It was not wrong in the sense that Turn10 developer said it and was pretty clear. Is not wrong because the demo has problems moving threads between cores and sometimes this produces stuttering. What seems not clear is the excuse they want to use about this problem.
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Turn 10 Confirms That Forza Motorsport 7 Intentionally Runs Mostly on One Core
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It was not wrong in the sense that Turn10 developer said it and was pretty clear. Is not wrong because the demo has problems moving threads between cores and sometimes this produces stuttering. What seems not clear is the excuse they want to use about this problem.
Dictator93
Member
Nah that aint the reason. And if that is the reason, then it makes no sense as no other dev has that problem affecting the use of multcore.
LostDonkey
Member
I played all three scenarios on the demo and had no problems at all. 6700k 1070 16gb ddr4.
It ran perfectly. Sad to hear people are having stuttering.
It ran perfectly. Sad to hear people are having stuttering.
That's nothing compared to how it's running on my system, which is an R7-1700X running at 3.9GHz, 32GB of 2666MT/s DDR4, a 1TB Samsung 960 Evo NVME SSD, and a GTX 1070 Strix OC.
This is how the game runs for me by default.
Look at how bad the Frametime and GPU usage graphs are, and it's just constantly stuttering very badly.
And this is with the tweaks I posted earlier, to force the CPU usage to be more evenly distributed.
Much smoother Frametime and GPU usage graphs - though there are still places on the tracks that always stutter.
I've yet to find a good solution for recording game footage on a PC directly that doesn't seem to add some amount of stutter to the video, so go by the frametime graph as an indicator of smoothness more than the clip.
Other than resolution, the game is running at the lowest possible settings.
I think it's interesting that people with Intel systems are seeing the game putting most of the workload on a single thread, while my Ryzen system has two threads running at or near 100% usage.
I wonder if the game changes what it's doing when it has more than a certain number of threads available to it.
Well now I'm confused.
Do you see one or two threads hitting 100% usage?
With a 100Hz display, my only options are 30 FPS, 60 FPS, and "Dynamic" which caps it to 1/3 the refresh rate - 33 FPS.
Dynamic also forces V-Sync on, which means no G-Sync, so the only choice I have is to use the 60 FPS No V-Sync option. These performance issues are happening with or without G-Sync though, it just helps make things a little smoother after the tweaks I mentioned.
Until we get some benchmarks out of the final release, we can't know for certain... But, that demo ran so poorly on my machine (i7 4770K), it was like going back to FH3 day 1.
Super disappointing they're repeating the same mistake a third time in as many years. Why spend up front when you can wait for a patch in 9 months that addresses the issue and pay a bunch less for the privilege?
Super disappointing they're repeating the same mistake a third time in as many years. Why spend up front when you can wait for a patch in 9 months that addresses the issue and pay a bunch less for the privilege?
MaxVarEmreis
Member
It is joke about Wargaming and their game Word of Tanks (logo on Core 0). Back then, they use only one core to run game (I don't known if its a lot better now
).
Md Ray
Member
I don't think the problem with this game is Core 0 being maxed out. The real issue that's causing the stutters, in my opinion from my own tests, is the system RAM getting maxed out, even when you run it at 720p, lowest possible settings with AA & AF set to off. I got a GTX 970/i5-3330/8GB setup. Here's the screenshot:
As you can see the drop in frame-rate to 52fps was actually a stutter here. The CPU usage seems fine, GPU is barely being utilised. VRAM is almost full, but still acceptable. The only explanation is the 8GB RAM being full here. And no, nothing was running in the background except for Forza 7. I ran the game after doing a fresh bootup, and the RAM usage after a fresh bootup is usually 1-2GB leaving 7-6GB empty.
Another screenshot just to show that Core 0 is never always at 100% as people seem to think, and I'm certain that the CPU isn't the cause for stutters.
Have you also noticed heavy system RAM usage with this game? Let me know what you all think.
As you can see the drop in frame-rate to 52fps was actually a stutter here. The CPU usage seems fine, GPU is barely being utilised. VRAM is almost full, but still acceptable. The only explanation is the 8GB RAM being full here. And no, nothing was running in the background except for Forza 7. I ran the game after doing a fresh bootup, and the RAM usage after a fresh bootup is usually 1-2GB leaving 7-6GB empty.
Another screenshot just to show that Core 0 is never always at 100% as people seem to think, and I'm certain that the CPU isn't the cause for stutters.
Have you also noticed heavy system RAM usage with this game? Let me know what you all think.
I don't think the problem with this game is Core 0 being maxed out. The real issue that's causing the stutters, in my opinion from my own tests, is the system RAM getting maxed out, even when you run it at 720p, lowest possible settings with AA & AF set to off. I got a GTX 970/i5-3330/8GB setup. Here's the screenshot:
As you can see the drop in frame-rate to 52fps was actually a stutter here. The CPU usage seems fine, GPU is barely being utilised. VRAM is almost full, but still acceptable. The only explanation is the 8GB RAM being full here. And no, nothing was running in the background except for Forza 7. I ran the game after doing a fresh bootup, and the RAM usage after a fresh bootup is usually 1-2GB leaving 7-6GB empty.
Another screenshot just to show that Core 0 is never always at 100% as people seem to think, and I'm certain that the CPU isn't the cause for stutters.
Have you also noticed heavy system RAM usage with this game? Let me know what you all think.
While it might not be that case for your CPU, on my 5820k my core 3 is absolutely pegged at 100% all the time and core 0 sits at around 90%. The other 10 fluctuate a lot between 10 and 50%. They are not unused, but most of the time the workload could be much more spread out.
Md Ray
Member
Do you get stutters in this game despite running it on that monstrous CPU? :O
Have you checked system RAM usage?
Total ram usage was at 11-12GB out of my 16. I only get minor stutters, I'm mostly disappointed I seem to be locked to 82fps because the game locks the framerate to half my refresh rate according to a previous poster. And that would explain why I can't get my GPU to work harder than it does with like a third of the power going completely unused.
It's certainly possible that the game doesn't run well if you only have 8GB of RAM, but that's not the issue for me.
Running out of memory will cause bad stuttering for games if it has to page to disk, but I have 32GB of RAM and not even half of it was being used.
Low GPU usage means that it either doesn't have any more work to do; e.g. the game has hit its framerate target, or something else is causing the GPU to be starved; either the CPU or memory.
Typically what you see is that an under-spec or under-utilized CPU will cause GPU usage to be low. And not having enough memory bandwidth (or perhaps just enough memory) can cause the CPU to be under-utilized and never hit 100% even when it's currently starving the GPU.
In the case of Forza, poor CPU optimization; i.e. running everything on two main threads instead of spreading out the workload, is causing the performance issues for me. For you, you may be hitting memory-related issues first.
dr_rus
Member
It's not that I'm arguing, more like thinking aloud.
Md Ray
Member
This totally makes sense. Thanks.
nismopower
Member
Weird thing with my gpu is that its almost always at 100% but temps are low for this card.
I have an rx 480 4gb and clocked it at 1400mhz.
When i played the beta of destiny it would reach around 80 degrees. And also be ar 100% usage.
I. Fm7 its at 100% but only 60 degrees. And it will not get hotter.
Thats a weird thing because 100% is 100% right?
I have an rx 480 4gb and clocked it at 1400mhz.
When i played the beta of destiny it would reach around 80 degrees. And also be ar 100% usage.
I. Fm7 its at 100% but only 60 degrees. And it will not get hotter.
Thats a weird thing because 100% is 100% right?
Not always. It depends on what resources of the GPU the game is using. You can easily get large variances in power consumption while still using the GPU 100% (see GPU power viruses like FurMark). Also it should be noted that these metrics are also being polled in comparatively long intervals.
So here's my numbers for being in the main menu, just 4K with 100% resolution scaling
And here's my performance with everything maxed at 4K, no MSAA but resolution scaling at 200%. But at least it finally got my GPU to run at 90+% because it wasn't hitting the 82fps cap for me.
That core 4 is working overtime no matter what. Their statement about the game using as many cores as you have doesn't really matter when only 2 of them actually do 90% of the work and a lot of the rest almost just idles a lot of the time.
And here's my performance with everything maxed at 4K, no MSAA but resolution scaling at 200%. But at least it finally got my GPU to run at 90+% because it wasn't hitting the 82fps cap for me.
That core 4 is working overtime no matter what. Their statement about the game using as many cores as you have doesn't really matter when only 2 of them actually do 90% of the work and a lot of the rest almost just idles a lot of the time.
Have you tried what I suggested with enabling Game Mode, and then setting the process affinity to exclude the first 25% of your cores/threads? (or possibly the first 4 in your case)
I'm curious to know if it helps anyone else.
And it looks like it's probably >8 threads where the game starts loading up two cores rather than one.
Bolivar687
Banned
We purposefully did not target the highest core count.
It's more of a broad entertainment play.
It's more of a broad entertainment play.
Will give it a go and see how it works out for me.
Edit: Yeah, the cores allocated to the game now looks much more like what I would expect it to do during gameplay. No one core is maxed and the load is fairly evenly spread out. Also did not experience any stutter during my race.
Now there's just the other issue of the game locking the game to half my refresh rate so I can't go above 82fps (which I still managed to hit at 4K with 200% scaling, is that scaling even working?
).An example of how one multithreading design can add input latency if anyone is still curious is the the Naught Dog engine design talk from GDC. If you watch (Harsh Realization to How? / Engine Pipeline - Feed Forward / Frame Centric Design) in https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1022186/Parallelizing-the-Naughty-Dog-Engine you see they went from about 40 FPS to 60 FPS but instead of 1 frame now it takes 2+ frames to go from input to render.
Silent Hill
Banned
Ok so if its not running on 1 core then whats causing these peformance issues. ?
Maintenance
Member
Updated the first post with the new PR response.
Will give it a go and see how it works out for me.
Edit: Yeah, the cores allocated to the game now looks much more like what I would expect it to do during gameplay. No one core is maxed and the load is fairly evenly spread out. Also did not experience any stutter during my race.
Now there's just the other issue of the game locking the game to half my refresh rate so I can't go above 82fps (which I still managed to hit at 4K with 200% scaling, is that scaling even working?
I don't think the scaling is working. 8K should hurt your system. I am going to run the game at 8K on my workstation when I get home in about an hour to see how hard it hits my Titan Xp
Slackbladder
Member
Off topic but yes, it does. However in my experience the newest nvidia driver breaks the HDR in the game. However it may have been when installing the driver it reset my colour options to something that does not work with HDR. But I'm suspicious all the same.
I do notice more GPU usage when I increase res scaling and the menu is absolutely worse with 200% over 100% so something is up.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Search "Morning of Owl R16 Korea". I don't know which battle this GIF is from though, maybe Morning of Owl vs Body Carnival.
Ah, right, haha.
Stoffinator
Member
I'm getting lots of lag on the Xbox One version too on the menu's. Sometimes it feels like it freezes than all of a sudden catches up and moves through the menu's really fast.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
i have the exact same specs as you. on the latest drivers. menus stuttering/drop heavily. in races it's 60fps most of the time but there are occasionally stutters and the game will often freeze completely at times.
i'm disappointed because the game looks and plays great to me but it's ridiculous performance wise.
It does something. Turning it back down to 100% with resolution set at 4K my GPU hovers around 60% only instead of 95%. But I'm not 100% sure I'm actually getting that resolution. I would prefer if you had some simple way of disabling all dynamic stuff with a simple toggle because I currently don't trust the settings menu.
This is the game running at 8K on an Overclocked Titan Xp with an overclocked i7 6850K
Here is a 7680x 4320 screenshot. MSAA is off and scaling is at 100.
It is very taxing. But surprisingly it is getting close to 30 FPS.
People claiming to run this game at 8K60 had me scratching my head. No way in hell unless they are from the future or running multiple GPUs.
Here is a 7680x 4320 screenshot. MSAA is off and scaling is at 100.
It is very taxing. But surprisingly it is getting close to 30 FPS.
People claiming to run this game at 8K60 had me scratching my head. No way in hell unless they are from the future or running multiple GPUs.
Dictator93
Member
What is up with that actually... you are only seeing 58% GPU usage there. YOu should be in the 40s with proper utilisation of the GPU.
And this is why I don't trust the settings menu, because the settings I use should be the same as yours just that I use scaling and you don't. But that's not the case and there's not apparently nothing I can do to take full control over the settings in the game.
Alright, here's the highest resolution I can get via DSR settings and then setting my resolution on the desktop and using that in the game. 5120x2880 with 100% scaling in the game. That resolution is at least still a locked 82FPS with plenty of GPU power to spare.
Edit: Alright, went through the effort of editing my DSR resolutions and added 8K. Now the game ran at a proper 8K and that I am completely sure of now. Afterburner bugged out and didn't show the VRAM, the GPU also clocked down a bit and ran slower than it did with 5120x2880 but I still managed to stay above 60fps on the truck track. Did run into a sliiiight problem though, the ground just randomly disappearing and popping back in. But the performance was there. Original screen this was cropped from. https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4337/37015628710_928b54240c_o.png
I had to turn down all the quality settings, but my GTX 1070 can run the game at a mostly solid 8K60 (7680x4320 @ 100% scale) and when it's dropping frames, it's not due to GPU usage. The GPU side of things doesn't seem to be very demanding at all.
Your screenshot shows something similar. Looks like it could be CPU usage holding back your GPU since it's only at 58% load there.
Since it seemed to work for Xyber (thanks for testing it!), I'd suggest that you also try enabling Game Mode and then setting the process affinity to disable Forza 7 on the first 25% of your cores, to try and force it to distribute the CPU load more evenly instead of loading up one or two threads to 100%.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
tried 4k with 200% scaling with MSAA off and i am getting 50fps. Something is wrong for you?
Quote from Chris Tector, Dev at T10
So it seems to be miscommunication, not actually intentional.
OP/Title should be updated
http://wccftech.com/turn-10-forza-motorsport-7-one-core/
So it seems to be miscommunication, not actually intentional.
OP/Title should be updated
http://wccftech.com/turn-10-forza-motorsport-7-one-core/
But what he says is somewhat irrelevant when the game still pretty much only uses 1 or 2 cores (and max them out) for a lot of people unless you manually disable some cores for the process. What he should've said was that it's currently not working as it should and a fix is hopefully on the way. Because this shit has been the same for the past 2 games now. The game should not just suddenly spread the workload to all cores and drastically reduce stuttering if you disable some of them for the process.
Maintenance
Member
Let's play "find the poster who did not read the OP"
Silent Hill
Banned
I don't think the problem with this game is Core 0 being maxed out. The real issue that's causing the stutters, in my opinion from my own tests, is the system RAM getting maxed out, even when you run it at 720p, lowest possible settings with AA & AF set to off. I got a GTX 970/i5-3330/8GB setup. Here's the screenshot:
As you can see the drop in frame-rate to 52fps was actually a stutter here. The CPU usage seems fine, GPU is barely being utilised. VRAM is almost full, but still acceptable. The only explanation is the 8GB RAM being full here. And no, nothing was running in the background except for Forza 7. I ran the game after doing a fresh bootup, and the RAM usage after a fresh bootup is usually 1-2GB leaving 7-6GB empty.
Another screenshot just to show that Core 0 is never always at 100% as people seem to think, and I'm certain that the CPU isn't the cause for stutters.
Have you also noticed heavy system RAM usage with this game? Let me know what you all think.
I have 16gb so im not so sure man
nkarafo
Member
It does?
I see mini-freezes that last up to 3 seconds on my 1060 6GB. It runs well otherwise, steady 60, no microstutters. But once or twice i see those freezes. I have 16GB RAM.
Dictator93
Member
It cannot possibly do that on xb1 or xb1x... it would never get to 60 on console with the core spread we see on PC. That one hyper loaded thread would tank the framerate :/
dr_rus
Member
Miscommunication in what exactly? The game clearly peak one core usage here and for many other people as well. And I certainly wouldn't say that it "uses as many cores as are available" as on my 6C/12T CPU about half of threads are not used by FM7 demo at all.
Silent Hill
Banned
Didnt the same thing happen in fh3? It was later fixed in a patch. Unless they fix this for the release build then they are not getting any money from me.
I don't think that's what the turn 10 guy was talking about.
For burnout they were talking about pipelining rendering and simulation (basically rendering frame n and sim for n+ simultaneously).
I don't think the problem with this game is Core 0 being maxed out. The real issue that's causing the stutters, in my opinion from my own tests, is the system RAM getting maxed out, even when you run it at 720p, lowest possible settings with AA & AF set to off. I got a GTX 970/i5-3330/8GB setup. Here's the screenshot:
As you can see the drop in frame-rate to 52fps was actually a stutter here. The CPU usage seems fine, GPU is barely being utilised. VRAM is almost full, but still acceptable. The only explanation is the 8GB RAM being full here. And no, nothing was running in the background except for Forza 7. I ran the game after doing a fresh bootup, and the RAM usage after a fresh bootup is usually 1-2GB leaving 7-6GB empty.
Another screenshot just to show that Core 0 is never always at 100% as people seem to think, and I'm certain that the CPU isn't the cause for stutters.
Have you also noticed heavy system RAM usage with this game? Let me know what you all think.
What software shows you this info btw? RivaTuner + Afterburner?
Xcell Miguel
Gold Member
The way I understand it is that this 100% core does some things related to input (and core gameplay/physics ?), but it's light enough to not use 100% of the core, but they need to "fill" the core so it does not throttle down.
On PC and consoles CPU cores can have independent speeds, and at different speed some computations can have different latency. For exemple my CPU cores goes from 1.3 GHz to 4.4 GHz, ensuring that the core doing input things does it at full speed might be better regarding latency.
That way on console it can still run at 60 FPS if most of the 100% core is just "filling it with empty loops" to ensure the code it executes always get executed at the same speed.
It would be interesting to see if the game's engine detects if the cores can throttle down or stay at forced speed, and see if it still put a CPU core to 100%.
I think the stutter has nothing to do with that, but as the 100% core is something that can be seen easily people just assume it's the problem even if it's not.
Yesterday I was at my friend's house and I could see how the demo froze/stutter totally randomly without having CPU nor GPU usage spikes, like if it was some streaming issues, but the game runs on an SSD (and so is the system). There was nothing we could do to avoid it, and it was different on every try, just random.