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WashingtonPost: "Who are the antifa?"

From WashingtonPost:

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Antifascists argue that after the horrors of chattel slavery and the Holocaust, physical violence against white supremacists is both ethically justifiable and strategically effective. We should not, they argue, abstractly assess the ethical status of violence in the absence of the values and context behind it. Instead, they put forth an ethically consistent, historically informed argument for fighting Nazis before it's too late. As Cornel West explained after surviving neo-Nazi attacks in Charlottesville, ”If it hadn't been for the antifascists protecting us from the neo-fascists, we would have been crushed like cockroaches."

Though antifa are often treated as a new force in American politics since the rise of Trump, the anti-fascist tradition stretches back a century. The first antifascists fought Benito Mussolini's Blackshirts in the Italian countryside, exchanged fire with Adolf Hitler's Brownshirts in the taverns and alleyways of Munich and defended Madrid from Francisco Franco's insurgent nationalist army. Beyond Europe, anti-fascism became a model of resistance for the Chinese against Japanese imperialism during World War II and resistance to Latin American dictatorships.

Modern antifa politics can be traced to resistance to waves of xenophobia and the emergence of white power skinhead culture in Britain in the 1970s and '80s. It also has its roots in self-defense groups organized by revolutionaries and migrants in Germany, as the fall of the Berlin Wall unleashed a violent neo-Nazi backlash.

In the United States and Canada, activists of the Anti-Racist Action Network (ARA) doggedly pursued Klansmen, neo-Nazis and other assorted white supremacists from the late 1980s into the 2000s. Their motto was simple but bold: ”We go where they go." If Nazi skinheads handed out leaflets at a punk show in Indiana about how ”Hitler was right," ARA was there to show them the door. If fascists plastered downtown Alberta's Edmonton with racist posters, ARA tore them down and replaced them with anti-racist slogans.

Responding to small fascist groups may seem trivial to some, but the rise of Hitler and Mussolini show that resistance is not a light switch that can simply be flipped on in a crisis. Once the Nazi and fascist parties gained control of government, it was too late to pull the emergency brake.

In retrospect, antifascists have concluded, it would have been much easier to stop Mussolini back in 1919 when his first fascist nucleus had 100 men. Or to stamp out the far-right German Workers' Party, which had only 54 members when Hitler attended his first meeting, before he transformed it into the National Socialist German Workers' Party (the Nazi Party). Though the regimes that inspired their original protests are long dead, antifascists have devoted themselves to treating small fascist and Nazi groups as if they could be the nucleus of a murderous movement or regime of the future.
 
The problem is that because the group is not centralized and they have no overarching organization, it causes problems as certain groups use the antifa movement to represent their own ideals. Here in Philly recently there's been a problem with professed antifa members who hold anarcho-capitalist beliefs going through working class neighborhoods and vandalizing cars, homes, and businesses.

Generally I renounce violence when it comes to protest movements, though I'm fine with defending yourself and others directly from attacks. But when people carry antifa banners and vandalize neighborhoods and act violently it's pretty ridiculous, especially in an extremely liberal city where a large majority of residents are minorities, not white supremacists.
 
Good read. As someone not too well versed on the history of antifa, I've been doing some research.

To be completely honest, I had no idea what the term even meant.
 

jph139

Member
"Everyone is antifa as long as you hate fascism" is a really dumb statement that muddies the waters around a movement that's relatively new to US politics, so I'd encourage people to stop dropping that one.

Not everyone who supports a republic is a Republican. Not everyone who likes living is pro-life. Not everyone who likes living in a society is a socialist. Not everyone opposed to fascism is antifa.

I think antifa is an important force for good, but their tactics can be criticized on a case-by-case basis. But their role in Charlottesville is 100% "good shit" as far as I know.
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
The coolest ANTIFA from the 80s and 90s were the syndicate and the baldies. They were punk skinheads in physical appearance, but they beat the shit out of nazis all over the Midwest.
 
Violence should only be a response to violence from any side imo. I know half of gaf thinks the alt right should just be punched in the face (or worse) on sight, but I don't agree. I think if anything that only empowers them even more.
 
Good piece. I like that they address how violence in the abstract plays a part of it.

As soon as you accept the fact that words can be violent, I don’t see how there’s any other proper response to Nazism and white supremacy than what antifa is doing.

Also via this post I realize for some damn reason my iPad autocorrects antifa to “Anti-Racist” no matter what I do.
 

Lowmelody

Member
Antifa are a hard check against actual fascism. They will throw down with and chase white supremacists and nazis while others wag their fingers and write think pieces about how to reason with or compromise with them.

It's not just not being a fascist. The article spells it out with examples.
 
Anarchists can be useful in combat as fodder, but they tend to muddle organized protests and are what most people point to when they decry antifa. While almost anyone on the political spectrum can be antifa, the core is socialists and communists.

There are organized antifa partisans that routinely train in firearms and tactics to be prepared for a real fight.
 
Good piece. I like that they address how violence in the abstract plays a part of it.

As soon as you accept the fact that words can be violent, I don’t see how there’s any other proper response to Nazism and white supremacy than what antifa is doing.

Also via this post I realize for some damn reason my iPad autocorrects antifa to “Anti-Racist” no matter what I do.
Settings -> General -> Keyboard - Text replacement. Might sort your issue.
 
Anarchists can be useful in combat as fodder, but they tend to muddle organized protests and are what most people point to when they decry antifa. While almost anyone on the political spectrum can be antifa, the core is socialists and communists.

There are organized antifa partisans that routinely train in firearms and tactics to be prepared for a real fight.
That a problem?
 
Antifa has two purposes: Shout down Nazis and challenge authority.

They are not a political movement in the classical sense, they aren't pursuing a specific goal. Which makes it even weirder that so many right winger point out that they are communists. So what? they aren't actually pushing a communist agenda or anything.

I posted this a couple of time, but I think its worth it for some perspective, a translated german news article about the Antifa:
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German source: http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/chaoten-oder-heilsbringer-danke-liebe-antifa/9382378.html
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
Violence should only be a response to violence from any side imo. I know half of gaf thinks the alt right should just be punched in the face (or worse) on sight, but I don't agree. I think if anything that only empowers them even more.

Well, this is basically the attitude that allows fascism to gain ground, and also your kind of missing the point that physical violence isn't the only form of violence. Telling people that they are subhuman and that they should die is pretty violent, and inevitably leads to physical violence. See all the acts of white terror that have happened just this year. It's people who buy into these ideologies being spread committing these heinous acts. The idea is to stop any of it from happening, because none of it is at all an acceptable way to behave. It's literally fighting violence with violence, which is what these people understand and buy into. Sometimes words don't cut it. The other thing with these nazi rallies is that they are literally showing up, well armed, and starting fights and provoking violence. We're supposed to just let that happen?
 

ISOM

Member
Violence should only be a response to violence from any side imo. I know half of gaf thinks the alt right should just be punched in the face (or worse) on sight, but I don't agree. I think if anything that only empowers them even more.

Except the article gives implicit examples of how an unchecked far-right rise is often a far worse choice then just doing nothing. There are historical examples of how leaving them unchecked has allowed a country to leap into fascistism and dictatorships. You moderates or whatever fail to look at history.
 
It's insane to me to see people advocate use of violence in these situations. It's like they don't know conflict escalation is a thing. Do you people also advocate for vigilante justice?

Except the article gives implicit examples of how an unchecked far-right rise is often a far worse choice then just doing nothing. There are historical examples of how leaving them unchecked has allowed a country to leap into fascists and dictatorships. You moderates or whatever fail to look at history.

Checking the rise of far-right or fascist groups is not solely possible with the use of violence. It's almost like we have a ton of other options to do it.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Responding to small fascist groups may seem trivial to some, but the rise of Hitler and Mussolini show that resistance is not a light switch that can simply be flipped on in a crisis. Once the Nazi and fascist parties gained control of government, it was too late to pull the emergency brake.

In retrospect, antifascists have concluded, it would have been much easier to stop Mussolini back in 1919 when his first fascist nucleus had 100 men. Or to stamp out the far-right German Workers’ Party, which had only 54 members when Hitler attended his first meeting, before he transformed it into the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (the Nazi Party). Though the regimes that inspired their original protests are long dead, antifascists have devoted themselves to treating small fascist and Nazi groups as if they could be the nucleus of a murderous movement or regime of the future.
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ISOM

Member
It's insane to me to see people advocate use of violence in these situations. It's like they don't know conflict escalation is a thing. Do you people also advocate for vigilante justice?



Checking the rise of far-right or fascist groups is not solely possible with the use of violence. It's almost like we have a ton of other options to do it.

I'm still waiting for those other options...
 

mnannola

Member
I don't get it. Anti(something that is objectively bad) is a good thing. If we can't agree that fascism is bad, then I don't know where to go from here.
 

Lowmelody

Member
I don't know how anyone can side against Antifa and what they bring to the fight against tyranny.

There has been en enormous disinformation campaign against them for a while now and most people's first time hearing about them is in a skewed and dishonest article. I've seen people have strong opinions of them without even knowing what their name means.

Some people see violence and shut their brain off and fling shit aimlessly to appear wise and virtuous.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
It's insane to me to see people advocate use of violence in these situations. It's like they don't know conflict escalation is a thing. Do you people also advocate for vigilante justice?



Checking the rise of far-right or fascist groups is not solely possible with the use of violence. It's almost like we have a ton of other options to do it.

It's insane to me that people think Nazis can be stopped with hand-wringing and a sternly worded letter.
 
It's insane to me to see people advocate use of violence in these situations. It's like they don't know conflict escalation is a thing. Do you people also advocate for vigilante justice?
They beat black people in the streets of Charlottesville next to a police station and still walk as free men. They invaded a town with guns, sticks and shields and suffered no consequences. Even the president is on their side. You think the legal system is going to protect the weak?

You're welcome to cower before the Nazis if you want. I know I won't.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
It's insane to me to see people advocate use of violence in these situations. It's like they don't know conflict escalation is a thing. Do you people also advocate for vigilante justice?



Checking the rise of far-right or fascist groups is not solely possible with the use of violence. It's almost like we have a ton of other options to do it.

Some of us believe that conflict escalation is inevitable at this point. Nazi's murdered someone on Saturday in case you forgot.

As for these "other options," what are they? If the government refuses to police these terrorists, then the only other option if for the people to police themselves.
 

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
I don't get it. Anti(something that is objectively bad) is a good thing. If we can't agree that fascism is bad, then I don't know where to go from here.


You can't just trust a name of a group to mark the group's real nature. Otherwise the Democratic People's Republic of Korea would be a fine place.

But yes, looking at what antifa actually does reveals it to be a positive force for change in the US.
 

RDreamer

Member
It's insane to me that people think Nazis can be stopped with hand-wringing and a sternly worded letter.

People (with privilege) think everything can be stopped that way.

The fact is that violence, historically speaking, has done quite a lot to advance many morally good causes. Civil Rights in this country would have got almost fucking nowhere without violence.
 

blackflag

Member
It's insane to me to see people advocate use of violence in these situations. It's like they don't know conflict escalation is a thing. Do you people also advocate for vigilante justice?



Checking the rise of far-right or fascist groups is not solely possible with the use of violence. It's almost like we have a ton of other options to do it.

It's literally the only thing that's ever worked though.
 
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