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Could a "Metroid Souls" work?
- Thread starter heringer
- Start date
DragonGirl
Member
There is a reason I explicitly talked about the world design. Because I'm just talking about the world design, not any of the other elements. You just do not see many 3D Maze World games, and Souls is probably the most notable modern one, thus the comparison. But sure, I'd expect more from Metroid's world due to its importance to the game play. I'm not saying putting Samus in Dark Souls = 3D Metroid. I'm just saying the world design is already similar and other than seeing DS as an example of what Modern 3rd person Metroid could be, Metroid itself doesn't need to draw much from Dark Souls because it already has the most relevant part.
And no to the RPG elements. They don't need to be there. I find Metroid's upgrade system more enjoyable and even though I like Zelda without it, I do like the world opening up as you increase your ability set via upgrades and Metroid always pulled that off better for me than Zelda did.
BRSxIgnition
Member
I just want to explore another planet on my own behind Samus' Visor again.
If it takes From Software to make that happen, so be it.
If it takes From Software to make that happen, so be it.
I'll start by repeating that the only souls game i have played is Bloodborne.
While it is true that you don't get new abilities to open up new areas, you can see the similarity, the power ups in Metorid are hidden within the world, so you can argue is like how Bloodborne has hidden items around the world that open up new areas.
I do guess RPG elements would make it more souls tho.
Or you could make a metriod game with them, or design rpg mechanics based on suit upgrades.
Metriod didn't used to be a first person shooter, but then it also became that.
I'm going to be honest about it, i've looked through the full walkthrough of dark souls 3 and this is what i've seen :
- it seems to be more a hack & slash game
(than anything that comes close to what zelda is.)
- It even hasn't real map/open world?
- Puzzle solving almost nothing. Not even close to what zelda is
- Environments are the same colours over and over again.
- Can you even ride a horse?
- Does it have special abilities?
- ...
We are talking now about metroid, but that connection is like comparing race game with platform game. It's maybe a hard game and it has some darker atmosphere (maybe it's because of that it's so popular). And i really can believe that it's one of the best hack & slash games out there.
Please correct me if i'm wrong, but if that's the case, please stop referring to this game.
- it seems to be more a hack & slash game
(than anything that comes close to what zelda is.)
- It even hasn't real map/open world?
- Puzzle solving almost nothing. Not even close to what zelda is
- Environments are the same colours over and over again.
- Can you even ride a horse?
- Does it have special abilities?
- ...
We are talking now about metroid, but that connection is like comparing race game with platform game. It's maybe a hard game and it has some darker atmosphere (maybe it's because of that it's so popular). And i really can believe that it's one of the best hack & slash games out there.
Please correct me if i'm wrong, but if that's the case, please stop referring to this game.
That's silly. It's like saying "if you want first person in a Metroid game you don't want a Metroid game" right before Metroid Prime being released.
Fully agree here. I think a Souls-like Metroid game could work, but I think that it wouldn't be a great Metroid game. It would be something else and that's okay.
Thread is about Metroid, not Zelda.
pretty done
Member
lmao I want to frame this post
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I'd like Metroid to remain Metroid. I'd prefer an original game from From.
Neither would they want a Souls game.
Death Penalty
Member
RPG elements, a loot system and Souls combat (which I'll reiterate is just terrible for ranged combat) are things that Metroid does not need. Metroid already has a sense of progression through item/life upgrades that would be needlessly complicated by a stat system, and you already find new weapons to play with in the form of new beams, grappling hooks, etc. A lot of these things emphasize mobility where Souls is more grounded, others emphasize ranged combat where Souls is a lot about melee. I just don't see what they could gain from each other.
Why are you talking about Zelda?
Yes true,
It's now the x time that the game is been used as "what if x been like souls".
Zelda was been compared as the most. Yet Metroid as already told you in my prev post is even further away for what souls is. So i really don't understand why we need a metroid game like that. Super metroid is hard enough and the art style is godlike. We don't need to change that. What they need to do is get the metroid more alive like that did with botw. Somthing that i don't feel at all with souls game.
One of the things to reach this is to have more moving object within the game. This will help you to get a better connecting to the game. If you watch super metroid, you already see that most background aren't static. Art is a big deal for this game. (also music)
That analogy doesn't work. The core game mechanics of the Metroid franchise were clearly established since the first game. There was never a third person Metroid game before a first person one so neither was ever established because the franchise was born with a 2D perspective like every game ever made at that time. People only exptected it to be third person because every other Nintendo game that transitioned into 3D was.
Besides the point, you don't want a Metroid that makes Metroid. There is a reason the term "Metroidvania" doesn't include Metroid games. People want a Metroid game because Metroid games as is the case with Metroid Prime do not exist in the current market.
You may as well develop a new western-focused IP or whatever out of this.
Metroid doesn't need any of that to be excellent, but you can still imagine how it would turn out if a talented developer introduced some of these aspects.
I remember a lot of people saying things like "Zelda doesn't need open world". They are right, it doesn't need open world, but I sure am glad Breath of the Wild was made.
The difference is we can see how the RPG mechanics are pretty superfluous by looking at all the Metroidvanias out there already. Loot is covered by upgrades much more cleanly and Stats/EXP are too granular in a game like Metroid (or most games for that matter). I don't see the value in doing 1% more damage after killing a bunch of enemies.
I wouldn't even say Metroid Prime sacrificing Samus' mobility for a more immersive experience is worth it but whatever, it's a good game. If we're theory crafting for an ideal game, I'd just rather have a game more like the 2D Metroid games.
But then it's also not Metroid. You are treating Metroid only in terms of it's gameplay, but it's more than that. If you only care about that, there are Metroid like games out there too.
And it's not about "what I want", since I would actually prefer Metroid Prime 4 by Retro, but that doesn't stop me from contemplating other ideas.
BRSxIgnition
Member
This thread poses the interesting question of what people want in a Metroid game to begin with. I'd say there's probably a sizable gap between those who want a 2D Metroid and those who want something more Prime-like.
I'd consider myself more a part of the latter, personally. There's something about exploring a new planet and finding out about it through a visor alone that's really appealing.
That could may make for an interesting thread, actually, considering E3 is right around the corner.
I'd consider myself more a part of the latter, personally. There's something about exploring a new planet and finding out about it through a visor alone that's really appealing.
That could may make for an interesting thread, actually, considering E3 is right around the corner.
"Please kill the Metroid franchise once and for all."
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
No, but Metroid and Souls have some decent overlap in gameplay philosophy:
- minimalistic / environmental storytelling
- interconnected world with looping levels/shortcuts and backtracking
- dark, eerie, and tense atmosphere
- decently challenging without being cheap
- scarcity of save points (always a "oh thank god!" relief when you find a recharge station / bonfire)
There's no reason why you couldn't have a Metroid games that draws inspiration from the Souls franchise (in terms of RPG elements or progression, perhaps), or why From Software couldn't make a good Metroid game (with their own take on the unique traversal abilities etc.).
In fact, we DO have a very, very good Souls/Metroidvania hybrid right now, and it was only made by two people! Salt and Sanctuary, anyone?
It combines Souls-like stamina-based combat with its own weapon and skill upgrade systems, and Metroidvania-style structure with a heavy focus on platforming in an interconneced world with gated areas that are unlocked by discovering new traversal abilities. And it's a really fucking awesome game.
If two people can make such a kick-ass game, a professional studio with the same kind of design philosophy (such as From) could make the best Metroid ever.
It even has a whip!
Agreed. Check out the game I mentioned above btw, you might enjoy it.
Huh? People don't care for Lords of the Fallen because despite the Souls inspiration it's rather mediocre -- not because of the Souls-like aspects, but in spite of them. Haven't played The Surge but I wasn't interested because I found the character, art style and environments to be drab and uninspired, not because it has Souls inspiration.
Nioh is awesome and an excellent evolution on the combat formula.
What the hell are you even talking about. PvP has never been the "main focus" on Souls games (if anything it's often an afterthought, just look at Bloodborne and how invasions are suddenly exceedingly rare), and "save stations" (bonfires) already do recover health and there's plenty of "OP" weapons/spells/etc... what a nonsensical, ignorant post.
Where are these games with Metroid Prime mechanics? Even in 2D the Metroid-likes are the outlier.
Nintendo also contemplated other ideas like Metroid Prime: Federation Force. Doesn't mean it's a good idea. There are already more than enough games out there that cover the mechanics you want to implement into Metroid. This isn't the case the other way around.
I would argue that Metroid 1 is exactly like that in the "hard" way it is.
I don't mean that Metroid gameplay loop is "die and repeat" but that it's a substantially harder game than most of Nintendo's catalog.
They did the bold in Other M, it killed what little gameplay that game had.
It's literally one of the core reasons why I despise that game so much.
the underline might as well be true for how they treated that power up too.
I meant Metroid like in the 2D space. You have stuff like Axiom Verge, Ori, Guacamelee, Shadow Complex, Outland and many others, not to mention an excelent fan made Metroid 2 remake.
Like Metroid Prime? Yeah, not a lot, if any, I'll give you that. Which is why Metroid Prime 4 is my preferred choice, but again, it doesn't stop me from contemplating other ideas that could also work well.
Guess my post needed a /s
I was making fun of the poster painting all Souls fans as die hards who want every game to be Souls like despite Souls fans clearly not liking Souls like games. Nioh I just added in for the hell of it
Yes, games during the NES era were harder than what we have now yes.
But "difficulty" and "Metroid" are not associated at all, it feels like you are reaching to me, even the save stations just feel like tradition in Metroid, in the rare case you die the only thing you will lose is your time, save stations work as time wasters more than anything. There is a difference between "shit if i die i have to do this again" and "if i die i may lose my souls" and thats not taking into account that the majority lf enemies in Metroid are mere annoyances whose purpose is to refill your life and missiles.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Ah, I see. Well the Nioh inclusion did throw me off, because I do think many, maybe most, Souls fans love it. lolGuess my post needed a /s
I was making fun of the poster painting all Souls fans as die hards who want every game to be Souls like despite Souls fans clearly not liking Souls like games. Nioh I just added in for the hell of it
Version 3.0
Member
Plenty of similarities. Yes, the non-linear design. But also the somewhat "connecting corridor" sort of world design of Souls is similar to Metroid Prime. If a Souls game had a map, it'd look a lot like a Metroid Prime map. And the feeling of isolation, the exploration of a disappeared civilization, the slow reveal of story through interaction with the world as you progress.
All that said, they're more similar in those kind of broad stroke designs than in actual mechanics of the game.
BRSxIgnition
Member
This is why - if we get another Metroid game - so many people want it to be a Prime game, rather than 2D platformer/adventure hybrid.
It was so cool to slowly explore the stories of the worlds as well as the worlds themselves while feeling so alone. It felt so natural while still feeling so alien.
Metroid to me involves an unlockable permanent toolkit that lets you traverse new areas, solve new puzzles and destroy new enemies until you have "mastered" the world.
Souls to me involves selecting a limited number of tools that you like from a limited unlockable toolkit and being able to progress no matter what you choose.
The two series have a lot in common (progression especially) but they are kind of irreconcilable imo.
Souls to me involves selecting a limited number of tools that you like from a limited unlockable toolkit and being able to progress no matter what you choose.
The two series have a lot in common (progression especially) but they are kind of irreconcilable imo.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
How are they irreconcilable? Salt & Sanctuary features both and is a great game.
BRSxIgnition
Member
So 2D rather than Prime. From Software would likely make the latter, however.
Lupin3
Targeting terrorists with a D-Pad
I'm ok with either as long as it's a real Metroid.
BRSxIgnition
Member
That's what everyone wants - but it seems to mean different things to different people.
For me, it'd be something akin to Metroid Prime 2 Echoes - for others, it may be Super Metroid.
For some people... it may even mean something like Metroid Other M or Federation Force.
Orochinagis
Member
You mean Metroid Prime?
I dont think samus have some sort of Animus, Dream world or Clones to make the souls mechanic works.
Metroid Prime 3 had the phazon mechanic where Samus is losing her humanity at the point of being a phazon organism.
Maybe some sort of virus killing samus slowly as the story progress
I dont think samus have some sort of Animus, Dream world or Clones to make the souls mechanic works.
Metroid Prime 3 had the phazon mechanic where Samus is losing her humanity at the point of being a phazon organism.
Maybe some sort of virus killing samus slowly as the story progress
I'm strictly speaking of the 1st Metroid.
that one is rather brutal compared to stuffs like the SMBs,zeldas and star tropics.
It's even harder because the gameworld is a maze to unpack too.
It's clearly not a game made for inexperienced gamers (Kid Icarus too but no one cared for KI in quite a while so eh).
I'm not saying it's how Metroid works, I'm saying it COULD work that way.
Lupin3
Targeting terrorists with a D-Pad
I can only speak for myself, and that would mean Metroid, Super Metroid and Metroid Prime.
Can't say I hated Other M, but it didn't entertain enough for me to continue through.
"Your games", "our games". This is really childish, c'mon. Nobody is taking your "beloved" games from yout. It's just a discussion. Don't worry, Nintendo won't look at this thread and think "yep, that's what we're going to do now, thanks Neogaf".
Not that I want every game to be Souls (it's not even among my favorite series), but I can see people thinking "Mario + Final Fantasy? LOL no" back in the 90's and yet Super Mario RPG is a beloved game in the genre. I'm glad some devs can think outside the box!
Childish is comparing every game to Souls games or asking every game to be a Souls game or populating every other action RPG thread with Souls evangelists.
It's not a discussion, anyway, just some daydreaming from a child wanting his beloved game to take over a franchise that doesn't need to be anything like the Souls games and only Souls fanatics can't see why.