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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

Madness

Member
Damn.. Well I stand with jem, so take that!

#HaloGAFCivilWar

There is always room aboard the bad opinion train though... ;)

I still say I would prefer no radar at all. I don't think it would really be TOO hectic. But I feel this is still better than the motion tracker we have now. Will have to play more this weekend to gauge how I feel about it.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
That's cool Jem. I still stand by my post.

Damn.. Well I stand with jem, so take that!

#HaloGAFCivilWar

Cool. Good talk.

lol, i've written several posts to respond to people about why this radar is so good only to delete before posting because ultimately this is what the response would be. i love it, dont much care others opinions on it aside from what it takes to get incorporated into at least portions of the game permanently as well as in the hcs
 

jem0208

Member
There is always room aboard the bad opinion train though... ;)

I still say I would prefer no radar at all. I don't think it would really be TOO hectic. But I feel this is still better than the motion tracker we have now. Will have to play more this weekend to gauge how I feel about it.
One of the best things about this radar is that it encourages more walking though. Take out radar completely and you lose that whole tactical decision of whether or not to use abilities. The ability tracker definitely makes 5 feel more like classic Halo which is great.
 

belushy

Banned
lol, i've written several posts to respond to people about why this radar is so good only to delete before posting because ultimately this is what the response would be. i love it, dont much care others opinions on it aside from what it takes to get incorporated into at least portions of the game permanently as well as in the hcs

Pretty much how I feel. New radar is good. Whiners gtfo. (/s obs)
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
One of the best things about this radar is that it encourages more walking though. Take out radar completely and you lose that whole tactical decision of whether or not to use abilities. The ability tracker definitely makes 5 feel more like classic Halo which is great.

this is 100% true. halo 5 with no radar would be crazy with people flying all over the damn place with no repercussions. now, even simple things like sprint are even more punished then they were before, a VERY good thing.

also, am i the only one who feels like they are doing significantly better with the new radar? probably because while i've played halo since the beginning and have lots of in game knowledge and awareness, i'm old and my gun skills have fallen off a bit. but i feel so empowered now. love this.
 
civil_war.gif


We were overdue anyways
 

Madness

Member
One of the best things about this radar is that it encourages more walking though. Take out radar completely and you lose that whole tactical decision of whether or not to use abilities. The ability tracker definitely makes 5 feel more like classic Halo which is great.

Maybe this may be the case going forward, but right now, or maybe in rotting wood tier, people still spam sprint and abilities like before so nothing has really changed. So maybe once the radar is universally applied it will become more strategic.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Maybe this may be the case going forward, but right now, or maybe in rotting wood tier, people still spam sprint and abilities like before so nothing has really changed. So maybe once the radar is universally applied it will become more strategic.

i'm seeing this too and shitting on them =)
 

belushy

Banned
Community Update: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/burn-baby-burn

Some HCS info:

  • Two streams will be live all weekend during the HWC. So every match will be on stream in some form
  • The main stream will be on Twitch, Beam, and apparently a platform they can't announce yet (I think ESL was rumored to be partnering with Twitter recently to stream events...)
  • Small crowdfunding update, it will not be used for HWC and it will stay at $1 mil, but the crowd funding will instead go towards Open lan events during the 2017 HCS season

edit: Tomorrow ESL will be releasing the group draws for HWC.
 

Madness

Member

Yup. Such a simple solution for fans to see a different match rather than hear what happened later.

At least crowdfunding will come back. I feel like having a 1 mil or 1.5 mil championship is great, but let's have like 4 open LANs for like 100 or 250k as well. All over the US. Grow the viewership, amateur scene. Give pros more stability and longevity.
 

belushy

Banned
Yup. Such a simple solution for fans to see a different match rather than hear what happened later.

At least crowdfunding will come back. I feel like having a 1 mil or 1.5 mil championship is great, but let's have like 4 open LANs for like 100 or 250k as well. All over the US. Grow the viewership, amateur scene. Give pros more stability and longevity.

Yeah, that sounds perfect imo. Really want a few more high prize open events
 
Played a few more games in PG. So easy to see panic players racing to a stronghold now. Camping feels much easier if you do that kind of thing.

Slayer is interesting though. I guess after trying my usual movements with sprint slide jump thrust* its a little more fun.

I suppose i wouldnt mind getting used to this radar but then sneaky crouch plays are nul and the only purpose of crouch will be to slide, crouch jump and crouch strafe. Well thats not too bad i guess.
 

Madness

Member
Due to our success the first year it gave us the opportunity to expand into new games that were larger than Halo...

Halo is just a stepping stone. Lol, and 343 gave us Allegiance skins over so many other orgs.

I also blame HCS the way it is run. All these team changes and shady issues with players. Online pro league is pretty useless for org growth. Allegiance and all these orgs cannot really market anything if players and teams change so frequently etc.
 

Trup1aya

Member
At somepoint 343 is going to have to learn that their insistence on a format of favoritism is nerfing every opportunity for this scene to grow.

World's could have been the season that showed they finally get it- to build on what they learned from Pro League season 2. Instead they came up with this shittiest most unfair format I've ever witnessed- repeatedly fucking AMs at every event.

ALG didn't deliver in Vegas, but damn if the ridiculous point system didn't screw them at every turn, giving them the toughest brackets while Pro teams that they out performed got cake walks.

When it comes to Pro League, I get it, it's cheap and easy. But when you are artificially limiting your scene to 8 teams, how can you expect additional orgs to want to participate long term?

Why not supplement the Pro League season with multiple open LANs, and let AMs use the weekly online cups to qualify for pool play at these LANs. This would give orgs a reason to represent Top AM squads as they would get more stream time and more opportunities to play against Pros. It also would make day 1 of these tournaments actually interesting.

The keys to stability are in 343s hands, but it's like they actively work against it.
 
Don't blame ALG at all. No idea how any orgs make money off Halo currently. I know optic doesn't take any prize money, although I bet they sell a good amount of skins. But enough to pay for 4 players 1,000-2,000 a month plus travel expenses? Let's say it's just 8k a month in expenses, skins are $10 and a solid guess for the orgs cut is 50%. That's 16,000 skins a month. I bet 16k is the peak population number for the day.

Big orgs can take the hit becuase they have big sponsors from other games, but smaller ones like ALG will bow out.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Yup. Such a simple solution for fans to see a different match rather than hear what happened later.

At least crowdfunding will come back. I feel like having a 1 mil or 1.5 mil championship is great, but let's have like 4 open LANs for like 100 or 250k as well. All over the US. Grow the viewership, amateur scene. Give pros more stability and longevity.

Adding another broadcast is not a simple solution, unfortunately. ESL will have a whole other team, stage, and set of production equipment running that. With that said, I'm very interested in seeing if we could leverage observer mode for later open events to run a more cost effective secondary broadcast while still delivering a quality experience.

Yeah, that sounds perfect imo. Really want a few more high prize open events

That's the idea! :]


Definitely heard all of the feedback and would probably make a couple key tweaks to qualification format if I could go back in time. Currently, HCS actually has strong momentum with growing viewership, as well as participation at open events. I also think the open events with Gfinity in Mexico and London were crucial for those scenes, and am very happy we were able to deliver our first official open events in those regions. There's definitely a lot room for improvement and we have already taken steps to grow the entire scene more (Summer and Fall 2017 Finals being open events, and crowdfunding going to open events).

I personally feel we need to do a way better job at communicating rules, formats, reasons for decisions, and timelines further ahead. Believe it or not we have improved in these areas but still not where I want us to be. I also want to focus on building relationships with more players in the amateur scene to get better feel of what motivates them, what are their wants/needs, etc. I also want to ensure all HCS events provide unforgettable experiences that people regret not attending. Those are just a few of my goals for 2017.

Lastly I think it's important to note that the HCS team is small, but we're tough and extremely passionate. And just like any other team working on a program/project, we have logistical and resource boundaries that we must work within.

BTW - I absolutely love how much HCS talk there is in HaloGAF these days. Years ago, people only really spoke about it around major events. I'm also noticing more chatter in general Halo communities like on Waypoint and r/Halo.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
Adding another broadcast is not a simple solution, unfortunately. ESL will have a whole other team, stage, and set of production equipment running that. With that said, I'm very interested in seeing if we could leverage observer mode for later open events to run a more cost effective secondary broadcast while still delivering a quality experience.



That's the idea! :]



Definitely heard all of the feedback and would probably make a couple key tweaks to qualification format if I could go back in time. Currently, HCS actually has strong momentum with growing viewership, as well as participation at open events. I also think the open events with Gfinity in Mexico and London were crucial for those scenes, and am very happy we were able to deliver our first official open events in those regions. There's definitely a lot room for improvement and we have already taken steps to grow the entire scene more (Summer and Fall 2017 Finals being open events, and crowdfunding going to open events).

I personally feel we need to do a way better job at communicating rules, formats, reasons for decisions, and timelines further ahead. Believe it or not we have improved in these areas but still not where I want us to be. I also want to focus on building relationships with more players in the amateur scene to get better feel of what motivates them, what are their wants/needs, etc. I also want to ensure all HCS events provide unforgettable experiences that people regret not attending. Those are just a few of my goals for 2017.

Lastly I think it's important to note that the HCS team is small, but we're tough and extremely passionate. And just like any other team working on a program/project, we have logistical and resource boundaries that we must work within.

BTW - I absolutely love how much HCS talk there is in HaloGAF these days. Years ago, people only really spoke about it around major events. I'm also noticing more chatter in general Halo communities like on Waypoint and r/Halo.
If we can help(or I) in any way, let me know. I'm also noticing the trend of more HCS talk and I love it.

And yes tje communicationg has to grow, but not only from the HCS side, neighbor is now doing a good job at explaining weapon tweaks etc.

Also worst thing to happen thos season was the 'cratod fiasco' so yeah the qualification process needs work, hope you keep that in mind for proleague, nobody should get fucked again due to the coach ruling.

HCS is growing and Open events will only help that, dreamhack will also be cool, hyped for HWC, hope the bracket won't favor non-na teams too much
 

Trup1aya

Member
Definitely heard all of the feedback and would probably make a couple key tweaks to qualification format if I could go back in time. Currently, HCS actually has strong momentum with growing viewership, as well as participation at open events. I also think the open events with Gfinity in Mexico and London were crucial for those scenes, and am very happy we were able to deliver our first official open events in those regions. There's definitely a lot room for improvement and we have already taken steps to grow the entire scene more (Summer and Fall 2017 Finals being open events, and crowdfunding going to open events).

I personally feel we need to do a way better job at communicating rules, formats, reasons for decisions, and timelines further ahead. Believe it or not we have improved in these areas but still not where I want us to be. I also want to focus on building relationships with more players in the amateur scene to get better feel of what motivates them, what are their wants/needs, etc. I also want to ensure all HCS events provide unforgettable experiences that people regret not attending. Those are just a few of my goals for 2017.

Lastly I think it's important to note that the HCS team is small, but we're tough and extremely passionate. And just like any other team working on a program/project, we have logistical and resource boundaries that we must work within.

BTW - I absolutely love how much HCS talk there is in HaloGAF these days. Years ago, people only really spoke about it around major events. I'm also noticing more chatter in general Halo communities like on Waypoint and r/Halo.

Gfinity was pretty awesome. For example. I respect the tough, inconvenient, call they made in LATAM, to bring more integrity to the qualification format.

Also, it's nice to know you aren't satisfied yet. Early and frequent communication is key. I think there were a lot of details in the Worlds qualification format that probably could have been properly addressed if people actually knew the scoring system ahead of time. Teams didn't know how many points they had earned until registering for the first online cup.

As far as building a relationship with AMs, they all seem to congregate at Team Beyond. I know things seem contentious atm, but that place could easily be a vital resource to the HCS team. It really would be nice to see more interaction and discussion there. Neighbor has been stepping up his presence there with comments on The balancing side of things, so that's a start. It's also worth mentioning that folks from TB are driving much of the HCS discussion on Reddit and Waypoint. They want the scene to grow too!

As far as what AMs are motivated by, I'd say it's opportunities to earn $ and the aspiration to become pro. That's why having frequent opportunities to compete against Pros on a level playing field is key. (Also, east coast LANs)

Season 1 of pro league was rough on AMs because they were completely separated from Pros. Pros had no reason to scrim them, and they couldn't get any LAN experience prior to relegation.

Season 2 saw immediate results as AMs had more chances to guage themselves on LAN

With Worlds, we finally saw some overlap between AM and Pro caliber performance, and it would have been nice to see AMs actually get rewarded for their performance, rather than seeing Pros get arbitrary bonuses for being pros.
 

CyReN

Member
Same excuses, different day. Changes start at the top, ignoring the biggest competitive community over and over obviously shows cleared biased by the team. I have little to no faith with the current HCS staff at this point - my passion for the scene continues to dwindle with no fault to the teams or the community. Pro League will always discourage the scene and orgs from joining - make it stop already.

Hope we can put up decent numbers next week, OpTic Top 1.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Bummer about ALG, hope to see them return. Still excited for next season. Even if improvements are slow to come, they are improving. I'm still entertained and the shakeup of new radar coupled with more am team competition is super exciting.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
Same excuses, different day. Changes start at the top, ignoring the biggest competitive community over and over obviously shows cleared biased by the team. I have little to no faith with the current HCS staff at this point - my passion for the scene continues to dwindle with no fault to the teams or the community. Pro League will always discourage the scene and orgs from joining - make it stop already.

Hope we can put up decent numbers next week, OpTic Top 1.
1 tournament each 2 months only accompanied by scrims would even reduce the viewership.
You may not like it but a weekly format keeps people talking about it, also keep in mind that all successful Esport games in the scene became really big when their weekly league started.

And I posted on Beyond why Tashi would post more likely on here than at yours ;) and you should know as well.
 

jem0208

Member
1 tournament each 2 months only accompanied by scrims would even reduce the viewership.
You may not like it but a weekly format keeps people talking about it, also keep in mind that all successful Esport games in the scene became really big when their weekly league started.

And I posted on Beyond why Tashi would post more likely on here than at yours ;) and you should know as well.
Totally agree.
 
Totally agree.

So i want to say that i now agree with you after a few more games under my belt and i welcome the new radar. i had an impression that no matter what i do with my abilities id just show up on radar like a homing beacon.

i also want to apologize for acting like an asshole.
 

CyReN

Member
I posted on Beyond why Tashi would post more likely on here than at yours ;) and you should know as well.

I always find these posts funny, you will see people as critical of the HCS on here, r/Halo, social media, etc. Of course there will be those few that go overboard, but let's not have those overshadow others that have given constructive feedback ad nauseam over the years.

The biggest tourney of the year is in a week and players and fans don't know the format and gametype, the last HCS online event went until 3am EST on a Monday. I don't know how this would be acceptable in any medium at this point.

The HCS will start to turn around once accountability is added, until then the ship will continue to sink.
 
Increasing participation of AMs and fixing the logistics of the scene are only a part of the problem.

I think the bigger issue is new players not getting into Halo months after release. Look at R6:Siege, the game is STILL charting in February in the NDP thread. Halo just isn't as popular anymore. And for the new generation of gamers, they don't ever see their favourite streamers or youtubers play Halo. But you do see major content creators playing R6 Siege and praising the game from time to time.

There's little awareness that H5 or a Halo pro scene even exists.
 

jem0208

Member
I just had a seriously fucking frustrating moment.

Playing CTF Tyrant, we were 2 - 2 and about to score when they clutch kill the carrier and return their flag. I pickup the snipe, get a double kill to return the flag just before they score. We then grab the flag just as they grab ours I get the kill on our flag and return it before dying.

I then sit there for a full 8 seconds looking at our flag carrier crouching directly above our returned flag. I respawn and run towards our base only to watch our flag carrier get killed and their flag returned. They then won the match.



Liking tyrant a lot with the new radar though.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Increasing participation of AMs and fixing the logistics of the scene are only a part of the problem.

I think the bigger issue is new players not getting into Halo months after release. Look at R6:Siege, the game is STILL charting in February in the NDP thread. Halo just isn't as popular anymore. And for the new generation of gamers, they don't ever see their favourite streamers or youtubers play Halo. But you do see major content creators playing R6 Siege and praising the game from time to time.

There's little awareness that H5 or a Halo pro scene even exists.

Yeah I do wish 343 was more aggressive with promotions. Similar to what Ubi did with RB6:S The free week they did seemed to help add a lot of new players.

But now it's like, whose gonna download a 100gig trial?

I wish they had a free, streamlined version of H5 that just housed the Ranked Arena.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Siege is definitely helped by being multiplatform. Although they did drop their console pro league and now it's PC only.

You always make more sales and have a bigger base on multiplat.
 

jem0208

Member
Proving grounds has legit got me addicted to Halo 5 all over again...


Although playing Eden strongholds with shite teammates isn't helping...
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
have any of the pros weighed in, in detail, on their impressions of proving grounds yet? i only frequent the HCS thread at beyond and have seen basically none. I imagine its been well received across the board (likely with a few "just remove it entirely!"s thrown in as well)?
 

jem0208

Member
have any of the pros weighed in, in detail, on their impressions of proving grounds yet? i only frequent the HCS thread at beyond and have seen basically none. I imagine its been well received across the board (likely with a few "just remove it entirely!"s thrown in as well)?

I imagine the pros haven't played it at all considering Worlds is 1 week away and will be using normal radar. We'll be getting pro opinions after that.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
I always find these posts funny, you will see people as critical of the HCS on here, r/Halo, social media, etc. Of course there will be those few that go overboard, but let's not have those overshadow others that have given constructive feedback ad nauseam over the years.

The biggest tourney of the year is in a week and players and fans don't know the format and gametype, the last HCS online event went until 3am EST on a Monday. I don't know how this would be acceptable in any medium at this point.

The HCS will start to turn around once accountability is added, until then the ship will continue to sink.

If you read what I said, the posters going overboard is totally not the main reason. :)
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
I imagine the pros haven't played it at all considering Worlds is 1 week away and will be using normal radar. We'll be getting pro opinions after that.

i've definitely seen some on twitch with titles like "proving ground grind", but you're right, *most pros* probably wouldnt want to mess with a new meta just yet




*EG, ALG (Rip) not included =(
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Looking forward to watching next weekend. Will be able to watch all day Friday and Sunday. Saturday i will be glued to twitter.
 
Yeah I do wish 343 was more aggressive with promotions. Similar to what Ubi did with RB6:S The free week they did seemed to help add a lot of new players.

But now it's like, whose gonna download a 100gig trial?

I wish they had a free, streamlined version of H5 that just housed the Ranked Arena.
Yup for the next game they NEED to split the data. Its pretty off-putting if you bought the Xbone S bundle with H5 and MCC and saw that both games take up like 30% of the drive lol
 

jem0208

Member
i've definitely seen some on twitch with titles like "proving ground grind", but you're right, *most pros* probably wouldnt want to mess with a new meta just yet




*EG, ALG (Rip) not included =(

Asked 2gre in his twitch stream and he says he doesn't like it and wishes there was just no radar.
 
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