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The Flame in the Flood has its best debut on Switch - "Smashed expectations"
- Thread starter Jonneh3003
- Start date
GhostTrick
Banned
So, saying release schedule on Switch is smaller than other platforms is trollish ?
Check on Metacritic for the latest reviewed games. Switch LTD is sitting at 76 games listed vs 95 games on PS4 for the last 90 days. Saying that a new platform is getting less releases isn't trollish. It's basically a fact.
Do I also really have to explain that Switch schedule is a lot slower than Steam release schedule ?
Skittzo0413
Member
Ah okay, thanks. I did a quick google search but somehow missed that.
Anyway yeah, there are better examples to illustrate my point.
MisterR
Member
So you agree with his point, but just think he shouldn't come into the thread and point it out?
Whilst this is obviously great news for the devs and the Switch, reading stories like this makes me sad in the sense that they make me realise so many indies that I love dearly, must barely be selling 
I know indies are niche titles, but I didn't think sales would be that low for them.
I hope Night in the Woods and Edith Finch come to the Switch because more people need to appreciate how great those games are.
I know indies are niche titles, but I didn't think sales would be that low for them.I hope Night in the Woods and Edith Finch come to the Switch because more people need to appreciate how great those games are.
TerryLee81
Member
So, how's the game?
Adding onto this (apologies to anyone if they've already mentioned this, just skipped to the end of the thread), sleep mode in docked is a strong positive, purely because of the onboard battery. I hate leaving power on in my home when I'm not there so I never leave my PS4 in sleep mode. With the switch I don't have to worry about that, and it's provided a whole new level of convenience I never thought I'd appreciate so much.
If there's a multiformat game out I'm 99% aiming for the Switch version, for this reason and portability.
SinCityAssassin
Member
I had heard about this game a week or two ago, but I had to save up for other things, I'm glad it's getting such success though.
lwilliams3
Member
In addition to what you said, you can start the system as a console, grab the system on the go, start playing it as a handheld, put it back in the dock, then resume playing as a console in less than a minute. The snappiness of the Switch and its OS is a big deal for making time to play games IMO.
Wow this game looks cool. Gotta check it out.
That would defeat the entire purpose of these games selling well.
They wouldn't sell as much if it got drowned out by 15 games releasing every day.
That would defeat the entire purpose of these games selling well.
They wouldn't sell as much if it got drowned out by 15 games releasing every day.
If you enjoy scavenge, survival, and exploration games then you'll enjoy Flame in the Flood.
Yes, we all know how the Switch works thanks. Weve seen the ads.
This game looks very intriguing and had been on my radar ever since seeing the trailer. I need to see a bit more gameplay b4 I purchase though. Any decent previews out yet?
Also, these "because-there's-nothing-else-to-play-on-Switch" games are becoming too many to keep track of. This fall is packed with Switch games - not titled 'Mario Odyssey' - that I'm expecting to buy, but damn it, I don't have a money tree in my backyard. Heck, I don't even have a backyard!
Also, these "because-there's-nothing-else-to-play-on-Switch" games are becoming too many to keep track of. This fall is packed with Switch games - not titled 'Mario Odyssey' - that I'm expecting to buy, but damn it, I don't have a money tree in my backyard. Heck, I don't even have a backyard!
eKongDiddy
Member
With all these game releases and a not-so-good eShop, I feel like the Switch will soon become like the AppStore. Overwhelmed with too many releases with no way to check out good or new stuff.
Me personally: Im starting to get overwhelmed with all these releases and dont like to build up a huge backlog.
Me personally: Im starting to get overwhelmed with all these releases and dont like to build up a huge backlog.
Vital Tundra
Member
Nintendo really needs to get their eshop put together.
Do we know why? It not being on the switch is literally the only thing keeping me from buying it. I tend to play like that in short bursts and preferably on portables so I just don't see myself playing it on my PS4.
76 releases vs 95 releases. 6 million vs 60 million userbase. Should I also point out the size of Steams userbase?
The fact remains indie games are overperforming on Switch to such a degree that simply saying its driven by lack of competition doesnt logically reconcile when you consider the size of the userbase and amount of games actually releasing. Thats not The Reason here, its arguably not even a driving factor anymore as were already knee deep in the indie goldrush. You need to look deeper.
RandomHopeInc
Member
Its also easier for a game to stand out when its not trying to shine through the swamp that is the Steam Marketplace.
Not at all what I'm saying.
KonradLaw
Member
Then almost all would sell terrible and devs would abandon the platform.
The Switch is a really well positioned device. While the Wii saw a lot of hardware and a solid but sub-Nintendo die ratio due to a lack of the video game enthusiast market taking it seriously the Switch is finding success in almost the exact opposite way.
Sony found a way to squeeze some market viability out of the Vita well beyond it's anticipated life as the small userbase was full of highly engaged customers who were interested in a broad spectrum of games. From all accounts I've heard it ran at an anomalously high software attach rate which, while obviously not nearly enough to save it, made it viable far longer than a system with so few units ever should have been (see the Wii U for that example).
The Switch effectively serves that same high engagement level customer base simultaneously with the longest running high tie ratio driver, Nintendo first party software. It's a match made in heaven and Switch software sales are proving it out. When has there ever been a game, even at launch, that sold at a 1:1 tie ratio? BotW sold at better than that on Switch (i.e. people bought BotW for when they'd eventually own a Switch at a higher ratio than people buying a Switch and not buying BotW to play on it).
This momentum will likely require work to sustain. Nintendo is going to need to adopt at least a 3rd party sales and marketing system not dissimilar from what Sony did on Vita and MS did with XBLA. Don't be afraid of sales, market those sales, present the "value" proposition.
Non-proprietary memory coupled with it's hybrid form factor and the assurance of first party software has the Switch positioned to be insanely profitable at 50-60M units sold, which I'd argue is the lifetime floor unless Nintendo completely drops the ball in the next year or two. If they get anywhere close to 100M in a 7 year primary product window it might become the single most profitable system in Nintendo's history.
I'm still rather skeptical until I see Nintendo back it up with some real world proof.
Nintendo has a long history of being the most stringent first party with development tools and is clearly still curating the Switch library far more than any other first party/game distribution service.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing mind you. Nintendo has come a long ways from even the Wii U/3DS era which itself was a big improvement from their entire history before, but all their actions indicate that they still bottleneck smaller developers through more of a vetting process than any one else. Maybe there is some need for that. Steam is a mess without it, XBL and PSN have a good amount of trash to wade through as well (especially the non-game avatar/wallpaper/etc. knickknackery bullshit). But I wouldn't expect even every demonstrably quality indie project to make it through their filter, and even more won't do so in a timely fashion compared to other platforms. That's the price of curation.
1. From most reports I've read EA is contractually obligated to put FIFA on pretty much any platform that meets a pretty low viability threshold as part of FIFA's branding desires.
2. I'd bet that the audience for FIFA and he audience for the Switch is composed of has less intersection than basically any other major games platform.
Sony found a way to squeeze some market viability out of the Vita well beyond it's anticipated life as the small userbase was full of highly engaged customers who were interested in a broad spectrum of games. From all accounts I've heard it ran at an anomalously high software attach rate which, while obviously not nearly enough to save it, made it viable far longer than a system with so few units ever should have been (see the Wii U for that example).
The Switch effectively serves that same high engagement level customer base simultaneously with the longest running high tie ratio driver, Nintendo first party software. It's a match made in heaven and Switch software sales are proving it out. When has there ever been a game, even at launch, that sold at a 1:1 tie ratio? BotW sold at better than that on Switch (i.e. people bought BotW for when they'd eventually own a Switch at a higher ratio than people buying a Switch and not buying BotW to play on it).
This momentum will likely require work to sustain. Nintendo is going to need to adopt at least a 3rd party sales and marketing system not dissimilar from what Sony did on Vita and MS did with XBLA. Don't be afraid of sales, market those sales, present the "value" proposition.
Non-proprietary memory coupled with it's hybrid form factor and the assurance of first party software has the Switch positioned to be insanely profitable at 50-60M units sold, which I'd argue is the lifetime floor unless Nintendo completely drops the ball in the next year or two. If they get anywhere close to 100M in a 7 year primary product window it might become the single most profitable system in Nintendo's history.
I'm still rather skeptical until I see Nintendo back it up with some real world proof.
Nintendo has a long history of being the most stringent first party with development tools and is clearly still curating the Switch library far more than any other first party/game distribution service.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing mind you. Nintendo has come a long ways from even the Wii U/3DS era which itself was a big improvement from their entire history before, but all their actions indicate that they still bottleneck smaller developers through more of a vetting process than any one else. Maybe there is some need for that. Steam is a mess without it, XBL and PSN have a good amount of trash to wade through as well (especially the non-game avatar/wallpaper/etc. knickknackery bullshit). But I wouldn't expect even every demonstrably quality indie project to make it through their filter, and even more won't do so in a timely fashion compared to other platforms. That's the price of curation.
1. From most reports I've read EA is contractually obligated to put FIFA on pretty much any platform that meets a pretty low viability threshold as part of FIFA's branding desires.
2. I'd bet that the audience for FIFA and he audience for the Switch is composed of has less intersection than basically any other major games platform.
Skittzo0413
Member
Like what has happened on Steam...?
This comment makes no sense, many platforms get tons of indies which don't sell well, that doesn't mean they stop getting games...
As a port, it's solid but not spectacular (only played it on portable mode so far). Visuals are fairly close to PC version but not as sharp and definitely not as smooth. For the most part, frame-rate appears to be 30+ in most sections, but dips below that in certain high traffic sections of the river. The controls are solid with no input delay but I don't think there's any rumble at all which is weird. I loved the PC version and I love being able to play it on the go. It's definitely worth the buy at $15, but the port could use a bit more polish. Definitely a better port than Overcooked.
Skittzo0413
Member
The tie ratio was over 9... that's about as good as any platform has ever had.
I mean, we have definitive proof that the "no straight ports" policy is either gone or never existed in that... there are straight ports on the platform. And the curation argument goes out the window when you see a game like Vroom in the Night Sky.
KonradLaw
Member
Steam has a lot bigger userbase and it's been slowly ramping up the number of games released each year, while that userbase grew.
It's simple mathetmatics. There countless indie games released every year on PC, consoles and mobile. Switch's userbase is miniscule for now. It wouldn't be able to survive a complete flood of titles. We're talking like 10K games a year or more. 99,9% wouldn't make money back. Not to mention all the success stories so far have been extremely console-friendly titles. It's not likely that lot of typically PC exclusive indies would do well on that platform.
As Switch userbase will grow so will the number or releases. But suggesting that everyone should just release their games now on such small platform is completely insane idea.
Gotdatmoney
Member
The Wii didnt sell software fallacy will never die it seems.
Skittzo0413
Member
Oh, you're saying releasing like 50,000 games right this second would be insane, of course I agree with that. I thought the poster you responded to was basically saying that all multiplatform indie games coming in the future should also come to Switch. Which I think is far less insane because the install base will grow over time as new games arrive.
But yeah, having a sudden influx of tens of thousands of games while the userbase is still around 8 million is absurd, no disagreement there.
The biggest problem is that people seem to ignore it when they're corrected and continue to spout it elsewhere. The fact that it's such easily accessible information also makes the fallacy annoying.
HyperZone<3
Member
I'm sure its been mentioned before, but the Switch had a small library of games. The Flame and the Flood was one of eleven games to hit the eShop that week for the Switch, last week had ten, the previous seventeen. Can it be said that the system is still starving for games when you're well over forty games being released on the platform in a month?
It's a meme, so if you see someone saying it seriously, you laugh at them.
Wow, those are the in-game graphics? What's this game about? How does it play?It's a pretty cool game. Glad to see it finding success on Switch.
Also, uh, how's the icon?
It had a great peak in it's early years on the motion control hook, but had no legs. You think it had an optimal for Nintendo tie ratio when Skyward Sword sold about 3/4ths of Twilight princess despite being on the >100M sold platform?
I'm not talking about a no straight ports policy, I'm talking about Nintendo simply providing enough kits, enough development support, and responsive certification to get games they haven't decided to put center stage with "Nindies" still out on the platform.
I'm sure they're better than they were at launch, but until the established indie developers are consistently hitting the system (as there isn't really any other good reason not to) I think it's reasonable to have skepticism as to how invested in supporting those developers Nintendo really is.
Also, curation isn't a guarantee of quality, it's bottle-necking in an attempt to pick quality, but often gets led astray by a variety of other factors. That's the entire problem people have with it, it often ends up locking out better software than what gets released because the people making the better software just didn't happen to have the same networking connections or contact the curator in just the right window/fashion.
I keep thinking it over every time the word "starved" comes out and I'm starting to think that people might just be solely referring to there being not enough AAA games to overshadow them at this point. Or at least it's the only thing I can guess giving any benefit of the doubt.
The word "starved" seems to have the connotation that there isn't actually any kind of competition and that the games selling are mediocre or bad titles that only sell by virtue of there being absolutely and literally nothing else available, but the Eshop is coated in titles that I never see discussed and it's pretty clear that the cream is rising to the top as far as what's selling. If people didn't want the games they simply wouldn't buy them. The Switch makes games look great and major companies are leaving some extra cash in people's pockets not capitalizing on bringing games to a system that's enticing to use, but indies have to actually earn it amidst a sea of their own brethren past that.
Most of the big games I'm seeing -Stardew Valley, Golf Story, Axiom Verge- they're selling from word of mouth. A LOT of word of mouth. It's not just their existing, Switch owners are good at letting each other know what the best picks are in the shop. Looking up The Flame in The Flood on r/NintendoSwitch there were several topics on it over the past week, posting trailers, discussing release dates, all with at least a perceptible amount of interest. People pick this stuff up to a degree because other people tip them off on it.
UncleSporky
Member
No, it ended with that tie ratio, which is really very solid among all game consoles. It's not like it started high and gradually declined. What does Zelda even have to do with it? Do you actually know what a tie ratio is?
Played about three hours, docked and undocked, and it runs flawlessly from what I can tell.
The only issue I have so far is the text undocked is pretty small. I wish it did the Stardew thing and adjusted the UI depending on what mode you're in.
Renna Hazel
Member
It's really strange how this even came about. Wii software dominated NPD for years. Wii Sports wasn't even included in those reports.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I don't think the curation argument goes out the window because of this game. The developer, Poisoft, created Kersploosh! for Nintendo on 3DS. An exception was likely made due to the close ties between the two companies.
That being said, this really is all speculation. All that we really know for certain is that Nintendo prioritized dev kits early on.
CharminUltra
Member
Wii really was a sight to behold. Those threads were great.
Skittzo0413
Member
I think that says more about Skyward Sword's mass appeal than it does about the Wii's software tie ratio. I mean, it may be possible that they sold less software in the later years than the early years, I don't have that data in front of me. But speaking purely of the tie ratio, it was very high. Especially for Nintendo games, if that's what you're arguing.
I mean, I think we're currently at 38 million copies of Mario Kart Wii sold.
I wasn't sure if you were referring to the no-straight-port policy so that's why I worded it like that. I do definitely agree that they were being selective about which companies they'd talk to, but I guess in my mind I don't really consider that "curation", and I may be wrong there.
Yeah "out the window" might be a bit much, true. And again, I don't think of things like lack of dev kits and prioritizing some developers while resources are scarce to really be "curation", but I might be wrong in that. I would think "curation" refers to actively selecting games that are presented for the platform and choosing some while denying others.
And I seriously doubt Vroom in the Night Sky successfully went through such a process.
Gamegeneral
Member
I love the soundtrack to this game and it definitely has a home on the switch as most games with roguelike elements do.
GhostTrick
Banned
76 releases LTD vs 95 releases for the last 90 days.
Yes, you can point userbase. This isn't my point. My point is that there's a lot more releases on PS4/PC (which you claim is wrong or saying it's trollish) on a weekly/monthly basis compared to Switch. More releases means more competition.
If you think you're in the indie goldrush right now, you might want to think more.
OrbitalBeard
Member
No, it almost certainly did not lol. A least I hope not!
I do think the western branches of Nintendo (NoA in particular) likely curated a selection of indies early on though and had a large hand on when each game would launch. The pacing of eShop releases during the launch window felt very deliberate. I honestly don't have all that much to back this up though, so I'll just call it speculation. My guess is those branches had little say in something like Vroom in the Night Sky making its way to the eShop at launch. Seems like an NCL decision to me, alongside the Hamster Neo Geo Arcade Archives titles.
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