Is the Ryan = Comstock based off anything? Apart from being antagonists in each game, they're very dissimilar.
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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
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Is the Ryan = Comstock based off anything? Apart from being antagonists in each game, they're very dissimilar.
Come on. He's as much Comstock as Rapture is Colombia. The game doesn't need to spell it out.
I guess it depends on your perspective. Look at as purely an issue of "behind this door, you have comstock. behind this door, you have ryan", yeah, I can see that. They serve similar purposes thematically in each game. Try to look at in a purely multiverse scenario, I don't see Ryan is Comstock, just like I don't see Fontaine as Fitzroy (even though both lead rebellions against the town's creator and used the protagonist until they betrayed him).
The atheist, anti-religion dude with the hard on for the drive and will of the individual over any sort of communal systems and the hyper religious cult leader?
The whole multi-verse thing doesn't mean everything is the same. There's always a lighthouse, there's always a city, there's always 'a man'.. and apparently there's always a child to kill that man :/
Ryan and Rapture/ Comstock and Columbia are near bizarro versions of each other- just because individuals play certain roles in a mutli-dimensional fairytale does not mean they have anything to do with each other whatsoever.
In BioShock, that's exactly what it means, actually. They don't have to be the exact same character for it to work. Booker and what's-his-wrists aren't very similar either you know.
Fair enough, I guess.
Only 'what's-his-wrists' parallel is Elizabeth, not Booker.
It's Ryan's son and Comstock's[Booker's] daughter
Ryan forges the 'great chain', Comstock constructs the 'cage', etc...
-and their kids kill them- 'what's-his-wrists' is forced to by mind control and Elizabeth chooses to
I agree that they hold broadly similar roles in the 'multiverse' but the characters themselves and the worlds they inhabit are so vastly different in motive and scope it's hard to just say 'oh this guy is that guy'
Ryan wasn't the primary antagonist in Bioshock 1, that turned out to be Fontaine. Fink is more like Sinclair in Bioshock 2 and less like anyone in the first story at all...
To me, Ryan and Comstock/Booker are just two dudes who had remarkable drive and found ways to make crazy cities where there shouldn't be for two vastly different reasons- end of similarity.
Only I guess Comstock/Booker didn't... because he got killed before he could...
I guess.
Maybe.
Only 'what's-his-wrists' parallel is Elizabeth, not Booker.
It's Ryan's son and Comstock's[Booker's] daughter
Ryan forges the 'great chain', Comstock constructs the 'cage', etc...
-and their kids kill them- 'what's-his-wrists' is forced to by mind control and Elizabeth chooses to
I agree that they hold broadly similar roles in the 'multiverse' but the characters themselves and the worlds they inhabit are so vastly different in motive and scope it's hard to just say 'oh this guy is that guy'
Ryan wasn't the primary antagonist in Bioshock 1, that turned out to be Fontaine. Fink is more like Sinclair in Bioshock 2 and less like anyone in the first story at all...
To me, Ryan and Comstock/Booker are just two dudes who had remarkable drive and found ways to make crazy cities where there shouldn't be for two vastly different reasons- end of similarity.
Only I guess Comstock/Booker didn't... because he got killed before he could...
I guess.
Maybe.
Just finished this glorious game and read through that amazing OP and wow.
How awesome is it that you can actually hear Songbird in Bioshock 1. Did they plan to do some sort of trilogy since the beginning? Not that they're really that connected but he must have had idea if he put songbird in Bioshock 1.
Game took me completely by surprise, i borrowed it from a friend but i'll go buy it anyway because they well damn deserve my money.
How awesome is it that you can actually hear Songbird in Bioshock 1. Did they plan to do some sort of trilogy since the beginning? Not that they're really that connected but he must have had idea if he put songbird in Bioshock 1.
Game took me completely by surprise, i borrowed it from a friend but i'll go buy it anyway because they well damn deserve my money.
Is that songbird thing real? I thought it was only there in one video from ign? Maybe someone else. But the sound isn't there in any other fort frolic vids.
Either way, I finished the game about a week ago, I loved it as well!
Awesome OP, exactly what I was looking for. Glad I wasn't the only one that was still a little fuzzy on the specifics after beating the game. It was a really interesting story, but could've been explained a little better. I got the whole baptism, booker = comstock thing, but the part I didn't really get was why Booker sold his daughter and to whom, since it showed Comstock taking her into the tear, but how does that make sense?
Azzurri
Member
Just finished the game; even though, I'm a little late to the party. Beat the game in 3 play through's, first time I've done that in a long time.
Anyways, all I have to say is WOW, I did not expect the ending at all. These are the type of stories I love in games and movies which make you think long and hard (Inception). I'm not gonna lie I was a little confused at the end, but watched the youtube video posted and read the OP, cleared it up, but still makes you think.
Will buy the DLC here soon. Also, best $13 I've ever spent.
Anyways, all I have to say is WOW, I did not expect the ending at all. These are the type of stories I love in games and movies which make you think long and hard (Inception). I'm not gonna lie I was a little confused at the end, but watched the youtube video posted and read the OP, cleared it up, but still makes you think.
Will buy the DLC here soon. Also, best $13 I've ever spent.
Just gotta say that I was down the game for the first half of it, but I stuck with it due to my faith in Ken & co and was not disappointed. The game really delivers in the last few hours. I can imagine a remix where the vox populi thing is minimized and the revelations at the end are stretched out over a couple more hours, but overall it turned out great and got me excited about the Bioshock world again.
When Elizabeth so willingly takes Comstock's hand, I wanted to yell out "no way wtf!" but now it makes sense. Her rage washed away as a biological "this is my daddy" instinct kicks in. She's horrified that Booker kills him, yet can't be totally furious with him since Booker is also Daddy. She exclaims "your nose!" and I think she puts 2 and 2 together at that point, even if as a player it took me just a little longer.
I wish there was a better introduction and more information about the situation inside Comstock House. The doll dudes and the whistleblowers or whatever were delightfully creepy and I would have been interested in more backstory with them.
/randomthoughts
When Elizabeth so willingly takes Comstock's hand, I wanted to yell out "no way wtf!" but now it makes sense. Her rage washed away as a biological "this is my daddy" instinct kicks in. She's horrified that Booker kills him, yet can't be totally furious with him since Booker is also Daddy. She exclaims "your nose!" and I think she puts 2 and 2 together at that point, even if as a player it took me just a little longer.
I wish there was a better introduction and more information about the situation inside Comstock House. The doll dudes and the whistleblowers or whatever were delightfully creepy and I would have been interested in more backstory with them.
/randomthoughts
One thing I didn't see explained in the thread (maybe I just missed it). At the end, Elizabeth says she can't open a door to a certain lighthouse, but then all of a sudden she has the key in her hand and says it's always been there, somehow. Not sure I followed that, is it supposed to be a metaphor or something?
Also, theoretically, wouldn't it be possible for more than two Bookers to exist in the same Colombia, if the Luteces were to bring one back through the tears, and then go and get another? If Booker can meet Comstock (which essentially is a different version of himself), why wouldn't he be able to meet other Bookers as well?
Also, theoretically, wouldn't it be possible for more than two Bookers to exist in the same Colombia, if the Luteces were to bring one back through the tears, and then go and get another? If Booker can meet Comstock (which essentially is a different version of himself), why wouldn't he be able to meet other Bookers as well?
I started getting bored with this game because I did not understand the story nor Booker's motivation at times. This thread and OP is godsend and I'm on my second playthrough. This story changed my life, I think I'm seriously living my wrong timeline. I dunno how to use tears IRL though!
eot
Banned
Quite late to this "party".
I think the twist at the end is pointless. It's just there as a "gotcha", to out-twist the original BioShock. The reason it's not a good twist is because it doesn't clarify anything, it just adds another convoluted layer to the story that they resolve immediately anyway. I suppose it does clarify why your daughter was stolen, but even that was another pointless twist introduced only minutes earlier.
It's just not in any way necessary for the story. Plus, the way they justify it they could've made you anyone. Luke Skywalker, Julius Caesar or even Michael Jackson. At that point, it's just a nonsensical shock moment and there's no craft in using such a crude plot device. Not that I don't think there aren't bigger problems with the story (triple negative :E).
I think the twist at the end is pointless. It's just there as a "gotcha", to out-twist the original BioShock. The reason it's not a good twist is because it doesn't clarify anything, it just adds another convoluted layer to the story that they resolve immediately anyway. I suppose it does clarify why your daughter was stolen, but even that was another pointless twist introduced only minutes earlier.
It's just not in any way necessary for the story. Plus, the way they justify it they could've made you anyone. Luke Skywalker, Julius Caesar or even Michael Jackson. At that point, it's just a nonsensical shock moment and there's no craft in using such a crude plot device. Not that I don't think there aren't bigger problems with the story (triple negative :E).
I just finished up the game a bit ago myself, honestly I think it's more stupid than pointless. Well, I mean, I agree that it's pointless but my problem is that it's such a fucking awful cliche in time travel/multi-universe stories. The worst part of it all is I knew exactly what was going to happen from the start of the game, outside of it being a terrible cliche and all they also made it far too obvious. The first false prophet poster and speech about Dewitt in the game caused this thought to run through my head: You go to Columbia, Comstock knows who you are and has you marked as a false prophet. How would he know who you are? Obviously he knows your history. How would he know your history? Because the two are the same.
I let out the worst groan when it turned out to be true.
With that said, I say it's a cliche because while 2 opposing characters being the same person isn't that common (though it's still pretty common) they use it as a way to alter history which at this point for this type of story I find to be so boring and overused. Ending left a bad taste in my mouth, I was just hoping for more and not the overly predictable.
About the only thing that holds it together for me is how they tied it into the original Bioshock (man, lighthouse, city). That I at least thought was really unique and cool in its own way.
Lord Scrambles
Member
It absolutely doesn't mean that. One can't just make a claim because it might be true without any proof and regard it as a fact.
Edit: Also what-up thread, This was my game of the year for 2013.
It's just so damn good.
The One Who Knocks
Member
I've returned to this following the recent Late to the Party threads on the game and something I'm curious about is whether or not the presence of two Elizabeth's in the same timeline when the siphon is broken (as she was never rescued originally by Booker in this timeline) was demystified, or if the conclusion is that it's merely something overlooked or irrelevant.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I suggest reading the OP. Glad you liked it!
KennyLinder
Member
Just talking about this at work (recently finished it).
At the start Booker is supposed to meet up with the guy regarding the job, but he's dead. Who killed him?
At the start Booker is supposed to meet up with the guy regarding the job, but he's dead. Who killed him?
The One Who Knocks
Member
Sorry, I'm somewhat unclear as to what guy you're referring to. Do you mean the Lighthouse Keeper? If so, Comstock knew that Booker would, some day, come for Anna/Elizabeth, and knew that he would carve her initials into his hand, and sent a watcher to the lighthouse (whether he new the exact date or if the lighthouse keeper hand been there for a significant duration is unclear) to murder Booker (there's the note from Comstock on the map that warns that DeWitt is coming and he must be ready) whenever he arrived. The Luteces either learnt through failure (ie Booker arrives and is immediately killed), or by knowing prior to their death (evidence provided by the note in their dwellings commenting on the "one obstacle") and brutally murdered him. This serves two purposes; first it prevents him murdering Booker, and secondly it used the Lighthouse Keeper as a way to further intimidate Booker, reinforcing the narrative that he creates every time, to ensure that, when Elizabeth offered him the opportunity to escape (when they had Lady Comstock's airship), he would be too afraid to leave ("these are serious people" or a similar quote).
I hope that answers the question as I'm unsure as to who you're referring (because Booker was never actually meant to meet anyone regarding 'the job' since there was no actual job).
Bu-bu-bu-bumpin' this badboy.
Finished Infinite yesterday and man, I was surprised.
Not necessarily taken aback by the "twist" (Booker = Comstock) itself, but rather what it implies and how it presents the story as a whole.
Reading some of those voxophone transcripts... wow. Makes me want to replay it again and piece it all together properly.
The significance of the coin toss and theory of different/parallel Bookers every time you die/open the door are two things that definitely didn't click. Also I love stuff like the Songbird easter egg!
It was also quite eye-opening reading more into the Lautece twins and their motives. To be honest, I didn't much care for Booker and Elizabeth's relationship by the end, but the bigger picture surrounding them was really interesting.
Apart from the infamous Lady Comstock boss (so funny seeing reactions to this in other threads) and some uninspired enemy/encounter designs in general, I really enjoyed this. Not sure if I'll pick up the DLC any time soon, but will keep an eye out in future as the Bioshock universe has always intrigued me.
Great work with the OT, btw.
Finished Infinite yesterday and man, I was surprised.
Not necessarily taken aback by the "twist" (Booker = Comstock) itself, but rather what it implies and how it presents the story as a whole.
Reading some of those voxophone transcripts... wow. Makes me want to replay it again and piece it all together properly.
The significance of the coin toss and theory of different/parallel Bookers every time you die/open the door are two things that definitely didn't click. Also I love stuff like the Songbird easter egg!
It was also quite eye-opening reading more into the Lautece twins and their motives. To be honest, I didn't much care for Booker and Elizabeth's relationship by the end, but the bigger picture surrounding them was really interesting.
Apart from the infamous Lady Comstock boss (so funny seeing reactions to this in other threads) and some uninspired enemy/encounter designs in general, I really enjoyed this. Not sure if I'll pick up the DLC any time soon, but will keep an eye out in future as the Bioshock universe has always intrigued me.
Great work with the OT, btw.
AnathemicOne
Banned
So I beat this game in two days (or 9 hours as stated by Steam), got it from a friend as it was on sale for $7.50. Mind you that I never played any game in the Bioshock series.
I have to say I enjoyed this game alot; the gameplay is superb (skyrail shooting ftw) and the story is something to ponder on for a while. I found that it was genius decision to have Elizabeth be your AI companion throughout the game, it added both a gameplay and familial element to really have the overall story/plot reside in you.
Even though the game is its own standalone product in the series, makes it a shame I haven't played the previous two.
I have to say I enjoyed this game alot; the gameplay is superb (skyrail shooting ftw) and the story is something to ponder on for a while. I found that it was genius decision to have Elizabeth be your AI companion throughout the game, it added both a gameplay and familial element to really have the overall story/plot reside in you.
Even though the game is its own standalone product in the series, makes it a shame I haven't played the previous two.
Bedameister
Member
Wow I didn't know about this thread until now. Great work.
But I also have a question to the story. Maybe it's a little to late but maybe someone can help me.
It has to do with this graphic
It has to do with the A1 and A2 universe. Fist of all I'm not sure if the Voxophones about the Booker from this universe not being able to rescue Elizabeth and then teaming up with Slate/the Vox being both in A1 and A2? I thought they were only in A2.
But anyways my question is about this Elizabeth that wasn't rescued and then taken to Comstock House. Where is she, what happened to her. There is no mention of her. If she's at Comstock House we should actually meet her right?
And with regards to Burial at Sea Episode 2:
But I also have a question to the story. Maybe it's a little to late but maybe someone can help me.
It has to do with this graphic
It has to do with the A1 and A2 universe. Fist of all I'm not sure if the Voxophones about the Booker from this universe not being able to rescue Elizabeth and then teaming up with Slate/the Vox being both in A1 and A2? I thought they were only in A2.
But anyways my question is about this Elizabeth that wasn't rescued and then taken to Comstock House. Where is she, what happened to her. There is no mention of her. If she's at Comstock House we should actually meet her right?
And with regards to Burial at Sea Episode 2:
Could she be the one we play in the DLC? In the DLC Elizabeth returns to Columbio through the tear she came from and we go straight into this Universe A2 from Bioshock Infinite (we even See Booker and Elizabeth who came there from Universe A).
For me that would actually make sense since we never heard from the Elizabeth Booker didn't rescue in Infinite. Maybe she escaped from there going to Rapture hunting down that Comstock.
Your opinions on that?
For me that would actually make sense since we never heard from the Elizabeth Booker didn't rescue in Infinite. Maybe she escaped from there going to Rapture hunting down that Comstock.
Your opinions on that?
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
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