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dolabla
Member
(11-13-2017, 07:13 PM)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ina/858436001/

While visiting Beijing last week as part of a five-nation Asia tour, President Donald Trump personally asked his Chinese counterpart to help resolve a situation involving LiAngelo Ball and two other UCLA teammates who had been arrested for shoplifting, according to a report in The Washington Post on Monday.

Ball, the brother of Los Angeles Lakers rookie Lonzo Ball, and teammates Jalen Hill and Cody Riley were accused of stealing sunglasses from a Louis Vuitton store near their hotel in Hangzhou, China, and subsequently allowed to return to their hotel, according to ESPN.

The Post reported that Trump personally spoke about the situation with Chinese president Xi Jinping, who promised to "ensure the players would be treated fairly and expeditiously."

In interviews last week, law professors who specialize in Chinese law told USA TODAY Sports that they did not expect the players to face severe punishment in China as a result of the incident, citing Trump's visit to the country as one helpful factor.

UCLA was in China to play Georgia Tech in this year's Pac-12 China game, which the Bruins won, 63-60.

WaterAstro
Member
(11-13-2017, 07:50 PM)
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Yeah, I'm sure he means, "Make sure they are treated fairly and pardon them without a trial." lol
dolabla
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:08 PM)
I'm honestly mixed about the situation. If they really did it, then they're idiots and probably shouldn't get a pass. But then again, I in no way think they deserve 3-10 years in a Chinese prison over it. But it is their laws.

I think something like a fine and a ban from the country would suffice. I guess whatever happens, happens. They have no one to blame but themselves. It's just a bad situation that I would not want to be in.
Rocket Number 22
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by WaterAstro

Yeah, I'm sure he means, "Make sure they are treated fairly and pardon them without a trial." lol

But thats pretty much what he did do...did you read the op?
Ubername
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:32 PM)
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Well good, I'm glad they weren't disenfranchised of their human rights because they shoplifted a few pairs of sunglasses.
aaronsan
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by dolabla

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ina/858436001/

Well, that's kind of what I'd expect our president to ask, right? Or am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong, full credit to Trump, from someone who almost never finds any reason to praise him. He should be fighting on behalf of our citizens abroad.
Bleepey
Member
(11-13-2017, 08:57 PM)
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If he's asking for leniency for his citizens then fairplay to him
dolabla
Member
(11-13-2017, 09:01 PM)

Originally Posted by aaronsan

Well, that's kind of what I'd expect our president to ask, right? Or am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong, full credit to Trump, from someone who almost never finds any reason to praise him. He should be fighting on behalf of our citizens abroad.

No doubt. I remember there was speculation on many different sites if it would get brought up or not during his visit, so this is just like a confirmation that it did.
pureplayin2
Member
(11-13-2017, 09:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by aaronsan

Well, that's kind of what I'd expect our president to ask, right? Or am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong, full credit to Trump, from someone who almost never finds any reason to praise him. He should be fighting on behalf of our citizens abroad.

Not if they break the law he shouldn't be doing shit. Too many Americans think they can do what they want and our government will come and save them. Our government shouldn't be doing shit in helping foolish people for breaking laws in other countries. These boys should be punished to the fullest extent of the law in China that is allowed for these type of crimes. And every American should shut the fuck up about it as they don't have a say in what happens to people who break the law. We Americans need to start learning and understanding that there are consequences to our actions which is something most are incapable of understanding.
-I'll be back later hopefully to continue discussion. Have a final to study for and that is more important than a meaningless convo on a forum.
aaronsan
Member
(11-13-2017, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by pureplayin2

Not if they break the law he shouldn't be doing shit. Too many Americans think they can do what they want and our government will come and save them. Our government shouldn't be doing shit in helping foolish people for breaking laws in other countries. These boys should be punished to the fullest extent of the law in China that is allowed for these type of crimes. And every American should shut the fuck up about it as they don't have a say in what happens to people who break the law. We Americans need to start learning and understanding that there are consequences to our actions which is something most are incapable of understanding.
-I'll be back later hopefully to continue discussion. Have a final to study for and that is more important than a meaningless convo on a forum.

I respect your opinion but I don't trust the Chinese justice system, and therein lies my point of disagreement. If I thought they'd been fairly accused and would get a fair trial, sure.

If they were in Riyaad and falsely accused of theft, about to get their hands chopped off, you wouldn't want our President to do anything?
PabloBolivar
Member
(11-13-2017, 09:08 PM)
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Trump should have suggested life in a Chinese labor camp for LaVar Ball in exchange for his son and the other players.
dolabla
Member
(11-14-2017, 01:22 AM)

Originally Posted by PabloBolivar

Trump should have suggested life in a Chinese labor camp for LaVar Ball in exchange for his son and the other players.

Lmao!

I know many don't like him, but I actually like the guy. I think he's very entertaining.
Bigby_Wolf
Banned
(11-14-2017, 01:26 AM)

Originally Posted by WaterAstro

Yeah, I'm sure he means, "Make sure they are treated fairly and pardon them without a trial." lol

Why should they be pardoned without a trial if there's significant evidence they committed a crime?
Ubername
Member
(11-14-2017, 01:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by pureplayin2

Not if they break the law he shouldn't be doing shit. Too many Americans think they can do what they want and our government will come and save them. Our government shouldn't be doing shit in helping foolish people for breaking laws in other countries. These boys should be punished to the fullest extent of the law in China that is allowed for these type of crimes. And every American should shut the fuck up about it as they don't have a say in what happens to people who break the law. We Americans need to start learning and understanding that there are consequences to our actions which is something most are incapable of understanding.
-I'll be back later hopefully to continue discussion. Have a final to study for and that is more important than a meaningless convo on a forum.

Lol what even is this? There's like 2 people in the world who care about the inventory of that particular louis vuitton, and however many millions who want to see the game. The advertising revenue they'll make from a 25 second tv spot is already orders of magnitude greater than what some shitty little store makes over its entire lifetime. Grand scheme of things, doesn't matter in the slightest. Heck, I'm sure the ratings went up for the game.
MIMIC
Why won't homeless people take my emails????????
(11-14-2017, 02:05 AM)
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I joked with my dad that Trump said those crazy things about China because he struck a deal with the Chinese President regarding the players.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
(11-14-2017, 02:31 AM)

Originally Posted by Ubername

Lol what even is this? There's like 2 people in the world who care about the inventory of that particular louis vuitton, and however many millions who want to see the game. The advertising revenue they'll make from a 25 second tv spot is already orders of magnitude greater than what some shitty little store makes over its entire lifetime. Grand scheme of things, doesn't matter in the slightest. Heck, I'm sure the ratings went up for the game.

You’re basically saying important people should be able to stomp all over little people because of money.
nephilimdj
Member
(11-14-2017, 02:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by aaronsan

I respect your opinion but I don't trust the Chinese justice system, and therein lies my point of disagreement. If I thought they'd been fairly accused and would get a fair trial, sure.

If they were in Riyaad and falsely accused of theft, about to get their hands chopped off, you wouldn't want our President to do anything?

Its a luxury shop, they would have cameras, they are fucking dumb asses being let off by the president
Beerman462
Member
(11-14-2017, 02:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by pureplayin2

Not if they break the law he shouldn't be doing shit. Too many Americans think they can do what they want and our government will come and save them. Our government shouldn't be doing shit in helping foolish people for breaking laws in other countries. These boys should be punished to the fullest extent of the law in China that is allowed for these type of crimes. And every American should shut the fuck up about it as they don't have a say in what happens to people who break the law. We Americans need to start learning and understanding that there are consequences to our actions which is something most are incapable of understanding.
-I'll be back later hopefully to continue discussion. Have a final to study for and that is more important than a meaningless convo on a forum.

Oh yeah? What about Otto Warmbier, American Student Released From North Korea, Dies
Should we shut the fuck up about that?

Well maybe Chinese prisons aren't that bad.

The inner cell was the same size but held 30 prisoners, all sleeping on the concrete floor. There were no blankets or pillows and the room was so crowded that most prisoners slept on their sides with arms draped over each other like embracing couples.

In Chinese jails, prisoners begin working on their first day of detention regardless of the circumstances. The right of having a phone call upon arrest is unheard of, and most have no contact with the outside world throughout the entire time they are incarcerated.

Each day at 6:30 a.m. the cell leader woke everyone by clapping his hands to begin another routine day. Thirty men lined up to brush their teeth while simultaneously using a single hole in the ground as our only toilet.

Oh....

I guess these "boys" should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, as you said, for taking some sunglasses or maybe you should do some more studying before speaking in absolutes.


On the topic of Trump. Maybe he can be like Nixon. Great communicator with China and then get impeached/resign.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
(11-14-2017, 03:07 AM)
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Are people here really rooting for these guys to be punished in full extent of Chinese criminal laws? I mean I wouldn't want that on a Chinese citizen after getting caught stealing designer sunglasses... Let alone a Westerner/tourists.

What they did was wrong, and dumb... But c'mon, this is Chinese government we're talking about!

Seriously though Stealing from a high scale retail shoppe in China eh? How fuckin stupid you have to be?

The Coach should've made them watch this video first

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Doqg1eCQieo
frogger
Member
(11-14-2017, 03:13 AM)
I think the penalty has to do with amount the sun glasses worth. Usual theft are not punished that severely.
AvenueWinning
Junior Member
(11-14-2017, 03:26 AM)
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My comment? That’s what a president does.
BlitzerRadic
Member
(11-14-2017, 05:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by aaronsan

I respect your opinion but I don't trust the Chinese justice system, and therein lies my point of disagreement. If I thought they'd been fairly accused and would get a fair trial, sure.

If they were in Riyaad and falsely accused of theft, about to get their hands chopped off, you wouldn't want our President to do anything?

Don't know how it is for other branches of the service, but when I was in the marines, we were told if we ever got in trouble with locals when on westpac deployment command wasnt gonna do shit for us.
HeisenbergLannister
Member
(11-14-2017, 05:34 AM)
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He must think they’re white.
Rocket Number 22
Member
(11-14-2017, 09:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by HeisenbergLannister

He must think they’re white.

:eyeroll:
Randy Monk
Member
(11-14-2017, 09:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dr.Guru of Peru

You’re basically saying important people should be able to stomp all over little people because of money.

Some people are just natural corporate shills
Jodast
Member
(11-14-2017, 11:15 AM)
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Probably the only time you could praise Trump for wanting to take his Ball and go home.
Bigby_Wolf
Banned
(11-14-2017, 06:18 PM)
And these kids are back home.

Trump 2020?
DogDude
Member
(11-14-2017, 06:28 PM)
Trump and Lavar Ball involved in 1 story. Now I've seen everything. We've reached meme levels never know possible.
_illmatic_
Member
(11-14-2017, 06:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Randy Monk

Some people are just natural corporate shills

It's sad really....Kids should be punished to the fullest extent of the Chinese law based on doing something stupid that didn't injury anyone? FoH
aaronsan
Member
(11-14-2017, 06:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by BlitzerRadic

Don't know how it is for other branches of the service, but when I was in the marines, we were told if we ever got in trouble with locals when on westpac deployment command wasnt gonna do shit for us.

For me as well. Never tested it though, thankfully.
BANGS
Member
(11-14-2017, 07:59 PM)
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Waiting to see this good deed get bashed just because it's Trump... whoops too late...
SDCowboy
Member
(11-14-2017, 08:16 PM)
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Are we supposed to have an issue with this? I'm no Trump fan, but good on him (if accurate).
SDCowboy
Member
(11-14-2017, 08:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by BANGS

Waiting to see this good deed get bashed just because it's Trump... whoops too late...

Yep, I can't stand Trump, but I was hoping we had moved on from that stuff post-exodus.
EPaul
Member
(11-14-2017, 08:41 PM)
One of the few good things he's done so far
Link1110
Member
(11-15-2017, 05:33 AM)
Add another thing to the list of things school athletes can get away with. Total disgrace
Lucumo
Member
(11-15-2017, 05:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by _illmatic_

It's sad really....Kids should be punished to the fullest extent of the Chinese law based on doing something stupid that didn't injury anyone? FoH

People should be punished according to the law they broke, yes. So I agree with them. Some president whining about it is just pathetic.
Yellowflashdude
Member
(11-15-2017, 08:09 AM)
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Don't do the crime and you won't have to deal with the severe chinese laws.You think America would do the same vice versa? America already treats it's ethnic minorities like shit when it's come to jail time, let alone foreigners.
GAR-OU
Junior Member
(11-15-2017, 08:39 AM)
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This was the correct thing to do, it's a President's job to look out for his citizens when they're in other countries. Even if the citizens commit a crime don't allow the foreign government to even lay a finger on your American citizens. Any damages can be paid for easily.
aaronsan
Member
(11-15-2017, 01:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lucumo

People should be punished according to the law they broke, yes. So I agree with them. Some president whining about it is just pathetic.

Again, you trust the Chinese legal system? That's pathetic IMO.
Lucumo
Member
(11-15-2017, 02:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by aaronsan

Again, you trust the Chinese legal system? That's pathetic IMO.

What has "trust" to do with anything? The Chinese legal system has its traditional, German and Soviet influences and it continues to change, obviously. If you don't like a country's legal system, don't go there?
aaronsan
Member
(11-15-2017, 02:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lucumo

What has "trust" to do with anything? The Chinese legal system has its traditional, German and Soviet influences and it continues to change, obviously. If you don't like a country's legal system, don't go there?

Trust has everything to do with your assertion of "the law they broke". I mean hell, where's your "allegedly"?

Don't go there is such an impractical suggestion I'm dismissing it for now. FFS. China has arguably the largest economy in the world now. People are going to HAVE to go there.
_illmatic_
Member
(11-15-2017, 04:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lucumo

People should be punished according to the law they broke, yes. So I agree with them. Some president whining about it is just pathetic.

So I take it you don't believe a law can be unjust? Too many people blindly follow and agree with punishments that are all too severe based on the law broken/crime committed. That's why we have overpopulated prisons now and that stupid 3 strike rule. People are literally serving life sentences for non-violent crimes.

Now here we are talking about kids shoplifting who may be facing (the fullest extent) of 10 years in a Chinese prison. We already have Otto Warmbier die at 22 years old after being released from a NK prison for a damn poster. Guess you okay with that too? As long as the written law says so everybody should follow?
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
(11-15-2017, 04:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by aaronsan

Well, that's kind of what I'd expect our president to ask, right? Or am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong, full credit to Trump, from someone who almost never finds any reason to praise him. He should be fighting on behalf of our citizens abroad.

If citizens break the law abroad they deserve what they get
Dynomutt
Member
(11-15-2017, 04:30 PM)
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Why is this political?

Never thought I'd agree but Yachty was right. Trump didn't really do anything. Money makes the world turn.

These were entitled kids that thought they could run game in another country. While in a Louis Vutton store thought they could snatch up some gear.

Would not be surprised if they have done the same in the states previously. Only difference is they got caught up in another country. They had the right contacts and got leniency.

If it were me and you we would be smashing rocks in a quarry somewhere.
Bigby_Wolf
Banned
(11-15-2017, 04:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Dynomutt

Why is this political?

Never thought I'd agree but Yachty was right. Trump didn't really do anything. Money makes the world turn.

These were entitled kids that thought they could run game in another country. While in a Louis Vutton store thought they could snatch up some gear.

Would not be surprised if they have done the same in the states previously. Only difference is they got caught up in another country. They had the right contacts and got leniency.

If it were me and you we would be smashing rocks in a quarry somewhere.

Especially the Ball kid.

If he stole something, he could have afforded to pay for anything in that store but instead chose to steal it for fun then yeah, forget him. Let him take the stiff penalty that they enforce.

But I don't know what really happened there.
bevishead
Junior Member
(11-15-2017, 04:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dynomutt

Why is this political?

Never thought I'd agree but Yachty was right. Trump didn't really do anything. Money makes the world turn.

These were entitled kids that thought they could run game in another country. While in a Louis Vutton store thought they could snatch up some gear.

Would not be surprised if they have done the same in the states previously. Only difference is they got caught up in another country. They had the right contacts and got leniency.

If it were me and you we would be smashing rocks in a quarry somewhere.

Yup, this is how I feel. Many people do not get the opportunity to travel internationally due to cost. These college guys not only got to go gratis, they didn't even have the decency to respect the law while in a foreign country. I sometimes hate how spoiled us U.S. citizens are. Yes they don't reflect everyone in the U.S., but internationally these students made the U.S. and black people in general look bad seeing as how this news no doubt went global. Black people already have a pretty bad reputation in Asian countries. I do plan to go to China one day and now I have to worry about being watched more because these thieves have set the precedent that black U.S. citizens are more likely to steal.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
(11-15-2017, 04:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bigby_Wolf

Especially the Ball kid.

If he stole something, he could have afforded to pay for anything in that store but instead chose to steal it for fun then yeah, forget him. Let him take the stiff penalty that they enforce.

But I don't know what really happened there.

True.. If they stole why should they be let off?
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
(11-16-2017, 02:49 AM)
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Trump was going to grant one wish to the African-American community and freakin LiAngelo Ball wastes it. Trump will keep pointing to this pardon whenever he is criticized on race going forward.
JettDash
Junior Member
(11-16-2017, 04:47 AM)
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The main purpose of the United States government is to protect its citizens. If the President can save three Americans from facing gross injustice at the hands of a foreign government merely by asking its leader to intervene, I would argue he has the moral obligation to do so.

And yes spending up to ten years in a Chinese prison for shoplifting is a grossly unjust punishment. I mean, you'd probably get a slap on the wrist in the US if you didn't have a record and we don't exactly have the most just system in the world.

Are some of you really so authoritarian that you believe 3-10 years in prison for shoplifting is a just punishment simply because that's what the Chinese government decided it is?

Anyway, Trump did the right thing. He may well have saved these kids from having their lives completely ruined over shoplifting. He probably only did it to make himself look good but so what.
Lucumo
Member
(11-16-2017, 05:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by aaronsan

Trust has everything to do with your assertion of "the law they broke". I mean hell, where's your "allegedly"?

Why would I use the word "allegedly" if I make a general statement? And what has that even to do with China's legal system?

Originally Posted by _illmatic_

So I take it you don't believe a law can be unjust? Too many people blindly follow and agree with punishments that are all too severe based on the law broken/crime committed. That's why we have overpopulated prisons now and that stupid 3 strike rule. People are literally serving life sentences for non-violent crimes.

Now here we are talking about kids shoplifting who may be facing (the fullest extent) of 10 years in a Chinese prison. We already have Otto Warmbier die at 22 years old after being released from a NK prison for a damn poster. Guess you okay with that too? As long as the written law says so everybody should follow?

It doesn't matter what I think as I'm not a citizen of that country. Therefore, I don't whine about or meddle with it. If some country punishes shoplifting by cutting off the offender's hands, then that's their thing.

I don't care in the slightest about him.

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