Support NeoGAF

Royal_Flush · Jul 11, 2017

Don't give me ideas with that wiki. I have enough unfinished projects lying around

On Topic:
- Post minimum is a good thing. And I say this as someone who usually barely makes it.
- 24h nights are a horrible idea. Even as Town I usually need some downtime to recharge. Plus it's incredibly taxing on the mod if the flavor isn't entirely pre-written.
- tone: I know I can get pissed when someone is incredibly dense. However I try to not get personal so please give me feedback if I am part of the problem. That being said I insist on calling out useless posts as useless posts. There really is no reason to sugarcoat the #1 coastertell imo.
- Anything else: I'm like 80% of the way towards bringing the vote tool back. On that note, with the postcount as new element now I maybe should include it in the tool. At my pace expect it in late 2045

Ourobolus · Jul 11, 2017

For 24-hour nights, I'm gonna give that a hard NO for the beginning of a game. As the game winds down, then it's fine to move to 24-hour nights once the players get their feet wet and they have a rhythm going. 48 is fine to start with due to timezones.

hey_monkey · Jul 11, 2017

Ourobolus said:
babble babble babble

you're not the boss of me

Ourobolus · Jul 11, 2017

hey_monkey said:
you're not the boss of me

go to your room

hey_monkey · Jul 11, 2017

Ourobolus said:
go to your room

YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD

Fat4all · Jul 12, 2017

The one time I played as scum I really enjoyed chatting with the other scum during the day phase, but I wouldn't be against playing in a game where that was restricted.

I'd just hope it'd stay as an option and not as a mandatory change for games.

franconp · Jul 12, 2017

Bronx-Man said:
I'm still a bit neutral on the 10-post count. It sounds like a great idea on paper, but in reality it led to like half of the Arkham Asylum roster getting replaced.

Actually most of the replacement in Arkham weren't by the 10-post rule. They were people who actually asked for a replacement because they couldn't keep up with the game or didn't wanted to play anymore.

If I'm not mistaken only 2 players had to be replaced by the rule. And one would have been replaced even with the old rule as he didn't posted all day 2.

Dr. Worm · Jul 12, 2017

I guess I'll add that I'm pro-minimum post count, anti-being a dick, it depends for daychats

hey_monkey said:
But presents possible problems with day starts.

what problems would that present with day starts? the intention is that they rotate, but there's timers anyway

everything else should go without saying, ofc

Fat4all · Jul 12, 2017

All-in-all I think the 10-post rule has been good in the games I've played so far.

hey_monkey · Jul 12, 2017

Dr. Worm said:
what problems would that present with day starts? the intention is that they rotate, but there's timers anyway

everything else should go without saying, ofc

For the mod. It may rotate for the convenience of players so that everyone gets a fair shot, but the mod then has to make sure they can be around to do night results, etc.

RetroMG · Jul 12, 2017

My two cents, for what they are worth, given the view from the skybox:

1. It was a good idea. It shouldn't be used in every game, but it will be refreshing on occasion.
2. I've made my opinion of this pretty clear. If you cross the line from aggressive play to abusive play, we will call you on it. If you do not change, you will be removed. We're all friends here, despite the many, many murders.
3. It seemed to work well, and is worth continuing, IMO.

On the topic of start times: The problem that must be considered is that we are literally a global community. For reference, Ynnny and I are in the two extremes in terms of time zones. It's almost 8 pm where I am, but it's almost 1pm for Ynnny. Meanwhile, it's nearly 4 am for our European Gafians like Crab and cabot.

Dr. Worm said:
Would it make sense for the timers to use something like 36 for the night or 60 for the day?

It might suck for the moderators, but it would help ensure that no one gets screwed repeatedly by timezones, or at least no more so than anyone else

If the moderator were okay with this, I'd be willing to allow it. The ideal there would be a combo of mods in varying time zones so that they have someone in each zone.

Otherwise, 24 hours for night phase is too short, IMO. I don't think any single phase should be less than 48 hours.

Actually, I'm very much in favor of mod teams, btw. Those seem to work very well, as long as both mods are committed to the game and know what's going on.

CrimsonFist said:
Promoting mod time zones more might be a good idea. So that town know when a mod should be around to end the day if they want to turbo, and not end it at 3am. v_v

*Splinter said:
Nah I think it's better if people can play the game without worrying about external factors. Backup mods can end the day, or town can wait for a flip, not a big deal.

I agree with Splinter that players shouldn't worry about it, but I do think having the Mod's time zone in the thread is a good idea, just so people are aware of when the mod might be indisposed.

Sorian · Jul 12, 2017

I enjoyed the 36 hour night phases during my short stint at mafia universe. Tends to work well as the mod can handle it.

Sophia · Jul 12, 2017

Speaking from a moderator POV: I can do 24 hours, but I prefer a little bit more just because it gives me time to unwind from end of day as well.

I'd much rather have 36 or 48, leaning towards 48 because then it's the same day/end start for me.

cabot · Jul 12, 2017

24 hours just makes it so that mods have to be on pretty much all the time during the game.

I believe a lot of the reason recurring players drop out is due to burnout from playing too many games too fast.

Unless you're Splinter, it's not healthy.

(probably isn't healthy for Splinter either, sorry lover.)

Nights shouldn't just be viewed as an annoying 'inbetween' Day phase. It should be treated as a break from the intensity of the day discussions and a time to reflect on what happened in previous Days.

The timezone issue could be got around, I think it requires a different change in process, like making all Game Materials (spreadsheets, role PMs, fluff etc.) in a space made available (Typical cloud service here) to all mods. Then it's more of a drop in drop out system where whoever is available posts the material.

Easy to set up I think, less agency on specific mods, and it's more just an executive machine that ensures the games run buttery smooth 60fps SCORPIO

Main issues there would be appropriating fluff and having mods be spoiled on all running mafia games.

Ourobolus · Jul 12, 2017

Sorian said:
I enjoyed the 36 hour night phases during my short stint at mafia universe. Tends to work well as the mod can handle it.

Doesn't MU use a mod "bot?"

Fireblend · Jul 12, 2017

Personally I like the 48 hour nights, I can't handle all this mafia-ing without a decent rest in-between days, even as town like someone else already said. Plus mods need to breath too.

Sorian said:
Also obligatory just mafia post.

Y'all thought there wouldn't be Sorian

But then there was Sorian

lol

Poltergust · Jul 12, 2017

As a new player who just played his first games online this season, I don't think I can really offer an opinion over what happened with Brexit Mafia's chat restriction.

I am still a little peeved about the PR distribution in Anime Mafia, though. That game had like 7 new players and the PRs we had offered little extra information that could have helped guide them. My post in Anime Mafia about it here.

And I still never got reviewed. :<

*Splinter · Jul 12, 2017

Poltergust said:
As a new player who just played his first games online this season, I don't think I can really offer an opinion over what happened with Brexit Mafia's chat restriction.

I am still a little peeved about the PR distribution in Anime Mafia, though. That game had like 7 new players and the PRs we had offered little extra information that could have helped guide them. My post in Anime Mafia about it here.

And I still never got reviewed. :<

The number of new players shouldn't really be considered when balancing a game (not least because that info isn't known at the time), but I've been questioning the quantity and quality of town power roles for a while now, so I'll continue to beat that drum with you.

*Splinter · Jul 12, 2017

Sorian · Jul 12, 2017

Ourobolus said:
Doesn't MU use a mod "bot?"

Yes,but the mod was usually around at day start too since the thing failed a good 20% of the time.

YesNOnoNOYes · Jul 12, 2017

Poltergust said:
As a new player who just played his first games online this season, I don't think I can really offer an opinion over what happened with Brexit Mafia's chat restriction.

I am still a little peeved about the PR distribution in Anime Mafia, though. That game had like 7 new players and the PRs we had offered little extra information that could have helped guide them. My post in Anime Mafia about it here.

And I still never got reviewed. :<

OMG

Sorry poltie! I'll do the review soon! ;__;

SkyOdin · Jul 12, 2017

I think other people have weighed in on the aggression thing enough, so I don't have too much to add. All that I can say is that different people have different ideas of where the line is. Even if you think you haven't crossed the line, the person you are angry at may not agree.

As far as the minimum post limits go, I think the ten post minimum worked great. As a player, it felt like a useful guideline to differentiate the intentional coasters from the people who simply forgot that the game had started. I see no reason to change it.

Dr. Worm · Jul 13, 2017

*Splinter said:
but I've been questioning the quantity and quality of town power roles for a while now, so I'll continue to beat that drum with you.

I'm curious; can you elaborate?

*Splinter · Jul 13, 2017

Dr. Worm said:
I'm curious; can you elaborate?

I've played games that range from role madness with unconventional mechanics all the way down to completely vanilla

plus neutral

, and in general games at those two extremes play a bit differently.

In recent seasons, it's felt like all games have played more similarly to vanilla Mafia - even games that were advertised as being role madness. By this I mean town had very little information to work with except town/scum flips and "reads", while Scum's only priority was not drawing attention to themselves. Scum were very rarely put in situations where they actually needed to lie.

Meanwhile the win/loss record has been skewing quite heavily towards scum* and it's, I think, up for debate whether this is down to poor town play or imbalanced games. Since vanilla games skew in favour of scum, I've been arguing that game balance is to blame, rather than shitty towns / amazing scums.

Previously I argued about the quantity of town PRs, but I think Ynnny debunked that, which is why I would now argue about the quality of PRs. A gossip and a cop are both "one PR", if we're counting. I haven't given any evidence to support this however, just left it as a feeling.

So far I haven't seen many people agreeing with me - which is fine. It probably means I'm wrong and is why I'm not really pushing this argument at the moment. If more people start to feel that games are skewed against town (or scum!) then I guess we'll take a closer look at how games are balanced.

I haven't really paid enough attention to S8 to have a sure opinion on game balance, but I see Polter raising similar concerns about his game (that I didn't read) so I thought I'd better add my support.

In other words, as day end approaches I have placed my vote on someone with no present chance of being lynched. I am definitely scum.

*I should point out that we are working with an unreliably small sample size, so even this isn't strong evidence of imbalance.

*Splinter · Jul 13, 2017

rabble

Sophia · Jul 13, 2017

I honestly can't tell if game balance is being skewed for town or not. I thought Pineapple Pizza Mafia was slightly town favored when I ran it, but town really had the scum team at a disadvantage even before Blarg got red-checked. *shrugs*

Ourobolus · Jul 13, 2017

While there have definitely been some balancing issues here and there - WWE, Archer, etc. - a lot of it recently has been poor team play.

Go read GAFIA 3 and tell me if that was a balance issue or Town just shitting on itself at every opportunity.

squidyj · Jul 13, 2017

*Splinter said:
Meanwhile the win/loss record has been skewing quite heavily towards scum* and it's, I think, up for debate whether this is down to poor town play or imbalanced games. Since vanilla games skew in favour of scum, I've been arguing that game balance is to blame, rather than shitty towns / amazing scums.

Towns are eating themselves alive with bad play, it's a serious problem and not something that should be supported with a crutch.

Support NeoGAF

NeoGAF Mafia S8 |Review Thread| In Which We Talk about That Thing We Don't Talk About

Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Similar threads