Personally, i didn't think the exact time you found it out mattered all that much as long as it stayed in [C], since you already got a big idea about what is happening at that point.
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NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
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Personally, i didn't think the exact time you found it out mattered all that much as long as it stayed in [C], since you already got a big idea about what is happening at that point.
Even on PC? I don't think there was any patch at all on PC yet.
It was weird as hell that 9S completely ignored that part, though. Like, at the time I just interpreted as him being more concerned with the rest and not giving a fuck anymore, but it's clearly not the case, given his reaction when he actually finds out.
Possible n64 era throwback challenger to yooka laylee?
Also C is probably a better ending then E
Awful Falafel
Banned
PRjumpman124
Member
So... do we know what Yorha stands for?
Finally completed the game today, 60 hours clocked (maxed out all weapons for the special Emil boss fight in the desert).
Amazing story. Amazing gameplay. Amazing characters. Stunning soundtrack.
Currently feel like it could be one of my favourites games of all time, but I will come back to that once the honeymoon phase is over. My lord though, I had a blast and I am really sad that it's all over.
Amazing story. Amazing gameplay. Amazing characters. Stunning soundtrack.
Currently feel like it could be one of my favourites games of all time, but I will come back to that once the honeymoon phase is over. My lord though, I had a blast and I am really sad that it's all over.
If the Bunker was destroyed, why would the infected Operators be on the "Ark"? Operators don't go in the field, and there was no signs any of them escaped since the Commander self destruct the Bunker.
I don't understand the Ark. It was created..when and by who? The machines?
It was hiding under ground this whole time, or built by Adam?
Was the "Copied City" area part of the Ark?
It was aimed at the moon, but when the machines realized that it was all a lie, they decided to turn it into an Ark?
It had the capability of creating Androids? Why were there so many models of 2B?
A backdoor was installed on the YorHa servers on purpose, because they knew that the machines will hack it? Why did they choose THAT specific time to open the backdoor? Was it because Adam and Eve was destroyed and they thought it was a great time to "open" the backdoor? Going by when Adam and Eve was revealed, they couldn't have anticipated Adam and Eve existing or their destruction. And it looks like it was hacked specifically by the AI twins, were they the only ones capable of hacking the Bunker? If so, did the original creators of Project YorHa anticipate the evolution of machines and knew that "one day" a machine could hack the Bunker?
The "infection"..was it created by YorHa? Where did it come from? Is the purpose of it designed from the beginning since YorHa was designed to end? If not, what was the "original" plan for YorHa to end?
The bots at the end mentioned their duties was to see the completion of Project YorHa (meaning to see that it comes to an end). How did they decide that this was the end if they didn't know about Adam and Eve?
The machines made Adam and Eve? Why? WTF are they made of? The story makes it seem like they've been around a while, so why did Adam get "birthed" in the desert? And why did another Adam/Eve come out of him when I killed him?
The original "Forest King" was the first machine to have sentience? And his body parts gave all other machines sentience? Didn't look like a big enough robot to have enough parts to give away?
2E was designed as 9S's "executioner"? Seems like a defective mode.. why not just discontinue the 9S model? And since her primary role was to basically kill him when he got too close to the truth, why wasn't 2E with 9S from the beginning? Why were they split up (her in the air, him..on the ground-ish)? All the other combat models were destroyed at the beginning, did they *know* 2E would survive and rendezvous with 9S?
I don't understand the Ark. It was created..when and by who? The machines?
It was hiding under ground this whole time, or built by Adam?
Was the "Copied City" area part of the Ark?
It was aimed at the moon, but when the machines realized that it was all a lie, they decided to turn it into an Ark?
It had the capability of creating Androids? Why were there so many models of 2B?
A backdoor was installed on the YorHa servers on purpose, because they knew that the machines will hack it? Why did they choose THAT specific time to open the backdoor? Was it because Adam and Eve was destroyed and they thought it was a great time to "open" the backdoor? Going by when Adam and Eve was revealed, they couldn't have anticipated Adam and Eve existing or their destruction. And it looks like it was hacked specifically by the AI twins, were they the only ones capable of hacking the Bunker? If so, did the original creators of Project YorHa anticipate the evolution of machines and knew that "one day" a machine could hack the Bunker?
The "infection"..was it created by YorHa? Where did it come from? Is the purpose of it designed from the beginning since YorHa was designed to end? If not, what was the "original" plan for YorHa to end?
The bots at the end mentioned their duties was to see the completion of Project YorHa (meaning to see that it comes to an end). How did they decide that this was the end if they didn't know about Adam and Eve?
The machines made Adam and Eve? Why? WTF are they made of? The story makes it seem like they've been around a while, so why did Adam get "birthed" in the desert? And why did another Adam/Eve come out of him when I killed him?
The original "Forest King" was the first machine to have sentience? And his body parts gave all other machines sentience? Didn't look like a big enough robot to have enough parts to give away?
2E was designed as 9S's "executioner"? Seems like a defective mode.. why not just discontinue the 9S model? And since her primary role was to basically kill him when he got too close to the truth, why wasn't 2E with 9S from the beginning? Why were they split up (her in the air, him..on the ground-ish)? All the other combat models were destroyed at the beginning, did they *know* 2E would survive and rendezvous with 9S?
No idea, but Massive Duck, C.M. had a decent guess earlier in the thread:
Yonah (Class 1 Patient)
Replicant (their structural data was sent to the moon, which was fundamental for the lie that humanity fled there)
Hamelin (the organization responsible for fighting Legion, which later incorporated Project Gestalt)
Are you talking about C1O who 9S fights? She had motherly feelings for 9S. She had her designation changed from O to B so she could be out on the field and watch over him. Didn't work out so well
The backdoor activated because the win against Adam and Eve was a huge blow to the machines, it opened up to ensure that Yorha wouldn't win.
No the virus was created by the machines.
It's a catch 22 with 9S. They *need* good support models that can hack the machines to fight the war. Unfortunately any model good enough to do that will always be smart enough to learn the truth. They can't scrap the model because they need it to fight, so their solution is to put them down whenever they get too close to the truth or when it's just convenient. They were split up because each had different jobs, not to mention 9S was already a blank slate at this point and wasn't a threat to uncovering the truth yet. The rest of the game they're mostly together.
Much appreciated!
CesspoolofHatred
Member
did they do anything with Jackass in the Amnesia quest?
Cause I remember that also being kinda screwy continuity-wise
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
There weren't any operators? If you're talking about 21O the battle confirmed that she redesignated herself as a combat unit when YorHa was going in for the kill after adam and Eve
The tower was initially created as a giant ground-to-space cannon aimed at the human server on the moon, but as shown in ending d, the machine consciousness, having discovered the futility of the never ending war through their evolutions, decided repurpose the cannon and created an ark to allow the machine lifeforms to have a new life in a different world.
The copied city is a different thing but i think it's meant to show that the machines are able to create complex structures using that white material.
I think either they took the copies to yorha already had (remember that everytime you died you're supposedly getting a new body), or yes, they are capable of creating Android like machines as shown by adam and Eve. And also in the end, they are all the same really.
The backdoor was created to open precisely when yorha has the overwhelming advantage over the machines. Could be when adam and Eve happened, and it could have also opened it when yorha was confident enough to go all out war mode when most of the time they've just been doing skirmishes. I assume that the machines knew about it for a long time and was just waiting patiently for it to open. The ai twins are just the manifestations of the machine consciousness.
The infection was already around. If you read on the origins of a2 in the game it shows that she had to deal with killing android infected with it.
I think it's less a weaponised infection and more that the machine consciousness literally hacks into the androids.
They knew this was the end because they are overseeing the last yorha androids that are still operational and they all died.
The whole coming out of adam thing I'm kinda iffy on really, but the pair was just a manifestation of the machine's interest in studying humanity. Also as a way to show that androids and machines are no different, given what we learnt about the black box.
Dunno about the body parts thing (i think that's just the first kingdom's machines trying to create some mythology around their king) but the machine consciousness did deliberately break various parts of its consciousness so that it can study different evolutionary routes by studying individuals like pascal and the first king.
They didn't discontinue the 9s model is because he's really good at his job, but as said, he is too good at his job. So they get new information for every memory wipe cycle but have to make sure someone is there to memory wipe him. I think she wasn't there at the start because they don't have to worry about him at the start but yeah, i think that's just them meeting up, but he's off scanning a dangerous area. Guess it's a 2 stone 1 bird thing. They can scan and clear a dangerous area and get them to meet up at the same time.
Awful Falafel
Banned
Honestly I always thought it was dumb that they didn't just have a way to remotely wipe or self-destruct 9S on demand.
How? Androids aren't networked like machines.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Seeing that he can hack an infection off himself and other androids as well, hack the capability to use weapons in the first place, and even hack 2b's capability to attack other yorha units, maybe he's just too damn good to be able to leave something like that without his notice.
Yoko Taro would totally make this canon.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Actually.
Playing through A again with all the context you've learnt in mind nearly transforms Route A.
I disagree. Knowing what we know now concerning 2B's true identity, I can see it being quite interesting to piece together all the hints and subtle mannerisms one may have missed the first time around. I love stuff like that.
If I replay it anytime soon, I'll play on Hard, maybe try out the Japanese voices, and do all the sidequests. I gotta start all over anyways since my save is deleted, not to mention I wanna try out that DLC.
Eh, I think the replay value is extremely high just for the added context. I beat the game in 60 hours on PS4, bought the game on PC when it came out, and ended up playing even LONGER the second time at 81 hours.
texasairhead101
Member
So, what was 9S shown in the tower by the twins?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
The final plans of project YorHa which shows that the final stages involve the destruction of everything YorHa, making them all sacrificial lambs in order to hide the fact that humans no longer exist.
slade
Member
Did Eve get the Black Scrawl towards the end? I thought that had to do with Replicants and Gestalts while Adam and Eve were Androids? Anyway, good game and makes me wish Platinum or SE remake the previous Yoko Taro games set in this world. I don't wanna go on the hunt for old PS3 copies of Nier and Drakengard games.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
It's been awhile: how much do we know about the Black Scrawl other than that it being a result of Gestalts relapsing? Like, why does that cause TBS to appear in the respective Replicant?
Astrael
Member
I'm not sure about this, but wouldn't it be possible that Adam and Eve got their forms from copying Replicant data? I guess it depends at what point the machines had hacked the moon server (was it before or after their birth? This data was in the Ark library already). If the machines had already downloaded the Replicant information from the moon then these two are most likely Replicants rather than androids, then it makes sense they'd get the Black Scrawl since there's obviously no Gestalt.
If not then no idea, it could just tie into the recurring theme of all these machines mimicking what they think is human. Records would have described the black scrawl so they probably copied that, too.
Thank you for your help, kind whippy.
Jeeves
Member
Two things that have been bothering me since I finished this, if anyone can answer them for me.
At the end of C if you play as 9S, he speaks with Adam, who asks if 9S will go with them on the ark. When I played, I replied that I would stay. What happens if you express interest in going with them?
Why did Pascal's village go cannibal? I understand that other machines began to go nuts after Adam and Eve died since they were hosting their network, but I didn't think the residents of the village were tied to any network.
At the end of C if you play as 9S, he speaks with Adam, who asks if 9S will go with them on the ark. When I played, I replied that I would stay. What happens if you express interest in going with them?
Why did Pascal's village go cannibal? I understand that other machines began to go nuts after Adam and Eve died since they were hosting their network, but I didn't think the residents of the village were tied to any network.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
You just go with them.
Which isn't as good as choosing to stay honestly.
My theory is that pascal's village think they got disconnected but the machine consciousness are still monitoring them so they're probably connected unwittingly. Or it really doesn't matter if they're connected or not to infect them.
As for why the machine consciousness are basically crazy social darwinists using pascal as an experiment so I think they're just trying to push him? They did manage to break him out of being a pacifist after all. I found the complete wipe of his village once he crossed the line as symbolic of the death of his ideals and what he worked for.
Which isn't as good as choosing to stay honestly.
My theory is that pascal's village think they got disconnected but the machine consciousness are still monitoring them so they're probably connected unwittingly. Or it really doesn't matter if they're connected or not to infect them.
As for why the machine consciousness are basically crazy social darwinists using pascal as an experiment so I think they're just trying to push him? They did manage to break him out of being a pacifist after all. I found the complete wipe of his village once he crossed the line as symbolic of the death of his ideals and what he worked for.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
Without their Gestalt, the corresponding Replicant's DNA can't remain stable and starts breaking down. That's what the scrawl is. If you translate the fictional text that you see on the black scrawl it turns out it's a lot of ingredients that makes up DNA. Once the DNA has broken down, you can't make additional Replicants of the individual.
I don't know what is up with Eve. Between a bunch machines plopping out a machine that look convincingly organic...somehow, to the glowing red eyes and the cult of the watchers symbols. Little about Adam and Even really makes sense to me. It's definitely not the black scrawl though.
My Theory is the Resource Tower in the amusement park was transmitting a command to all nearby machines to start scrapping themselves and others (manifesting as a zombie like plague) in order to send the parts to the main tower.
I think you can create a new Replicant after he gets the Black Scrawl. Pretty sure Taro said it Grimoire Nier with an example that how sometimes Nier andYonah are brother and sister and somethimes father and daughter.
But that Replicant will always get the Black Scrawl if his Gestalt is relapsed, yeah.
That was not the Black Scrawl, the Scrawl was just random letters apearing on the skin while the Eve thing was turning him all black with red eyes and cult symbols. But yeah it was left unexplained.
That's how i read it: If 9S decides to join A&E, his consciousness gets uploaded onto the Ark, meaning that he will survive, but then when in Ending E the Pods rebuild their bodies, they probably do not have data about his persona, so he once again begins with a blank consciousness. If he decides to stay, he does not get uploaded onte the network, and the data from his body can be used to rebuild a new body with all his memories.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Eh, by the end of D everyone realised that they were being a little silly.
It'd be interesting to have the uploaded 9S consciousness with memories of Route C gain awareness of the rebuilt androids on the earth, and particularly the stock 9S who was able to be together with 2B without execution orders hanging over his head.
slade
Member
I'm thinking that yeah, it's this. Adam was Eve's closest relation and his death maybe caused him to manifest the Black Scrawl as a symbol. It sure didn't seem to limit his effectiveness while fighting so it was likely symbolic of his bond with Adam.
Awful Falafel
Banned
Operators and the Commander are already remotely monitoring and communicating in real time with androids on the field. If they have what basically amounts to a cell phone and GPS then clearly there is already a functional connection between the Bunker and Earth. Also with pods being able to apparently wipe Pascal and the guy in the wandering couple this is another way it could've been achieved.
This is a really good point but now I see it as a missed opportunity. Imagine discovering that you've been compromised in a more subtle way than a typical infection and thinking that there's a conspiracy suddenly you can't trust anything, not even your UI. Intentionally removing your OS chip could've been a plot point because it was really a falsely labeled remote detonator/wiper.
Yeah, I've been thinking of ways to make it interesting since I gotta start again when the DLC comes out. A bare handed only run or a speedrun could be interesting. Too bad you can't go full pacifist but a minimal killing run could be fun too.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Why do the posters say out on 4/27 rather than 2/27?
EDIT: Oh, Hong Kong release date. I guess Yoko Taro's taking a well-deserved break to do a little jet setting :-D
EDIT: Oh, Hong Kong release date. I guess Yoko Taro's taking a well-deserved break to do a little jet setting :-D
Lilalaunebaer
Member
Just wanna come by and say thanks to everyone that sacrificed their save to help me out. I was getting a bit heated there actually lol.
Also, did the first person to beat the game have to do this all by himself with the [E] credits? What a playa.
Also, did the first person to beat the game have to do this all by himself with the [E] credits? What a playa.
I'm sure the devs had their own save files there to help.
But yeah, I imagine people at Platinum had to beat by themselves to at least make sure it can be done, so the game won't become unbeatable when the serves inevitably go down in the future.
Which is kind of a sad thing to think about, that such an incredibly powerful moment is destined to be lost.
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