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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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I don't think his statements about Wainwright beyond the obvious PS3 issue hold weight in the context of his piece. Sure, he's just using his instincts that it seems fishy, but without some support for those claims, it's not really journalism either.

If he had cited where she clearly spells out doing freelance for S-E, that one weakness in the article would have gone away and she wouldn't have a leg to stand on to claim he was just making up dirt on her. (I still don't think what was said could honestly be called libelous.)

Bottom line though, I read this as an opinion piece, and certainly something Eurogamer should have not published if they weren't willing to stand behind it. Florence is doing the right thing for himself and others by walking.
 
I don't think his statements about Wainwright beyond the obvious PS3 issue hold weight in the context of his piece. Sure, he's just using his instincts that it seems fishy, but without some support for those claims, it's not really journalism either.

If had cited where she clearly spells out doing freelance for S-E, that one weakness in the article would have gone away and she wouldn't have a leg to stand on to claim he was just making up dirt on her. (I still don't think what was said could honestly be called libelous.)

Bottom line though, I read this as an opinion piece, and certainly something Eurogamer should have not published if they weren't willing to stand behind it. Florence is doing the right thing for himself and others by walking.

He wasn't trying to make her out to be fishy, only that readers of her twitter account might be put off by her shilling considering she is also a journalist. Casts doubt regardless of intent.
 

sephi22

Member
We need a new thread or at least a title change given the massive change in direction of this thread.

I think she needs to research what libel means. Actually no, it's too late, she's "won". Another journalist has quit over a situation where he as far as I can see did nothing wrong. Disgusting.
All these disgusted journalists should come together and form some kind of super website specializing in hard hitting 'games journalism'.

A website that's basically Polygon without the suck
 

Coxy

Member
Meaghan worked for Game Informer before she ended up as the community manager at CD. It seems pretty common in the industry. Didn't some big HALO fan from 1up end up the the community manager job at Bungie?

Anyone writing with this as their end goal has a massive conflict of interest, this shouldnt need to be said.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
So many seem to be angling always for their future outside of journalism, inside one of these other games companies.

Just be a journalist or be a developer. If you want to work for a developer go do an art degree or a comp sci degree or a PR degree or whatever. If you want to be a journalist, do a journalism degree and be a journalist. So many writers seem to just fall into it and don't really seem sure of what they want, flirting with doors to other industry opportunities half the time. I get the impression some don't really want to be working on this side of the fence, and are willing to sell over their independence as a writer for the chance of a future on the publishing/dev side. Because they don't really care about being a serious/credible/impartial commentator.
 

PaulLFC

Member
All these disgusted journalists should come together and form some kind of super website specializing in hard hitting 'games journalism'.

A website that's basically Polygon without the suck
RPS is very good, it's probably the closest we have to that.
 

Dennis

Banned
Journalists defending Keighley

Plenty of gaffers are also defending Dorito Dew Keighley......

I wonder if the way Americans have gotten used to corporations ramming their shit advertising down peoples throat also makes them accept even this paid "journalism".
 
gifs_131.gif

I'm going to need some context here, must know how this ended!

I also agree with many, this would have been easily avoided but now she just seems like a pretentious bitch.
 
So many seem to be angling always for their future outside of journalism, inside one of these other games companies.

This is endemic in financial reporting, too, fwiw, for anyone thinking this is somehow special to the "junior" reporting in the games industry.

To an extent politics and private industry have the same problem, too. Get a regulatory position, then move into that same sphere in private industry leveraging your contacts in the government.
 

Fistwell

Member
Schrödinger's cat;43589488 said:
Your cruelty in quoting my statement posted in a public forum has been noted. You can expect a threatening call from my legal department in the immediate future.

Good day.
I quit. A promising career of community manager at square-enix is awaiting me. (buy Tomb Raider?)

Maybe Polygon could address their questioned integrity by taking on Rab now?
Or how about actually discussing the situation in a news piece? (Possibly) exposed SE shill gets free-lance writer to quit his gig by ways of (ludicrous) threats of legal action?
Sounds like news to me.
 

Zekes!

Member
I read this article yesterday when it was first posted and unedited. Didn't really expect it to blow up like this, but it's created some interesting events.
 
He wasn't trying to make her out to be fishy, only that readers of her twitter account might be put off by her shilling considering she is also a journalist. Casts doubt regardless of intent.

I'm sure he had the best of intentions, and he tried to qualify that he "was sure she isn't" in S-E's back pocket (which if anything, her suspect behavior and flat out lies make it seem more like she could be).

I guess all I'm really saying is it's something he could have omitted without hurting the strength of his piece. But of course hindsight is 20/20, and maybe this really is the best thing that could have come out of the piece. A writer has to be satisfied when his work has a real effect, and we've gotten to see some people's true colors. And what more can we ask from a writer than that he be honest?
 

Bedlam

Member
I don't think his statements about Wainwright beyond the obvious PS3 issue hold weight in the context of his piece. Sure, he's just using his instincts that it seems fishy, but without some support for those claims, it's not really journalism either.

If he had cited where she clearly spells out doing freelance for S-E, that one weakness in the article would have gone away and she wouldn't have a leg to stand on to claim he was just making up dirt on her. (I still don't think what was said could honestly be called libelous.)

Bottom line though, I read this as an opinion piece, and certainly something Eurogamer should have not published if they weren't willing to stand behind it. Florence is doing the right thing for himself and others by walking.
Disagreed.

Florence merely pointed out that the combination of taking part in a "tweet about our game and win XY" competition and displaying your love for a game like that will inevitably raise suspicion which is something you'll want to avoid when you call yourself a journalist.

This was an article about the problematic ties between videogame journalists and PR and Florence didn't claim anything that wasn't backed up.
 
Wainwright has basically made an admission of guilt. The article didnt even accuse her, but just quoted her. At least this can silence the final kicks of babies crying that gaming journalism exists. Why is journalism needed for something as trivial as gaming asides from an exersizes in validation?
 

Varth

Member
So help me understand: if someone jumps to conclusions and not_so_subtly implies in an article that I'm corrupt starting from something that is reprehensible but nothing else, HE is a great, brave journo.

If I ask him to prove it in court, his editor realizes both can be held responsible for defamation and amends my article, me and the editor are part of a corrupt elite that feeds on trinkets.

Going by this reasoning, in Italy we have this guy who's an hero of journalistic integrity in danger. GAF to the rescue!
 

pargonta

Member
Or how about actually discussing the situation in a news piece? (Possibly) exposed SE shill gets free-lance writer to quit his gig by ways of (ludicrous) threats of legal action?
Sounds like news to me.

Indeed, where is the news article?

this should be breaking news today...

perfect for a newly launched website.

that is, they do not come out supporting either side, but report on the story.

edit: instead, they are leading today with DLC announcements for Dishonored and Minecraft. Are you selling stuff or are you journalists eh?
 

Omikaru

Member
So help me understand: if someone jumps to conclusions and not_so_subtly implies in an article that I'm corrupt starting from something that is reprehensible but nothing else, HE is a great, brave journo.

If I ask him to prove it in court, his editor realizes both can be held responsible for defamation and amends my article, me and the editor are part of a corrupt elite that feeds on trinkets.

Going by this reasoning, in Italy we have this guy who's an hero of journalistic integrity in danger. GAF to the rescue!

Nothing he wrote was libellous. The reason they amended the article was to avoid legal costs on a case they would likely win. Libel is expensive in the UK, and the cost alone is enough for some people to censor themselves, even if they've done nothing wrong.
 
Oh god knew I recognised that name, the twitter handle confirmed it. I knew Lauren when she was first getting started as a "gaming journalist", she was a bloody idiot then. Guess some things never change.
 

Varth

Member
Nothing he said was libellous. The reason they amended the article was to avoid legal costs on a case they would likely win.

Jumping from "this is reprehensible" to "you're in SE pocket" is something that will definitely get you a sentence. Any legal consultant will tell you that. Don't you think EG has an in-house legal office that can verify this? You can't really believe they acted out of panic just for hearing the word "court" do you?
 

Sanic

Member
I wish the thread title was a little more indicative of what's going on. This is kind of a big deal, and an interesting read, but I only stumbled upon it at random.
 

Omikaru

Member
Jumping from "this is reprehensible" to "you're in SE pocket" is something that will definitely get you a sentence. Any legal consultant will tell you that. Don't you think EG has an in-house legal office that can verify this? You can't really believe they acted out of panic just for hearing the word "court" do you?

But Rab Florence didn't say that. He basically said, "If you sometimes do things that make you look like ketchup and taste like ketchup, then people will think you're ketchup, even though I don't think you are. You need to be mindful of what others see you as, and act appropriately." He never once said, "You're ketchup."

This was purely a case of using the costs of libel proceedings to bully someone else into submission. Nothing about what Florence wrote was actionable.
 

PaulLFC

Member
Jumping from "this is reprehensible" to "you're in SE pocket" is something that will definitely get you a sentence. Any legal consultant will tell you that. Don't you think EG has an in-house legal office that can verify this? You can't really believe they acted out of panic just for hearing the word "court" do you?
Could you stop misquoting people?
 

mclem

Member
it's what came when you become a journalist.You can have your opinion,but you can publicly state it if your job is to give impartial opinions.

I can state categorically that I genuinely do not know what political party Jeremy Paxman supports. That's journalism.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I don't think his statements about Wainwright beyond the obvious PS3 issue hold weight in the context of his piece. Sure, he's just using his instincts that it seems fishy, but without some support for those claims, it's not really journalism either.

If he had cited where she clearly spells out doing freelance for S-E, that one weakness in the article would have gone away and she wouldn't have a leg to stand on to claim he was just making up dirt on her. (I still don't think what was said could honestly be called libelous.)

Bottom line though, I read this as an opinion piece, and certainly something Eurogamer should have not published if they weren't willing to stand behind it. Florence is doing the right thing for himself and others by walking.

I don't think he even says its fishy. He says that it could be construed as fishy by some, given that she tweets about Tomb Raider and the publisher is handing out PS3s to journos

the simple way to avoid such suspicion is to not take part in competitions where you win things from companies that you are reporting about.
 
So help me understand: if someone jumps to conclusions and not_so_subtly implies in an article that I'm corrupt starting from something that is reprehensible but nothing else, HE is a great, brave journo.

If I ask him to prove it in court, his editor realizes both can be held responsible for defamation and amends my article, me and the editor are part of a corrupt elite that feeds on trinkets.

Going by this reasoning, in Italy we have this guy who's an hero of journalistic integrity in danger. GAF to the rescue!

This discussion is healthy, and needs to happen. The reaction is only revealing the threat it represents to certain parties. This bullshit industry needs to clean up it's act, and it absolutely has to start with the integrity of the media covering it, which is at this point entirely compromised - it's just advertising, regardless of whether it's for the games themselves or associated products.

If you can't see that, well then you really need to look closer.
 

Varth

Member
Except he didn't say that.

Nothing he wrote was libellous.

And instantly I am suspicious. I am suspicious of this journalist's apparent love for Tomb Raider. I am asking myself whether she's in the pocket of the Tomb Raider PR team. I'm sure she isn't, but the doubt is there. After all, she sees nothing wrong with journalists promoting a game to win a PS3, right?

You can phrase it any way you want, shield it behind a ton of "I'm sure she isn't, but the doubt is there". It's still libellous. You're implying. I know that, he knows that. EG lawyers know that.

Anywhere else, someone who wrote a piece on that without having proof to back it up would have been asket to stick to the facts. In fact, many would argue that the article was amended because it's sloppy journalism.
 

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
Going by this reasoning, in Italy we have this guy who's an hero of journalistic integrity in danger. GAF to the rescue!


To be fair, Italy has a culture that allowed the fruition of a belief that 6 scientists were guilty of manslaughter because they failed to predict the occurrence of an earthquake. Apparently all scientists have a direct line to Saint Peter or something.
 

Curufinwe

Member
Pretty much. Companies would love to have them as "community manager" cause the community is already familiar with their shilling towards a certain company, and will feel "comfortable" with their work.

Shane doesn't work as a community manager, though. He's in business development, as he was in his first job after leaving games journalism at Ignition.
 
1UP is definitely the worst offender, 3 or 4 ended up on Microsoft too including the infamous Halo fanboy.

Shane was the worst even bumping reviews of first party Sony games. Look back at his EGM reviews and for each game he gave first party games at least one point extra than the other two reviewers on Sony published titles.
 
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