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Remedy : Next-Gen consoles are a quantum leap

Then that's your issue. Honestly, you're not getting what you saw in that UE4 tech-demo at E3 in either PS4 or Xbox3. That was done on a GTX680. Scaled down version? Sure, why not?
If you really want to see extraordinary graphics using UE4 to its potential, get yourself a PC and hope that Epic pays attention to it. Otherwise, stick to PS4/Xbox3, which won't look terrible, just down-scaled.

But we don't know the PS4/720 specs. And consoles have the advantage of closed hardware

Regarding your question about <1 TFLOP: Who knows? We don't know the specs of the GPU in Wii U (though it hints to be 500-650 GFLOPs). Your guess is as good as mine. If you're looking for particles, then it probably can be done on there, considering that Epic said that the interactive particles can be done without any sort of performance hit.

It'll be a scaled down version of whatever you'll see on PS4/XBox3. That's all we know.

Particles is not the problem, even PS360 can do a lot of particles.
 

Ryoku

Member
I'm kinda afraid Sony might pull a Killzone 2 "real time"at E3 2013 for the PS4.

They're going to demonstrate the games running on high-end PCs this time around. Why? Because most people won't see the difference. They'll see the game on PC at E3 conference, they'll be wowed by the graphics, they buy the game for PS4, and they'll say, "Just what I expected. I think it looks even better, actually!"
 

jaypah

Member
So... did anyone honestly expect Nintendo to just make a super powerful console with a normal controller? That would be stupid. The Gamecube generation wasn't exactly Nintendo's finest hour, and I sincerely doubt they'd ever take that approach again. And if they did, it would be awful. Instead of 2 consoles with 90% of the same games and a thin sliver of exclusives, there'd be three.

It's bad enough Nintendo is going with dual analogue sticks on their controller to accommodate ports. Dual analogue is a horribly archaic controller design and by the looks of it, it won't be changed anytime soon.

I'm just looking forward to being able to buy a new PC that'll easily surpass the "next gen" systems before they even come out.

Well this was random. I plan on day-one'ing WiiU, PS4 and 720. After that I'll upgrade my PC to complete beast status. Not sure what this has to do with this thread though?

Edit: unless it was a "don't shit on WiiU" post, then I guess I understand. Especially the part about the PC,lol
 

Meelow

Banned
They won't. Sony don't even allow PC versions of games to be shown in their conferences after the backlash from their bullshitting.

This time though I won't believe what they say about power, Sony has lied too many times for me to believe them about power, I'll wait until the specs are shown.
 

Ryoku

Member
But we don't know the PS4/720 specs. And consoles have the advantage of closed hardware

I see this thrown around, and yes, it is an advantage, but you're not tapping performance magically out of nowhere. Let's put it like this. To make things simple, I'll use FLOPs (lol) as a performance guage. Let's say PS4/720 have a 1TFLOP GPU (again, for simplicity), while the PC we are comparing them with also has a 1TFLOP GPU. On the PS4/720, you're probably tapping out 90% of that 1TFLOP GPU. On the PC, you're probably tapping out 60%-70% of that GPU. Get it? The PS4/720 aren't going to be working at 2TFLOPs just because it's a closed system. There is still a limit. I don't mean to downplay the situation, but facts seem pretty scarce in this thread.

It's been heavily rumored that PS4/720 are going to be 1.8/1.1-1.5 TFLOP GPUs respectively, both from AMD. Unless you also want to discredit hardware rumors about Wii U as well, then I suggest you take those rumors as equally as you take the Wii U rumors.
 

StuBurns

Banned
It's been heavily rumored that PS4/720 are going to be 1.8/1.1-1.5 TFLOP GPUs respectively, both from AMD.
I thought Durango was better?

These rumours ping pong back and forth way too much, as much as it would be a shit storm, a central thread about the specs of the two would be nice.
 

Ryoku

Member
I thought Durango was better?

These rumours ping pong back and forth way too much, as much as it would be a shit storm, a central thread about the specs of the two would be nice.

Durango is rumored to have significantly more RAM than PS4, along with a better CPU, while the PS4 is rumored to have the better GPU.
 

Meelow

Banned
New implies unknown to the developers which clearly isn´t the case here.




Not if you´re expecting "exotic new hardware" that is showing it´s true power years after it´s release.

The PS1, PS2, and Xbox 360 where easy to develop for, does that still mean they aren't new hardware?.
 

jaypah

Member
I see this thrown around, and yes, it is an advantage, but you're not tapping performance magically out of nowhere. Let's put it like this. To make things simple, I'll use FLOPs (lol) as a performance guage. Let's say PS4/720 have a 1TFLOP GPU (again, for simplicity), while the PC we are comparing them with also has a 1TFLOP GPU. On the PS4/720, you're probably tapping out 90% of that 1TFLOP GPU. On the PC, you're probably tapping out 60%-70% of that GPU. Get it? The PS4/720 aren't going to be working at 2TFLOPs just because it's a closed system. There is still a limit. I don't mean to downplay the situation, but facts seem pretty scarce in this thread.

It's been heavily rumored that PS4/720 are going to be 1.8/1.1-1.5 TFLOP GPUs respectively, both from AMD. Unless you also want to discredit hardware rumors about Wii U as well, then I suggest you take those rumors as equally as you take the Wii U rumors.

coming from 360, PS3 and a 5770 this sounds awesome!
 
I see this thrown around, and yes, it is an advantage, but you're not tapping performance magically out of nowhere. Let's put it like this. To make things simple, I'll use FLOPs (lol) as a performance guage. Let's say PS4/720 have a 1TFLOP GPU (again, for simplicity), while the PC we are comparing them with also has a 1TFLOP GPU. On the PS4/720, you're probably tapping out 90% of that 1TFLOP GPU. On the PC, you're probably tapping out 60%-70% of that GPU. Get it? The PS4/720 aren't going to be working at 2TFLOPs just because it's a closed system. There is still a limit. I don't mean to downplay the situation, but facts seem pretty scarce in this thread.

I know that we can't get 2 TFlops from 1 TFlop hardware, but you can adjust things.

It's been heavily rumored that PS4/720 are going to be 1.8/1.1-1.5 TFLOP GPUs respectively, both from AMD. Unless you also want to discredit hardware rumors about Wii U as well, then I suggest you take those rumors as equally as you take the Wii U rumors.

Well, I prefer hardware with 1.5 TFlops than 0.5 TFlops. 1.5 is nearest 2.0 than 0.5.
 

BlackJace

Member
New implies unknown to the developers which clearly isn´t the case here.

Based on what, though? It would behoove companies to build an architecture that is friendly and easy for devs. Cell was a new architecture that was "unknown" to devs, which actually turned out to be detrimental. So, I don't think that's a good comparison.

Not if you´re expecting "exotic new hardware" that is showing it´s true power years after it´s release.

But that's a double standard, then. An echochamber statement about the 720/PS4 is that they will be really expensive to develop for. That statement is then quickly countered with "no, the hardware and tech used will actually drives costs way down". Something like that.
So regardless of "exotic new hardware", cheap dev costs means nothing in terms of whether really "new" or not.
 

Ryoku

Member
New implies unknown to the developers which clearly isn´t the case here.

What the fuck? Since when did unknown=new? New isn't necessarily unknown. New can also mean easier to deal with. Did you even pay attention to PS360? 360 = new, but easy to deal with. PS3 = new, but development hell. Look at the PC hardware. New doesn't mean unknown for the most part. It usually means more efficiency and power on PC.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Nothing is going to be cheap. The WiiU might be comparatively cheap to program on, but building a 'triple-A' game, with mo-cap, good voice acting, top quality assets, etc, is still going to cost upwards of twenty million dollars.
 

Ryoku

Member
I know that we can't get 2 TFlops from 1 TFlop hardware, but you can adjust things.



Well, I prefer hardware with 1.5 TFlops than 0.5 TFlops. 1.5 is nearest 2.0 than 0.5.

Again, yes, you can "adjust things". You can also "adjust things" on PC, but 1TFLOP is still the absolute limit. You're not getting anything more than it.

To your second point, that's fine and all, but it's only your opinion. I will point out, however, that your reasoning is completely flawed, but I won't get into that subject.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Fun factoid: if you know how to make the PS2 sing, extracting performance from the PS3 architecture is trivial.

SPEs are just infinitely more useful extensions of the VU model.
Then why is MGS3 the best looking thing on PS2, and MGS4 was dogged with horrible loading, crazy installs and bad image quality?
 
Oh wow what is going on in this thread

People arguing there wasn't much difference between N64 and DC?
People arguing 360/PS3 launch titles didn't show much improvement over last-gen?
People still believing the WiiU will be on the PS4/720's level?
I think I even read something about the Wii U's unknown, untapped power...haha


oh and btw 3D games on the saturn were extremely ugly.
Whoa...

Now I need to read this thread.
 

AOC83

Banned
What the fuck? Since when did unknown=new? New isn't necessarily unknown.

In this case the people were calling the WiiU new hardware in the sense that the developers aren´t familiar with it and need time to adapt like they did with the 360/PS3 over the years.

And this is exactly what i answered to.
 
In this case the people were calling the WiiU new hardware in the sense that the developers aren´t familiar with it and need time to adapt like they did with the 360/PS3 over the years.

And this is exactly what i answered to.

Anybody arguing that doesn't know what they are talking about.

It is perfectly acceptable to argue (depending on architectural changes in WiiU) that 360/PS3 code might take some work to run on the system. It has a dedicated sound processor, and supposedly a low clocked CPU. The expectation being that the CPU has no grunt. With tasks being assigned to separate processors to offload the hit.

I'd never argue that the internals are "new". Designed in a way that demands specific changes from PS3/360 code? Yep.

And Christ Meelow. I've been warning you guys for days that you were risking your asses by not understanding the basics while still arguing fervently. When you guys get back will you finally listen to me?
 
Again, yes, you can "adjust things". You can also "adjust things" on PC, but 1TFLOP is still the absolute limit. You're not getting anything more than it.

No, you can't get 2tflop from 1tflop, but I doubt Xbox 720/PS4 will have 1tflop.

To your second point, that's fine and all, but it's only your opinion. I will point out, however, that your reasoning is completely flawed, but I won't get into that subject.

I want future support, if games need 1+ Tflops, and Wii U have 0.5 Tflops, then it will have the worst ports, and you cannot get 1+ Tflops from 0.5 Tflops.
 

Triple U

Banned
Then why is MGS3 the best looking thing on PS2, and MGS4 was dogged with horrible loading, crazy installs and bad image quality?
IQ is by large a memory bound process. The guy you quoted is talking about processor performance. The other things you note are BDRom speed issues...

Let's no forget that MSG3 was very late in the PS2s cycle whilst MGS4 was their first game and pretty early. MGS4 is still held pretty high visually either way...
 

Reiko

Banned
IQ is by large a memory bound process. The guy you quoted is talking about processor performance. The other things you note are BDRom speed issues...

Let's no forget that MSG3 was very late in the PS2s cycle whilst MGS4 was their first game and pretty early. MGS4 is still held pretty high visually either way...

Wasn't MGS4 a modified engine of MGS3?

Playing the HD Collection and then MGS4... You start to notice the graphics engine similarities.
 

1-UP

Banned
So... did anyone honestly expect Nintendo to just make a super powerful console with a normal controller? That would be stupid. The Gamecube generation wasn't exactly Nintendo's finest hour, and I sincerely doubt they'd ever take that approach again. And if they did, it would be awful. Instead of 2 consoles with 90% of the same games and a thin sliver of exclusives, there'd be three.

It's bad enough Nintendo is going with dual analogue sticks on their controller to accommodate ports. Dual analogue is a horribly archaic controller design and by the looks of it, it won't be changed anytime soon.

I'm just looking forward to being able to buy a new PC that'll easily surpass the "next gen" systems before they even come out.

"Thanks" for your random input...
 
For the first time in a long time I have a game worthy PC and by fortune it is hooked up to a passive 3D tv 27", and after some fuss I managed to get it to play Trine 2 in Full HD 3D ... Thatgets so insanely beautiful at times, that if next-gen will be anything like this ... Wow!
 

Majmun

Member
For the first time in a long time I have a game worthy PC and by fortune it is hooked up to a passive 3D tv 27", and after some fuss I managed to get it to play Trine 2 in Full HD 3D ... Thatgets so insanely beautiful at times, that if next-gen will be anything like this ... Wow!

Wait until you get a bigger TV... :p

Maastricht city rocks by the way :D
 
Wait until you get a bigger TV... :p

Maastricht city rocks by the way :D

Well with a passive tv which basically halves the resolution, that would start to stand out a bit more on a big screen I think. And anyway, you'd just be sitting further away from it probably. ;)
 

Majanew

Banned
I'm just looking forward to being able to buy a new PC that'll easily surpass the "next gen" systems before they even come out.

That's nice and all, but you'll have to wait for the next-gen systems to release so your next-gen beating PC can get some next-gen ports.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
No reason why a new console can't do 1080p versions of current gen ports, unless it doesn't have the grunt.

Says who? Again, its fucking launch.
I'm not going to be holding my breath for 1080p Wii U multiplatform games. If Nintendo themselves can't do it with exclusives then why should we expect 3rd parties to do so with ports?

I think the writing is on the wall, for those willing to accept the truth. It's time to move on.
 
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