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Final Fantasy X -Will- and FFX-2.5 plot discussion thread [Up2: Uh, um, errr, see OP]

Roxas

Member
FFX-3?

tumblr_l5se1iTR0T1qz4w1go1_500.jpg
 

WolvenOne

Member
Odd, just, very very odd.

Seriously, who is it at Square that keeps pushing for direct sequels, because, they need to be fired, immediately.

I know that's harsh, but, gadzooks! I don't even mind revisiting individual settings. I mean, for example, Ivalice is always nice to see, but even then the various stories should be separated by time or distance, and avoid re-using the same characters again.

What strikes me, is that it should be clear by now that direct sequels aren't good business. X2 had significantly lower sales then X, XIII-2 had significantly lower sales then XIII, and unless something bizarre happens in America and Europe it looks like XIII-3 is going to have significantly lower sales even XIII-2.

It's obvious that direct Final Fantasy sequels, simply do not draw the same audience as the traditional stand alone titles. True, direct sequels can re-use some assets, but not as many as you might think. The budgets are lower, but probably not low enough to offset the dramatically decreased audience size.

So, whomever at Square that is pushing these things, is obviously a very slow learner!!
 

Shahed

Member
The way I look at it is this. Sure it may have come out of nowhere, but it can't exactly be much worse than FFX-2.
 

ctothej

Member
I'm not opposed to the idea of X-3, but the setup sounds terrible. It's like Square has no idea what made the original so compelling.
 
Odd, just, very very odd.

Seriously, who is it at Square that keeps pushing for direct sequels, because, they need to be fired, immediately.

I know that's harsh, but, gadzooks! I don't even mind revisiting individual settings. I mean, for example, Ivalice is always nice to see, but even then the various stories should be separated by time or distance, and avoid re-using the same characters again.

What strikes me, is that it should be clear by now that direct sequels aren't good business. X2 had significantly lower sales then X, XIII-2 had significantly lower sales then XIII, and unless something bizarre happens in America and Europe it looks like XIII-3 is going to have significantly lower sales even XIII-2.

It's obvious that direct Final Fantasy sequels, simply do not draw the same audience as the traditional stand alone titles. True, direct sequels can re-use some assets, but not as many as you might think. The budgets are lower, but probably not low enough to offset the dramatically decreased audience size.

So, whomever at Square that is pushing these things, is obviously a very slow learner!!

X-2 probably sold poorly due to the fact that there were three female protagonists. XIII Series was just always shitty. But it is cheaper to make a sequel to a game that already has an established lore and set of characters. So that's probably why...
 
X-2 sold great for a direct sequel. I can't remember the exact figures, but it spoke of a fan base that was still engaged in the X universe. It was a beloved game and people wanted to revisit that world. Direct sequels fall apart when the fan base split and most of them couldn't care less about going back to the well anytime soon. Also known as XIII-2 and Lightning Returns.
 
to be fair, some bits of FFX-2 were wry commentary on nostalgia and this wishing-to-bring-back-everything-dead plot might be about how the actual game FFX-3 is a bad idea

or the entire point of the game might be a polemic about how people should stop wishing for a remake of FF7, that'd be rad
 

Nerokis

Member
Alright, putting aside that this is horrible timing for SE to go back and make another sequel, and for X of all things, and that this absolutely should not happen... I have to say, I'm not horribly offended by dramatis' summary. It's been awhile since I played X, and I never played X-2, but it actually vaguely seems...not too awful, for what it is?

Some of it seems legitimately interesting. There are a handful of little details I actually enjoy, like Yuna
praying to a no longer existing being I'm assuming/vaguely feel was prominent in the previous games
, and the shoopuf thing. The fayth stuff also seems to make sense in the context of the universe, no? It's certainly odd for
Sin to make a comeback
, but as one unfortunate implication of something bigger happening in the world, I can swallow it - and I have a feeling that whole thing isn't quite what it seems. I mean,
who wished for Sin to return, and why?

The lovers quarrel stuff is a little jarring, but it seems to be purposely missing context. It seems tied into other things. I mean, this is grounds I wish SE wasn't even going into in the first place - it would take decent writing to pull off going into what happens after Cinderella, for example - but hopefully the romance angle is handled with some subtlety.

I suppose it's easier for me to swallow all this because I don't expect understandably snarky/incomplete/fragmented/etc. translations of an isolated audio drama of all things to resonate as brilliant or impactful. I can still have some hope that an X-3 would transcend the contents of the OP. But yeah, I can also understand all the pessimism and displeasure. I really hope this isn't actually happening.
 
to be fair, some bits of FFX-2 were wry commentary on nostalgia and this wishing-to-bring-back-everything-dead plot might be about how the actual game FFX-3 is a bad idea

or the entire point of the game might be a polemic about how people should stop wishing for a remake of FF7, that'd be rad

Or it could be great. It could be great, It coud be.. g-..- Why, why do we even bother living any more.
 
I think by now people would know better than to wish for a FF7 remake. Even so, I'd kind of want to see it, just for how much of a train wreck it would be. It's clear that the current regime has absolutely no idea what made their SNES/PS1 and, to a lesser extent, PS2 games so special and so revered. It would be interesting just to see how that would inform a potential remake of FF7. The calibre of writing that a modern big budget game requires far outstrips the modest abilities of their current staff.

Now, excuse me I'm off to look at my amazing collection of PS1 games that comprise of the Square glory years and cry. I never expected it would come to something quite like this.
 
X-2 probably sold poorly due to the fact that there were three female protagonists. XIII Series was just always shitty. But it is cheaper to make a sequel to a game that already has an established lore and set of characters. So that's probably why...

Fiction - i.e. lore, characters, etc - is the cheapest thing to produce for a game.

X-2 and XIII-2/LR are all about the re-use of existing assets. They're built on the same exact engine as the original game and use a lot of the same locations, monsters, and character models. From a financial standpoint, X-3 would only be "cheap" to make if, say, it's a Vita game that again re-uses a lot of FFX/X-2 assets.

X-2 sold great for a direct sequel.

X-2 definitely didn't sell "great" for a direct sequel. It sold about half as many units as X did. You typically create a franchise by having sequels sell more. Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3 all had escalating sales, for example. Though, in context, you could say that X-2 sold well because it likely only cost a fraction of what FFX did to make, so Squeenix probably turned a nice profit on it.
 
If they want to make a sequel to a game, do it for V. That story is silly enough where it shouldn't matter what they do to it and SE is all about silly, nonsensical stories so why not go that route?
 
Fiction - i.e. lore, characters, etc - is the cheapest thing to produce for a game.

X-2 and XIII-2/LR are all about the re-use of existing assets. They're built on the same exact engine as the original game and use a lot of the same locations, monsters, and character models. From a financial standpoint, X-3 would only be "cheap" to make if, say, it's a Vita game that again re-uses a lot of FFX/X-2 assets.



X-2 definitely didn't sell "great" for a direct sequel. It sold about half as many units as X did. You typically create a franchise by having sequels sell more. Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3 all had escalating sales, for example. Though, in context, you could say that X-2 sold well because it likely only cost a fraction of what FFX did to make, so Squeenix probably turned a nice profit on it.

Well... I'm banking on it being Vita or mobile. So I stand with my original statement.
 

dramatis

Member
X-2 definitely didn't sell "great" for a direct sequel. It sold about half as many units as X did. You typically create a franchise by having sequels sell more. Halo -> Halo 2 -> Halo 3 all had escalating sales, for example. Though, in context, you could say that X-2 sold well because it likely only cost a fraction of what FFX did to make, so Squeenix probably turned a nice profit on it.
Not sure about the world, but in Japan 10-2 sold about 85% of what 10 did (not counting the international editions), not half of what 10 did. You're probably thinking of 13 to 13-2 numbers.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Since FFX is not one of my favorite FFs, this doesn't really bother me. Considering that FFX-2 was also a wacky game, I don't see how people are shocked that this audio isn't packed with crazy.
 
Well... I'm banking on it being Vita or mobile. So I stand with my original statement.

Your original statement doesn't make much sense, though :p It's about the assets, not the characters/lore themselves.

Having familiar/well-liked characters and lore can definitely be a beneficial thing. But not as much with Final Fantasy, as the direct sequels have all shown diminishing returns. A significant portion of the fanbase only shows interest in each new unique, fully-produced mainline game, while only a smaller percentage care to revisit X-2/XIII-2 style sequels. Which is only natural for sequels in their style.

Not sure about the world, but in Japan 10-2 sold about 85% of what 10 did (not counting the international editions), not half of what 10 did. You're probably thinking of 13 to 13-2 numbers.

Hmm, apologies for that, I had glanced at some numbers quickly, but the X-2 ones weren't accurate it seems. Worldwide, it looks like X-2 sold about 70% of what X did; holding up better in Japan than it did in the rest of the world.

It of course doesn't change the fact that it sold worse than the original, but yeah, as opposed to the dropoff shown by each successive FFXIII game, it does suggest that a third FFX game would be more well-received than Lightning Returns.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Re-reading the summaries, I'm thinking that
When Yuna gets angry at Tidus because of a female friend she has, and then says she has a new love, someone "he doesn't know," I'm guessing she made it up to piss him off. It's a regular trope, and an annoying one, as seen in such "quality" works as OreImo.
 
Your original statement doesn't make much sense, though :p It's about the assets, not the characters/lore themselves.

Having familiar/well-liked characters and lore can definitely be a beneficial thing. But not as much with Final Fantasy, as the direct sequels have all shown diminishing returns. A significant portion of the fanbase only shows interest in each new unique, fully-produced mainline game, while only a smaller percentage care to revisit X-2/XIII-2 style sequels. Which is only natural for sequels in their style.

Stop the logic it burns!!!
 

Peff

Member
Re-reading the summaries, I'm thinking that
When Yuna gets angry at Tidus because of a female friend she has, and then says she has a new love, someone "he doesn't know," I'm guessing she made it up to piss him off. It's a regular trope, and an annoying one, as seen in such "quality" works as OreImo.

97E5E2H.jpg
 

doemaaan

Member
Ok.. so, what then? If we get a 10-3 sequel, what system will it be for? PS4? I think I'd rather have a remake of FF7. I didn't like 10 THAT much..
 

Shahed

Member
SIN
coming back makes it far more stupid and ridicules.

Well Tidus came back in FFX-2

The battle system was very good in X-2. As were other gameplay aspects. However bar a few awesome pieces of music, everything else in the game was trash almost on the level of Star Ocean (which also had amazing gameplay but awful elsewhere).

I have no qualms about saying it's by far the worst Final Fantasy title I have ever played, and that is including the XIII saga. Well at least from a story and characterisation pespective which everyone seems to have misgivings about for a potential FFX-3. It would be difficult to get worse
 
Oh man SE, what ARE you doing? It wasn't enough to tarnish the FF series with Lightning's crap, now you're going to try to retroactively destroy the other entries in the series that should have just been left alone.
 
Oh man SE, what ARE you doing? It wasn't enough to tarnish the FF series with Lightning's crap, now you're going to try to retroactively destroy the other entries in the series that should have just been left alone.

Square Enix: Don't you see...if all life were to end in Spira, all suffering would end. Don't you see? Do you not agree?
 
Did you play X-2?

Seems like a massive step up in story quality to me.

X-2 had a better storyline than X. I absolutely loathed the story for X and X-2's story is so damn ridiculous and over the top that I can't help but love it.

It is my guilty pleasure.

As for X-3, I honestly... uh... don't know what to think of this.
 
That's how I took it. It's just couples fighting... Nothing new.

It's one of the most immature retorts someone can use in a lovers spat. It's like something you'd see on Totally Spies or Sabrina, the Teenage Witch. Something more fitting in comedic teenage sitcoms, cartoons or Archie Comics.
 
When did all this happen?
I'm pretty surprised, also pretty excited by this!

It'd be nice if they go against the grain and offer a turn-based modern FF to go alongside FFXV.
 

B.K.

Member
Wait, so is there going to be a FFX-3 or is this just speculation.

There's nothing announced yet, but the new audio drama from X/X-2 HD pretty much confirms X-3. It's nothing but a 30 minute set up for X-3, the way The Eternal Calm set up X-2.
 

Filth

Member
as someone who holds ffx as their favorite game. x-2 was dissapointing. i was thrown off guard by the singing and dancing and wanted to know when do i become badass. it also through me off that it wasnt turn based i believe.. right?
 
It of course doesn't change the fact that it sold worse than the original, but yeah, as opposed to the dropoff shown by each successive FFXIII game, it does suggest that a third FFX game would be more well-received than Lightning Returns.

I'd argue that the case of X-2 is entirely different to Halo. The goal was to re-use assets from X and hopefully retain a significant portion of the fan base. Make a game at a fraction of the cost and sell it to a diminishing fan base. Your comparison of Halo would be more apt for the mainline series, where the point most definitely is to grow and expand the franchise, but it's ill fitted for the likes of X-2, XIII-2 and Lightning Returns, where a law of diminishing returns is in effect when it comes to audience retention.
 
The fayth are acting weird. What fayth normally show are memories or just images of dead people. However, at the Moonflow the traveling crew witness a fayth image respond to a child's question like a sentient being. The child begs her mother to come back, and the mother answers in affirmative.

This later relates to the reappearance of Sin at Bevelle, implying that someone wished for Sin to come back.

This sounds really good, and presents some pretty inventive ideas for sequel potential.
Also, I love the new Yuna design.
 

Ludist210

Member
as someone who holds ffx as their favorite game. x-2 was dissapointing. i was thrown off guard by the singing and dancing and wanted to know when do i become badass. it also through me off that it wasnt turn based i believe.. right?
It was turn-based, but not in the same vein as FFX was. Think more like the ATB in FFVI or FFVII...very similar. I actually preferred X-2's combat to X's, but they were both good for different reasons.
 
I'd argue that the case of X-2 is entirely different to Halo. The goal was to re-use assets from X and hopefully retain a significant portion of the fan base. Make a game at a fraction of the cost and sell it to a diminishing fan base. Your comparison of Halo would be more apt for the mainline series, where the point most definitely is to grow and expand the franchise, but it's ill fitted for the likes of X-2, XIII-2 and Lightning Returns, where a law of diminishing returns is in effect when it comes to audience retention.

Yeah, definitely. I wholeheartedly agree there. Just the blanket statement of "X-2 sold great for a sequel" is a bit misleading. From the context of what X-2 was meant to do, I do think that it was very successful.
 
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