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wwm0nkey
Member
(10-21-2017, 03:54 AM)
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If it works and runs in 4k @60Fps I will be very happy. I'm still critical of the initial release, but I'm very happy (will be VERY VERY happy if there is a Win10 version too)
Stinkles
Clothed, sober, cooperative
(10-21-2017, 03:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Man God

Doesn't explain all of the single player/local bugs.

You'd be surprised how interconnected some of those things are but every known serious bug is being looked at not just mp.
blakep267
Member
(10-21-2017, 03:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by loli pantsu

Ok, let's see if my understanding of what he said is correct.

He's saying that it's only because they got the green light to enhance and improve it for the One X, that's why they're able to fix all the existing problems at the same time?

I think it's more, the upgrades from the X and general fixes to the Xbox one from 3 years ago made it possible
AlmostMilk
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:03 AM)
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I hope this works out. It definitely won't get back the player base it should have had at launch, but it should bring enough people back to keep it going. If it works out, I would love to see Halo 3 remastered with One X graphics and add Halo Reach as well as ODST firefight with matchmaking.
Charcoal
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:03 AM)
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Has there been a tl;dr written up?
Andodalf
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by loli pantsu

Ok, let's see if my understanding of what he said is correct.

He's saying that it's only because they got the green light to enhance and improve it for the One X, that's why they're able to fix all the existing problems at the same time?

He said the exact opposite of that.
Wereroku
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Stinkles

You'd be surprised how interconnected some of those things are but every known serious bug is being looked at not just mp.

Thanks for finally putting something or as an explanation Frankie. I know you can't test for everything but all of the crashes at pre release events with the multiplayer suggests some of the problems were known. Did you try to get the release delayed to fix more or were you already told that wasn't an option.
op_ivy
Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
(10-21-2017, 04:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Charcoal

Has there been a tl;dr written up?

game development is hard

;)
DominusLeges
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zvonimir Boban

It's been so long that my memory might be wrong but didn't reviewers play through the game without having any of the matchmaking problems prior to the launch? It wasn't until the game went live for everybody that it was clear the game was broken but like I said, I'm not 100% certain.

Online matchmaking was not available for review. It and Diablo 3 were two of the major reasons we now have “review in progress” articles for games with extensive online functionality from many of the larger gaming outlets.

As for the rest of your post, if you want call Stinkles a liar, don't waste so many words on beating around the bush.

He’s doing his job and he can’t disparage his employer. Common sense still applies. The problems weren’t limited to just matchmaking either there were save issues, checkpoint issues, bugged achievements and crashes during coop throughout the campaigns in some of the titles. It was simply a broken product on most every level. So what’s more believable a software company responsible for releasing numerous software products was unable to discern any of these issues prior to release of the software and were totally caught unawares or that said software was pushed out to release during peak sales season in order to swell up support for the company’s flagging HW despite its many issues? I’d say it’s pretty damn clear which is more likely especially considering much of the game was released as a damn downloadable patch on release meaning it came down to the very last second to meet their release deadline.

The only game I’ve played since MCC that even remotely approached the level of brokenness that I experienced with MCC on release was the Darksiders 2 “Remaster” and I vowed not to buy anything from THQ Nordic after playing that. But at least THQ Nordic didn’t string people along and promise they would fix things or straight up tell them that the problems they were having were all somehow fringe cases that did don’t affect the majority of the people who bought and played the game.

TLDR: A bit of common sense and a read between the lines goes a long way when parsing PR regardless of who it’s coming from.
Mrbob
how can the baaasheep
enjoy the shootbang?
(10-21-2017, 04:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by loli pantsu

Ok, let's see if my understanding of what he said is correct.

He's saying that it's only because they got the green light to enhance and improve it for the One X, that's why they're able to fix all the existing problems at the same time?

Well it makes sense. With Xbox X MS can now make more money on the title so it's financially reasonable for MS to spend the money to fix the game.
DocSeuss
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:07 AM)
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I've dissed 343 before--heck, I wrote about my issues with their Halo games for Kotaku--but I still wanna buy Stinkles a burger and just chat about Halo some time.
almostjuliuscaesar
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:08 AM)
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it's always nice to get an actual response
Toa TAK
Banned
(10-21-2017, 04:09 AM)

Originally Posted by Charcoal

Has there been a tl;dr written up?

It’s in the actual response itself.

Wouldn’t kill you to read it all, though.
legacyzero
Banned
(10-21-2017, 04:09 AM)
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Thank you for the fixes. Now give it a shot in the arm. Make it free on gold
nillapuddin
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:11 AM)
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From what I understand over the years, the UI and its implementation was very challenging, but Im afraid that if it remains identical that many players wont take it seriously.

I kinda feel like to swing this the right way it needs a rebrand or refresh, not major changes ala some crazy reddit concept. But some color or nesting changes might help

am I just thinking too obtuse, or does that make sense?
TotalMackerel
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:13 AM)
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Thanks for this, Stinkles. This goes a long way in making me hopeful for the future of MCC.
RPGam3r
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:14 AM)
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Before I sold my Xbox One I loved MCC.

The main reason for me coming back to the Xbox ecosystem with the Xbox One X is to enjoy Halo all over again, and so this news makes the coming back all that much sweeter.
The Jazz Cabbage Master
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:16 AM)
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I wish y’all the best of luck in the relaunch. I’ve always felt that a proper reintroduction of the game with a massive discount would be great.
golem
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:16 AM)
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Thats nice and all but where is the Windows 10 port already?
FyreWulff
I Spit Hot Fyre
(10-21-2017, 04:16 AM)

Originally Posted by nillapuddin

From what I understand over the years, the UI and its implementation was very challenging, but Im afraid that if it remains identical that many players wont take it seriously.

I kinda feel like to swing this the right way it needs a rebrand or refresh, not major changes ala some crazy reddit concept. But some color or nesting changes might help

am I just thinking too obtuse, or does that make sense?

A UI spiff up would probably be a good idea, mostly because it'd make it feel fresher but also visually makes it obvious it's relaunched/reworked.

A similar thing happened with Rock Band 4. It launched barebones and was eventually made a more complete game, and when the re-launch happened with Rivals they redid the entire game's UI from this weird wood motif to a techno-neon look

old RB4:

nuRB4:

UraMallas
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheXbox

If you think the game's okay as long as >50% of all players have a functional experience, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you think the players affected should just be quiet?

The point is this: excepting matchmaking, the game launched with too many issues. Too many players had a bad, broken experience. How many is too many? What's an acceptable "minority?" I'm not arguing that the majority of MCC players had a shitty time - only too many. If you look at any of the reactions post-launch or the early patch notes, I believe that's self-evident, and launching the game in that state was irresponsible. I'm actually kind of shocked that this is even controversial.

I agree with you. So does the OP. You're talking past him for no real reason. That's what I'm saying.

*OP acknowledges all the problems and is working towards fixing them*

"But the problems!"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
xxracerxx
Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
(10-21-2017, 04:17 AM)
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Glad to read this, I would still love a deeper dive look at some point but this is sufficient.
SKY EYES
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:19 AM)
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That was a redeeming explanation and sounds sincere.


Still absolutely sucked buying 2 copies so I could connect with a younger brother that I rarely see. He grew up idolizing playing halo with his older brother and actually was really put off by the whole situation.

Thanks for the explanation frank, I can definitely understand the humility you must have endured from the whole thing.
AlexFlame116
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by xxracerxx

Glad to read this, I would still love a deeper dive look at some point but this is sufficient.

By the looks of it we're going to have a second explanation once the beta goes live so I'm thinking we'll get a lot more answers there.
etta
my hard graphic balls
(10-21-2017, 04:20 AM)
etta's Avatar

Originally Posted by Zeus The Dino

Imagine all the people that have died waiting for MCC to be fixed 😪

Explanation is better late than never

Who the fuck died waiting for a game patch
cakely
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:22 AM)
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343 feels really bad that they released a broken game and they were super-sad to take $60 per copy back in holiday 2014.

Also the timing of these new fixes seems really transparent. It makes sense: Microsoft wants another game to sell units of Xbox One X.
UraMallas
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by etta

Who the fuck died waiting for a game patch

I'm absolutely sure that's a joke.

...I'm absolutely thinking I'm sure.
HTupolev
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:22 AM)
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I hope they're looking at port quality stuff, and not just explicitly broken things.

Originally Posted by Demoncarnotaur

I really hope MCC is released as a Games with Gold title once the update is live to give that player population the much needed boost.

Yep. One of MCC's big draws is that it contains console MP for games that otherwise wouldn't have it, but that's only useful if there's a healthy infrastructure for playing them. With a matchmaking-based system, that basically requires that the launch is healthy enough to carry a large community. MCC MP let far too many people go before it was playableish. It would be nice to see an attempted relaunch of sorts.

A custom games browser would have gone a very long way to helping, though. CBG is great for small and split communities, it can keep things feeling alive even when very few players are looking to play a given thing. Even with a strong launch, MCC would have been a perfect use case; I think waiting until Halo 5 to try CBG out was a large mistake on 343i's part.
Korosenai
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:23 AM)
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MCC and Halo 4 made me quit Halo, so this is 4 years too late for me.
Tawpgun
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:26 AM)
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Thanks Frankie and 343.

But its hard for me to get excited for a fixed MCC if the playlist/gametype issues persist.

When I still played the game, I would be thankful for getting into a stable, 4 v 4 game.... only to have it be SMG or AR starts. God forbid on Last Resort or some stupid big map.

I'd rather be in a 3 v 4 BR's match than a 4 v 4 AR starts match.

Hell yes I'm digging up this ancient Halo debate but FUCK AR/SMG starts.
Poodlestrike
Banned
(10-21-2017, 04:29 AM)

Originally Posted by UraMallas

I'm absolutely sure that's a joke.

...I'm absolutely thinking I'm sure.

It's Zeus it's absolutely 100% not a joke.
Bsigg12
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:30 AM)
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Thanks for the start of the dialogue Frankie. It will be fascinating to hear everything 343 is able to find and fix and ultimately improve over the next year with MCC as you get it ready up to speed for the X.

Can't wait to see Halo 2 Anniversary at 4K/60. That's going to be a treat.
AlexFlame116
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:30 AM)
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This is just me but I really didn't like it when activating a terminal or the equivalent of it in the campaign took you to the Waypoint site where it barely worked half of the time and if it did work the quality was horrid or it would just kick me out after some seconds.

Granted my internet had a part in this, but was it so hard to just put the videos into the disc itself or into the MCC menu?
AYF 001
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by etta

Who the fuck died waiting for a game patch

I mean, statistically speaking, there's possibly a handful of people who pass away unexpectedly right before a launch/update they were anticipating.

On topic, I'm glad to know that 343 really does care enough to do the right thing. My interest in the X1X will be renewed when the patch hits.
DR2K
Doesn't buy fighting games to actually play them
(10-21-2017, 04:40 AM)
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I mean they care because of the new hardware launch. Once that’s over they’ll ghost again. As their publisher has no problems releasing a broken game and leaving it as is.
RowdyReverb
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(10-21-2017, 04:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Charcoal

Has there been a tl;dr written up?

Testing environment did not accurately reflect real world. Bandaids were applied that got it working as best they could, and further fixes risked breaking the progress they’d made, so they stopped patching the game even though it still wasn’t working for a minority of users. Xbox development tools have evolved over the past 2 years and made it possible to better assess and correct the issues with the matchmaking, and the release of the Xbox One X provided them an opportunity to revisit the game with these newer development tools. More info to come as the Spring patch is closer to completion.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
(10-21-2017, 04:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by funkystudent

Man. Imagine how different thing would have been if we just got a really nice halo 2 AE in 2014. That game has such a special place in my heart.


Anyway. Happy they are finally doing it. It is going to be a hell of a big patch huh.

I wonder this not only for MCC, but the Halo franchise and Xbox One console as a whole. How different would things be if this had worked out.

Props to everyone on the team for coming totally clean even if it took a while.

Better late than never - Ghostbusters 2
nillapuddin
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by FyreWulff

A UI spiff up would probably be a good idea, mostly because it'd make it feel fresher but also visually makes it obvious it's relaunched/reworked.

A similar thing happened with Rock Band 4. It launched barebones and was eventually made a more complete game, and when the re-launch happened with Rivals they redid the entire game's UI from this weird wood motif to a techno-neon look

old RB4:



nuRB4:

*nods*
always count on fyre to bring the facts

I think its a great point, and clearly theres a precedent (did it work for RB btw?)
I know they have a huge task in front of them, but I hope the UI is included, I obviously will give it another go because I love the franchise, but I just hope other people give them a shot, and realistically if it doesnt look any different, some will write it off from the get go



(I was inspired by the thread and news, spent the past hour playing MCC, no issues in Team Slayer fwiw, feels good man)


If all Halo 2018 is, is MCC revival and H5 (map pack?) refresh, I'd be smitten by that
as long as avalanche gets into matchmaking with pistol starts
mcrommert
Banned
(10-21-2017, 04:46 AM)

Originally Posted by op_ivy

game development is hard

;)

Also Xbox platform and tools were on fire and 343 made 5he assumption they weren't
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
(10-21-2017, 04:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by DominusLeges

There is absolutely no way they did not know the game was broken on so many levels prior to release with the plethora of problems it had. Furthermore insisting that a still glitchy frustrating mess of a multiplayer system “works for the vast majority of people” is frankly offensive.

This and only this.

The game was broken for their pre release tournaments they tried to hold. They knew it was broken, they still released it.

By "vast majority" they mean the 10 people who haven't been banned from waypoint yet because they blindly praise anything and everything 343 does.
Evil John Locke
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:49 AM)
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It's kind of disturbing to see people praising 343 for holding their money hostage for a couple of years while they tried to figure out how to deliver the product they sold you way back then.
daman824
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:50 AM)
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If they fix mcc I'll go rebuy a copy and renew my gold. Halo got me in to gaming. Growing up, I didn't spend my time playing mario, I was playing halo. My best gaming memories are with the franchise.
TheXbox
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(10-21-2017, 04:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by UraMallas

I agree with you. So does the OP. You're talking past him for no real reason. That's what I'm saying.

*OP acknowledges all the problems and is working towards fixing them*

"But the problems!"

¯_(ツ)_/¯

You're confusing the hell out of me. I haven't had a single exchange with the OP in this thread. If you're referring to Frankie, then I've reiterated about five or six times what I think is deficient in his explanation. And I'm not talking past Frankie either (whatever that means), I'm responding directly to what he said and, more significantly, what he didn't say. Faulty assumptions in their testing environment over matchmaking do not, do not, do not account for the rest of what was broken in the launch version of the game. Even if matchmaking had worked, launch MCC was still unacceptable and, for way too many people, outright unplayable.

I can't be any clearer about this. I understand and am grateful that they are working to address the issues with the game in its current state - which I've said about three or four times already - but that's not what I'm talking about. I want to know what went wrong with the rest of the game. I want to know why Microsoft, under the assumption that matchmaking would perform as it was meant to, thought that the MCC was in an acceptable state to launch. I do not believe it was, and I suspect that their play testers were aware, to some extent, that campaign in all four games had serious, game-breaking problems.
ps3ud0
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(10-21-2017, 04:51 AM)
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Id take Stinkles post with sincerity if it wasn't just well timed to be part of the XOX marketing cycle. Does it really take years to get around to delivering what a lot of people paid good money for? This should be considered lower than the bare minimum those people deserve...

I still can't believe how many milestones and cross-checks must have been ignored to deliver what 343i (and ergo MS) did. Surely there must have been several points where you could have reigned back scope and just delivered fewer components (need vs want) with the promise of adding to them to eventually create the complete package (say as free DLC considering how dense the content was going to be).

Its good that's its gonna get fixed (and by that I presume completely without any major caveats or omissions and as originally advertised) but damn it shouldn't have taken this long to even say this is gonna happen. If 343i were meant to be the Halo guardians, then Halo 5 should have been delayed until MCC was delivered as promised/sold. I think what actually happened was the worse thing they could have done to Halo...

ps3ud0 8)
hollomat
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:53 AM)

Originally Posted by Evil John Locke

It's kind of disturbing to see people praising 343 for holding their money hostage for a couple of years while they tried to figure out how to deliver the product they sold you way back then.

Yeah I’m not sure why people are singing 343s praises for releasing a completely broken game, failing to fix it or pull it from sale, failing to offer any refunds to everyone who bought the broken game, and now 4 years later saying we are working on a patch that should fix the game. They said the same thing 4 years ago and it never came.

MCC came because Halo 5 wasn’t coming out early enough. Seems like this patch is only coming out because the Xbox one X is launching and Halo 6 is at least a year off. I’m going to laugh if the exact same thing happens again and the patch doesn’t fix any of the issues just like all the other MCC patches.

If the game can finally work due to a system of changes to Xbox’s networking (I’ll believe it when I see it), 343 should’ve pushed Microsoft for these networking changes years ago.
HappehLemons
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by Akai__


1st: Game working for the "vast majority". What does this entail, because SP worked for everyone (with a couple bugs)... MP? Well, I don't buy that for a second with all the outrage behind it.



This is something I'm wondering as well honestly.... I don't think that the game is working for the "vast majority" of people. I just think a bunch of dedicated people are dealing with the issues because it's their only option. For example here's a post from 5 months ago outlining a ton of issues a frequent player was having:

Well it's better than the first few months lol but still issues for sure. -can't join a custom in progress, matchmaking just matches whoever to whoever-doesn't matter skill doesn't matter if solo or partied, h2c (ina any game mode aka hardcore, dubs, h2c playlist) will count as a quit out for everyone of the game goes black screen after someone quits. So you can be winning 40-26 the other team quits out game goes black and bam there's like 2 or 3 losses for everyone playing, shot reg is better but seems to be inconsistent, the game still freezes and crashes, joining friends can be a hassle, sometimes everyone in a party is searching in the same lobby but one persons screen won't be searching and it will not connect to other players if that is the case, map variety still poor in social games, the game is still very quirky/finnicky (I see new little things in thebgame I have never seen before when for some reason it doesn't like what is happening) and requires build quitting and lobby resetting more often than it should to get some games going, kids still dodge and quit more than I ever remember and kids still boot. Those are some of my main gripes and main issues on a daily basis when I play which is on average a few times a week depending on work. Campaign is usually solid although I have had issues with the game dropping other players who are with you and achievements don't pop up or are delayed. CE is a poor rendition of itself and the pistol does not seem to be nearly how I remember it but I also play that the least With all that said- it's a lot better and much more playable but many have left which leaves a lot of the same kids matching each other. Like I said those are the ones I face most often and sometimes they don't always happen but usually they do. I still have fun playing for the most part tho and it's hard to give up games that have been my go to for so long. Not sure if u are just curious or plan to get back to the grind

To me - it sounds like MCC still isn't in a playable state.
joecanada
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zarro Boogs

Sorry, but no. Even WB had the decency to pull Batman Arkham Knight off of digital shelves in response to the sorry state of its original release. And it was fixed in relatively short order, at least compared to MCC. The game's been languishing in a semi-broken state for an entire three years and now their fixing it just happens to coincide with the release of new console hardware? It's insulting.

343 has yet to release a product that hasn't been extraordinarily disappointing to me in one way or the other. MCC was particularly gutting to me and my circle of friends. Never, ever again, 343.

Yeah sorry but the timing is just too convenient.... We can't make a new halo in time for the new hardware and to release upgraded version for x we have to fix mcc. And not fixing vanilla mcc will look super bad so.....

Maybe I'm too cynical for my own good but I got a hundred dollars says that mcc would never have been fixed but for x upgraded version MCC Scorpio version will be glorious tho I bet
cakely
Member
(10-21-2017, 04:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by ps3ud0

Id take Stinkles post with sincerity if it wasn't just well timed to be part of the XOX marketing cycle. Does it really take years to get around to delivering what a lot of people paid good money for? This should be considered lower than the bare minimum those people deserve...

I still can't believe how many milestones and cross-checks must have been ignored to deliver what 343i (and ergo MS) did. Surely there must have been several points where you could have reigned back scope and just delivered fewer components with the promise of adding to them to eventually create the complete package (say as free DLC considering how dense the content was going to be).

Its good that's its gonna get fixed (and by that I presume completely without any major caveats or omissions and as originally advertised) but damn it shouldn't have taken this long to even say this is gonna happen. If 343i were meant to be the Halo guardians, then Halo 5 should have been delayed until MCC was delivered as promised/sold. I think what actually happened was the worse thing they could have done to Halo...

ps3ud0 8)

Well put. It's great having both an explanation and an apology but it's not great to see them used as part of a cynical marketing push for the Xbox One X.

The correct time for this deep introspection would have been when 343 decided to ship the game, and charge full price for it when they were well aware it wasn't in a working state.
UraMallas
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(10-21-2017, 05:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by TheXbox

You're confusing the hell out of me. I haven't had a single exchange with the OP in this thread. If you're referring to Frankie, then I've reiterated about five or six times what I think is deficient in his explanation. And I'm not talking past Frankie either (whatever that means), I'm responding directly to what he said and, more significantly, what he didn't say. Faulty assumptions in their testing environment over matchmaking do not, do not, do not account for the rest of what was broken in the launch version of the game. Even if matchmaking had worked, launch MCC was still unacceptable and, for way too many people, outright unplayable.

I can't be any clearer about this. I understand and am grateful that they are working to address the issues with the game in its current state - which I've said about three or four times already - but that's not what I'm talking about. I want to know what went wrong with the rest of the game. I want to know why Microsoft, under the assumption that matchmaking would perform as it was meant to, thought that the MCC was in an acceptable state to launch. I do not believe it was, and I suspect that their play testers were aware, to some extent, that campaign in all four games had serious, game-breaking problems.

Okay, fair enough. For reference talking past someone is an idiom in english that I was using incorrectly here. I understood it to mean two people not realizing they are arguing the same thing but from different perspectives.
OrbitalBeard
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(10-21-2017, 05:03 AM)
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I wonder if this means Halo 6 is 2019.

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