I turned it into a fiscal responsibility argument because I found the "hardcore gamers are willing to pay upfront because gaming is part of their identity" argument to be stupid. I do not disagree that some people prefer to have the cost spread out over a longer period of time as a matter of personal choice, but being a "hardcore gamer" has nothing to do with why I'm psychologically willing to pay more upfront but less overall.
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US: $99 Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle coming with two-year subscription ($15 a month)
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I turned it into a fiscal responsibility argument because I found the "hardcore gamers are willing to pay upfront because gaming is part of their identity" argument to be stupid. I do not disagree that some people prefer to have the cost spread out over a longer period of time as a matter of personal choice, but being a "hardcore gamer" has nothing to do with why I'm psychologically willing to pay more upfront but less overall.
Captain Tuttle
Member
I don't know though. If the machine is a beast and worth 800 bucks and you could subsidize it with monthly payments I might be alright with this. I don't buy an unlocked phone for whatever ungodly amount they charge, I get it through the carrier and pay monthly. I know it ends up costing me more but whatever.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Because no one has ever had to finance a Mac right?
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
this proposed deal is not meant for you. It's meant for the people who can't ( or don't want to for some reason) pay the total cost up front.
like others have said, this isn't targeted at the average gaffer.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I mean... just because we're stuck with contracts for phones doesn't mean we should be pleased or even okay with it trickling over to other purchases we make. It's the perfect opportunity for companies to saddle you with services and other assorted bullshit you don't want, just like the launch bundles... except they can stick you with this nonsense for a couple years.
While I dislike the idea - because I dislike most rental/payment schemes that simply encourage on-going debt obligations (particularly as the current economic woes were driven by debt driven schemes) - launching now is sound I'd argue.
2 year contract means the total cost seems okay in terms of likely timespan of ownership.
If this goes down well then when the next Xbox launches MS knows they can offer something similar right at launch (and ideally over a much longer timeframe) and make even more money. Now they might alter the cost model then so you're only paying a little more - but whichever way you cook it you're paying more.
So basically this is a great time to get the market used to the option and will nicely bed it in for next gen (if it is popular - which I hope it won't be even though it will).
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I just can't fathom why anyone would pay for this. Even $5 a month for XBL Gold would be a rip off to me.
Console subsidies... yeesh.
I do think they'll sell a few more thanks to this and the fact there are some dumb, short-sighted people out there. It's honestly the Xblox live "pay less for the console now, more later" philosophy taken to a new level.
This plan might actually backfire once the 720 hits though. Would you honestly buy a brand new cell phone/computer/car while still paying off an old one?
I do think they'll sell a few more thanks to this and the fact there are some dumb, short-sighted people out there. It's honestly the Xblox live "pay less for the console now, more later" philosophy taken to a new level.
This plan might actually backfire once the 720 hits though. Would you honestly buy a brand new cell phone/computer/car while still paying off an old one?
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I'm also a hardcore chair sitter and coffee maker user. Didn't even think about rent to own, because I'm a mothafuckin' enthusiast.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Actually this deal is CHEAPER!
An extra 1 year extended warranty on a 360 S Kinect Model is $25 for the System + $25 for the Kinect. That's a total of $50 for the extra year warranty which you don't get from buying the system out right because you only get a 1 year warranty.
http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/repair/extended-service-plan
Pricing right there on Warranties!
An extra 1 year extended warranty on a 360 S Kinect Model is $25 for the System + $25 for the Kinect. That's a total of $50 for the extra year warranty which you don't get from buying the system out right because you only get a 1 year warranty.
http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/repair/extended-service-plan
Pricing right there on Warranties!
I was responding to someone who said that this is the same exact idea as the razor & blades/hardware & software model, not whether it should exist or not. This is just a method of deferred payment, not really a subsidy, since you can buy XBLG subscriptions outside of this deal.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
It is precisely the perfect opportunity to saddle customers with additional services and other assorted bullshit.
As a consumer...you can opt out of it.
If enough people opt out. Microsoft will get the message.
It might not be a complete shit-show or maybe it will but the hair-tearing and panic in this thread is insane.
There's a couple people on XBL that would disagree with you.
I was thinking the same thing. Assuming the NextBox was a beast and came in at $600 or so, I'd be more than willing to sign a four-year contract to get the system for $200 at launch if it came with a warranty for those years and Live.
do you buy special paint coating and window etching on your new car because its cheaper to bundle then buy them separate? No... because there is rarely any person who wants those things. So to make the comparison is silly.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
It's such a shame you can't play the vast library of dirty cheap games already out there, or perhaps keep using other services which are probably the main reason you bought the thing in the first place.
Oh wait, you can.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Yep. As long as the choice was there to buy the thing outright.
LOL... Great find. I had no idea where the warranty info was, so I could respond to all of the nonsense being slung around.
HamPster PamPster
Member
Take the initial savings and invest them in several Lego sets. Every 6 months sell a set and use that to pay the $15. If Gary Whitta has taught me anything its that Lego never depreciate in value! Just going to sit back and laugh at the people in this thread calling this a poor value... laugh all the way to the bank
What video services does the 360 offer anyway (besides netflix)? Is it anything more then what CNN or whoever posts on their website? I haven't had cable in years and Netflix + Amazon on my PS3 doesn't cut it some days
What video services does the 360 offer anyway (besides netflix)? Is it anything more then what CNN or whoever posts on their website? I haven't had cable in years and Netflix + Amazon on my PS3 doesn't cut it some days
MightyHedgehog
Member
Whatever about the damned labels, man. It's just a convenient choice of language to serve my point, which was that enthusiasts are more likely to stick to the upfront method because some react like those in this thread when faced with something different, not even a forced change or anything, just a different option. Or, they do the math and see how they can save up for this stuff or justify a huge expense out of spending money or use of credit to go the traditional way. But not all will. Broad strokes, man. I wrote in broad strokes to make the very point that you agreed with. Of course, not all will fit in this, but I'm considering who I'm likely to be addressing on a site like GAF.
I imagine we will see this next gen, if Amaxong can do it with Kindles, Apple can do it with and Sony can do it with the Vita, I don't see why they can't do it with a console.
Especially if it needs an always on Internet connection or a 3G signal.... That'll be the next gen version.
There is definitely a market for it, it's better value than buying a 360 on a ridiculous credit agreement from a catalogue shopping firm or from a shop like Brighthouse.
It could be a way around the prohibitive costs of a new release console. I don't think I'd of bought an iPhone outright, I know I'm paying more by buying it on a contract, but it's far more convienient.
Especially if it needs an always on Internet connection or a 3G signal.... That'll be the next gen version.
There is definitely a market for it, it's better value than buying a 360 on a ridiculous credit agreement from a catalogue shopping firm or from a shop like Brighthouse.
It could be a way around the prohibitive costs of a new release console. I don't think I'd of bought an iPhone outright, I know I'm paying more by buying it on a contract, but it's far more convienient.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say honestly. Steam on Macs opened me up to PC gaming. Before then I was hesitant to try it out. If this is a "but a Mac is more expensive than this deal" thing, then allow me to remind you that I can't surf the internet or write papers for school on my Xbox.
If the program is successful (and I"m sure it will be), I'm pretty sure you'll soon be seeing these at Amazon and other retailers.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It strikes me like DLC, where if you didn't want it, you didn't have to buy it... and companies would get the message. And now we're missing characters in SFxT.
Or Xbox Live, where if you didn't want it, you didn't have to buy it... and that would send Microsoft a message. Now it's $60 instead of $50.
Basically, if the industry has a bad idea, enough people will buy into it that we're fucked regardless of how we happen to feel about it. Well, unless one just quits gaming altogether, but that kind of defeats the point.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Maybe...maybe the NextBox is a monster when it comes to performance...and cost. Maybe...maybe this will be a way to get more NextBox's in homes at launch at price point the consumer can accept and allow Microsoft to hit the revenue targets it wants...if on a longer time line.
UberTag
Member
I'm doing some digging right now to assess whether or not this offer will be matched via the online Microsoft Store retail site. Either next week or shortly thereafter.
Should hear back shortly.
Actually, here's a big part of what I think their angle is in all of this.
My guess is that Xbox Live subscribers are more likely to purchase XBLA games and services. I also think a big factor in the amount of purchases made on Google Play and the App store is that people who actively subscribe to data plans and phone subsidies look at their devices as an investment due to the ongoing fees, and software purchases make that investment seem better warranted.
The goal here is to test a service that would turn consumers into super-consumers and give the notion of a cheaper console. If it works, this is how the 720 will be sold. $199 with a $15/mo two year contract. This would also pretty much kill any chance of people buying multiple consoles.
My guess is that Xbox Live subscribers are more likely to purchase XBLA games and services. I also think a big factor in the amount of purchases made on Google Play and the App store is that people who actively subscribe to data plans and phone subsidies look at their devices as an investment due to the ongoing fees, and software purchases make that investment seem better warranted.
The goal here is to test a service that would turn consumers into super-consumers and give the notion of a cheaper console. If it works, this is how the 720 will be sold. $199 with a $15/mo two year contract. This would also pretty much kill any chance of people buying multiple consoles.
mclaren777
Member
This bundle sounds like it's aimed at people who are bad at math.
Castef
Banned
Exactly. Also, in "these times", people may not want to spend 3/400 dollars (or euros) on a gaming console. Yet, maybe they won't have problems in paying 20/30 dollars a month to own it, exacly like it is happening with smartphones.
Could be a winning model.
Pretty much. When there's only two companies making HD consoles they know you don't have options, and it's like that in any industry. They know they can tell you exactly how far you're going to bend over, and if you don't like it you can get fucked.
So if you don't have the money to buy a console the answer is to spend even MORE money on one with a contract an a termination fee? Welcome to bizzaro world.
Lagspike_exe
Member
This is actually really smart. MS has large cash reserves which would be put to a good use and the price point will allow for stronger penetration into the casual market. Not including the harddrive is also smart. The added value wouldn't be a strong incentive for that many casuals and the extra revenue generated by the additional sold HDDs could be quite significant in the long run.
Tell me, in two years, what's the value of $420 today?
HamPster PamPster
Member
I bought a phone off contract and structured my t-mobile plan just the way I want it getting rid of all the stuff I don't want
Its nice to see how smart many of you think I am
Of course you probably typed that from your nice shiny iPhones...
Its nice to see how smart many of you think I am
Of course you probably typed that from your nice shiny iPhones...bigdaddygamebot
Member
The truly bad ideas don't make it through.
The inconvenient and dumb ideas...well...it takes a while. Since the most recent redesign of XBL and the direction it seems to be taking with APPS and Television/Movies/Music...yeah...I doubt I'll be renewing my XBL on an annual basis and instead resort to months at a time when I know there is something I want to play co-op or multi.
As much as the PSN fans and the PC only crowd love to gush about free online access, clearly people are willing to pay for XBL due to the additional services offered by it. XBL is most definitely NOT a bad idea...nor a stupid idea.
Either people find value in it or they don't. I'm finding less and less value in it so when my subscription dies...that's it.
Well, I'm still disagreeing with you somewhat, in that I think that most people who will stick to the upfront method will do so if they have stable finances and can afford the upfront cost, if it ends up being a better value. I wouldn't use this current offer not because it's a different option, but because financially it is a worse option. If the monthly payment plan somehow resulted in me spending less money, I'd use that instead.
In fact, I'm guessing that a poor gaming enthusiast would be MORE likely to jump on the monthly plan at a console's launch if he could not acquire one otherwise, considering his desire to acquire the product is probably higher than the average person's.
And people that aren't aware the next Xbox will likely be released before the contract for their 360 would end.
Also, it would cut out scalpers at launch and make the console an awkward gift.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Yep.
It's crazy but could completely blow the doors off of the competition when it comes to early install numbers.
With that said...you put people on a contract and they now have a much more permanent and consistent relationship with you. Microsoft had better prepare for increased call volume to their call centers because being an Xbox owner just got much more complicated.
ii Stryker
Banned
I thought it was only for 24 months? 2 years = 24 months no?
At any rate only offering the 4Gb model makes this laughable. You can get a 250BG 360 with kinect for $399 and 2 yr sub to XBL for $120 or less. Not even worth it.
UberTag
Member
Think about what you just said for a second.
Anyone that jumps on this deal will likely not own an Xbox 360 already despite the fact that it came out 6 1/2 YEARS AGO.
Why would these same people be upset about not having "the next Xbox" (still 12-18 months from release) right away due to having committed to a 2-year contract on this one?
sixteen-bit
Member
2 year contract is interesting. When exactly is MS intending on releasing the 360 successor?
flyinpiranha
Member
Since when does a smartphone need a data plan to work? Last I checked I used Wifi almost everywhere. It's not a "kind of need". They subsidize the price of equipment with subscriptions.
Why are people "stupid" who do this? It's another option for people. Why are they "stupid" to do this again? We don't even know what the additional services are and right now there's barely a game price difference in price.
This argument is so dumb. With interest rates so low the amount $200 in savings would even net you is so negligible it shouldn't even be included in this argument. It reminds me of the "I don't want to give Gamestop my $5, I'll make so much on that interest if I keep it in my checking account that doesn't compound interest at all".
It's not a bit more complicated, the amounts we're dealing with are so low that it shouldn't matter, unless $9 over the course of 2 years is going to make or break your savings investments.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Are you saying that people are willing to pay for XBL? So am I! I have been for years and I love it. But as someone who has absolutely zero interest in TV services, $15 would be a total rip off. And, like I said, even $5 a month for an XBL Gold subscription would be more than I've ever paid before.
fluffydelusions
Member
They are reliable. Founder is Josh from engadget and a whole bunch of other people from their as well.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
You know that you only pay the termination fee if you cancel your service during the time period that the contract is active, right?
But those people are also paying for more than just XBL for a month. They are also subsidizing the purchase of their XBox. A shiny, brand new Xbox with a big harddrive and Kinect thrown in.
(I'm not saying the pricing isn't fucked. It's pretty ridiculous. I think Microsoft could afford to charge even less up front for the acquisition of the package.)
Their concept is sound however.
Sigh, so the financial meltdown of 2008 has taught people nothing. If people can't afford the price of a game console outright, then they shouldn't get one. These things are not a good reason to go into debt, and make no mistake about it, these 'contracts' ARE just another form of debt. And yes, I do believe the same applies to cell phones as well.
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