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Dark Matter (Steam, $15) ABRUPTLY ends 4 hours in b/c the devs ran out of time/money.

F

Famassu

Member
Aselith said:
A more experienced/responsible dev would have realized they were almost out of money and worked to create an appropriate end point.
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They had plans for a bigger game, but they needed Kickstarter money for it. They tried to get this Kickstarted but failed, so THEN they ran out of money. Their KS campaign wasn't successful, so they simply had no money to do any kind of ending other than what is in it now. It's not about being "experienced" or "responsible", they made a wager with their own money: they developed a small portion of the game to showcase what they wanted to do -> they did this with their own money -> they went to Kickstarter to hopefully get funding so that they could develop the rest of the game -> Kickstarter failed, but they had no money left after already developing the game with their own money for however long they had worked on it -> they didn't really even have money to develop any kind of ending as they had already spent all of it to get the current build done to showcase the game during the Kickstarter campaign, so they just put the game out to Steam as it was + a text screen ending (which is wrong of them without a warning).

Sakujou said:
first of all this.
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First of all, read the fucking OP. This game TRIED to get Kickstarter backing but their Kickstarter campaign failed, meaning no one ever gave them any money to develop this. This is actually a perfect example of how Kickstarter can HELP and be AN AWESOME THING. Based on impressions about the game, the four hours that they had for this game are actually quite well developed & fun. It just ends out of nowhere. Had they had Kickstarter funding, they could've developed a full game with a proper ending.


Second, there are plenty of successful Kickstarted games (& projects other than games) that turned out good or even great. FTL, Giana Sisters, Sequence & Shadowrun Returns, for example, and we are getting games like Wasteland 2, Dead State, Pier Solar HD, Broken Sword 5 and such soon and have games like Project Eternity and Torment 2 that are coming further along the way.
 
2

2 Slice Toaster

Member
If this is the game experience by which the developers consider it complete, even if not representative of their original vision for the game, than it is for all intents and purposes "finished". The scope of it is diminished, and there is that tacked on text ending straight out of NES days, but as long as the existing gameplay is functional, its not hard crashing, or any other glaring technical faults, it is what it is.

People should definitely rail against it for being a subpar game, especially knowing what it could have been, but if the developers don't intend to use funding from the game sales to further develop and add to it, I don't see how it belongs in Early Access.
 
R

Rubius

Member
StuBurns said:
Games aren't made like novels, I don't understand.
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Some are. Look at Episode 2 ending. It raised more questions than the average LOST episode. That's the only reason why people want Half Life 3. Because the story ended on a Cliffhanger.
But I do agree that the game is finished. It's just a really, really, really poor end game. They should have said "Chapter 1 of X"
 
B

blitzcloud

Banned
tranciful said:
You'd also have a legitimate complaint because they didn't give you what was described. Did their Steam page promise levels that didn't exist?
Click to expand...

The problem is that games in general hardly live up to their snippet.


"In this game you'll explore whatever region of the planet and make a quest that will change the world through emotional storytelling".

*onrails/corridorgameplaywithgenericstory*
 
R

Rubius

Member
antitrop said:
It's completely unethical.
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It's not really. The game is finished, it's simply not finished the way they intended it. They will make a chapter 2 to continue the story if they get enough money, and if the game is good up to the ending, who care about the ending?

Mass Effect 3 was good and yet had a shitty ending.

Half Life 2 : Episode 2 is 5½ Hours long. And end on a giant cliffhanger that have yet to be explained. Does that mean that Episode 2 is not a complete game because there is no "ending"?
Should they just say "You saved the X, Congraturation"? It's a shitty ending, yeah, but it's not unethical or wrong. Gone Home is 25 seconds long if you play it for a second time and cost 20$.
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
Rubius said:
It's not really. The game is finished, it's simply not finished the way they intended it. They will make a chapter 2 to continue the story if they get enough money, and if the game is good up to the ending, who care about the ending?

Mass Effect 3 was good and yet had a shitty ending.
Click to expand...

These types of comparisons make no sense.

When a game itself literally has to inform the player that there is no ending and that the player has beaten the game, that's failure in design. A poor ending isn't failure of design, being bummed out or disappointed in what was presented in a game's final hour would amount to poor design decisions.

Why are people defending this sort of business practice? The developers should a message on the store page for their game stating the game is missing content, period.
 
A

antitrop

Member
I don't see how this is anything like Mass Effect 3. The ending of ME3 wasn't unethical, just... bad.

This, however, is probably one of the most disingenuous releases I've seen on Steam since The War Z. Or that rebranded Dino shooter from earlier this year.
 
F

Frankenstrat

Member
tolkir said:
eva26.jpg
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This in a nutshell. Goddamn.
 
R

Rubius

Member
MormaPope said:
These types of comparisons make no sense.

When a game itself literally has to inform the player that there is no ending and that the player has beaten the game, that's failure in design. A poor ending isn't failure of design, being bummed out or disappointed in what was presented in a game's final hour would amount to poor design decisions.

Why are people defending this sort of business practice? The developers should a message on the store page for their game stating the game is missing content, period.
Click to expand...

Every game is missing content. I had a friend who was beta testing for Assassin Creed 1 and said that they removed a ton of content because of the time contraint. Stuff that would have made Assassin creed good.
They ran out of money, they had a functional 5 hours of gameplay and decided to try Steam. If the game is good for 5 hours, then it's good. It's not War Z where the game is not ready to be played and sold as if it is.
Should they explain that they didnt have the money to finish the game how they wanted? Not really. Should they fix the ending so that it's not that random? Sure. Have a cinematic saying something. Basic stuff to say "Brah, we respect your time and we might have the second half of the game if enough people buy this game".
"End of Chapter 1." or something like that could suffice, and they just have to alter the description to say "Chapter 1 of a trilogy" or something.

antitrop said:
I don't see how this is anything like Mass Effect 3. The ending of ME3 wasn't unethical, just... bad.

This, however, is probably one of the most disingenuous releases I've seen on Steam since The War Z. Or that rebranded Dino shooter from earlier this year.
Click to expand...

Did the game work for the 5 hours? Did you have fun for 5 hours? The game not having an ending is really not like the War Z who was literally filled with bugs, and lied in the description on EVERYTHING.
WarZ+the+lies.jpg


You should not compare a game with a shitty ending to War Z. War Z was lies over lies.
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
Rubius said:
It's not really. The game is finished, it's simply not finished the way they intended it. They will make a chapter 2 to continue the story if they get enough money, and if the game is good up to the ending, who care about the ending?

Mass Effect 3 was good and yet had a shitty ending.

Half Life 2 : Episode 2 is 5½ Hours long. And end on a giant cliffhanger that have yet to be explained. Does that mean that Episode 2 is not a complete game because there is no "ending"?
Should they just say "You saved the X, Congraturation"? It's a shitty ending, yeah, but it's not unethical or wrong. Gone Home is 25 seconds long if you play it for a second time and cost 20$.
Click to expand...

Sometimes it's a matter of common sense. Most peoples' common sense would tell them that this isn't a finished game and it's not being advertised or sold as a work in progress.
 
F

Femmeworth

Banned
Famassu said:
Eeeeeeeeexcept some of the examples in this thread are pretty much exactly like what this game has for an ending and the creators have admitted as much. See: Neon Genesis Evangelion (they ran out of money and the final couple of episodes are basically anime equivelant to having a game end abrubtly with a few sentences of description after going through a not-special looking door).
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Evangelion's ending is fine. The low budget just affected how it was expressed, which is nowhere near as bad this game's.
 
R

Rubius

Member
Jobbs said:
Sometimes it's a matter of common sense. Most peoples' common sense would tell them that this isn't a finished game and it's not being advertised or sold as a work in progress.
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But it's not a work on progress. That's the whole game they could afford. A game do not need an ending to be a game. It's not a three arc thing.
Is it shitty ending a game like that? Yes. Should they fix the ending so it's more polished? Yes. But there is nothing wrong with this game from an ethical stand point. Did they said stuff they didnt deliver?

"14 levels in a gritty tale of deep space survival
4 weapons, each with 4 ammo types. Elemental ammo effects that allow you to freeze, dissolve, electrocute or set fire to your enemies.
Four craftable upgrades to customize your weapons.
Collect scrap and alien resources to craft your own tools and health packs.
Invest in the weapons and upgrades you prefer, develop your own combat techniques.
Non-linear exploration and storytelling with complex enemy AI that reacts to the player’s actions and tactics.
Light and darkness are integral parts of gameplay, not just visual touches.
Uncompromisingly real-time lights and shadow casting for spine-tingling moments of pure, darkness-fuelled terror.
Clean, hand-painted textures and custom shading techniques are combined in a unique visual style.
Dynamic soundtrack that adapts to gameplay circumstances."

I did not play the game. Is the game 14 levels long?
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
Rubius said:
Every game is missing content. I had a friend who was beta testing for Assassin Creed 1 and said that they removed a ton of content because of the time contraint. Stuff that would have made Assassin creed good.
They ran out of money, they had a functional 5 hours of gameplay and decided to try Steam. If the game is good for 5 hours, then it's good. It's not War Z where the game is not ready to be played and sold as if it is.
Should they explain that they didnt have the money to finish the game how they wanted? Not really. Should they fix the ending so that it's not that random? Sure. Have a cinematic saying something. Basic stuff to say "Brah, we respect your time and we might have the second half of the game if enough people buy this game".
"End of Chapter 1." or something like that could suffice, and they just have to alter the description to say "Chapter 1 of a trilogy" or something.
Click to expand...

This doesn't need to be repeated, it's a incredibly obvious fact of this medium.

The developers have made it apparent that they couldn't finish or develop their title correctly, this fact coming to light after someone has bought and played the game is a terrible move to pull on the consumer.

They ran out of time and money? The developers themselves feel they released a incomplete game? Don't sell it for $15 and make it apparent what the consumer is getting themselves into.

Your examples don't hold much weight, AAA games have a shit ton of coverage. Indie games en masse don't, not by a long shot.
 
G

Gxgear

Member
It sucks when an indie preys on gamers' nostalgia, then doesn't even deliver once money's in their pockets. All that passion just part like the Red Sea to make way for greed.
 
R

Rubius

Member
2 Slice Toaster said:
What money? This title wasn't crowdfunded.
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Yeah, some people seem to think it's a kickstarter title. It failed kickstarter. They did the game out of there pockets. They did all they could with it and tried the Steam train to see if they could gain a little money out of it.
The game seem good and I might pick it up. I prefer a good game for 5 hours than a meh games for 20 hours.
 
G

Guerilla

Member
Kind of feel bad for the devs. They're obviously talented and didn't have much choice with no money, either they were gonna abandon the game or release it unfinished.
 
2

2 Slice Toaster

Member
Gxgear said:
The money people spent to buy the game off Steam?
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Sorry, I thought you meant that the developer failed to deliver on game promises based on receiving Kickstarter funding. But I would say it sucks when any game you spend money on fails to deliver an experience you don't think is worth it, not just indie titles.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
The game isn't unfinished nor is it an abuse of crowd funding or anything. It's just a finished game with a very disappointing ending.
 
M

megalowho

Member
grandjedi6 said:
The game isn't unfinished nor is it an abuse of crowd funding or anything. It's just a finished game with a very disappointing ending.
Click to expand...
There are literally empty weapon slots for mechanics that are tutorialized but never introduced by the time the player walks through that last door, and during the KS campaign the content that's currently up on Steam was being labeled a demo. Coupled with that amazing ending, I'm not sure what else one would have to do to consider a retail product unfinished.
 
P

PK_man

Banned
I find it funny the developers had the guts to sell this game for 15 bucks despite being incomplete. It just feels like they are trying to pass off an incomplete game as a finished product. I understand they ran out of money, but it's not an excuse. They could've released what they have so far as "part 1" or something at a lower price. Then they should finish the rest of the game as "part 2" if they manage to gather more funds.
 
K

kurahador

Member
grandjedi6 said:
The game isn't unfinished nor is it an abuse of crowd funding or anything. It's just a finished game with a very disappointing ending.
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Really? The video shows you arrived at a door and it goes into a black screen saying everything is going on as usual and then it goes to title screen.
There's not even ending credits present.
 
A

A Sentient Keyboard

Member
They should have just called it 'Dark Matters: Episode I' to indicate that the game was short and the story incomplete. After that they could have decided to either use the profits from episode I to make episode II, or just leave it at that and pull a Half Life 3,
 
S

Slavik81

Member
A Sentient Keyboard said:
They should have just called it 'Dark Matters: Episode I' to indicate that the game was short and the story incomplete. After that they could have decided to either use the profits from episode I to make episode II, or just leave it at that and pull a Half Life 3,
Click to expand...
I think you mean "pull a Sin: Episode 1."
 
O

Of All Trades

Member
A Sentient Keyboard said:
They should have just called it 'Dark Matters: Episode I' to indicate that the game was short and the story incomplete. After that they could have decided to either use the profits from episode I to make episode II, or just leave it at that and pull a Half Life 3,
Click to expand...

You're correct, that's what they should have done, and I suspect that most games that do that don't get nearly as many sales as a "complete" game currently on the main Steam rotating ad-screen. By not doing that they acted unethically at minimum. If your options are to release an unfinished product (without advertising it as such) or not releasing anything then the ethical decision is to not release anything. Just because you put a lot of work into something doesn't entitle you to a return on that work.
 
G

Gxgear

Member
2 Slice Toaster said:
Sorry, I thought you meant that the developer failed to deliver on game promises based on receiving Kickstarter funding. But I would say it sucks when any game you spend money on fails to deliver an experience you don't think is worth it, not just indie titles.
Click to expand...

True, it's more exploitable with indie though; the major published titles gets enough coverage that it's hard to hide your game's deficiencies, and can actually be held accountable (see: Colonial Marines)
 
H

Hero_of_the_Day

Member
Docpan said:
http://youtu.be/oRipzoOPrMs

Skip to 23 mins in.

Endings simply don't get any worse than that. Jesus Christ.
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LOL. Is this legit!? As it was fading, I kept telling myself there was no way 'The End' was about to appear. And then it did. Amazing.

grandjedi6 said:
The game isn't unfinished nor is it an abuse of crowd funding or anything. It's just a finished game with a very disappointing ending.
Click to expand...

I don't see how you can view this as not an unfinished game. It was made to be a demo. Their crowd funding failed, so they put a single screen of text telling the player that the game is over at the end and are asking $15 for it.

This is the first time I have heard of a demo becoming the full retail release in my entire life of gaming.
 
S

spwolf

Member
Of All Trades said:
You're correct, that's what they should have done, and I suspect that most games that do that don't get nearly as many sales as a "complete" game currently on the main Steam rotating ad-screen. By not doing that they acted unethically at minimum. If your options are to release an unfinished product (without advertising it as such) or not releasing anything then the ethical decision is to not release anything. Just because you put a lot of work into something doesn't entitle you to a return on that work.
Click to expand...

i wouldnt call a 5-8 hr game a unfinished game just because it is short... unfinished game means it has bugs, placeholder graphics, features not working, etc, etc.

lenght of the game has nothing to do with finished or not finished.
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
StuBurns said:
Games aren't made like novels, I don't understand.
Click to expand...

This.
It's weird that they couldn't even put together a mock ending, or at least an art or comicbook style finale or something.

Seems like they did this intentionally, either due to the butt-hurt, or to get attention.
 
Freshmaker

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Rubius said:
It's not really. The game is finished, it's simply not finished the way they intended it. They will make a chapter 2 to continue the story if they get enough money, and if the game is good up to the ending, who care about the ending?
Click to expand...

Is this real?
 
O

Of All Trades

Member
spwolf said:
i wouldnt call a 5-8 hr game a unfinished game just because it is short... unfinished game means it has bugs, placeholder graphics, features not working, etc, etc.

lenght of the game has nothing to do with finished or not finished.
Click to expand...

I didn't mention length and the person I quoted qualified it with "story incomplete". Have you read any of the thread or watched the video? I have to assume not because if you had you'd have seen placeholder graphics (what else would that ending be?), tutorial features not implemented in the main game, and the devs stating that the game is unfinished.
 
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