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Kirlia
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Man God

EO1 or Untold? Makes a difference.

For EO 1 You really can't go wrong with Protector/Landshark/Medic/Alchemist/Survivalist.

For Untold you can do with practically any party.

For either game, though, I've heard that a Troubadour is borderline mandatory for the sixth stratum.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
(11-10-2014, 10:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shizuka

If you guys could suggest a good party for a newbie to play and complete IV, how would it be?

L/F/D
R

Fortress= Taunt and defense passive.
Landsknecht =some points in Power Boost and Power Break to reduce enemy damageat the beginning.
Dancer = 4 points in Regen Walts and some Evasion Passive.
Runemaster = TP boost + Lightning rune

That's what I recommend at the beginning, you can reset and change your skills at the cost of 2 levels, which you will probably do when you unlock more skills(level 20, level 40).

For your last memeber just have whoever you want, if you plan to never retire your members then go Nightseeker, as they become insanly good when you reach level 40 because of Venom Throw. I also don't think the Fortress is that great after about half way through the game, I replaced my Fortress with an Arcanist(class you get later on)


That's what I recommend if you want something that works, don't level passive skills till max because of the diminishing returns, here's an example:

Iron Wall(Fortress skill)
Reduces damage taken from physical attacks.

Level 1: 95% damage taken
Level 2: 91% damage taken
Level 3: 88% damage taken
Level 4: 85% damage taken
Level 5: 83% damage taken
Level 6: 81% damage taken
Level 7: 79% damage taken
Level 8: 77% damage taken
Level 9: 76% damage taken
Level 10: 75% damage taken

as you can see, the final levels just give you a small boost that isn't worth it. But it depends of what you want your characters to do, my Fortress was pretty much only a wall so I actually maxed the skill.
Last edited by Mauricio_Magus; 11-10-2014 at 10:41 PM.
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(11-10-2014, 10:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

For either game, though, I've heard that a Troubadour is borderline mandatory for the sixth stratum.

You need to be able to do electric damage somehow and you need to spend TP doing it. Troubadors can get you that TP and physical bolt damage in a very slow but steady manner. Or you can bring an Alchemist specialized in bolting fools and win fights in one turn and use healing items. Or you can bench the Survivalist, easily the best backrow physical damage dealer and go with both.
Kirlia
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:34 PM)
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I will stress that, in EO4, starting with a Sniper is SUPER helpful for binding enemies. My Sniper made the second stratum boss VERY easy. I really don't know if I would have had such an easy time without my Sniper, even though I had Wufan in the party as well.

Originally Posted by Man God

You need to be able to do electric damage somehow and you need to spend TP doing it. Troubadors can get you that TP and physical bolt damage in a very slow but steady manner. Or you can bring an Alchemist specialized in bolting fools and win fights in one turn and use healing items. Or you can bench the Survivalist, easily the best backrow physical damage dealer and go with both.

My EOU1 team was Landsknecht/Ronin/Protector/Alchemist/Medic. I'd probably have to replace my Ronin with a Troubadour or Survivalist if I tried a sixth stratum run above Picnic difficulty...yes, it may sound pathetic that I went with that difficulty, but EOU1 WAS my first EO game and I wanted to ease myself into it. By the time I played EO4 on Normal, I felt more confident in my labyrinth survival skills.
Last edited by Kirlia; 11-10-2014 at 10:37 PM.
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(11-10-2014, 10:36 PM)
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EO IV is an easy game in general. Disappointingly easy. I never wiped once.

Also not a fan of its mini dungeon/different areas thing. One big ass dungeon again.
Kirlia
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Man God

EO IV is an easy game in general. Disappointingly easy. I never wiped once.

Also not a fan of its mini dungeon/different areas thing. One big ass dungeon again.

Which EO did you start with? EO4 didn't feel overly difficult, but it had its moments of genuine challenge.
omlet
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

For either game, though, I've heard that a Troubadour is borderline mandatory for the sixth stratum.

Troubadour mandatory in Untold? Not even. Cleared up to postgame boss on classic expert mode with P/D/R | H/M. Take an Alchemist and a Protector and you're golden.

I leveled a troubadour later for giggles and all she ever did was use Wolf Pack and other grimoire skills, so I just stuck with a medic for better healing. Can't afford those buff slots for healing, need them to stack Bloody Offence with other attack buffs.
jdkluv
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Man God

EO1 or Untold? Makes a difference.

For EO 1 You really can't go wrong with Protector/Landshark/Medic/Alchemist/Survivalist.

For Untold you can do with practically any party.

DS version, as I previously stated on reply #48. :<

(Thanks for the suggestion!)

Originally Posted by Aaronrules380

I'd honestly recommend getting untold or IV if you want to get into the series. EO1 is by all accounts very imbalanced, with a few (from what I've heard) really OP strategies and a lot of really useless skills and classes. That said I started on II (which was also kind of unbalanced). I wouldn't stress about playing the games in order if that's why you want to start with 1. Plus, untold is an improved remake of 1 in the first place

The thing is I generally prefer to see how a series I want to get into has evolved with each new game, because honestly, a LOT of series just feel disappointing if you go backwards rather than forwards. I guess I'm just weird like that, haha.
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(11-10-2014, 10:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

Which EO did you start with? EO4 didn't feel overly difficult, but it had its moments of genuine challenge.

EO 1. Had to buy it from Gamestop with an employee's save already on it about three days after it launched.

I'm a big, big, big fan of the first two games. The moves to making it story based and the sub-classes and lackluster difficulty of 3 and 4 have been slowly pushing me away.

I might be the only person alive that prefers Untold to 4.
Linkark07
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

Which EO did you start with? EO4 didn't feel overly difficult, but it had its moments of genuine challenge.

The only real challenges I recall were the second and third stratum bosses.

Originally Posted by Man God

I might be the only person alive that prefers Untold to 4.

You aren't the only one. Mostly ignored the Grimoire stones in Untold.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
(11-10-2014, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Linkark07

The only real challenges I recall were the second and third stratum bosses.

the post game stuff was challenging, even if my Nightseeker made every random battle a joke.

Originally Posted by Man God

EO 1. Had to buy it from Gamestop with an employee's save already on it about three days after it launched.

I'm a big, big, big fan of the first two games. The moves to making it story based and the sub-classes and lackluster difficulty of 3 and 4 have been slowly pushing me away.

I might be the only person alive that prefers Untold to 4.

If 4 had an Expert mode then the game would be perfect. :p
Last edited by Mauricio_Magus; 11-10-2014 at 10:47 PM.
omlet
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

My EOU1 team was Landsknecht/Ronin/Protector/Alchemist/Medic. I'd probably have to replace my Ronin with a Troubadour or Survivalist if I tried a sixth stratum run above Picnic difficulty...yes, it may sound pathetic that I went with that difficulty, but EOU1 WAS my first EO game and I wanted to ease myself into it. By the time I played EO4 on Normal, I felt more confident in my labyrinth survival skills.

Huh? Dude, that team is like tailor made to easily handle the last stratum on expert mode.

You have healing.
You have the ability to block those nasty Spark/Freeze AOEs.
You have front line damage.
You have volt and fire to kill scorpions and hexroots.
You don't have binds but you can probably make do.

Dun be scurred.
Last edited by omlet; 11-10-2014 at 10:45 PM.
Kirlia
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by omlet

Troubadour mandatory in Untold? Not even. Cleared up to postgame boss on classic expert mode with P/D/R | H/M. Take an Alchemist and a Protector and you're golden.

Up to...wait, you BEAT the postgame boss on Expert?! Damn, I tip my hat to you!

I've never tried using a Hexer (I plan to in Untold 2), but maybe I'll make one in EOU1 when I beat EO3.
Pyros_Eien
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

I will stress that, in EO4, starting with a Sniper is SUPER helpful for binding enemies. My Sniper made the second stratum boss VERY easy. I really don't know if I would have had such an easy time without my Sniper, even though I had Wufan in the party as well.

Well you kinda say in your spoiler how you do it, didn't have an issue. I originally had a sniper but replaced her with a runemaster and didn't regret my decision, and Arcanist is just a much better class at binding with the increased chance passive, higher luck and the reset resistance thing(even though that costs most of your mana).

IV was my first game in the series and I went with a fairly standard rpg party, Landsknecht/Fortress/Nightstalker in front and Runemaster/Medic in the back. Retired the medic into an arcanist when that became available, Land with elemental links, nightstalker to kill trash(that spread venom throw, so good) and proc the land's links with swift edge, runemaster to proc further links with multihit and debuff bosses, fortress party guarding(though definitely the least useful class of the lot) and arcanist to bind/heal/rez.
Kirlia
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Linkark07

The only real challenges I recall were the second and third stratum bosses.

That third stratum boss can burn in Hell forever. Even when I weakened it outside of battle and wore Fire Charms, it was still annoying and actually gave me more trouble than the second stratum boss.

Originally Posted by omlet

Huh? Dude, that team is like tailor made to easily handle the last stratum on expert mode. Dun be scurred.

Even on Picnic mode, the Depth Dancers...dear God, the Depth Dancers...

Originally Posted by Pyros_Eien

Well you kinda say in your spoiler how you do it, didn't have an issue. I originally had a sniper but replaced her with a runemaster and didn't regret my decision, and Arcanist is just a much better class at binding with the increased chance passive, higher luck and the reset resistance thing(even though that costs most of your mana).

But I've heard of people having trouble with the second stratum boss even with Wufan...maybe I was just lucky? My Sniper did outspeed absolutely everything, though. Her and my Runemaster wrecked EVERYTHING.
Last edited by Kirlia; 11-10-2014 at 10:46 PM.
syncyes
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:45 PM)
After finishing off Untold on Story/Expert I'm playing EOIV on the highest difficulty and for some reason it is giving me A LOT OF TROUBLE.

Like, I just can't seem to get a good party synergy going and it's honestly bothering me a lot. I feel like I have a decent amount of EO experience, what is this?

...also, I don't really enjoy having an overworld.
Kirlia
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(11-10-2014, 10:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by syncyes

After finishing off Untold on Story/Expert I'm playing EOIV on the highest difficulty and for some reason it is giving me A LOT OF TROUBLE.

Like, I just can't seem to get a good party synergy going and it's honestly bothering me a lot. I feel like I have a decent amount of EO experience, what is this?

...also, I don't really enjoy having an overworld.

Hm. What's your party composition?
NichM
genuinely nice all-around human being
(11-10-2014, 10:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by RangerBAD

My one question is why they localized Yggdrasil's Labyrinth to Etrian's Odyssey. What was wrong with that translation?

At the time, we had just published games called Yggdra Union and Deep Labyrinth, so we wanted to differentiate it. Kind of weird in hindsight, but oh well.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
(11-10-2014, 10:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by syncyes

After finishing off Untold on Story/Expert I'm playing EOIV on the highest difficulty and for some reason it is giving me A LOT OF TROUBLE.

Like, I just can't seem to get a good party synergy going and it's honestly bothering me a lot. I feel like I have a decent amount of EO experience, what is this?

...also, I don't really enjoy having an overworld.

Can you post your team? maybe we can help you out.
omlet
Member
(11-10-2014, 10:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

Up to...wait, you BEAT the postgame boss on Expert?! Damn, I tip my hat to you!

I've never tried using a Hexer (I plan to in Untold 2), but maybe I'll make one in EOU1 when I beat EO3.

Well, by "up to" I mean I got to him with my original party on classic expert mode and got destroyed. I did beat him on Expert mode eventually, yes, but not with my starting party.

Hexers are one of my favorite classes and they can really trivialize non-boss encounters to a hilarious degree but they are not really a good class to take against the postgame boss.

Originally Posted by Kirlia

Even on Picnic mode, the Depth Dancers...dear God, the Depth Dancers...

I actually used shiny Depth Dancers to power level on during my new game plus. Hexer makes them a joke on anything but expert mode.
Soulhouf
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(11-10-2014, 10:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by jdkluv

Same question for EO1 as well. I might probably play it once I'm done with Brandish SNES (dunno what possessed me to play this version, but it was good fun).

Go with the classic Landsknecht/Protector/Medic/Alchemist/Survivalist team.
Poison is OP in the beginning of the game, so go with that for the the Alchemist and change later.
You can't really go wrong with that team so experience the different skills and later reclass them for something better.

PS: Going for SNES Brandish huh? You're crazy.
I have that game sitting on my shelf. I should try it some day!
Last edited by Soulhouf; 11-10-2014 at 10:55 PM.
Kirlia
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(11-10-2014, 10:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by omlet

Well, by "up to" I mean I got to him with my original party on classic expert mode and got destroyed. I did beat him on Expert mode eventually, yes, but not with my starting party.

Hexers are one of my favorite classes and they can really trivialize non-boss encounters to a hilarious degree but they are not really a good class to take against the postgame boss.

Nice. What was the party you used to defeat him? And was it a narrow victory?

Hexers seem very awesome, but I've been told that they're best against random encounters and F.O.Es (even the Depth Dancer on Standard and below, huh?) and not super-difficult bosses. I definitely want to give them a try by Untold 2 at the latest (which HAS to be coming here, right?).
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(11-10-2014, 10:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by NichM

At the time, we had just published games called Yggdra Union and Deep Labyrinth, so we wanted to differentiate it. Kind of weird in hindsight, but oh well.

Got any excuses for the font?
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
(11-10-2014, 10:58 PM)
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Hexers are soooo good, I used them in EO1/2/Untold and I'll use one again in Untold 2.

I wish story mode had a Hexer, I'd love a gloomy Hexer in the party.
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(11-10-2014, 11:00 PM)
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Hexers kinda suck in EO1. Man do they look cool.

Made up for it by being super stronk in EO 2 and very good in Untold.
syncyes
Member
(11-10-2014, 11:00 PM)

Originally Posted by Mauricio_Magus

Can you post your team? maybe we can help you out.

Originally Posted by Kirlia

Hm. What's your party composition?

At the moment

L/F
NS/M/RM

(abbreviations might be incorrect)

The Nightseeker is underleveled which is why he's in the back row for now. I was doing L/F;S/M/RM for a while but I still didn't like it. Honestly, I don't really have a set party because I haven't felt comfortable with anything so far? Fiddling around a lot and nothing seems to click.
omlet
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(11-10-2014, 11:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

Nice. What was the party you used to defeat him? And was it a narrow victory?

Hexers seem very awesome, but I've been told that they're best against random encounters and F.O.Es (even the Depth Dancer on Standard and below, huh?) and not super-difficult bosses. I definitely want to give them a try by Untold 2 at the latest (which HAS to be coming here, right?).

My EOU play went like this: Classic Expert, got to postgame boss, got obliterated -> NG+ Story Mode Normal, zoomed through to see story mode stuff -> NG+ Classic Picnic, got caught back up to last stratum and put it back on Expert mode, finally beat postgame boss.

I actually beat him with the story mode comp of Hi/P/G/M/A but the protector and medic were actually my already-retired level 99 classic mode characters from my first playthrough rather than the story mode ones.

It wasn't even close. He was dead in 5 turns and everyone was basically still full HP. Basically stomped him as hard as he stomped me the first time lol.

Doing it like this requires LOTS of work on your grimoires for the entire party. Otherwise you're in for a longer, more dangerous fight.
Kirlia
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(11-10-2014, 11:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by omlet

My EOU play went like this: Classic Expert, got to postgame boss, got obliterated -> NG+ Story Mode Normal, zoomed through to see story mode stuff -> NG+ Classic Picnic, got caught back up to last stratum and put it back on Expert mode, finally beat postgame boss.

I actually beat him with the story mode comp of Hi/P/G/M/A but the protector and medic were actually my already-retired level 99 classic mode characters from my first playthrough rather than the story mode ones.

It wasn't even close. He was dead in 5 turns and everyone was basically still full HP. Basically stomped him as hard as he stomped me the first time lol.

Doing it like this requires LOTS of work on your grimoires for the entire party. Otherwise you're in for a longer, more dangerous fight.

Do you remember any super vital skills that were on the grimoires? Were they enemy-exclusive abilities? I think the best grimoires are ones that can drop from bosses, right? Man, I really need to get around to beating Story Mode EOU1.

Also, are Highlanders and Gunners that are not Story Mode characters only obtainable through Class Change?
RangerBAD
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(11-10-2014, 11:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by NichM

At the time, we had just published games called Yggdra Union and Deep Labyrinth, so we wanted to differentiate it. Kind of weird in hindsight, but oh well.

Oh, okay. I can see the reasoning there. I still think it would have been a great title. :p
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
(11-10-2014, 11:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by syncyes

At the moment

L/F
NS/M/RM

(abbreviations might be incorrect)

The Nightseeker is underleveled which is why he's in the back row for now. I was doing L/F;S/M/RM for a while but I still didn't like it. Honestly, I don't really have a set party because I haven't felt comfortable with anything so far? Fiddling around a lot and nothing seems to click.

  • I can see why you might not like the team, but I feel it's mostly that you don't get much synergy in your team until your L can do some links(which won't happen till later), at the beginning the L is just a character that does some damage, is kinda tanky, and can lower the enemies damage..
  • Nightseeker is a long time investment, your NS becomes a god of death when they are level 40(Venom THROOOW)
  • Fortress is just there to take damage, I replaced my Fortress when I got the Arcanist because you no longer need a tank by then.
  • I don't like the Medic and I'd recommend you to change it to a Dancer and get her in the front row. You get an awesome "healer" later in the game too.
  • Runemaster, focus on the first Volt spell, it's awesome and you shouldn't need anything else for a while.

Don't worry so much, I think your team is okay, if you already finished Untold in Expert then you'll be fine, unless you're fighting some difficult enemies really early on for some reason.
Last edited by Mauricio_Magus; 11-10-2014 at 11:16 PM.
Kirlia
Member
(11-10-2014, 11:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mauricio_Magus

  • I can see why you might not like the team, but I feel it's mostly that you don't get much synergy in your team until your L can do some links(which won't happen till later), at the beginning the L is just a character that does some damage, is kinda tanky, and can lower the enemies damage..
  • Nightseeker is a long time investment, your NS becomes a god of death when they are level 40(Venom THROOOW)
  • Fortress is just there to take damage, I replaced my Fortress when I got the Arcanist and you no longer need a tank by then.
  • I don't like the Medic and I'd recommend you to change it to a Dancer and get her in the front row. You get an awesome "healer" later in the game too.
  • Runemaster, focus on the first Volt spell, it's awesome and you shouldn't need anything else for a while.

Yeah, your team is fine. Some notes of my own:

-I did not use a Nightseeker before post-game, but Venom Throw is wonderful.
-Landsknecht is a great Linker, but it will take time to build it up.
-Fortress is amazing, especially if you subclass it with Dancer. My F/D (with Party Shield) survive the final story boss's strongest attack, which can wipe out the entire party if not stopped. Then again, I felt like I had a harder time on the final boss than most people do...probably because I kept my Sniper and didn't replace her with an Arcanist. No regrets, though!
-Although I used the Medic for the whole game (a Medic/Fortress with Holy Blessing can be quite respectable), Arcanist/Medic can take care of most healing woes, so I see why people replace their Medics later in the game.
-YES to having the Runemaster focus on Volt spells. Get Galvanic Rune as fast as you can. It is wonderful.
DealWithIt
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(11-10-2014, 11:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mauricio_Magus

  • I can see why you might not like the team, but I feel it's mostly that you don't get much synergy in your team until your L can do some links(which won't happen till later), at the beginning the L is just a character that does some damage, is kinda tanky, and can lower the enemies damage..
  • Nightseeker is a long time investment, your NS becomes a god of death when they are level 40(Venom THROOOW)
  • Fortress is just there to take damage, I replaced my Fortress when I got the Arcanist and you no longer need a tank by then.
  • I don't like the Medic and I'd recommend you to change it to a Dancer and get her in the front row. You get an awesome "healer" later in the game too.
  • Runemaster, focus on the first Volt spell, it's awesome and you shouldn't need anything else for a while.

Don't worry so much, I think your team is okay, if you already finished Untold in Expert then you'll be fine, unless you're fighting some difficult enemies really early on for some reason.

I have been running:
L N M
Rm Arc
(I replaced my sniper with an arcanist)

I have found it to be very solid as a party. The arcanist gives passive heal and keeps the enemy in status problems. The L (subclassed to fortress) tanks and uses power break. The rune master and Nightseeker nuke. The key is to use shadow bite and poison circle in concert. Very high damage. The runemaster is especially powerful for burst skills.

Question: I have only played EO4. I figure I will play EO1 next. Should I buy vanilla or the remake?
SatelliteOfLove
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(11-10-2014, 11:20 PM)
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One of the best parts of this series is that it got me into dungeon crawlers of all kinds, but the fine hand-crafted level design in EOs have yet to be beaten. There's flavor and tons of secrets and dangers in each stretch of every stratum. That is very high praise.

Favorite class is still the Medic (I'm a healer at heart).

The best entry is still EO2 (it's the perfect mix of UI iteration and bend you over the countertop brutality).

The best music is still EO3. Koshiro musta been especially inspired during that one.

Originally Posted by Aeana

I love this series so much. I even like the Untold games.
And I am excited for Persona Q because it gives me more EO with a different skin.


It's really too bad that one of the most appealing elements of the series is no more, though. The FM music really added something special, and I will probably never get over it going away in EO4. And then the cancellation of the EO4 FM album. I can't. :(

Ah, that Yamaha YM2608 goodness. But yeah, he himself has said he wanted to change. It is his will, so it shall be...
Last edited by SatelliteOfLove; 11-10-2014 at 11:23 PM.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
(11-10-2014, 11:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by DealWithIt

I have been running:
L N M
Rm Arc
(I replaced my sniper with an arcanist)

I have found it to be very solid as a party. The arcanist gives passive heal and keeps the enemy in status problems. The L (subclassed to fortress) tanks and uses power break. The rune master and Nightseeker nuke. The key is to use shadow bite and poison circle in concert. Very high damage. The runemaster is especially powerful for burst skills.

Question: I have only played EO4. I figure I will play EO1 next. Should I buy vanilla or the remake?

We have a pretty similar team, the only difference is that I had a Dancer, I just used the healing dance once every 6 turns and could constantly auto attack and get everything stunned, she has insane evasion so she rarely got hit, it also helped my links. Dancer plus Arcanist passive healing is insanely good, no need for Medic.

To answer your question: Remake/Classic Mode/Expert
Last edited by Mauricio_Magus; 11-10-2014 at 11:26 PM.
syncyes
Member
(11-10-2014, 11:25 PM)
Alright, guess I'll keep chugging along. The party just feels very fragile to me right now. 2nd stratum keeps wiping them out. Might just be underleveled though.

Originally Posted by DealWithIt

Question: I have only played EO4. I figure I will play EO1 next. Should I buy vanilla or the remake?

Go with the remake. The original has aged a bit now, and it has a lot of quality of life issues that get remedied later on--ie, no strafing, can't show what direction shortcuts go in, etc.
NormalFish
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(11-10-2014, 11:25 PM)
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So I haven't managed to get an answer that makes sense to me so I'm curious: Why do a lot of EO fans dislike Untold? Is it really just the presence of the story?
Kirlia
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(11-10-2014, 11:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by DealWithIt

I have been running:
Question: I have only played EO4. I figure I will play EO1 next. Should I buy vanilla or the remake?

Go for the remake's Classic mode and whatever difficulty suits you (Expert provides the most challenge).

Originally Posted by NormalFish

So I haven't managed to get an answer that makes sense to me so I'm curious: Why do a lot of EO fans dislike Untold? Is it really just the presence of the story?

That seems to be the big issue, but a lot of people seem to hate Grimoires as well (mostly that it's total luck as to when you get one, and if it's any good).
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(11-10-2014, 11:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by NormalFish

So I haven't managed to get an answer that makes sense to me so I'm curious: Why do a lot of EO fans dislike Untold? Is it really just the presence of the story?

Most of it comes from people who really liked the subclassing in 3 and 4 and didn't want it gone in the remake. I myself think the game is better without it. To alleviate that they added in a system that allowed you to grab skills off of enemies in a very frustrating and random way...which a lot of people didn't appreciate. I always found Grimoires to be a nice little bonus and nothing to obsess over.
Kirlia
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(11-10-2014, 11:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Man God

Most of it comes from people who really liked the subclassing in 3 and 4 and didn't want it gone in the remake. I myself think the game is better without it. To alleviate that they added in a system that allowed you to grab skills off of enemies in a very frustrating and random way...which a lot of people didn't appreciate. I always found Grimoires to be a nice little bonus and nothing to obsess over.

I hope they improve getting Grimoires in EOU2. I understand how they didn't add subclassing in the remakes, though; they didn't exist in the original at all. I've seen people be afraid that subclasses will be outright REMOVED in a potential EOU3, but I really can't see that happening. If it does...well, at least I have the original EO3!
Mauricio_Magus
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(11-10-2014, 11:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by NormalFish

So I haven't managed to get an answer that makes sense to me so I'm curious: Why do a lot of EO fans dislike Untold? Is it really just the presence of the story?

  • Story mode got Gunner/Highlander which weren't included in Classic Mode.
  • Extra floors for Story Mode.
  • Story Mode spoils the fucking story in the first minutes.
  • Grimoire System being luck based and grindy as fuck, screw it.
  • Only one save file when there's 2 modes.

Now in a pesonal level, I think most fans fear for the future of the series, the focus on story mode instead of classic gets us worried because an important part of the series is the customization that is severly lacking. It's fine for the remakes, but I fear for EO5.

Etrian Odyssey is pretty much a celebration and homage to oldschool dungeon crawlers, we've lost FM music and now party customization(at least there's still Classic Mode and they seemed to have learned their lesson with Untold 2). I really wonder what EO5 is going to do, I kinda hope it's only classic mode and then they remake it someday with an Untold version, as I hope the core experience is the focus.
Last edited by Mauricio_Magus; 11-10-2014 at 11:34 PM.
Kirlia
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(11-10-2014, 11:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mauricio_Magus

  • Story mode got Gunner/Highlander which weren't included in Classic Mode.
  • Extra floors for Story Mode.
  • Story Mode spoils the fucking story in the first minutes.
  • Grimoire System being luck based and grindy as fuck, screw it.
  • Only one save file when there's 2 modes.


Now in a pesonal level, I think most fans fear for the future of the series, the focus on story mode instead of classic gets us worried because an important part of the series is the customization that is severly lacking. It's fine for the remakes, but I fear for EO5.

If EO5 doesn't have character customization, I will not be pleased.

Oh, and a lot of people hate Floor Jump because it makes the game even easier/removes the point of Ariadne Threads/removes the point of exploring a dangerous labyrinth, although Floor Jump is only accessible for each floor when you've explored/mapped most of it.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
(11-10-2014, 11:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

If EO5 doesn't have character customization, I will not be pleased.

Oh, and a lot of people hate Floor Jump because it makes the game even easier/removes the point of Ariadne Threads/removes the point of exploring a dangerous labyrinth, although Floor Jump is only accessible for each floor when you've explored/mapped most of it.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Floor Jump, fuck that.

I don't think there's any way they would take the most important part of the series out, I think an interesting solution is to make a story mode in which every story character can be any class(make a portrait for the 5 characters in every class outfit) and let us do whatever we want with them. That is if they are only going with one mode and trying to please everyone.
NormalFish
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(11-10-2014, 11:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Man God

Most of it comes from people who really liked the subclassing in 3 and 4 and didn't want it gone in the remake. I myself think the game is better without it. To alleviate that they added in a system that allowed you to grab skills off of enemies in a very frustrating and random way...which a lot of people didn't appreciate. I always found Grimoires to be a nice little bonus and nothing to obsess over.

Okay. I'm glad my feelings on the matter aren't totally outlandish. You basically articulated my opinions on those changes. I can understand why people would push back, though given those changes. I just always see it related to the story implementation rather than explicitly those game mechanics which blows my mind.
However...

Originally Posted by Kirlia

That seems to be the big issue, but a lot of people seem to hate Grimoires as well (mostly that it's total luck as to when you get one, and if it's any good).

Originally Posted by Mauricio_Magus

  • Story mode got Gunner/Highlander which weren't included in Classic Mode.
  • Extra floors for Story Mode.
  • Story Mode spoils the fucking story in the first minutes.
  • Grimoire System being luck based and grindy as fuck, screw it.
  • Only one save file when there's 2 modes.

Now in a pesonal level, I think most fans fear for the future of the series, the focus on story mode instead of classic gets us worried because an important part of the series is the customization that is severly lacking. It's fine for the remakes, but I fear for EO5.

I can understand this. I guess I just don't feel nearly as strongly as many fans do. I also think it's unlikely that the story mode will come to dominate the series. DRPGs have always struck me as being a horrid format for telling a story, and I doubt the EO team will reach a different conclusion. Isn't EOU2 making the story mode 100% optional? Thought I had read that.
Man God
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(11-10-2014, 11:37 PM)
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They need to tone down the story in general. 3 and 4 just get bogged down with those awful talky bits in the middle of the action and the stories end up being so lame instead of awesome and creepy and barely there in 1 and 2.

Besides Story mode of Untold spoiling the big twist in about the first ten minutes I actually found it a big improvement over what they offered in 3 and 4 in regards to actually telling the story. They did a great job with most of the party characters when they've kind of been shitting the bed with story NPCs in 3 and 4.
Kirlia
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(11-10-2014, 11:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by NormalFish

I also think it's unlikely that the story mode will come to dominate the series. DRPGs have always struck me as being a horrid format for telling a story, and I doubt the EO team will reach a different conclusion. Isn't EOU2 making the story mode 100% optional? Thought I had read that.

I believe it is! Everything in Story Mode is apparently accessible in Classic Mode. All we need now is confirmation that the game is coming here. Even if it's presumed a sure thing, I still need an official announcement before I start celebrating.

Originally Posted by Man God

They need to tone down the story in general. 3 and 4 just get bogged down with those awful talky bits in the middle of the action and the stories end up being so lame instead of awesome and creepy and barely there in 1 and 2.

Besides Story mode of Untold spoiling the big twist in about the first ten minutes I actually found it a big improvement over what they offered in 3 and 4 in regards to actually telling the story. They did a great job with most of the party characters when they've kind of been shitting the bed with story NPCs in 3 and 4.

I didn't mind 4's story at all, and a lot of people seem to love 3's lore, so I'm curious to hear more of your opinion on that.

Also, the anger I have seen about Untold's story seems to also be directed at how the Forest Folk, along with why you have to fight them, are handled.
Last edited by Kirlia; 11-10-2014 at 11:42 PM.
tuffy
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(11-10-2014, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by NormalFish

So I haven't managed to get an answer that makes sense to me so I'm curious: Why do a lot of EO fans dislike Untold? Is it really just the presence of the story?

I didn't mind having a story as an optional mode. The aforementioned grimoire stones were nonintuitive. But what I really didn't care for were those stair warps; they made it too easy to bypass a lot of the risk/rewards that come with dungeon crawling. There's not as much pressure to keep pushing on to the next wall shortcut when it's so easy to start over again from the floor's staircase.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
(11-10-2014, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Man God

They need to tone down the story in general. 3 and 4 just get bogged down with those awful talky bits in the middle of the action and the stories end up being so lame instead of awesome and creepy and barely there in 1 and 2.

Besides Story mode of Untold spoiling the big twist in about the first ten minutes I actually found it a big improvement over what they offered in 3 and 4 in regards to actually telling the story. They did a great job with most of the party characters when they've kind of been shitting the bed with story NPCs in 3 and 4.

I enjoyed the story in 3 and 4, even if I did feel like there was too much exposition at times, which made it even more surprised when they announced Untold. There is ALREADY a story mode, which is just god damn Classic Mode.
Linkark07
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(11-10-2014, 11:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kirlia

Oh, and a lot of people hate Floor Jump because it makes the game even easier/removes the point of Ariadne Threads/removes the point of exploring a dangerous labyrinth, although Floor Jump is only accessible for each floor when you've explored/mapped most of it.

Forgot about that.

It was quite stupid. After you unlocked the stairs near the fountain of Floor 8 or 7, you don't even need a reason for leave the labyrinth unless turn some quests or sell stuff.
MikeDip
God bless all my old friends/And god bless me too, why pretend?
(11-10-2014, 11:41 PM)
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I love EO very much. Got 100% on every game so far. Fave easily being 1 (for the story) and 4 (For the mechanics)
Untold was also okay.
Kirlia
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(11-10-2014, 11:42 PM)
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I admire everyone who beat the original EO1 and EO2. ESPECIALLY 2. It looks hard as hell.

Originally Posted by Linkark07

Forgot about that.

It was quite stupid. After you unlocked the stairs near the fountain of Floor 8 or 7, you don't even need a reason for leave the labyrinth unless turn some quests or sell stuff.

I remember being puzzled by how much people hated Floor Jump when I had only played EOU1, but after playing EO4 and getting into EO3, I can understand now.
Last edited by Kirlia; 11-10-2014 at 11:45 PM.

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