XANDER CAGE
Member
I say god DAMN
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Shadow of the Eternals (Dyack) kickstarter ends prematurely
- Thread starter brianmcdoogle
- Start date
I say god DAMN
flatearthpandas
Member
Sad to see so many people cheering on the failure of this project.
GAF's bitter grudge against Dyack likely had absolutely nothing to do with the Kickstarter failing, but the smugness is a little aggravating. The demo looked good and the original game was amazing. I, for one, will be sad if I never get to play a successor to Eternal Darkness.
GAF's bitter grudge against Dyack likely had absolutely nothing to do with the Kickstarter failing, but the smugness is a little aggravating. The demo looked good and the original game was amazing. I, for one, will be sad if I never get to play a successor to Eternal Darkness.
A Black Falcon
Member
Very sad... this game really, really needs to happen. It needs to get made somehow!
My mistrust of him has everything to do with all that has been reported after the GAF stuff.
CambriaRising
Member
I am unconvinced that the studio can produce a competent game. Others are as well I suppose.
Sure, I agree it's childish for people to be mocking the failure of any game. But it happens on the internet. In fact, there is nothing unique or special about people celebrating or mocking the failure of this Kickstarter other than the fact that Dyack is banned on the forum. There is also a Fuse bomba thread. There's a ton of mocking going on in the After Earth thread(s) on OT right now. Every time EA announces a new Bioware game, we have very typical responses.
This is a large forum, there are many members, and lots of people probably take something more personally than they should - both good and bad. It can be seen in the hype building up to stuff people are excited for as well.
I don't think there's anything particularly special or unexpected about how anything here has played out.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
If they would have gone PC only it would have been even cheaper, they could have applied for a CryENGINE 3 Independent Developers Platform, and the fee would be from the revenue of the game when it goes commercial. But since they planed a WiiU version, then they needed access to the source code of the CryENGINE 3 and a different licence. It looks like you already know that though.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Imbarkus is so bitter it hurts to watch. The sad part is that he's misdirecting all his bitterness because there's no real place he can direct it towards. Apathy is what ultimately sinked the project, and that isn't a person he can get mad at. Sad.
Don't pity me. You may be surprised how this whole thing turns out.
Apathy leads to a two page thread that fades away. Not an eleven page thread (100 posts per), plus a few more, filled with very little discussion of the game, its characters, its merits at all, and instead pumped full of posts that amount to "because Dyack," or this:
..and the guy before who inexplicably hashtagged it to #ForeverAgainst.
I could direct further bitterness, but I'm not going to attack someone for their opinion. I do feel that you could not be more off-base with your statement that the response to this funder has little to do with Dyack, PR, and all that history. The first thread, and this one, is proof to the contrary, merely with a topic count for each post.
So please don't misconstrue me trying to be civilized and reasonable on NeoGAF as merely a symptom of not knowing who to attack.
What bothers me is I still feel that I have no idea what the reaction would be to this funder or this game without a contingent of people, some of whom write articles for gaming news sites, immediately launching into a counter-PR initiative.
Except of course against Epic whose code he stole.
I'm hoping that Nintendo swoops in and buys 51% of Precursor Games for a dollar. Then they can fund the game. Nintendo would be fools to fund the game without some serious control.
SK was doomed. Precursor is legally-distinct and has that new car smell.
SotE is a bargain because SK already did some of the work. And WiiU needs games. A reborn SK fully under Nintendo's thumb would be an investment that pays off for decades. Nintendo even has experience with controlling SK and making sure they don't screw up.
Precursor should gladly give up 51% of their company, because right now they're nothing, and they need Nintendo, much more than Nintendo needs them. If they give up control, then they'll be back in the business of making videogames. It's win-win.
Why would Nintendo even want to take over Precursor?
Some of you should realize that people aren't against an Eternal Darkness (spiritual) sequel, but against the people involved. And no, not because of forum shenanigans, but misappropriation of funds, stolen code, and other shady business, not to mention the inability to produce a good game. If you'd really trust these people with your hard-owned money, I've got several bridges I can sell to you.
Some of you should realize that people aren't against an Eternal Darkness (spiritual) sequel, but against the people involved. And no, not because of forum shenanigans, but misappropriation of funds, stolen code, and other shady business, not to mention the inability to produce a good game. If you'd really trust these people with your hard-owned money, I've got several bridges I can sell to you.
None of those things happened under Nintendo, they happened when SK tried to make their own decisions. I'm confident that Nintendo could keep Precursor under control even if Denis Dyack himself was running the company, which he apparently isn't.
With Precursor, Nintendo could have an Eternal Darkness-level game come out every couple of years for a very long time. Without Precursor, well... Nintendo has owned the Eternal Darkness IP and done absolutely nothing with it since the GameCube days. Nintendo has finite development resources.
Synth_floyd
Banned
I mean I loved Eternal Darkness and would love to see a sequel but that statement sounds like he's living in crazy world.
Synth_floyd said:
When I refer to "we have seen more support from our community than we had ever hoped for" I mean the 1,700 people who have joined our forums and are actively contributing to content for the game as well as their efforts to get the word out about Shadow of the Eternals. Their enthusiasm is beyond my expectation.
Noisepurge
Member
Altough I do have my doubts about dyacks past, I also believe he is a talented man in game designing and the right man for a (spiritual) sequel to ED. However I think that he sometimes overthinks too much about certain aspects, which ultimately leads to postponing and downgrading.
That said, I really hope Nintendo picks up this project because I want my ED 2, damnit!
That said, I really hope Nintendo picks up this project because I want my ED 2, damnit!
Honestly, I think this kickstarter would have failed with or without Dyack.
I just don't believe that there is a fanbase for Eternal Darkness that is even remotely as significant (or starved for content) as the ones for the big kickstarter successes. Let's take old-school isometric RPGs: BG1 sold five million and was probably pirated twice as much on top of that (yes this is also sigificant, e.g. one Torment $5000 tier backer remarked that he pirated PST back in the day).
I just don't believe that there is a fanbase for Eternal Darkness that is even remotely as significant (or starved for content) as the ones for the big kickstarter successes. Let's take old-school isometric RPGs: BG1 sold five million and was probably pirated twice as much on top of that (yes this is also sigificant, e.g. one Torment $5000 tier backer remarked that he pirated PST back in the day).
Yeah I honestly felt really bad when I saw how much effort was put into the Kickstarter because I could tell there was no way it was going to be funded. Personally the way the chapters are broken up partially deterred me.
I mean most kickstarter games let you get a full copy for $15-25 then anything over gets you lots of cool extras, as soon as you're paying $50 for base game it feels a bit weird. I mean the Star Citizen KS had a $30 half price tier I hopped onto instantly.
The people who contribute to the kickstarter are going to be less than 100k of the sales in even the most optimistic case, trying to give deals and sweet packages for lower prices will push more people into it.
I mean most kickstarter games let you get a full copy for $15-25 then anything over gets you lots of cool extras, as soon as you're paying $50 for base game it feels a bit weird. I mean the Star Citizen KS had a $30 half price tier I hopped onto instantly.
The people who contribute to the kickstarter are going to be less than 100k of the sales in even the most optimistic case, trying to give deals and sweet packages for lower prices will push more people into it.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
A company money hatted this.
If that company were Microsoft or Sony, could Nintendo step in and order a cease and desist claiming the game infringes upon their IP (which it obviously does)? I'm sure they were supportive of Precursor Games when the game was sure to come to their system (as, at the very least, a timed console exclusive). If that changes, I wonder if Nintendo would continue to be as supportive.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
You assume that the company that money hatted this isn't Nintendo.
If Nintendo didn't fund the game before when it was originally pitched to them, why would it all of a sudden decide to do so now when their funding campaign wasn't generating a lot of interest/raised funds? Don't get me wrong, I love ED and really want this game to be made and released (I did pledge $50), but it doesn't make much sense for Nintendo to all of a sudden decide to fund this. That's why I was wondering what would happen if the game was funded by someone who would not put the game on Nintendo's console. Would Nintendo go from being supportive to a roadblock?
Do we not agree that as well as the distrust and dislike of Dyack that the other contributing factor is that not many people know or give a shit about ED?
I for one don't even remember the game. I know back in the day (those days were different) I was hyped for it, and I know I enjoyed it because I recall completing it. With that said, since I can't actually remember anything about it, I could care less about a sequel.
I for one don't even remember the game. I know back in the day (those days were different) I was hyped for it, and I know I enjoyed it because I recall completing it. With that said, since I can't actually remember anything about it, I could care less about a sequel.
I would like to say something about established developers using Kickstarter as a funding platform. This method involves no risk (provided the project is funded), the game can be unpolished, uninteresting, delayed or even cancelled even with a successful Kickstarter funding. So the challenge becomes not to create the game, but to pitch it to average people.
I am not happy that the projects (even with massive potential) fail, but Kickstarter is a garbage way of funding games. Other services which obligate developers to finish their product and make it successful are a way to go.
I am not happy that the projects (even with massive potential) fail, but Kickstarter is a garbage way of funding games. Other services which obligate developers to finish their product and make it successful are a way to go.
gingerlord
Member
Definitely, I'd love it to be Nintendo but can't see them doing it these days.
I dont know whats more tiresome, Kickstarter being used for everything or GAF milking the spotlight moment of Dyack's banning for all its worth.
Yes he is a cartoon villain and a figure of mockery around here. Yes Too Human was bad. Let it fucking go already
I really hope this game gets made. Looked pretty good :/
Yes he is a cartoon villain and a figure of mockery around here. Yes Too Human was bad. Let it fucking go already
I really hope this game gets made. Looked pretty good :/
He has enough problems outside of GAF to bring his credibility down plus the fact that what we've seen might be SK work can be thought as sketchy.
And without Nintendo overseeing the project like they did on the original game, some like me might not be that confident with the quality of the final game.
eot
Banned
My problem with Dyack is that he refuses to accept any responsibility for things that don't go his way. Bad showing at E3? Blame the press for being honest, then blame MS for making you show the game. Bad buzz around your game? Attack GAF and rant about the progress of technology. Failed game? Sue Epic!
It just never ends. The only way to do better is to recognize your mistakes, or your part in what went wrong. If you instinctively rationalize away anything that didn't go your way then you're doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over.
It just never ends. The only way to do better is to recognize your mistakes, or your part in what went wrong. If you instinctively rationalize away anything that didn't go your way then you're doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Even ignoring Dyack's involvement, this whole setup is awkward and unappealing to backers. On the one hand they're trying to distance themselves from the mess of Silicon Knights, yet on the other they're continuing the work done at that company on a spiritual successor to a fan-favourite IP.
In either case, they need to earn the respect of the community before going to them for $1.5 million to fund the pilot episode of Dyack's magnum opus. And in order to to that, I feel they have to make, finish and release good games. Nothing super-ambitious - they can be iOS or eShop games or whatever - but they need to establish themselves and prove they're reliable before attempting to create a game on the scale of Shadow of the Eternals. And like I say, it's the same situation no matter if we're counting the chequered history of Silicon Knights as a knock against them, or if we're wiping the slate clean and considering them to be a brand new entity.
In either case, they need to earn the respect of the community before going to them for $1.5 million to fund the pilot episode of Dyack's magnum opus. And in order to to that, I feel they have to make, finish and release good games. Nothing super-ambitious - they can be iOS or eShop games or whatever - but they need to establish themselves and prove they're reliable before attempting to create a game on the scale of Shadow of the Eternals. And like I say, it's the same situation no matter if we're counting the chequered history of Silicon Knights as a knock against them, or if we're wiping the slate clean and considering them to be a brand new entity.
Why would any company money hat a flailing kickstarter that has received nothing but apathy?
Extra Sauce
Member
Some companies are managed by clueless/ill-informed people.
This a confirmation? Thats good news if true.
Those services exist, they are called publishers. "Obligating success" leads to mass market appeal and focus testing, and focus testing leads to the dark side.
In short, you are missing the point of crowdfunding, and assuming the people who contribute are not aware of the risks.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
If you want to hear Dyack admit his mistakes listen to his interview on the Gamers with Jobs podcast. I don't know what better way he can admit to and change past mistakes made running the business than abdicating the role. He is not running Precursor Games.
Some people are considering this. I would think fair consideration of the project would include mostly wondering at the unproven leadership of Paul Caporicci and Shawn Jackson, rather than judging the new company based on the leadership track record of an employee who is not the head of this company.
Others LOL "because Dyack" #ForeverAgainst and they are just having too much fun taking a piss all over this thing.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Cool, then you have plenty of super-safe Dudebro military shooters to look forward to!
The bottom line is people are just not interested in what they're selling. And outside of the GAF echo chamber, it's not because of Dyack's history. It's because of the game.
This is one of those mid-tier games that people don't buy anymore. Only in today's world, you get to find that out before you release it. A publisher would have to be crazy to pick this up now.
This is one of those mid-tier games that people don't buy anymore. Only in today's world, you get to find that out before you release it. A publisher would have to be crazy to pick this up now.
I was personally thinking plenty more lawsuits and delays, but I guess we'll both have to wait and see.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Oh? Based on Paul Caporicci's extensive history of lawsuits and delays?
Love how everyone ignored this. Because it doesn't fit that "haha! They're all crazy and delusional people at Precursor!" narrative.
And love how now everyone in this thread is now in love with publisher backed games, despite spending the rest of the year complaining about the same old shit from publishers, and you bet that will be the case at E3 again.