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How do you want Nintendo to evolve top down Zelda?

H

Hermii

Member
A link between worlds came out exactly 4 years ago. That game was an appetiser to some of the design concepts that was vastly expanded upon in BOTW like a less linear structure and shorter tutorial.

One of the big reasons Nintendo came out with a hybrid system, is to consolidate their former handheld and home console teams. Eiji Aonuma has said there is a definite possibility of a top down Zelda from switch and that he wants the team to take a "evolved 2d style approach" to the development. If you look at earlier pre announcement teases from Aonuma, this is as close as you can get to a confirmation that the game does indeed exist, and an announcement probably isn't all that far away.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...n-the-switch-is-definitely-a-possibility.aspx

Do you think this will be a completely rethinking of the conventions of 2d Zelda? What should they keep? What should they change? How should they incorporate the lessons from BOTW?

bp112_1358992383.png


I think it is likely this game will try to address the "playing by yourself" point from this slide and incorporate some kind of multiplayer.
 
K

Kamek Koopa

Member
That "Playing by yourself" thing was obviously pointing towards Trifore Heroes, which came a year after the statement, if I'm not wrong.
 
Spukc

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
Open world like botw.
But big dungeons.
Speedrun heavy
Loads of secrets

Online mp
 
F

FStubbs

Member
The biggest lesson is - making the overworld HUGE.

I'd say the other thing is leave the current set up of Hyrule behind and make a brand new place. Oddly they did this with Spirit Tracks.
 
F

Forward

Member
DaleinCalgary said:
I don't think I'd spend more than $10 on a top down Zelda.
Click to expand...

Le Lulz.

A Link to the Past is the best Zelda game ever made. It is one of the best games of all time. None of the 3D ones even come close. If Nintendo can make another top down Zelda that is NOT a watered-down, massively inferior, Babby's First SNES Cart iteration of ALttP, then perhaps there is hope for a new king of the hill for the genre. Until then, the crown is firmly in the Past.
 
Velius

Velius

Banned
Honestly I think A Link Between Worlds is one of the best games I've played in a long time. They just got everything so right.
 
B

BigBrotherT

Neo Member
Top-down Zelda overworlds are a bit of a drag to navigate for me - I'd prefer they streamline it by giving it a Paper Mario: Color Splash type levels - basically have a branching map for you to select levels from.

This would allow the focus to be on dungeons and towns - and not necessarily the travel in between. I think it would also allow for greater replayability / re-traversal of dungeons to open new paths and secrets once you have acquired new skills and items.

So yeah, basically I'd like something like: A Link to the Past x Four Swords Adventure x Paper Mario Color Splash
 
O

Ocirus

Member
I'd like a proper couch co-op Zelda game. Triforce Heroes is a joke, and while Four Sword Adventure is great it certainly takes a lot to set up.
 
X

Xenobureido

Banned
Everything I love about Zelda-games significantly benefits from being 3d, so I'd hope Nintendo either stops wasting ressources on 2d-Zelda games or hands those over to 3rd-parties or small internal beginner employees.
 
Rhetorical Question

Rhetorical Question

Member
I'd love to see another 2D Zelda since I liked the charm of ALBW a lot (never finished LttP). I'd like to see some well designed dungeons and especially some true hidden locations in the overworld you can find/explore.
 
M

mrback

Member
I absolutely loved ALBW & would pay top dollar for another 2d zelda in similar vain. Hope something is announced at E3 for Switch fingers crossed.
 
D

Darhkwing

Member
Yes, I would love another 2d Zelda. I loved A Link Between Worlds. One of the best Zelda games out there.

why does every game need to be so long? 15 hours was a decent length and i never got bored.
 
T

Timexy

Neo Member
mrback said:
I absolutely loved ALBW & would pay top dollar for another 2d zelda in similar vain. Hope something is announced at E3 for Switch fingers crossed.
Click to expand...

This.

I'm on the minority here but disliked BotW a lot. It felt like it had this gigantic, empty world, with lots of "icons to clean" like an Ubisoft game. Plus that breaking gear shit. The game simply wasn't for me.
 
U

ubiblu

Member
I am a diehard Zelda fan and own enough zelda-related paraphernalia to sink a ship, but I’ve never found LttP or LBW to be anything more than just really good; hardly genre-defining masterpieces. The DS/GBC games and Minish Cap were okay, but Links Awakening is pretty boring.

The essence of Zelda is totally the 3D games to me. I have so little interest in the top-down iterations that I only buy them for something to pass the time. BotW is GOAT, and Ocarina isn’t far behind.

And I chalk all that down to when I started with the series: the N64. Without having owned a NES/SNES growing up, I find it impossible to go back and play a 10-20 year old game and derive the same joy some of you clearly did at the time when you were in your formative child-teenage years.

Nostalgia is so strong on GAF that it makes most discussion descend into petty bickering over subjective memories. Personally, I hope they leave the top-down genre to die, but again, I didn’t grow up with them enough to care.
 
C

Cpt Lmao

Member
Hermii said:
A link between worlds came out exactly 4 years ago. That game was an appetiser to some of the design concepts that was vastly expanded upon in BOTW like a less linear structure and shorter tutorial.

One of the big reasons Nintendo came out with a hybrid system, is to consolidate their former handheld and home console teams. Eiji Aonuma has said there is a definite possibility of a top down Zelda from switch and that he wants the team to take a "evolved 2d style approach" to the development. If you look at earlier pre announcement teases from Aonuma, this is as close as you can get to a confirmation that the game does indeed exist, and an announcement probably isn't all that far away.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...n-the-switch-is-definitely-a-possibility.aspx

Do you think this will be a completely rethinking of the conventions of 2d Zelda? What should they keep? What should they change? How should they incorporate the lessons from BOTW?

bp112_1358992383.png


I think it is likely this game will try to address the "playing by yourself" point from this slide and incorporate some kind of multiplayer.
Click to expand...

ALBW was a precursor to Breath of the Wild, it was the game that first brought revolutionary changes to the series. You're mistaken that there'll be dramatic reshifts going forward, because they have already happened.
 
H

Hermii

Member
Cpt Lmao said:
ALBW was a precursor to Breath of the Wild, it was the game that first brought revolutionary changes to the series. You're mistaken that there'll be dramatic reshifts going forward, because they have already happened.
Click to expand...
This will be the first top down game in the series since the snes created with console class power (I know that’s debatable but let’s not derail. It’s more than a generational inchrease from 3ds). It’s also one that’s post botw. I think that willl definitely influence the game in major ways.
 
Airola

Airola

Member
ubiblu said:
Nostalgia is so strong on GAF that it makes most discussion descend into petty bickering over subjective memories. Personally, I hope they leave the top-down genre to die, but again, I didn't grow up with them enough to care.
Click to expand...

Nah, I think reducing things being about nostalgia is more hurtful to discussion.

I mean, even if people like something they have grown with they most often still have specific reasons that made the thing be enjoyable. Very often people have an idea about what are the things in those games that worked then and that could still work now.

And if we are going to claim only nostalgia makes people like older things we should also look at how much the same nostalgia is actually affecting to those who don't like the old things. Like in case with you, we could say you only like this certain 3D style because you grew playing that kind of games. And even for those who played the 2D games but can't anymore play them we could say they are just too nostalgic about the change from 2D to 3D.

The only way to not bring nostalgia to the discussion is if the player for some reason only plays modern games and as soon as something gets a bit too old they lose any and all interest in those games. And I think that's way more rare in gamers.

So for those reasons I think most claims about nostalgia being the reason people like things are completely fruitless and bring nothing to the discussion.

Besides, 2D vs 3D isn't really about old vs new.

It is just about what a person can see and do in a game and really comes down to game design. You just can't make the same things in 3D that you can in 2D and vice versa. For some it just isn't that enjoyable to only see forwards and explore things and complete puzzles by looking around and moving the camera. Some people just get more enjoyment out of having this clear view on the surroundings around the player character. Like for example with Zelda 1 the way the game goes on screen by screen and doesn't scroll when moving around is an experience of its own and simply can't ever be replicated by making the game be 3D - and it's not even the same if the game is still 2D but the screen scrolls along the player. It's an unique experience to have each screen basically be a "level" of it's own when you can think of the outer edges of the screen as places to get to other levels and within each screen there are pathways to take and certain monsters to avoid or kill.

Enjoying something like that doesn't require nostalgia at all. All it requires is a mind that just happens to get enjoyment out of gameplay like that.

Some people just can get enjoyment out of board games like Snakes & Ladders or Monopoly and some people prefer to play Mouse Trap or other games with a more three dimensional game board. If one of them is because of nostalgia, then the others are too. But most likely people just like a certain style because of certain reasons other than just nostalgia.
 
Sleepydays

Sleepydays

Banned
Link Between Worlds has been one of of the best games I've played through this year. BOTW didn't do much for me, sadly. I don't know that top-down Zelda is in particular need of an evolution.
 
AdmiralMikey

AdmiralMikey

Member
Sleepydays said:
Link Between Worlds has been one of of the best games I've played through this year. BOTW didn't do much for me, sadly. I don't know that top-down Zelda is in particular need of an evolution.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat as you are. A Link Between Worlds is one of my favorites in the series and I think BOTW is among the worst. I think ALBW did enough tweaking to the formula to refresh the series without completely throwing the rulebook out the window and BOTW changed so much that it didn't even feel like a Zelda game to me.

If you were to ask me how I'd "evolve" from ALBW, I really wouldn't change much. Maybe replace the rental house for items with a more creative way of finding the items around the world while still allowing you to tackle dungeons in almost any order, and a completely new world map is definitely needed rather than recycling an old one like they did with ALBW, but otherwise stay the course.
 
mario_O

mario_O

Member
DaleinCalgary said:
I don't think I'd spend more than $10 on a top down Zelda.
Click to expand...

That was one of my problems with ALBW. Asking 50 euros for a top/down game, that borrowed many of its assets from A Link To The Past, felt like a robbery. Still, I bought it. The other problems were the total lack of a chanllenge and the rent house. I hope next 2D Zelda feels more fresh, at least the world, and removes the rent house. I love discovering items in the dungeons.
 
xviper

xviper

Member
BOTW is in my opinion the best nintendo game ever made and one of the greatest games of all time

but i still want a traditional Zelda game AND Botw 2

this situation is similar to what happened with Resident evil series with RE4

maybe the studio could divide into 2 teams, 1 works on traditional Zelda games and the other works on Botw-like Zelda games

each gen of a Nintendo console could have 2 Zelda games of the 2 types

i know none of this is gonna happen, but one can only dream
 
Fbh

Fbh

Member
Honestly ... Don't ?

I really liked BOTW and it's easily my favorite 3D Zelda. But I would still like to get the traditional Zelda experience every now and then.

Go crazy with the art direction or introduce some new powers or gear that makes bit changes in how you interact with the world. But I don't think it needs a complete change to the core of the experience as BoTW was
 
R

RootCause

Member
Fbh said:
Honestly ... Don't ?

I really liked BOTW and it's easily my favorite 3D Zelda. But I would still like to get the traditional Zelda experience every now and then.

Go crazy with the art direction or introduce some new powers or gear that makes bit changes in how you interact with the world. But I don't think it needs a complete change to the core of the experience as BoTW was
Click to expand...
I get where you're coming from, but it wouldn't hurt if it took some things from BOTW. Like unique gear/weapons that you can acquire by exploring. Combat could use a tune up too.
 
M

McDuck

Neo Member
It should have a beautifully colored, tightly constructed little world with tons of secrets, a new villain, some special gimmick that feels fresh and fun, and a good difficulty curve. Think Minish Cap with a little more difficulty.

BotW is one of the greatest games of all times, but its approach should be the template for 3D Zelda going forward, not 2D.
 
H

Hilarion

Member
I'd be 5/5 on my top five Zelda games being 2D ones. I've never played a 3D Zelda title that remotely competes with something like Minish Cap or Oracle of Seasons or Link to the Past.

I don't really need them to mess with the formula at all, I just need them to keep making them.

I've played literally every single 3D Zelda and none of them have done anything for me compared to the 2D ones.
 
T

TheSpaceBetween

Member
jufonuk said:
ALBW is amazing. Make more of it.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. I'll miss the 3D effect though. But yeah, just more of it... A new game in a new setting. Get Link out of Hyrule again.

Honestly, I wish BotW would have taken more queues from ALBW. ALBW is open, but smaller and extremely dense. BotW is open, but extremely sparse and empty.
 
chemicals

chemicals

Member
They should make a new game with Link To The Past graphics. The 16 bit looking RPG is huge with the kids these days.
 
R

Redmond Barry

Neo Member
I believe that in an attempt to cater to as many fans as possible, they will rotate between two types of games.

Have the big-budget third-person game build upon and refine the new-found formula that BOTW has made.

Have the small-budget top-down game venture into new territory: quirky and strange storylines, new characters/no recurring characters, never-before-seen gameplay mechanics, etc.

I think I might be down for something like the above. In essence, no evolution of top down Zelda because it is constantly experimenting.
 
C

cartman414

Member
Forward said:
Le Lulz.

A Link to the Past is the best Zelda game ever made. It is one of the best games of all time. None of the 3D ones even come close. If Nintendo can make another top down Zelda that is NOT a watered-down, massively inferior, Babby's First SNES Cart iteration of ALttP, then perhaps there is hope for a new king of the hill for the genre. Until then, the crown is firmly in the Past.
Click to expand...

I felt Link's Awakening was superior to LttP.

All of the other successors were of varying quality but none felt like a "baby's first" LttP.

BigBrotherT said:
Top-down Zelda overworlds are a bit of a drag to navigate for me - I'd prefer they streamline it by giving it a Paper Mario: Color Splash type levels - basically have a branching map for you to select levels from.

This would allow the focus to be on dungeons and towns - and not necessarily the travel in between. I think it would also allow for greater replayability / re-traversal of dungeons to open new paths and secrets once you have acquired new skills and items.

So yeah, basically I'd like something like: A Link to the Past x Four Swords Adventure x Paper Mario Color Splash
Click to expand...

If you find navigation in top down Zeldas boring, stay far, far away from the prior 3d games. Except maybe Majora's Mask.

ubiblu said:
I am a diehard Zelda fan and own enough zelda-related paraphernalia to sink a ship, but I've never found LttP or LBW to be anything more than just really good; hardly genre-defining masterpieces. The DS/GBC games and Minish Cap were okay, but Links Awakening is pretty boring.

The essence of Zelda is totally the 3D games to me. I have so little interest in the top-down iterations that I only buy them for something to pass the time. BotW is GOAT, and Ocarina isn't far behind.

And I chalk all that down to when I started with the series: the N64. Without having owned a NES/SNES growing up, I find it impossible to go back and play a 10-20 year old game and derive the same joy some of you clearly did at the time when you were in your formative child-teenage years.

Nostalgia is so strong on GAF that it makes most discussion descend into petty bickering over subjective memories. Personally, I hope they leave the top-down genre to die, but again, I didn't grow up with them enough to care.
Click to expand...

I'm the opposite. 2d Zelda is much more swift and to the point than 3d Zelda in general, which had for too long been laden with longer to navigate claptrap.

Also, there needs to be a rebirth of Zelda II. Yoshiaki Koizumi once prototyped such a thing after all.
 
JimboJones

JimboJones

Member
I don't think they really need to evolve it drastically, the 2D stuff never felt that stale and it would be nice to keep a more traditional Zelda around especially if there going with huge open world's all the time with 3d Zelda's.
Open world stuff really burns me out after a while, still haven't managed to finish BoTW.
 
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