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Project CARS 2 discussion thread (provisional release date: Septemberish 2017)

N

NullPointer

Member
After trying the Forza demo I think I'm back on the Project Cars 2 release wagon. Actually reinstalled PC1 and drove around for a bit, and if PC2 is a refinement of that then I'm more than OK. Forza is fine, but I just don't feel a need to pick it up. And of course seeing lootboxes and driver customization just gives me that bad future microtransaction taste in my mouth.

Also, only just read up on the Race Engineer system last night, and its something I've wished these games would have for a long time now.

vXtF7Ib.png


I've tried to dig into the minutia of tuning before, but I get lost in the weeds and don't really have the car sense to test different settings properly. So have always wanted some kind of question/answer system to give me some direction rather than just fiddling with settings and or downloading somebody else's tune and hoping for the best. That or just not have tuning altogether (like DriveClub).

This was the straw that broke the camel's back in my resistance ;p
 
T

TylerDurden4321

Member
NullPointer said:
I've tried to dig into the minutia of tuning before, but I get lost in the weeds and don't really have the car sense to test different settings properly. So have always wanted some kind of question/answer system to give me some direction rather than just fiddling with settings and or downloading somebody else's tune and hoping for the best. That or just not have tuning altogether (like DriveClub).

This was the straw that broke the camel's back in my resistance ;p
Click to expand...
Do you know how all the parts you can change in a tuning setup look and work/operate? I think this always helped me the most. Just reading a description, no matter how well written, never helped me much. I need to make a picture in my mind of what will happen with the car and that part when I change the setting in a certain way.

That tuning guide with just keywords you can find a link to in the Assetto Corsa OP is really good for the length of like 4 twitter messages or so.

Aris, the guy who makes the car physics at Kunos, also made a video series on youtube recently, how to be fast and find a good setup, I only watched 1 1/2 episodes myself though. Don't know how many there are by now.


Edit: And feel free to ask anything, I have a few pretty technical and normally quite expensive eBooks about how modern cars work and also what race car engineers need to know from my university and could look things up for you (or send pages from a book).
 
D

DivineRage002

Member
NullPointer said:
After trying the Forza demo I think I'm back on the Project Cars 2 release wagon. Actually reinstalled PC1 and drove around for a bit, and if PC2 is a refinement of that then I'm more than OK. Forza is fine, but I just don't feel a need to pick it up. And of course seeing lootboxes and driver customization just gives me that bad future microtransaction taste in my mouth.

Also, only just read up on the Race Engineer system last night, and its something I've wished these games would have for a long time now.

vXtF7Ib.png


I've tried to dig into the minutia of tuning before, but I get lost in the weeds and don't really have the car sense to test different settings properly. So have always wanted some kind of question/answer system to give me some direction rather than just fiddling with settings and or downloading somebody else's tune and hoping for the best. That or just not have tuning altogether (like DriveClub).

This was the straw that broke the camel's back in my resistance ;p
Click to expand...

Completely agree, although I did find it hilarious when I saw "I'm stopping too quickly", as if that was a bad thing!

I understand it means you're locking your wheels, but I just found it to be worded in a funny way.

Edit: I actually thought of making a tuning tutorial video on youtube when PCars 2 is released, would anyone else be interested?
 
N

NullPointer

Member
TylerDurden4321 said:
Do you know how all the parts you can change in a tuning setup look and work/operate? I think this always helped me the most. Just reading a description, no matter how well written, never helped me much. I need to make a picture in my mind of what will happen with the car and that part when I change the setting in a certain way.
Click to expand...
I understand most of the theory and the forces at work -- crazy interesting stuff to my geek mind - but I lose the plot once I start nudging bars of decimal positions or entering in numeric values. How much is a nudge? How much is a lot? How much test driving do I need to do to *feel* a difference? And I often forget how the rules change up across FWD/RWD/AWD and different engine positions.

Its where that rubber meets the road that I get lost, and even a basic layer of simplicity over the details -- beyond simple speed <--> cornering kindof sliders is appreciated.

Honestly this kind of system is exactly what I've always wanted. Rather than tossing the player into the deep end, provide an engineer you can bitch at chat with ;p
 
C

cooldawn

Member
NullPointer said:
Also, only just read up on the Race Engineer system last night, and its something I've wished these games would have for a long time now.

vXtF7Ib.png


I've tried to dig into the minutia of tuning before, but I get lost in the weeds and don't really have the car sense to test different settings properly. So have always wanted some kind of question/answer system to give me some direction rather than just fiddling with settings and or downloading somebody else's tune and hoping for the best. That or just not have tuning altogether (like DriveClub).

This was the straw that broke the camel's back in my resistance ;p
Click to expand...
The F1 game on PS3...F1 Championship Edition did this. It let you test the car on-track, then ask how it felt and the system would make adjustments according to your answers. A brilliant system never used again.
 
T

TylerDurden4321

Member
NullPointer said:
I understand most of the theory and the forces at work -- crazy interesting stuff to my geek mind - but I lose the plot once I start nudging bars of decimal positions or entering in numeric values. How much is a nudge? How much is a lot? How much test driving do I need to do to *feel* a difference? And I often forget how the rules change up across FWD/RWD/AWD and different engine positions.

Its where that rubber meets the road that I get lost, and even a basic layer of simplicity over the details -- beyond simple speed <--> cornering kindof sliders is appreciated.

Honestly this kind of system is exactly what I've always wanted. Rather than tossing the player into the deep end, provide an engineer you can bitch at chat with ;p
Click to expand...
If you don't know by how much, just overdo it, try a few corners and see if it helped to get you in the right direction in terms of under-/oversteer. If it's the right direction, you can dial it back from there.

We'll see how well that race engineer works, I have some serious doubts that it can cope with so many very different types of cars.
 
F

fresquito

Member
A Race Engiineer is indeed a great addition and a good place to start from. The biggest issue with setups tends to be you don't really know where to start from, they are so intimidating. Familiarizing with terms and being open to fiddle with a handful things to make your driving more confortable is a great first step.

I agree with Tyler though. For me it is easier trying understanding what the different elements are and how they affect the car behaviour. LIke, hard dampers usually mean more stability. But this is only true to some extent, because on bumpy roads, harder dampers mean more rebounds, which can cause trouble. Having a basic idea of what dampers do makes my job easier when it comes down to making a setup.

Then again, I'm a mediocre driver, so my setups only make me feel more confortable with the car (which is a big plus), but I have a hard time making a setup to go faster because it's very hard for me to judge when I'm gaining because the setup and when because I finally nailed that certain turn.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
TylerDurden4321 said:
If you don't know by how much, just overdo it, try a few corners and see if it helped to get you in the right direction in terms of under-/oversteer. If it's the right direction, you can dial it back from there.

We'll see how well that race engineer works, I have some serious doubts that it can cope with so many very different types of cars.
Click to expand...
Yeah, am not expecting it to deal with 100% of tuning, but to help provide some direction and feedback really. To help tuning-noobs such as myself get a little better planted. Sort of a meet-me-halfway-with-this-shit-wouldja? system.

DivineRage002 said:
Edit: I actually thought of making a tuning tutorial video on youtube when PCars 2 is released, would anyone else be interested?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. And if you could, one thing that would help a guy like me is if you could go into a little detail of what we should listen and feel for after making an adjustment to see if we've gone too far over or under the mark. Seems to be the missing piece in a lot of tuning videos I've watched, both for games and real world settings and would help close the loop between theory and practice.
 
T

TylerDurden4321

Member
fresquito said:
A Race Engiineer is indeed a great addition and a good place to start from. The biggest issue with setups tends to be you don't really know where to start from, they are so intimidating. Familiarizing with terms and being open to fiddle with a handful things to make your driving more confortable is a great first step.

I agree with Tyler though. For me it is easier trying understanding what the different elements are and how they affect the car behaviour. LIke, hard dampers usually mean more stability. But this is only true to some extent, because on bumpy roads, harder dampers mean more rebounds, which can cause trouble. Having a basic idea of what dampers do makes my job easier when it comes down to making a setup.

Then again, I'm a mediocre driver, so my setups only make me feel more confortable with the car (which is a big plus), but I have a hard time making a setup to go faster because it's very hard for me to judge when I'm gaining because the setup and when because I finally nailed that certain turn.
Click to expand...
No bumpy surfaces are the fast bump setting, should not really change turn-in or what happens when you're accelerating out of the corner.
 
D

DivineRage002

Member
NullPointer said:
Yeah, am not expecting it to deal with 100% of tuning, but to help provide some direction and feedback really. To help tuning-noobs such as myself get a little better planted. Sort of a meet-me-halfway-with-this-shit-wouldja? system.


Absolutely. And if I could, one thing that would help a guy like me is if you could go into a little detail of what we should listen and feel for after making an adjustment to see if we've gone too far over or under the mark. Seems to be the missing piece in a lot of tuning videos I've watched, both for games and real world settings and would help close the loop between theory and practice.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, "feeling" is only to fine-tune a car. Tire heat will tell you everything you need to know to get a good basic setup going, for your driving style.

The only thing you need to pay attention to is if the car is bottoming out, which is extremely straight forward.

I'm going to make that tutorial video when the game comes out. Any requests for the car I should use?

Edit: The car I use has to have a tuneable suspension, so road cars are probably out of the question.
 
T

TylerDurden4321

Member
DivineRage002 said:
I'm going to make that tutorial video when the game comes out. Any requests for the car I should use?

Edit: The car I use has to have a tuneable suspension, so road cars are probably out of the question.
Click to expand...

I'd say the Caterham 620R is a good one for seeing how a setup changes things. Rally cars too, but a RWD car is a more typical example.
 
D

danowat

Banned
Car tuning, in its most simplest form is all about controlling weight transfer.

The analogy I like to use is to think of the car as a bath of water, what happens to the water when you accelerate, brake or turn, and how that affects the amount of grip the tyres have i.e. When you accelerate the weight shifts to the back, so if you're driving a rwd car you will want more weight transfer to the back (to aid traction), and if you in a fwd car, you'll want less.

Basically, springs control weight transfer front and rear, anti roll bars control weight transfer left to right, and dampers control how fast the springs move up and down.
 
F

fresquito

Member
TylerDurden4321 said:
No bumpy surfaces are the fast bump setting, should not really change turn-in or what happens when you're accelerating out of the corner.
Click to expand...
I found that corners with big bumps do indeed affect the turn in and corner exit, that's why my example. Maybe was telling myself. like I told, on road is the harder part for me when it comes down to testing setups.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
danowat said:
The analogy I like to use is to think of the car as a bath of water, what happens to the water when you accelerate, brake or turn, and how that affects the amount of grip the tyres have i.e. When you accelerate the weight shifts to the back, so if you're driving a rwd car you will want more weight transfer to the back (to aid traction), and if you in a fwd car, you'll want less.
Click to expand...
That's a really great way to put it.
 
D

DivineRage002

Member
DivineRage002 said:
Believe it or not, "feeling" is only to fine-tune a car. Tire heat will tell you everything you need to know to get a good basic setup going, for your driving style.

The only thing you need to pay attention to is if the car is bottoming out, which is extremely straight forward.

I'm going to make that tutorial video when the game comes out. Any requests for the car I should use?

Edit: The car I use has to have a tuneable suspension, so road cars are probably out of the question.
Click to expand...

Furthermore, any track request to go along with the car?

Edit: Please no nurburgring or anything too long.
 
T

TylerDurden4321

Member
fresquito said:
I found that corners with big bumps do indeed affect the turn in and corner exit, that's why my example. Maybe was telling myself. like I told, on road is the harder part for me when it comes down to testing setups.
Click to expand...
I guess it can happen, the transition is somewhat fluid, it depends on how hard the springs are and also what the damper manufacturer (in this case SMS) set the threshold too. A 5-30mm/s damper speed relates to roll and pitch compression/expansion, 30-200 is road bumps and over 200mm/s is for hitting curbs at speed.
In Assetto Corsa, rFactor and Automobilista you can export telemetry data to MoTec i2 Pro and look at damper charts and histograms to see what's what.
pCARS1 unfortunately doesn't have telemetry channels in shared memory for dampers, suspension travel and not even tire loads/normal forces. It doesn't even have it for the inner-mid-outer tire temps. Seems to just be made to give motion rigs the necessary data. Then they added channels for people who were making live-data phone and tablet apps, but nothing good for telemetry charts.

danowat said:
The analogy I like to use is to think of the car as a bath of water,
Click to expand...
or a bathtub full of fuel in case of older formula cars
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Random, but something I'd love to see is if Project Cars could spin off to making separate standalone expansions where SMS can focus on particular motorsports. Like Project Cars: Rally, Project Cars: F1, Project Cars: Nascar, etc. Sell them as ~$30 standalone packages, but have them also act as expansions to Project Cars 2 so you can integrate that content (cars and tracks) without having to boot up a separate game.

Would be a nice way to keep things going in-between numbered releases too.

Does that sound in any way feasible?
 
M

Mascot

Member
danowat said:
Car tuning, in its most simplest form is all about controlling weight transfer.

The analogy I like to use is to think of the car as a bath of water, what happens to the water when you accelerate, brake or turn, and how that affects the amount of grip the tyres have i.e. When you accelerate the weight shifts to the back, so if you're driving a rwd car you will want more weight transfer to the back (to aid traction), and if you in a fwd car, you'll want less.

Basically, springs control weight transfer front and rear, anti roll bars control weight transfer left to right, and dampers control how fast the springs move up and down.
Click to expand...

One of the early Gran Turismos came with a little book explaining things like this, the importance of braking in a straight line before a turn to shift weight forwards and load up the front tyres for better grip, and how tyres have finite adhesion at any one moment so if you use all of that slowing down then there might be insufficient to turn the car. It explained the racing line through corners, how best deal with double apexes etc etc. It was very informative and a revelation at the time.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Mascot said:
One of the early Gran Turismos came with a little book explaining things like this, the importance of braking in a straight line before a turn to shift weight forwards and load up the front tyres for better grip, and how tyres have finite adhesion at any one moment so if you use all of that slowing down then there might be insufficient to turn the car. It explained the racing line through corners, how best deal with double apexes etc etc.It was very informative and a revelation at the time.
Click to expand...
This was my go-to resource when I was trying to get a handle on sim racing in general:

[url]http://www.drivingfast.net/[/URL]

Helped out a ton (especially the section on the racing line), and opened up a whole new world for me.

And the nice thing about real world tracks is there are videos out there of drivers walking the course, identifying braking points, special features and pitfalls to watch out for, tactics for attacking certain segments, etc. Never grew up watching motorsport, so games and the videos I used to get a handle on techniques have been my window in.

Funny side bit: I actually started watching Top Gear purely to help me choose which cars to drive in games like Forza and GT because the car rosters were just overwhelming. It helped! Got to learn what the different manufacturers were known for, the big rivalries, the all time classics, etc. Of course I got completely hooked too.
 
M

Mascot

Member
NullPointer said:
Random, but something I'd love to see is if Project Cars could spin off to making separate standalone expansions where SMS can focus on particular motorsports. Like Project Cars: Rally, Project Cars: F1, Project Cars: Nascar, etc. Sell them as ~$30 standalone packages, but have them also act as expansions to Project Cars 2 so you can integrate that content (cars and tracks) without having to boot up a separate game.

Would be a nice way to keep things going in-between numbered releases too.

Does that sound in any way feasible?
Click to expand...

It's not only feasible, it how Ian Bell said Project CARS will probably go after pCARS 2. The next one could focus on tarmac racing, which would make me very happy indeed as i can't help feeling rallycross and ice racing spread the team too thinly.

(This was said in yesterday's excellent drunken YouTube Q&A)
 
D

danowat

Banned
Mascot said:
One of the early Gran Turismos came with a little book explaining things like this, the importance of braking in a straight line before a turn to shift weight forwards and load up the front tyres for better grip, and how tyres have finite adhesion at any one moment so if you use all of that slowing down then there might be insufficient to turn the car. It explained the racing line through corners, how best deal with double apexes etc etc. It was very informative and a revelation at the time.
Click to expand...
You're right, it did, I remember it, but can't remember which GT is was with, it must have been with GT2?
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Mascot said:
It's not only feasible, it how Ian Bell said Project CARS will probably go after pCARS 2. The next one could focus on tarmac racing, which would make me very happy indeed as i can't help feeling rallycross and ice racing spread the team too thinly.

(This was said in yesterday's excellent drunken YouTube Q&A)
Click to expand...
Holy shit, nice. I listened to a bunch of that as it was streaming live, but I guess I missed that part.

The more I think about it the more it seems like it's just so much work to add new tracks that maybe it wouldn't work out timing wise - but if they can pull it off I'll be up for it. They seem better positioned than the competition to give it a try, what with their everything-goes simulation work making for a nice foundation to expand upon.
 
M

Mascot

Member
NullPointer said:
Holy shit, nice. I listened to a bunch of that as it was streaming live, but I guess I missed that part.

The more I think about it the more it seems like it's just so much work to add new tracks that maybe it wouldn't work out timing wise - but if they can pull it off I'll be up for it. They seem better positioned than the competition to give it a try, what with their everything-goes simulation work making for a nice foundation to expand upon.
Click to expand...

GTR3 has me quite excited because the GT classes are where my interests firmly lie. The thought of a tightly-focuses GT game without any of the stuff that doesn't interest me appeals greatly. I'll probably only use a small part of pCARS 2 content. I still haven't even sat in a cart in the first game. I've got god-knows-how-many great track mods in Assetto Corsa but always seem to load up LeMans, Spa or RA for 30-car-grid GT races in VR. And usually in the 911 RSR,,! :)
 
M

Mascot

Member
danowat said:
You're right, it did, I remember it, but can't remember which GT is was with, it must have been with GT2?
Click to expand...

This is from GT5 Prologue, but I can't find reference to an earlier booklet. I was sure it was GT2 as well. Maybe they recycled old content?

004.jpg
 
M

Mascot

Member
danowat said:
Yeah, that's the one, was a very good resource, back when you used to get paper manuals.
Click to expand...

The one I had was DEFINITELY well before GT5P. I know that because I took it in to work to discuss with a fellow car nut colleague at a place I was at well before GT5P.

The whole thing is scanned here btw.
 
H

HueyFreeman

Banned
Weeeeell I caved and bought. Ultimately the metacritic holding at 87 after 17 reviews says to me that this still must be a pretty awesome game despite some launch issues, and actually IGN's video review (of all things - I'm not a fan) just showed a lot of gameplay footage that looked great. Given I'll be playing on a PS4 Pro, the framerate/tearing shouldn't be an issue, and I think I want to support an indie venture in this genre, particularly after reading the shit in that awful EA thread (despite the fact that Ian Bell seems unstable lol)
 
H

HueyFreeman

Banned
DSPEED said:
Preload isn't working for me (PS4). I click the download icon and nothing happens. Anyone else have this problem?
Click to expand...

That's not actually how you download it - you have to navigate to the screen with the timer on it and make sure auto-download is on. My autoDL wasn't working either though, so I don't think it's up yet. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong though
 
D

DSPEED

Member
HueyFreeman said:
That's not actually how you download it - you have to navigate to the screen with the timer on it and make sure auto-download is on. My autoDL wasn't working either though, so I don't think it's up yet. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong though
Click to expand...

Auto-download is on. Contacted customer service and they aren't sure why it's not downloading. Searched the PC2 FB page and found other people are having the same problem. Someone mentioned they are staggering the preload and it will be available at midnight tonight. Guess I'll wait and see.
 
notacat

notacat

Member
So like corsa, it's realistic?

Am I the only one with the GT2 Suzuki Escudo Pikes peak version tattooed on my face?

Because that was the funnest thing ever? Missing the point here.
 
R

ReDelicious

Member
Spaceman Spiff said:
Same here. Relatedly, the '17 911 RSR surely must be coming, given that a Porsche GTE contender is conspicuously absent as of now.
Click to expand...

Would love to see that in as well. That Porsche shocked the hell out of me when I first heard it. It might have been the loudest car on the track or maybe slightly less so than the LMP2s.
 
VVV Mars VG

VVV Mars VG

Member
danowat said:
Team VVV Initial impressions podcast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFmKIoSVzF8

Lot of good info about the differences between the controller input between PC1 and PC2, in short, much better, but still has some issues with some cars.

Does still look quite buggy, especially in terms of AI......
Click to expand...

Yes, hopefully the AI will be sorted out, but we won't know how many bugs are in there till it's released. Sufficed to say there's a much larger team dedicated to getting it all fixed asap.

But on the bright side, there's so much in this package its got everything I need in terms of racing.
 
D

danowat

Banned
Is there a list of known issues with the release (post D1(2?)P) version?

I'm sure it's already been asked, but I can't remember the answer, does PC2 have a dash view like AC and Dirt has?
 
M

Mascot

Member
danowat said:
Is there a list of known issues with the release (post D1(2?)P) version?

I'm sure it's already been asked, but I can't remember the answer, does PC2 have a dash view like AC and Dirt has?
Click to expand...

You can remove the steering wheel if that's what you mean.
 
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