any legendary gems? Rerolled exp onto your RoRG? Res on amulet?Uhhhh...

twobear · Sep 17, 2015

Celegus said:
You... don't have any legendary gems? Rerolled exp onto your RoRG? Res on amulet?Uhhhh...

Yes, mistakes were made when I didn't understand the reroll system. I'm looking for a new RROG at the moment. And my amulet situation is weird at the moment, I don't actually know what the one I currently have equipped is, it had a bane of the Stricken in it before. I think the proper amulet is in my stash.

JoeMartin · Sep 17, 2015

You need Vyr's + Chantodo's sets. Even modestly geared you'll be spamming 5-10b hits while in archon.

Here is a decent starting guide for it. Figure what works best for you with the gear you have from there.

twobear · Sep 17, 2015

JoeMartin said:
You need Vyr's + Chantodo's sets. Even modestly geared you'll be spamming 5-10b hits while in archon.

But I like dropping meteors on things

eek5 said:
Honestly it sounds like you're playing with somebody that makes the game not fun. Playing with a U6 monk that is way overgeared for the difficulty level you're on is always going to be like that no matter what class you're on.

It's not my friend's fault that U6 is dumb.

JoeMartin · Sep 17, 2015

U6 looks dumb at low difficulty because you can get away with cubing madstone and rolling your face on dashing strike and sss. Playing the build at anything that is a relevant tier requires far more finesse and has a very high real skill potential.

If you want to be mad at anything in particular for being mindless be mad at hota.

godelsmetric said:
But I like dropping meteors on things

A different gear set for every occasion. If relevant damage at higher tier grifts is what you want, Vyr's + Chantodo is where you have to go.

twobear · Sep 17, 2015

JoeMartin said:
A different gear set for every occasion. If relevant damage at higher tier grifts is what you want, Vyr's + Chantodo is where you have to go.

I'll look into it, I guess. I have some bits of Vyr's and the Chantodo source.

StMeph · Sep 17, 2015

godelsmetric said:
The game still isn't very fun in its current state, even if I'll have marginally more to contribute at GR50+.

After the other posts, this is basically "I don't actually know how to play my class" / "the game doesn't reward me for playing how I want to".

Raticus79 · Sep 17, 2015

I was just thinking about the server CPU workload issues they're running into and it's probably one of the reasons they're keeping exp bonus gear in the game. If two players are running support gear in GR, that cuts down on the number of attacks they need to process.

I bet the meetings around this are interesting.

twobear · Sep 17, 2015

StMeph said:
After the other posts, this is basically "I don't actually know how to play my class" / "the game doesn't reward me for playing how I want to".

I'm always down for taking advice. I actually made a post asking for it on the first page of this thread.

Armaros · Sep 17, 2015

Raticus79 said:
I was just thinking about the server CPU workload issues they're running into and it's probably one of the reasons they're keeping exp bonus gear in the game. If two players are running support gear in GR, that cuts down on the number of attacks they need to process.

I bet the meetings around this are interesting.

Most of the server issues stem from them fixing (or trying to) area damage to scale properly with damage buffs, along with many new forms of short term dynamic damage buffs. They have added a large number of short duration buffs to make things more dynamic.

F/R, short duration set bonuses etc, and all their interactions with Area Damage, especially with regards to DoT damage. The servers having to dynamically recalculate lots and lots of instances of DoT and Area damage with these short buffs is causing huge chains of calculations. Like people are actually pausing the game in the middle of huge mob packs in high level Grifts to let the servers catch with the damage on the screen, its all pure calculations burden instead of latency based lag.

Dahbomb · Sep 17, 2015

godelsmetric said:
I don't have DPS that one-shots everything?

I don't think my itemization is very poor, but I can only blow up whole rooms once I've stacked triumvirate, trapped stuff in slow time and, and I wait until convention of elements rolls onto Cold.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/godelmetric-1562/hero/66334209

Well I can already see the problems here.

First of all I don't really see the point of having 2 piece Tal Rashas when most of your damage is going to be coming from Frozen Orbs while they are in the Time Bubble. That's why you are never going to be able to speed farm with that set... it requires too much set up. That's not a Wizard limitation, that's a build limitation. Your build is more centered around control play because setting up Bubbles is essential for Delsere.

If you want a faster builds, use Tal Rashas 6pc or Vyr's set. Vyr's set is pretty "dumb" because it gives you high toughness and damage as long as you get the gear pieces. Tal Rasha is also big damage as long as you learn the rotation, the rest you can make up with Aether walker.

If you really want to stick with Delsere and also use Meteors then you should try 6 pc Talrasha and 4 pc Delsere with the Nilfur Boots. Cube the Ring and use Focus and Restraint while cubing stuff like Gesture of Orpheus and Crown of the Primus (instead of that glove you have cubed in there). Like why do you have Halo when you are doing content that is quickly cleared? Use F+R for maximum damage, that's pretty much essential for even Delsere 6 pc set.

Next let's talk about the Legendary gems or the lack thereof. You are only using Bane of the Trapped and even that is only lvl27. You should have 3 Legendary gems and they should be at least 40 by now (if you play 45 GRs on the regular).

Your Amulet is also pretty bad which is a huge source of DPS and your Glove isn't properly rolled either (where are the crits?) Bracers don't have elemental damage, Helm doesn't have crit + spender bonus (meteor or frozen orb depending on spec), Boots also don't have spender bonus. neither rings have double crit and even your regular gems aren't fully upgraded yet. You are leaving a lot of DPS off the table with your items, there's great room for improvement here.

Plus you are not even Paragon 200 yet. I didn't complete my U6 until I was almost P300. Does TX even unlock before P200? I don't know how far along your friend is but comparing yourself to a top tier build is getting a bit ahead of yourself at this early stage of the game. It would be like me complaining about Barbs at P200 while I am still running around with 4pc SWK.

Lain · Sep 18, 2015

I can't seem to manage to clear solo GR54 on time on my non-season wizard. Was trying to do a 53 and then the server died on me mid-run.
I was pretty happy with the Aether Walker I finally managed to create with the cube so I could use the furnace effect or the 50% reduction on meteor costs but I still sucked just as I did with my ancient SS with cubed Aether Walker. Well, I sucked less but I still didn't clear on time. Apart from a better Tal rasha neck and Halo, is there something I should try to replace? I tried changing gems, like using Taeguk instead of Gizzard but I just don't find it comfortable to keep Taeguk going.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Lain-2267/hero/105408

eek5 · Sep 18, 2015

godelsmetric said:
It's not my friend's fault that U6 is dumb.

That's the nature of a game like this. One guy gets lucky, hits the jackpot and leaves all his friends in the dust lol. Have you told him it isn't fun? There are other monk builds he could play to keep you more involved but maybe he thinks you like chasing him around picking up loot or whatever. Just sayin.

I've had people tell me it isn't fun to play with my WD because everything is dead and I move so fast and I just tell them to fuck off but I'm pretty inconsiderate. Maybe your friend isn't

Raticus79 said:
I was just thinking about the server CPU workload issues they're running into and it's probably one of the reasons they're keeping exp bonus gear in the game. If two players are running support gear in GR, that cuts down on the number of attacks they need to process.

I bet the meetings around this are interesting.

Some people did a GR77 run with 2 carni wds and two support. The the single target DPS guy (0% bonus area dmg) would actually TP to town when it got too dense and let the guy with 105% area dmg clear because of lag so maybe 2-3 support is the future!

twobear · Sep 18, 2015

Dahbomb said:
Well I can already see the problems here.

First of all I don't really see the point of having 2 piece Tal Rashas when most of your damage is going to be coming from Frozen Orbs while they are in the Time Bubble. That's why you are never going to be able to speed farm with that set... it requires too much set up. That's not a Wizard limitation, that's a build limitation. Your build is more centered around control play because setting up Bubbles is essential for Delsere.

If you want a faster builds, use Tal Rashas 6pc or Vyr's set. Vyr's set is pretty "dumb" because it gives you high toughness and damage as long as you get the gear pieces. Tal Rasha is also big damage as long as you learn the rotation, the rest you can make up with Aether walker.

If you really want to stick with Delsere and also use Meteors then you should try 6 pc Talrasha and 4 pc Delsere with the Nilfur Boots. Cube the Ring and use Focus and Restraint while cubing stuff like Gesture of Orpheus and Crown of the Primus (instead of that glove you have cubed in there). Like why do you have Halo when you are doing content that is quickly cleared? Use F+R for maximum damage, that's pretty much essential for even Delsere 6 pc set.

Next let's talk about the Legendary gems or the lack thereof. You are only using Bane of the Trapped and even that is only lvl27. You should have 3 Legendary gems and they should be at least 40 by now (if you play 45 GRs on the regular).

Your Amulet is also pretty bad which is a huge source of DPS and your Glove isn't properly rolled either (where are the crits?) Bracers don't have elemental damage, Helm doesn't have crit + spender bonus (meteor or frozen orb depending on spec), Boots also don't have spender bonus. neither rings have double crit and even your regular gems aren't fully upgraded yet. You are leaving a lot of DPS off the table with your items, there's great room for improvement here.

Plus you are not even Paragon 200 yet. I didn't complete my U6 until I was almost P300. Does TX even unlock before P200? I don't know how far along your friend is but comparing yourself to a top tier build is getting a bit ahead of yourself at this early stage of the game. It would be like me complaining about Barbs at P200 while I am still running around with 4pc SWK.

Thanks for the tips. A lot of that stuff I don't actually have (I'm looking for more TR) at the moment. I'll keep a look out for it. Like I said I only just got back into D3 with the new season a couple of weeks ago and I don't know a lot of the game mechanics yet.

My friend is around Paragon 250 I think fwiw.

Rhaknar · Sep 18, 2015

So here's a noob question. When you have your set "done" (you have every piece you need even if they aren't good rolls, the 3 leg gems even if they aren't 25 yet etc), what's the next big dps boost?

Is it a ancient version of your main weapon since your big spenders usually are a % of weapon dmg and ancients have alot more damage?

Celegus · Sep 18, 2015

Rhaknar said:
So here's a noob question. When you have your set "done" (you have every piece you need even if they aren't good rolls, the 3 leg gems even if they aren't 25 yet etc), what's the next big dps boost?

Is it a ancient version of your main weapon since your big spenders usually are a % of weapon dmg and ancients have alot more damage?

Ancient weapons or bust! Get to work cubing!

eek5 said:
;_;

I joined seasons finally so it's all <3 now!

Firemind · Sep 18, 2015

Celegus said:
Ancient weapons or bust! Get to work cubing!

If you have gifts. Otherwise they're just going to collect dust in your stash.

eek5 · Sep 18, 2015

Rhaknar said:
So here's a noob question. When you have your set "done" (you have every piece you need even if they aren't good rolls, the 3 leg gems even if they aren't 25 yet etc), what's the next big dps boost?

Is it a ancient version of your main weapon since your big spenders usually are a % of weapon dmg and ancients have alot more damage?

First upgrade all your regular gems because that bonus is "free" basically. Gems drop everywhere and gold is meaningless so get that main stat.

Ancient weapon is the biggest jump but I wouldn't gamble shards on that or jewlery at first because they're so expensive and you have upgrade elsewhere. Save all your rare weapons that you need ancient upgrades to and upgrade rare in the cube. Use your blood shards upgrading armor pieces (usually start with shoulders, boots, pants) to get ancient versions of them. this isn't a huge boost but these are some of the easier ones to get ancients on and the stats aren't as picky on these. You can get really bad ancient gloves but getting a terribly rolled ancient boot is a lot more rare if that makes sense.

Also craft a hellfire amulet. Depending on the class you have, adding a 5th passive could be a huge defensive or offensive boost so it's worth while to get something usable here. Kind of annoying RNG but at least it comes with a socket so you have one thing out of the way.

Level your gems to 25+. It makes a difference.

Pyros_Eien · Sep 18, 2015

Firemind said:
If you have gifts. Otherwise they're just going to collect dust in your stash.

You can definitely use ancient weapons even without a gift, but wether or not they'll be usable after or if you'll need yet another once you find a gift kinda depends on your luck on rolls and the weapon. For example if it rolls with a decent damage roll, you can change the least important stat into a socket and use it like that, then once you get a gift reroll the socket into another useful stat and gift it, but if it rolls with bad base damage, the weapon can become useless. Still worth using until you get a perfect rolled ancient though.

This is especially true if your build doesn't rely on a specific weapon/the specific weapon can be cubed instead of furnace until you get a gift.

Dahbomb · Sep 18, 2015

godelsmetric said:
Thanks for the tips. A lot of that stuff I don't actually have (I'm looking for more TR) at the moment. I'll keep a look out for it. Like I said I only just got back into D3 with the new season a couple of weeks ago and I don't know a lot of the game mechanics yet.

My friend is around Paragon 250 I think fwiw.

If you don't know a lot of the game's mechanics then I would highly suggest watching some guide videos and explanation of various stats. Then watch some build guide videos and try to figure out why certain choices were made in the build. Some stuff isn't as obvious especially when figuring out multiplier vs additive damage bonuses.

Here's a good video to watch for a Vyr's Wizard build:

http://youtu.be/b4FyIhI7wHQ

joesmokey · Sep 18, 2015

eek5 said:
bro you wouldn't even farm t6 with me to get rift keys

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. You can ask Raticus or Serpent. We never excluded anybody.

Armaros · Sep 18, 2015

So my season WD went from an DoD and Carnevil, to full Zumi, F/R, SMK and MoJ in a 2 days

ElyrionX · Sep 18, 2015

Just started working onmy Crusader now that my Wiz and DH are nearly done. Am I crazy?

twobear · Sep 18, 2015

what's the best way to get forgotten souls?

eek5 · Sep 18, 2015

Carni WD is fucking brutal. IDK how people solo GR this build. Have to fish so hard to even have a chance.

StMeph · Sep 18, 2015

godelsmetric said:
I'm always down for taking advice. I actually made a post asking for it on the first page of this thread.

Ahh, the old Linux-sucks-because-it-can't-do-<blank>-like-Windows method of "asking", yes.

Pyros_Eien · Sep 18, 2015

godelsmetric said:
what's the best way to get forgotten souls?

Greater rifts I'd say is the most consistent, if you clear decently high quickly. Want 3-5mins clears on like 40+ then you can get a lot of bloodshards(which you then gamble for legendaries/upgrades) as well as 3-5legendaries every run, and a chance to upgrade your legendary gems while you're at it. Downside obviously is greater rift keys, so otherwise you can just do rifts. Bounties aren't too bad either on T7, you get 5 guaranteed legendaries per clear, usually 1 or 2 as drops from random stuff or the bonus caches and some bloodshards. Need to do split bounties though in a full group so it takes like 20ish mins, if you solo it's slow as hell.

Really, anything you do will yield forgotten souls, it's just not particularily fast.

twobear · Sep 18, 2015

StMeph said:
Ahh, the old Linux-sucks-because-it-can't-do-<blank>-like-Windows method of "asking", yes.

?

I made a post on the first page of this thread asking for build advice, idk what more you want me to say.

[edit] And I just had two pieces of Tal'rasha drop from a single boss, yaaaas queen

ZenaxPure · Sep 18, 2015

joesmokey said:
This isn't whining about barbs, so I don't know why you see this as a personal attack.

This is about the current meta of the game and how Blizzard chooses to balance classes.

Wasn't really responding to you specifically, godels posts were the crazy ones.

That said though as for the meta of the game I really have no problem with the support vs. dps stuff myself. I find group based games more engaging when there are roles involved and D3 is no exception to it. Especially because I tend to enjoy the support role a lot more than the dps role in D3 (when in a group, solo is a different story). Actually find it a shame that it's pointless in low level content like T10.

eek5 · Sep 18, 2015

ZenaxPure said:
Wasn't really responding to you specifically, godels posts were the crazy ones.

That said though as for the meta of the game I really have no problem with the support vs. dps stuff myself. I find group based games more engaging when there are roles involved and D3 is no exception to it. Especially because I tend to enjoy the support role a lot more than the dps role in D3 (when in a group, solo is a different story). Actually find it a shame that it's pointless in low level content like T10.

Too late to remove support classes now anyway. There are some people that enjoy playing that role and only that role.

twobear · Sep 18, 2015

ZenaxPure said:
Wasn't really responding to you specifically, godels posts were the crazy ones.

What's crazy about saying it would be cute if the support class and the DPS class...weren't the same class?

ZenaxPure · Sep 18, 2015

eek5 said:
Too late to remove support classes now anyway. There are some people that enjoy playing that role and only that role.

Plus I really don't see how removing support builds would change the meta anyway. D3 is not a game with defined roles like other group based games have, support is just an arbitrary word we toss out there because support builds don't contribute damage directly.

I'm stating the obvious here but support builds aren't used in groups because they are support. They are used in groups because they offer the group more overall damage/xp than bringing 4 dps builds. If blizzard removed support builds from the game all it would do is make people bring whatever combination of 4 dps builds brought the most damage. Wizards are as likely to be undesired in that scenario as they are in the current meta.

Seems incredibly pointless.

Rhaknar · Sep 18, 2015

Why aren't there support oriented sets?

Armaros · Sep 18, 2015

eek5 said:
Carni WD is fucking brutal. IDK how people solo GR this build. Have to fish so hard to even have a chance.

Carnevil is probably the squishiest build that can run anything high. You need to do alot of rift fishing and using your insane DPS to burn through things, make sure you have one tank gem tho.

Most use Esoteric

Carnis are being used in some of the highest group rifts (mostly non-season where they have perfect rolls), where support monks and etc can offset how squishy they are, and abuse their high dps (especially high dps vs RGs)

Pyros_Eien · Sep 18, 2015

Rhaknar said:
Why aren't there support oriented sets?

I guess because they're really be clogging the loot tables with sets designed to be used entirely in groups, which would suck for everyone who doesn't play in groups or doesn't want to play support.

There's a few legendaries or set bonuses that work well for supports(Inna's 2pc for example and such), and I think that's good enough. They could work towards adding more of these for every class maybe, but I don't feel that's really something they should put a lot of emphasis on due to only being targetted for a few specific players. They could however work on making more skills have a support rune to try to balance classes a bit better in terms of supporting, runes being available to everyone from the getgo and being where you can easily and quickly tweak your character depending on what you want to do at the time.

I guess they could rework existing set into having a support focus though. Like say, stupid Blackthorne which is already clogging the loot tables with garbage, they could rework it to provide support stuff instead, and that ring/amulet set that summons skeletons and stuff like that. Or they could add the support gear on the blacksmith as recipes, this way people who want to play support only have to craft their stuff.

I guess it depends on how much they want to go with it though, and ultimately supports will still be largely based on the class abilities rather than the gear. Support monk wouldn't be a thing without the skills to provide everyone with the large LPS you get on the gear.

Akai XIII · Sep 18, 2015

Dahbomb · Sep 18, 2015

Rhaknar said:
Why aren't there support oriented sets?

Inna's is pretty much a support set. So are the first 4 PC of Delsere.

The real answer is that Diablo is a game where classes are made to be highly offensive. There's no such thing as a support class... every class can play supppot and every class can play DPS role.

There are quite a few Legendaries in the game that people think are generally crap/unusable but are amazing on a support character (Vigilance on a Support Barb). Because support builds don't need high damage multipliers they can get away with making multi set combos with multiple Legendaries. Support builds are where you actually see some ingenuity in D3... the DPS specs are essentially specs that Blizzard has made for us (like the Uliana build for example).

twobear · Sep 18, 2015

why can't i find a tal rasha amulet, weeps

Shuggananas · Sep 18, 2015

Just convert other tal rasha items into it

twobear · Sep 18, 2015

Shuggananas said:
Just convert other tal rasha items into it

i've tried, i've gotten every item like twice except the amulet

Addnan · Sep 18, 2015

Keep doing it, it doesn't require much.

twobear · Sep 18, 2015

i'm doing it as much as i can but i'm melting down so many legs

(

ElyrionX · Sep 18, 2015

Rhaknar said:
Why aren't there support oriented sets?

The design philosophy right from the start is that they would not be designing for specific group roles as they expect all classes to be able to kill mobs solo.

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