I mean they're basically the same thing, come on...
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Waypoint: I Hope The Last of Us Part II is Super Gay (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
I mean they're basically the same thing, come on...
Sadly not the only poster in this thread...except for maybe that last bit. What the...
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Agreed and there's only be a handful of developers out there who could potentially change the industry's perceptions around this topic and I'd wager Naughty Dog is one of them.
It would just be unfortunate for a potentially great game and great story to be overshadowed by a "controversy" that shouldn't exist in the 21st century.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Reddit, where you can get away playing up a victim complex after you literally put regular people and gay people in two separate categories.
Jesus, you could have at least tried to elaborate on how the article even suggested "fuck straight people" to prove you weren't being homophobic as opposed to crying at being called a homophobe.
how dare you, sir
being called out on bullshit online is the worst thing to happen to humanity since the plague
god have mercy on the posts
Seriously. I'm a straight dude and I cried at least five times. One of the best films on masculinity ever.
/off-topic
DriftingSpirit
Member
You better say it!
tintin1029
Member
Absolutely, no matter what it'll be done well because Naughty Dog's Naughty Dog.
My point is: how am I supposed to respect and understand Ellie's relationship if I don't care for the people behind it.
It's like the Fallout 4 scenario. If we start the game with the relationship (or worse, what you mentioned, with the gf being dead from the start) it can run the risk of being 2 dimensional. Which I never want to associate Ellie with the word 2 dimensional.
I'd be more interested in seeing the beginning of it all, especially if it's gonna be a huge focus in the story. Naughty Dog can do what they want though.
Darryl M R
Member
A good amount of posters feigning concerns about a gay protagonist being made into a stereotype to mask the fact that they are uncomfortable.
As a gay guy i agree with some of it but not all of it. I guess i'm part of those guys who don't think they belong to a community, at least culturally. Community wise i have mostly gay friends so there is that, but i certainly don't have anything in common with any sort of community in term of clothing, musical taste, or anything. I would find that a problem if i watched tv shows in relation with my sexuality as you say. At least not everyone lives his sexuality like that.
Now about the matter, hm.. Well in my position, yeah i also like homosexual characters to be showed as "nothing special", meaning yes ok they are gay, that doesn't have to change everything about them.
I also understand the idea that maybe straight people who say that just want them the most invisible they can. Maybe, i don't know, i generally hear gay people saying that more than straight people. So i'm surprised about that statement.
There should be nothing wrong with both representation i guess. Stereotyped, culturally charged gay character and subtle one, cause both exists.
If controversy stopped people from exercising their right to be their authentic selves, we'd be even worse off than we are.
Inviusx
Member
You got me on the gay and regular part, thats not what I meant but Im not going to sit here an argue. Enjoy your thread people who jumped all over me for sharing my opinion, I hope your hate doesn't follow you into the real world each day. Though is it possible for you to even seperate them at this point?
CornBurrito
Member
That isn't what happened though.
Man coming here was a mistake, I get wayed to triggered here.
Naughty Dog I hope someone there is reading this. As a gay man whose face literally lit up at Korra and Asami HOLDING HANDS, I appreciate greatly whenever there is LGBTQ representation. I loved that you introduced characters in TLOU whom were gay and yes they were subdued but I hope you don't get the wrong impression that to be "good" gay is to be subdued.
However considering Ellie is one of my favorite characters I have absolute faith in your writing and wherever you take Ellie. Even if the high chance of whatever lover she may have ends up dying or something horrible happens to her, assuming she's in a relationship at all.
Just do know that as a member of the community and I'm sure I'm not alone, I notice every LGBTQ person in the media I consume, both good and bad and feel so incredibly welcomed when the example is good.
PS I nearly choked at Ellies kissing Riley. I love you ND and I hope you can TLOU 2 just as amazing as the first!
PPS Don't make me cry too hard. I know the setting of this game but with just Niel on board please don't make me cry too hard. I love that baby girl ;_;
Naughty Dog I hope someone there is reading this. As a gay man whose face literally lit up at Korra and Asami HOLDING HANDS, I appreciate greatly whenever there is LGBTQ representation. I loved that you introduced characters in TLOU whom were gay and yes they were subdued but I hope you don't get the wrong impression that to be "good" gay is to be subdued.
However considering Ellie is one of my favorite characters I have absolute faith in your writing and wherever you take Ellie. Even if the high chance of whatever lover she may have ends up dying or something horrible happens to her, assuming she's in a relationship at all.
Just do know that as a member of the community and I'm sure I'm not alone, I notice every LGBTQ person in the media I consume, both good and bad and feel so incredibly welcomed when the example is good.
PS I nearly choked at Ellies kissing Riley. I love you ND and I hope you can TLOU 2 just as amazing as the first!
PPS Don't make me cry too hard. I know the setting of this game but with just Niel on board please don't make me cry too hard. I love that baby girl ;_;
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Fair enough.
Interestingly though, I see straight stereotypes in games get called out a LOT too. I mean, in almost any thread with a straight white male protagonist you see said stereotype called out and criticised repeatedly. It's not like everyone is oblivious to it.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
hugs hugs hugs hugs
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Game characters sexualities make no difference to me. I rarely watch cutscenes because game stories are garbage usually.
Once the games fun I'm in
Once the games fun I'm in
gay hugs and kisses back to you!
gay hugs and kisses for everyone! Would you like me to supersize them?
That is totally what happened.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
But it does happen. All the time. Every day. My cousin hid his homosexuality from his immediate family for most of his life (we could tell from a very young age but are interstate relatives).
He was too petrified to tell them for fear of being disowned. My point is, this IS happening now. I know it shouldn't but it is, which is why I said it would be a shame in the case of this game.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
Top tier tone-policing there.
Inviusx
Member
If thats the case you better get out of here while you still can.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
That's pretty cool
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
You should too, since you are just here to complain about being persecuted.
Xamtheking
Member
If it actually did make no difference to him then he/she wouldn't have posted.
But it does so they did.
Either way I'm out. Gay hugs and kisses ya'll, supersized for your delight! XOXOXO
Ghost is Bad
Banned
pretty sure what really set most people off was that dumb as fuck native american comment
SolicitorPirate
Member
I come from a country where gay sex is a federal offence, so yeah?
Alligatorjandro
Banned
It would be nice to play as characters with different points of view other than the norm.
Yeah I definitely seem a problem with the authors words, but I also don't think she's correct. Because isn't that true for most female representation now, regardless of orientation. The strong, intelligent, flawless and brave characteristics are present in almost any female character. Those characteristics in themselves have become the new norm. Vulnerability and fear are rarely ever traits explored (for either genders really).
No clue how this became the take away message. It's probably to much of an us vs them mentality on your part. The writer was expressing her desire to have a character to represent the gay community in video games, not subtly or in the closet as posters on gaf think a good gay character should be, but not afraid to flaunt who she is as a gay woman. I don't see how this is a war on straight people.
uhhh gays don't eat pizza it makes you fat everyone knows that fool
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
I haven't read the whole thread yet
There must be context in it I'm missing cause I don't get any of this
it's thai pizza with gluten-free bread
Nah, people are trying to play the "why can't/I don't care that/can't we just" bullshit and people aren't morons, so they can see through their dumb ass.
mortal
Gold Member
Agreed.
Ellie is more than just a lesbian. That's a facet of her character, but not ultimately who she is. Politicizing it would only take away from the depth of the character.
The fact that a character in a AAA title such as her can be this nuanced and happens to be a lesbian is a small, but great a accomplishment. That isn't to say there isn't room in exploring her sexuality even further, now that she's become a young adult. Since that is a large part in being human, considering the themes of TLOU.
Representation is important, yes, but it can serve to accomplish more when it's done creatively and thoughtfully. Which raises the potential in better crafting character types that are considered unconventional.
They are just piling on Inviusx because of his not-so-well worded post(s). I don't think you missed anything actually constructive.
Edit: Apparently others are also jumping on pile on train without directly quoting him. Shame that thread is getting derailed.
Crimson_Echidna
Banned
I get how representation is important but you have to do it in a way that makes me personally feel comfortable.
I haven't even read that one.
All I know is I came here, commented on how great the gay aspect in Left Behind was handled in my opinion, stating that I hope it's treated like a "normal" in Part 2 and not treated as a huge thing.
Then immediately some people jumped on me, twisted my comments, basically labelling me anti-LGBT with snarky comments. Really disappointed by these reactions.
I'm sure there are people like that, but you don't have to go the generalization route. If you have specific concerns about those posters, lay them out. You keep saying it as if your basically dismissing everyone and anyone trying to make a point(whether they are coming from a legitimate place or not) as insecure.
That is no way to have an honest debate.
OfTheOverflow
Member
I do really hope Neil makes sure that's a big part of her identity, plus he straight up confirmed that she is a lesbian no questions about it in the PlayStation Experience panel on TLOU Part II's reveal so I doubt he'll shy away from it.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I'm sincerely just dumbfounded at this post. Like I know it's been dogpiled on a lot, but still. It's just simply all sorts of amazing. It has everything. It's a work of art.
I can't wait until a mod comes by and censors you
Chuck Norris
Banned
If it's done right absolutely
Ellie's sexuality wasn't good because it's subtle or because she has the fashion consciousness of 80s lesbians as the article says
It was good because it was authentic . Bill's sexuality get authentic too, maybe even more so
I trust Druckmann to do it right if a love story is part of the story. But because it's been done already in Left Behind do they need to retread that ground?
Ellie's sexuality wasn't good because it's subtle or because she has the fashion consciousness of 80s lesbians as the article says
It was good because it was authentic . Bill's sexuality get authentic too, maybe even more so
I trust Druckmann to do it right if a love story is part of the story. But because it's been done already in Left Behind do they need to retread that ground?
tintin1029
Member
You need to stop. This post was too heartwarming.
That's a touching story and really nobody can say after reading that this isn't important, or that this doesn't matter. Unless you're a piece of shit, of course.
Inviusx
Member
Well I came into the thread just to say that to me personally it doesnt matter if a character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun.
I got called a homophobe as you would expect.
I made a comment that being called a homophobe for wanting a game to be fun above all else is like having something tbat you love taken away from you and turned into something different. Probably went s bit far with the native American thing but hey it was written out of frustration.
All in all the response I got was pretty much what I've come to expect these days from the internet.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You're on a video game forum, no one gives a shit that you play a video game for the gameplay, going through your post history you never feel the need to mention how much you care solely about gameplay and nothin else. It's almost like there's a correlation between the fact that this thread is about representation and some very outdated mindset and way overused diversionary tactics from letting people even think about discussion representation and equality. EVERYONE EXPECTS A GAME TO HAVE GOOD GAMEPLAY. You aren't a special snowflake who is the only one thinking "gee I hope this game has good gameplay."