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CookTrain
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:50 PM)

Originally Posted by ExtinctionEvent

That's 2 games you cherry picked...and considering they overhauled PVP, added 4 new planets, with all new story, like every sequel. How is Gears 2 a sequel and Destiny 2 not?

Faction wars is new
Adventures - New
Lost Sectors - New

It's a sequel by the very definition.

As I said, it's the example in the OP.

The PvP stuff, now that's a sequel-worthy change. Fair enough. I haven't dabbled in that, so it didn't come to mind.
ExtinctionEvent
Banned
(09-13-2017, 06:50 PM)

Originally Posted by EloquentM

Lol what does it feel like? It feels like a sequel because it literally is a sequel.

This, we got people jumping through hoops trying to re-define what a sequel is, hiliarious.

Originally Posted by CookTrain

As I said, it's the example in the OP.

The PvP stuff, now that's a sequel-worthy change. Fair enough. I haven't dabbled in that, so it didn't come to mind.

So why ignore my question...By this logic barely any games are sequels....it's a sequel by the very definition...period.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:52 PM)
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Feels like a large expansion. Or a new, updated model... On that note, it's almost too bad the areas of Destiny 1 couldn't be included somehow.

But it also feels better with the loot content, and other refinements.

What's really going to need to make Destiny 2 stick out is how they handle adding new content. I hope they add more, faster, and bigger than what they did with Destiny. And also push free content expansions alongside paid ones.

Make the world actually feel alive and ever changing.
Alienous
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:53 PM)
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When games feel like expansions it tends to be content added with the core of the prior game (engine technology, art direction) seeing only minor changes.

I can understand why some might see it in the above way, from the footage I've seen. It looks more like Destiny with more content, rather than Destiny 2 with these all-new mechanics / art / modes.
funkystudent
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:53 PM)
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It totally feels like they had a followup to TTK and decided to take a extra year to beef it up and do a kinda soft reboot.


The big changes they have made seem like QOL stuff that easily could have been patched into D1. Graphically it hasnt jumped that far ahead. Assets seem the same quality but they added some more pretty sparks I guess. The online functionality hasnt evolved to a point where you go "yeah. I see why they couldnt do this on a 360 like they did with D1".

Calling it Destiny 1.5 seems totally fair. Makes sense when you hear they are still using left over Destiny 1 ideas and assets that got cut too.


Maybe Destiny 3 on next gen might be the Destiny game people wanted.
Last edited by funkystudent; 09-13-2017 at 06:56 PM.
Pejo
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:54 PM)
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I feel like it's a true sequel in a lot of ways. I still wish they'd have added a brand new element and subclass for each class OR a 4th class or something to that effect. It's not like there's a weakness triangle like Void > Solar > Arc > Void or anything, so how hard would it have been to balance?

Anyways, yea, feels like a sequel, could have used more "new" stuff though.
Burdmayn
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:54 PM)
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I feel like this is really hard to say when the first game had some much time to iterate/improve. To me, Vanilla Destiny to Destiny 2 definitely feels like a full sequel. From TTK to Destiny 2 feels like less of a jump but definitely not what I'd call an "expansion".
Raven117
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:54 PM)
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In the end, does it matter? What does any "sequel" really mean?

Are folks enjoying it and think its worth 60 bucks?

Thats all that matters.
Nikana
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:54 PM)
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The issue for me was that destiny 1 didn't feel like a complete game at all. Not even close.

So now that Destiny 2 feels like a more completed version, it feels like a finished version, therefore making it neither?

Idk, either way im still not completely satisfied with the final game. It still has some odd design choices that shouldn't of been carried over from Destiny 1.
carlsojo
Member
(09-13-2017, 06:55 PM)
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Feels like a very big expansion. The biggest thing holding it back for me is that the enemy types are almost exactly the same.
Mr_Antimatter
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(09-13-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Sequel. New weapon system, new environments, new enemies, new challenges/leveling methods, new loot and engram systems/setup, etc.
Plasma
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(09-13-2017, 06:56 PM)
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If you're comparing it to vanilla Destiny then it feels like a sequel but with everything they added to that over the years with the patches and expansions it doesn't feel quite as fully fleshed out as you might hope a sequel could be. Still I really enjoyed playing through it though, the game is a lot of fun.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(09-13-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alienous

When games feel like expansions it tends to be content added with the core of the prior game (engine technology, art direction) seeing only minor changes.

I can understand why some might see it in the above way, from the footage I've seen. It looks more like Destiny with more content, rather than Destiny 2 with these all-new mechanics / art / modes.

This is literally the only feasible way for a lot of studios to actually get things done in a reasonable time frame with a "reasonable" budget. Hence why it's not out of the ordinary for iterative sequels to be still called sequels. And not even just a mid tier studio thing a ton of juggernaut IPs have done this.
blly155
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(09-13-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Power Shot

Since we're debating sequel or expansion here, thought I might ask:

Is it a huge improvement on Destiny as it was at launch or Destiny as it is today (patches and all)?

As it is today. At least that's just my opinion.

I got Destiny 1 at launch but stopped just after the 1st expansion and never went back to it until earlier this year and played through all the expansions. I enjoyed it but I think Destiny 2 is far better this soon after it's launch than Destiny 1 is 3 years after launch.
The ๖ۜBronx
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:00 PM)
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Posting this at a time when most of the core Destiny crowd are busy watching the first raid attempts was a stunning display of coincidence.

Sequel for me.
Night Angel
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:01 PM)
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Definitely a sequel.
Power Shot
Junior Member
(09-13-2017, 07:01 PM)

Originally Posted by blly155

As it is today. At least that's just my opinion.

I got Destiny 1 at launch but stopped just after the 1st expansion and never went back to it until earlier this year and played through all the expansions. I enjoyed it but I think Destiny 2 is far better this soon after it's launch than Destiny 1 is 3 years after launch.

That's interesting. I remember the coverage being really, really bad at launch, even though everyone was playing it. Then, gradually, things got better. Perhaps the words sequel or expansion are indeed meaningless in this games-as-service era of gaming. I don't know whether Destiny would have had a sequel if they hadn't been able to patch and revise it.
CookTrain
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:01 PM)

Originally Posted by The ๖ۜBronx

Posting this at a time when most of the core Destiny crowd are busy watching the first raid attempts was a stunning display of coincidence.

Sequel for me.

Goodness, thanks for the reminder!
Alienous
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Crossing Eden

This is literally the only feasible way for a lot of studios to actually get things done in a reasonable time frame with a reasonable budget. Hence why it's not out of the ordinary for iterative sequels to be still called sequels. And not even just a mid tier studio thing a ton of juggernaut IPs have done this.

Of course, and a ton haven't. Assassin's Creed 2, Arkham City. New systems, and even aesthetic changes to differentiate it.

Destiny 2 is a sequel, but whether it feels like one is a different matter.
Chris_Rivera
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:01 PM)
Story content feels like an expansion, the visuals make it feel like a sequel. Iím gaming at 4k, btw.
Berzerkiymc
Junior Member
(09-13-2017, 07:01 PM)
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PC Version would be the real sequel?


Just trolling sorry.
Bollocks
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:02 PM)
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tldr:
Destiny 1: EARLY ACCESS
Destiny 2: RELEASE
Piers
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:02 PM)
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It's not a half-sequel like Xenoverse 2 at least.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
(09-13-2017, 07:03 PM)
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Sequel. I hated Destiny but 2 is so, so good.
HiredN00bs
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:04 PM)
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TTK was Destiny 1.5. This is Destiny 2.

If this had been an expansion, it couldn't have been as good as it is.
Last edited by HiredN00bs; 09-13-2017 at 09:00 PM.
The Jazz Cabbage Master
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:05 PM)
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I like how Destiny gets dogged on because we fight the same races again when in Halo you had the Covenant and the Flood and the occasional Sentinel. 343 added a new race but it wasn't well received. The enemy variety doesn't come close to Destiny.

In Destiny we have the Fallen, the Hive, the Cabal, the Fallen, and the Vex, and each of these races has a wide variety of combatant types. I just don't get the idea that Bungie needs to create brand new enemies for the game to be called a sequel when creating fun enemies is a monumental task of itself.
Sylas
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:05 PM)
It's about as meaty as your typical MMO expansion, so I'm gonna call it an expansion despite the fact that Destiny is more like Diablo than an MMO. Though it's also a sequel in the sense that you actually can't play any of the old content without popping in an entirely different game and your progress doesn't carry across the two.
spad3
Junior Member
(09-13-2017, 07:06 PM)
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Destiny 2 feels like an expansion because the expansions to Destiny 1 built up a more "complete" game with tons of content and more refined gameplay.

Destiny 2 is definitely a more complete game than Vanilla Destiny 1, but it's a lesser game than end-game Destiny 1 with substantially less content.
Draft
(09-13-2017, 07:06 PM)
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There is an incredible amount of new content, but it is kind of shocking that there are no new character classes, no new sub-classes, we are still fighting the Cabal/Fallen/Taken/Vex, the 3 faction leaders from D1 remain the primary narrative characters, same guns (even down to elemental damage types,) and personally, I feel like some of the levels are reminiscent of D1 locations. Lots and lots of old things make up the new content.
HvySky
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:07 PM)
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As someone who liked base Destiny for the first 15-20 hours and then really, really didn't like Destiny after that, I'm having a great time with Destiny 2. Feels like what the original was meant to be.
lt519
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(09-13-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Jazz Cabbage Master

In Destiny we have the Fallen, the Hive, the Cabal, the Fallen, and the Vex, and each of these races has a wide variety of combatant types. I just don't get the idea that Bungie needs to create brand new enemies for the game to be called a sequel when creating fun enemies is a monumental task of itself.

They made an entire new "race" for TTK which was actually an expansion. Later expansions added things like tracer shanks, etc. We got almost nothing in D2 besides some dogs and cabals with machetes.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(09-13-2017, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alienous

Of course, and a ton haven't. Assassin's Creed 2, Arkham City. New systems, and even aesthetic changes to differentiate it.

Destiny 2 is a sequel, but whether it feels like one is a different matter.

Both AC2 and Asylum while introducing new systems and refining the core gameplay feel are very similar to the games that came before them.
Vital Tundra
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(09-13-2017, 07:08 PM)
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Haven't played but there is a lot of asset use and what not that makes it feel like an expansion, but the amount of content says sequel. Honestly saying its an expansion really isn't a bad thing, because 'effin love expansions. Some of my favorite games are kinda my favorites because of expansions. Brood War turned an RTS I love to an RTS I can't live without.
J@hranimo
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nosgotham

it has similar art so its obviously an expansion pack

#splatoon logic

Thank you for this :lol

From all I've seen it's definitely a sequel. It has a more fleshed out campaign, that in itself is worthy of the sequel name.
Meifu
Junior Member
(09-13-2017, 07:08 PM)
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A Mulligan ?
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:09 PM)
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No for me but I think majority of the criticism is really coming from an aesthetic point of view. Bungie didn't do enough to change the surface look of the game to separate itself from part 2 and I think that's what does it for people. I think a drastic change in looks could of did better here.

Like look at the different between Persona 4 and Persona 5. If D1 and D2 had that drastic of a change, I don't doubt it would have sold a lot but they put no effort into that. That's just my theory...after the gameplay reveal, pretty much everyone was like, "Yup,it's destiny all right" and that set the tone right there.
Mindlog
(09-13-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Campaign: Expansion (too easy and another threat from outside the system comes and leaves rather quickly without doing much to what is my Destiny story)
Almost every else: Sequel (massive improvements to many systems and some stagnation/regression in others)
BattleMonkey
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(09-13-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Feels like an expansion, almost all the changes feel like QoL changes made that could have been done in a patch.

They made new environments to fight in and new story, but almost nothing FEELS different, it feels identical to D1. The reusing of the same enemies would have been fine, if they had gone and added in new enemy types for each of the races, but alot of the game just feels recycled.
bananafactory
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:11 PM)
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Feels like a true sequel in almost every way I can think of. Which surprised me because because from the beta and prerelease footage it definitely gave me a Destiny 1.5 vibe
blakep267
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:11 PM)
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Feels like a big expansion. Sorta like Elder scrolls online morrowind
gutter_trash
(09-13-2017, 07:12 PM)
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having a real Campaign Mode makes it a sequel for me.
The level of art and attention to detail for the Campaign Mode (especially the latter half) makes is a real sequal.

the PvP is underwhelming though, I prefer D1 6v6 matches, more dynamic, more super-heroequest, more solo-able

the PVP in D2 pisses me off
t hicks
Member
(09-13-2017, 07:12 PM)
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definitely feels like a sequel to me, I only played vanilla D1
Agree with the post above me though^ PVP feels like a step back to me
Alienous
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(09-13-2017, 07:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Crossing Eden

Both AC2 and Asylum while introducing new systems and refining the core gameplay feel are very similar to the games that came before them.

And yet adjust the core formula to the extent that you won't find someone calling Arkham City an expansion of Arkham Asylum. However I'd say it's much more common to hear people call AC Brotherhood an expansion of AC2.

I think aesthetic and mechanical variation is what makes some people see a game as a 'true sequel' - "this feels different" rather than "this feels like more of the same".

It's functionally meaningless anyway, but there does seem to be elements that seperate a 'true sequel' from an 'expansion'.
Last edited by Alienous; 09-13-2017 at 07:17 PM.
BattleMonkey
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(09-13-2017, 07:15 PM)
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Also what really killed alot for me, instead of adding new features, the game strips away the features from you to essentially play through and unlock it all again. Remember your sparrows? Well go play through a bunch of the game to get that back. Your subclass? Start over and do tedious quest to get that back. It's just reusing what you know and pushing you back to start over to get rewarded with what we already had? Give us new things, dont make us work to get what we've had for almost 2 years
void666
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(09-13-2017, 07:16 PM)
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It's a sequel and it feels like a sequel.
ZedLeppelin006
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(09-13-2017, 07:16 PM)
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I really don't care if it's like a sequel or expansion. At the end of the day, Destiny 2 for me is more fun to play with the way the adventures are in place of the lame grindy side quests of D1, a story that's actually interesting and it looks and sounds alot better then the first game as well.

I'm quite happy with the purchase from day 1 which is definitely something I couldn't say with vanilla destiny.
yanipheonu
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(09-13-2017, 07:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by BattleMonkey;248856761D1

The reusing of the same enemies would have been fine, if they had gone and added in new enemy types for each of the races, but alot of the game just feels recycled.

The...they did add new enemy types. Every race except maybe the Hive has a new enemy type. Cabal, being the focus of the expansion, have numerous additions. And most old enemy types have at least one new trick (Psions are essentially an entirely new unit now) Frankly with the new AI, old enemy types are acting completely differently anyways.

Before the AI was pretty brain-dead and easy to predict. Now they do some wacky stuff. Captains teleporting around all the time, and Vandals crawling along the ground to get to you faster. They've gotten good at taking cover or hiding from the enemy when they need to. An enemy behind a round obstacle will actually do a lot to avoid you.

I'd say the enemies are improved in every way. Much more fun to fight them now.
mikelarry
Junior Member
(09-13-2017, 07:20 PM)
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I haven't played the full game but played the beta.from watching different streams seeing the same enemies, some of the same weapons i don't care how good the mida was in destiny 1 makes me feel like this is not a sequel but more an expansion and this exact same sentiments are echoed in reviews.
swearing-circle
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(09-13-2017, 07:20 PM)
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It feels like a remaster to me in a lot of ways. It's everything vanilla should have been but wasn't.

But honestly, it does feel like a sequel coming from vanilla. Im happy with it.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
(09-13-2017, 07:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alienous

And yet adjust the core formula to the extent that you won't find someone calling Arkham City an expansion of Arkham Asylum. However I'd say it's much more common to hear people call AC Brotherhood an expansion of AC2.

I think aesthetic and mechanical variation is what makes some people see a game as a 'true sequel' - "this feels different" rather than "this feels like more of the same".

I mean Destiny has several new planets and a very different overall structure to Destiny 1.

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