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Anthony Mackie on MCU Crossover with Marvel TV: "It Wouldn't Work"

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W

WhiteRabbitEXE

Member
CocaMantis said:
I mean...they already interconnected the shows and the MCU with several cameos, references and shit.
Click to expand...

I mean, not really? They've thrown in references to establish that the MCU films occurred in the Netflix shows and SHIELD, but the reverse hasn't happened at all. Hell, SHIELD and the Netflix shows don't even connect as far as I'm aware. So no, there's no "interconnection", just some one-sided references. Like, MCU films and the Netlfix shows don't even kind-of-sort-of pretend that Inhumans exist and they're ALL OVER THE FUCKING PLACE in SHIELD. How is Tony tracking down Peter Parker from a YouTube video but not bothering with fucking "Hulk-tier" (according to SHIELD) Quake?

---

Officially, sure, they're all in the same universe, and while yes, it's physically possible for actual crossovers to happen, realistically you'd be best off to consider them completely separate things. The thing is Marvel Studios doesn't give 1/10 of a shit about pretending the shows exist and the odds of that changing after all this time is basically nonexistent. Especially in the case of SHIELD, where the founding idea of the show (COULSON'S ALIVE) is practically blacklisted from the films. And the SHIELD writers seem to be in their own little ABC bubble as far as TV goes.

The TV shows will literally never mean anything to the MCU, and that's pretty much set in stone.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
LionPride said:
A story that takes place way in the future and may as well be part of a seperate trilogy

A one off story about an asshole who curses and chops up shit

And a show that has almost nothing to do with X-Men movies?
Click to expand...

1. So? its Wolverine and Professor X(PG-13 characters) in an R-rated follow up to the X-Men series.
It feels different because of the situation which isn't out of the line for X-Men.
Days of Future past could have even felt a tad similar if the future had more screen time.
It might even be an alternate timeline but they are definitely the same characters and work the same as their prior appearances.
Logan & Xavier could be PG-13 again in X-Men 4 or even in Deadpool 2 and it wouldn't be some weird thing.

2. Deadpool himself doesn't matter but you have 2 costumed X-Men along for it who wouldn't be out of place in a regular X-Men movie.
This makes the movie even better with their clashing tone.

3. X-Men movies in general,
not talking about Legion.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Abilidebob said:
That so many people here consider JJ to be the best or one of the best Marvel Shows just makes me nauseous. Did they watch the entire season or just skipped to every Kilgrave part?
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I mean compared to the rest of the Netflix Marvel shows? Yeah, it's the best one, even with all its flaws. If Luke Cage was only 6 episodes, it might have been the best, but we all know what happened there.
 
D

Dynomutt

Member
firehawk12 said:
I mean compared to the rest of the Netflix Marvel shows? Yeah, it's the best one, even with all its flaws. If Luke Cage was only 6 episodes, it might have been the best, but we all know what happened there.
Click to expand...

Luke-Cage-Diamondback.jpg

Yup.
 
Z

Zero315

Banned
vsaintlo said:
They have not really announced a season 5 yet and with Inhumans some say it may be the last season. Rating seem to be good enough for another but who knows? With that said and scheduling it seems increasingly difficult.
Click to expand...

This isn't true at all. AoS ratings have been tanking hard. At this point it gets beat by The Flash pretty much every Tuesday.
 
F

Fades

Banned
J

jurgen

Member
broncobuster said:
I'm not too familiar with TV ratings, but I think AoS moving to the 10pm slot was expected to get low ratings? Or something like they moved it because it had low ratings at 9pm.
Click to expand...

The stated reason for moving it was that it allowed them to go a little darker and more violent with the stories (e.g. Ghost Rider).
 
L

Lach

Member
I'm currently reading through the Alias Collection (Jessica Jones), and I really want a Marvel short of Jessica Jones (Ritter) and Scott Lang (Rudd) going on a date...
 
M

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
CocaMantis said:
I mean...they already interconnected the shows and the MCU with several cameos, references and shit. A complete crossover could easily be done. The only problem I see (besides legal and bureaucratic stuff) it's the difference in tones between those worlds.
Click to expand...

No, the problem is that the movies have a vastly larger audience than the shows ever will, and so the films referencing the shows makes no sense. You're leaving 70% or more of the audience in the dark by doing that. Tone is a red herring or an excuse. The idea of a full back and forth crossover situation is further complicated by the different timescales of production between the two media, plus the fact that they're run by totally different people in totally different departments of Marvel. Marvel TV has no interest in bowing to Feige's wishes and Feige doesn't care what Marvel TV does because the films are so much bigger in terms of money and reach that only a tiny sliver of the film audience even knows what happens on Luke Cage or Agents of SHIELD.

The Netflix and ABC shows take place in the MCU, but the MCU films don't care and will never acknowledge the shows in any meaningful way. The shows are remoras on the massive MCU shark, and the shark's behavior will not be impacted by them. They might as well be fanfiction, or the old Star Wars EU, where anything Lucas' films did would instantly invalidate anything that came before them. That was almost certainly going to happen with the Inhumans movie, and I still wonder if they cancelled that just to prevent an internal showdown between Marvel TV, who has laid a lot of Inhumans groundwork, and Marvel Studios, who don't give a shit what Marvel TV did with the Inhumans and would likely have made the movie without even reading a synopsis of the TV Inhumans stories.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
MattKeil said:
No, the problem is that the movies have a vastly larger audience than the shows ever will, and so the films referencing the shows makes no sense. You're leaving 70% or more of the audience in the dark by doing that.
Click to expand...

That excuse doesn't work after Civil War,
Ant-Man just shows up in a Captain America movie with zero explanation in either his movie or Captain America's.
 
M

MugiwaraCole

Member
Razgriz-Specter said:
Logan, Deadpool and the X-Men show this isn't an issue at all.
Click to expand...

This is quite literally the worst example you could've possibly come up with. Logan and Deadpool don't even really connect to anything else done by Fox. Certainly not Deadpool lmao you'd have to reach hard as hell to fit Deadpool as it was into the existing X-Men universe, which isn't really much of a universe at all.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
MugiwaraCole said:
This is quite literally the worst example you could've possibly come up with. Logan and Deadpool don't even really connect to anything else done by Fox.
Click to expand...

Have you seen Logan?

Fades said:
Well, his appearance was referenced in both the final scene in Ant-Man and also the post-credits scene which later made it into a full scene in Civil War. "I know a guy." So that's not really the best example.
Click to expand...
ZeoVGM said:
What is there to explain? Falcon met him in the Ant-Man movie. In Civil War, they're trying to think of people they can recruit to help. Falcon thinks of Ant-Man.

That didn't really need extra backstory.
Click to expand...

That still assumes everyone saw Ant-Man which they didn't and the movie works regardless.

You can do literally the same thing with the tv characters,
"We need some help"
Spiderman: "I know of some guys back in New York"

To people that have seen them, great.
To people that haven't is it really all that more of a stretch than Widow, Hawkeye, etc introductions?



However i'd say Coulson and maybe Quake for example have too much tv baggage to just show up.
 
F

Fades

Banned
Razgriz-Specter said:
That excuse doesn't work after Civil War,
Ant-Man just shows up in a Captain America movie with zero explanation in either his movie or Captain America's.
Click to expand...

Well, his appearance was referenced in both the final scene in Ant-Man and also the post-credits scene which later made it into a full scene in Civil War. "I know a guy." So that's not really the best example.
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
Razgriz-Specter said:
That excuse doesn't work after Civil War,
Ant-Man just shows up in a Captain America movie with zero explanation in either his movie or Captain America's.
Click to expand...

What is there to explain? Falcon met him in the Ant-Man movie. In Civil War, they're trying to think of people they can recruit to help. Falcon thinks of Ant-Man.

That didn't really need extra backstory.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
MugiwaraCole said:
Yes. I'll humor you about Logan. It's connects perfectly to the other X-Men films (which still have a pretty convoluted timeline).

How does Deadpool fit in?
Click to expand...

fitting specifically into the timeline is irrelevant,
The tone is completely different yet Colossus especially still fits the typical X-Men PG-13ish tone. He could hop back and forth and it doesn't break or change anything for either movie.
Him and Negasonic could have been literally any of the X-Men and it doesn't bother either sector of the franchise. R-Rated Wolverine could have been in Deadpool but that isn't out of place suddenly for
X-Men, Logan or Deadpool.

Its also how Wolverine can be very tame in regular X-Men and suddenly chopping heads in half.
It isn't weird or anything out of character.

The timeline of X-Men is a mess honestly and doesn't really play into my comparison of the Netflix vs MCU movie tone.
You could take super dark characters like Netflix Daredevil, Punisher, Kingpin, etc and they can work in Spiderman or other MCU roles.
 
E

eizarus

Banned
mayl3 said:
The Green Guy, The Flag Waver, The Incident. Ughhh
Click to expand...
This is so annoying. They tip toe around it as if someone can sue them for being direct about it.

IdreamofHIME said:
But Samuel L Jackson, Jaimie Alexander and Colbie Smulders have all been in Agents of Shield?
Click to expand...
Case closed. Everyone just wants the superheroes to show up. I do too, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been crossovers already.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Always felt this is mostly due to the Hollywood culture. Unlike other film industries in other countries, in the US once you go into movies you don't go "back down" to TV. If you're on TV, they basically make you jump hoops to go to movies.. and once you go movies from TV, you don't go back down to TV, or you start costing a LOT more. Superstars will generally request a pretty hefty check to even show up on a TV show (to not reduce their market value), so it's really hard to even get them in a guest spot, but even those lower on the totem pole, they or their agent will never accept TV scripts again once they make it to movies.

Add in studio drama, where even arms of the same studio hate each other.. complicates things. Hence why we can have a goddamn crossover between competing comics companies (DC vs Marvel) but the chance of seeing a film version of it would basically be "nope".

There even used to be a stigma about doing TV commericals if you were a TV star, but that softened up in the 2000s.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
eizarus said:
This is so annoying. They tip toe around it as if someone can sue them for being direct about it.


Case closed. Everyone just wants the superheroes to show up. I do too, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been crossovers already.
Click to expand...
That point is an example of the reverse,
people want Quake, Daredevil, Punisher, Luke Cage, Kingpin acknowledged on the movie side.

Everyone knows RDJ, etc make too much to ever really appear on tv, or certain characters just can't be done.
However the reverse doesn't have that excuse so people want payoff when Marvel hypes a connected universe.
 
J

Joni

Member
The television shows are a bit like fanfiction. You can throw as much references in there as you want, but the movies still ain't going to acknowledge you. That is how Feige views Perlmutter, as an annoying fanfiction writer he wants nothing to do with.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
eizarus said:
Case closed. Everyone just wants the superheroes to show up. I do too, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been crossovers already.
Click to expand...
They still cared about the show back then and the show at least attempted to be explicitly connected to the movies, even spoiling the plots of them the following week after a release.

To say that the show is somehow deeply connected to the movies is a bit disingenuous though. I can't remember anything about Civil War, but isn't Captain America a fugitive now? Why isn't this new Shield hunting him down? Hell, the Netflix shows are afraid to call out anyone by name and keep referring to the "Green guy" and "the incident".
 
Z

Zen Aku

Member
#sorrynotsorry said:
"It wouldn't work" is clearly not a compelling reason. It absolutely could work.
Click to expand...
Exactly, they managed to bring to life the first cinematic universe of superheroes. If they can do that, they can figure out a way to have crossovers between the movies and the shows.

They already did the hard part.
 
B

Boem

Member
It could work, it's just not worth the time/effort/money on the side of the movie people. The tv shows being able to reference the movies and occasionally use characters from the movies is a big selling point for them. The movies don't need the tv shows. They'll make their money anyway.

It's easy enough to, say, write a Daredevil cameo in one of the movies, even without needing a big, long introduction for him. Nothing's there to stop them. It's just that production wise it's hard to do, with the tv shows being written and shot in the amount of time one of the movies is just in the planning phase.

But if Star Wars can plop in a few easter eggs/cameos to a silly saturday morning cartoon in their big tentpole movie (that's running at the same time, no less), there's no reason Marvel couldn't. You can do it without having to heavily alter their planned storylines for those movies at all.

The real problem is of course the infighting at the top.

And, in the end, to me personally it doesn't really matter. I don't really care for the movies, but I like the Netflix stuff. And even though I love, say, Jessica Jones, seeing her next to the Hulk wouldn't have much added value for me. I can see that being appealing to the fans though.
 
T

The Salt Life

Banned
This boils down to two studios not liking each other no? Shouldn't that mean someone should start acting like an adult to fix this so they stop fucking up what great potential they have?


As far as Falcon factory saying this, idk I would be nervous too if Daredevil showed up and was immediately more liked than my character.
 
B

Boem

Member
Oersted said:
Not enough people, especially outside USA, watch the shows. Thats all there is to it.
Click to expand...

This too.

It's all about that China money.

At the same time - these movies and shows will keep going for a while yet. I can imagine them getting over this fued in, say, 6 years and plop whatever hero has a tv show at that moment in one of the movies. You need a new gimmick at some point.
 
R

ReplacementPelican

Member
Its funny how I care more about Daredevil being in the movies than the reverse. Same goes for Quake.

Its just a shame, I get that there's internal bullshit but the fact that two exceptionally good companies within the same company can't get along - to the benefit of their own franchises - is beyond stupid. It doesn't change anything to have a two minute take of the Street and ABC heroes fighting it out in Infinity War.
 
C

clay_ghost

Member
They can easily fit them in Infinity wars, just show Thanos invading Earth and having the military and Heroes around the world fight back. No context needed, just that there are a lot of other people fighting for Earth outside if the GotG and Avengers. The fans will love it and casuals will understand and appreciate that yes the MCU is a living world that does not only revolves around the Avengers. They can appeal to the Chinese by showing their strong army or something too.
 
F

firelogic

Member
Volimar said:
The MCU, Netflix shows, and Agents of SHIELD are all the same universe. No reason at all there can't be some meaningful crossover there.
Click to expand...

The primary reason is money. The TV division doesn't have the money to even have RDJ on Agents of SHIELD for 10 seconds.
 
M

MugiwaraCole

Member
Razgriz-Specter said:
fitting specifically into the timeline is irrelevant,
The tone is completely different yet Colossus especially still fits the typical X-Men PG-13ish tone. He could hop back and forth and it doesn't break or change anything for either movie.
Him and Negasonic could have been literally any of the X-Men and it doesn't bother either sector of the franchise. R-Rated Wolverine could have been in Deadpool but that isn't out of place suddenly for
X-Men, Logan or Deadpool.

Its also how Wolverine can be very tame in regular X-Men and suddenly chopping heads in half.
It isn't weird or anything out of character.

The timeline of X-Men is a mess honestly and doesn't really play into my comparison of the Netflix vs MCU movie tone.
You could take super dark characters like Netflix Daredevil, Punisher, Kingpin, etc and they can work in Spiderman or other MCU roles.
Click to expand...

Fitting the timeline is relevant because we're talking about the MCU, where everything has to fit neatly into one. I agree that it's possible to have completely different tonal characters fit into one movie/show, as Marvel themselves have already done it before, I just think using Deadpool was a bad example of that.
 
F

Forsaken82

Member
iMax said:
I thought they were separate universes anyway? You never see Avengers tower in any of the Netflix shows.
Click to expand...

Daredevil makes it clear that it's the same universe with news article clippings on the wall of Ben Urich's office.

There's an article of the alien invasion from The Avengers and an article of the fight between hulk and Abomination on the streets of Harlem from The incredible Hulk.

There are also nods to Captain America and Iron Man. However, at this point you'd just assume it's nothing more than easter eggs because the Avengers are otherwise non existent.
 
P

Pics_nao

Member
AoS should've had a huge impact on the greater MCU thanks to Inhumans popping up everywhere. Shame they won't actually work that into anything other than AoS.
 
M

Magwik

Banned
Parshias7 said:
The worst part about this costume is that we had already had this over in Arrow:

arrow_season4_diggle.png


Which everyone knew was awful, and it's like the Luke Cage showrunners thought "how can we make it look even worse?"
Click to expand...
I mean at least it's comic accurate I guess
Diamondback_.jpg
 
M

MagnaderAlpha

Member
See, I wouldn't be against subtle nods to the TV series (mainly Netflix ones) in the movies. Something like one of the characters walking down the street in NYC and a "blink or you'll miss it" moment of Matt and Foggy walking past them, or like with the new Spider-Man, have Aunt May listening to Trish Walker's radio show. I'd rather that than expect MORE movie characters to cameo in the TV series. I do like how there is world-wide/universal level and street level with the movies and a lot of the TV series (mainly the Netflix ones). Never seen Agents of SHIELD, but did like Agent Carter (had that retro adventure feel, reminded me of something that could've come out in the early-mid 90s).

It is interesting to see two different perspectives of what is going on in this world, from a more "over the top" view of high power and world-wide(and galactic) threats, as well as a more "low key", amidst the people on the street and more of an intertwined corrupt criminal element that is affecting everyday lives.
 
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