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2K Games pressured The Sixth Axis to remove 3/10 score from NBA 2K18 review

G

GillianSeed79

Member
2K's PR department is idiotic. All this does is draw attention to the original 3/10 score and blows it up into a big story. If they left it well enough alone people would just look it at it like your typical outlier score with maybe a little whining from fans. Now it creates terrible optics and draws laser sharp focus to the negative review and microtransaction issue.
 
G

GiantBreadbug

Member
OriginalJonty said:
That said I will support my editor's decision precisely because no one here including myself knows what has been said between the parties involved.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is sufficient reason to be okay with a game publisher having a review pulled, but since you're the author and you're clear about standing by what you wrote, then you do you.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
OriginalJonty said:
I'm going to step in real quick before bed.

So at TSA we're all just guys who do the video game stuff outside our day jobs. While some of us have some media training the site doesn't generate the kind of cash that allows us to do tbis full time. We're no IGN, Kotaku or Eurogamer.

That said I will support my editor's decision precisely because no one here including myself knows what has been said between the parties involved.

Have blacklists been threatened? I don't know.

Will the review score change? I don't know. Though my personal position is if the game doesn't ease up on the VC then it won't.

Honestly while the aim was to help highlight the issue, like Kotaku and Jim Sterling have, I don't think anyone at TSA thought it would get this much attention.

Just like you we're waiting on a statement from 2K. Just like you we don't know what will be said or what changes will be announced, if any. Right now I can't shed anymore ligbt on the situation.
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Good luck. I hope your review and score prevail. If you think the game deserves a 3/10 because of VC, then it should stay a 3/10 matter how upset 2K PR gets.
 
N

Narpas Sword0

Member
OriginalJonty said:
I'm going to step in real quick before bed.

So at TSA we're all just guys who do the video game stuff outside our day jobs. While some of us have some media training the site doesn't generate the kind of cash that allows us to do tbis full time. We're no IGN, Kotaku or Eurogamer.

That said I will support my editor's decision precisely because no one here including myself knows what has been said between the parties involved.

Have blacklists been threatened? I don't know.

Will the review score change? I don't know. Though my personal position is if the game doesn't ease up on the VC then it won't.

Honestly while the aim was to help highlight the issue, like Kotaku and Jim Sterling have, I don't think anyone at TSA thought it would get this much attention.

Just like you we're waiting on a statement from 2K. Just like you we don't know what will be said or what changes will be announced, if any. Right now I can't shed anymore light on the situation.
Click to expand...

I'm sympathetic to the bind you are in. But it really doesn't matter what has been said between the parties involved. There should be no communication of this kind.
 
J

jelly

Member
It's a tough one, I can see the worry if they get locked out of Red Dead, GTA etc.

Surprised Take 2 actually cared that much. It just magnifies their evilness.
 
N

NHale

Member
Neuromancer said:
Good luck. I hope your review and score prevail. If you think the game deserves a 3/10 because of VC, then it should stay a 3/10 matter how upset 2K PR gets.
Click to expand...

I'm sure they are fine and dandy, considering their Twitter profile blocks anyone that posts negative things about VC.

#WinnersWin
 
C

chrisPjelly

Member
Umbooki said:
I blame Ronnie2k.*

This goes far above the head of a Community Manager, but fuck Ronnie.

3/10 is too low. Save that score for a busted game that barely functions. 2K18 is a fun basketball experience with greedy microtransactions.
Click to expand...
Maybe he/she used the actual full point scale? 5 is average, which you can certainly assignto a sports game with very little defining features from it's predecessor, and a point or two is docked off for every big problematic hurdle that can slow down or break a component of a game. 3/10 is perfectly reasonable, even if it is a protest score.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
GillianSeed79 said:
2K's PR department is idiotic. All this does is draw attention to the original 3/10 score and blows it up into a big story. If they left it well enough alone people would just look it at it like your typical outlier score with maybe a little whining from fans. Now it creates terrible optics and draws laser sharp focus to the negative review and microtransaction issue.
Click to expand...
This is a good point, it's basically the Streisand Effect. I certainly never would have heard about a 3/10 for an NBA game if 2K hadn't made a big thing about it.
 
Petrae

Petrae

Member
This is bad form all around. TTWO is the shitty bully here, dispatching PR to shut down the review. The Sixth Axis editorial team is the spineless enabler here, giving in to PR pressure and sacrificing its integrity so that it remains on the review list for Red Dead 2 next year.

The damage has already been done, at least in terms of what I decided to buy this year. I'm having a blast with NBA Live 18, even with the annoying-as-fuck Ultimate Team shit in play. The One is a fun solo player mode and I'm really enjoying seeing my created player getting better on the court as he gains experience-- and without microtransaction bullshit to poison the well.
 
W

WarRock

Member
....people are seriously discussing the meaning of specific numbers for the review rating and if it's fair or not to the poor 2K game? Seriously, GAF? Kinda missing the point here.
 
M

mreddie

Member
I really hope my brother didn't pay for this game, he loves these games and it's a fucking disgrace 2K wants you to pay more money to upgrade your character .

I'm more shocked they got really greedy with this one considering VC has been a thing since 2K14.

As for this? WOW.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
So was it a protest score or not? On the one hand:

Update: In discussion with 2K Games, we’ve temporarily removed the score pending a statement with regard to our criticisms, at which point it will be reinstated. Additionally, a draft conclusion was posted that incorrectly characterised our score as a protest vote, and has been reworded to reflect that our criticisms are rooted in the effect that VC and microtransactions have on the gameplay.
Click to expand...

On the other hand:

OriginalJonty said:
My review is now live for NBA 2K18. Before I continue note I've been reviewing the series since 2K13.

TheSixthAxis - 3/10

The score is more of a protest against how bad the grind for VC has got, turning the series from a great basketball experience to a free to play model with a high entry price.
Click to expand...

If the reviewer purposefully scored the game lower than he felt it really deserved to make a point, I think there could be a discussion here about the fairness of that.
 
A

ASaiyan

Banned
NHale said:
I'm sure they are fine and dandy, considering their Twitter profile blocks anyone that posts negative things about VC.

#WinnersWin
Click to expand...
Wait, seriously? Which Twitter account is this? I will test it out by giving them the criticism they deserve, lol.
I'm still blocked by that asshole Kamiya for actually liking his game and having the nerve to suggest that Bayonetta would be great in Smash Bros. Which I later helped make happen via the poll!
 
T

TripleBee

Member
They said the score was a protest.

Then they remove the line about it being a protest - without changing the score.

By definition the score was lower then they believed it should be if it was a protest vote. They kind of boxed themselves into a corner.
 
Vildiil

Vildiil

Member
I've refused to buy 2k this year specifically cause VC can fuck right off. I'm sick of it, it ruins the game.
 
B

BinaryBear07

Member
I have supported the NBA 2k series for years but this year's game is too much. I can't condone these kind of micro transactions. They went too far this year.
 
R

ronaldthump

Member
Collingwood said:
I'm not saying the microtransactions aren't bad. I'm also not saying they don't affect the game. I'm saying I believe 3/10 is over the top. To me, 3/10 suggests are broken or really poor game which this (by the reviewers own admission) isn't.

A 5/10 or 6/10 to me, would be a more accurate score that balances the reviewers hate for VC with the quality of the game itself.
Click to expand...

this is a garbage post because that's your review score. Not his.
 
N

Nev

Banned
I'm never ever buying anything from these pieces of shit, and I don't care what bullshit they come up with for damage control.
 
N

norm9

Member
3-Untitled.gif
 
Z

Zvonimir Boban

Banned
Collingwood said:
I’m strangely not opposed to stuff like this for ridiculous review scores.

I don’t even play 2K Sports games but I still fucking hate intentionally over the top low review scores.

I personally don’t feel microtransactions are a reason to give a review score normally reserved for broken games.
Click to expand...

Play 2K18 and see how your opinion changes.
 
Shpeshal Nick

Shpeshal Nick

aka Collingwood
ronaldthump said:
this is a garbage post because that's your review score. Not his.
Click to expand...

Maybe I’m just viewing this from a different perspective.

I get that big publishers are generally assholes. But developers livelihoods tend to depend on this shit. Like, bad review score in this day and age can literally affect developers lives.

So it seems unfair to me, that a reviewer can so flippantly throw a 3/10 at a quality game that cost a shitload to make and a lot of people sacrificed a lot to get out the door because of the shitty decisions of the publisher.

Don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying the reviewers disdain for microtransactions shouldn’t affect the score. I’m simply saying that to me, the 3/10 seems a little extreme. That’s all.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Collingwood said:
Maybe I'm just viewing this from a different perspective.

I get that big publishers are generally assholes. But developers livelihoods tend to depend on this shit. Like, bad review score in this day and age can literally affect developers lives.

So it seems unfair to me, that a reviewer can so flippantly throw a 3/10 at a game that cost a shitload to make and a lot of people sacrificed a lot to get out the door because the shitty decisions of the publisher.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying the reviewers disdain for microtransactions shouldn't affect the score. I'm simply saying that to me, the 3/10 seems a little extreme. That's all.
Click to expand...
Seems like your problem in both cases is really with the publisher, both for being assholes who make shitty decisions generally, and for attaching developer compensation to subjective review scores.
 
A

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Streisand Effect the hell out of this. More spotlight needs to be out in this game's microtansaction garbage.
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
Collingwood said:
Maybe I'm just viewing this from a different perspective.

I get that big publishers are generally assholes. But developers livelihoods tend to depend on this shit. Like, bad review score in this day and age can literally affect developers lives.

So it seems unfair to me, that a reviewer can so flippantly throw a 3/10 at a quality game that cost a shitload to make and a lot of people sacrificed a lot to get out the door because of the shitty decisions of the publisher.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying the reviewers disdain for microtransactions shouldn't affect the score. I'm simply saying that to me, the 3/10 seems a little extreme. That's all.
Click to expand...

"To me."

You mean, you, the person who admitted he doesn't play sports games in this very thread?

Stop.
 
T

theonerayman

Member
This is ridiculous.. No way would I be OK with the review being pulled and if the review score was changed I would quit. If a company can just complain about a review and it get pulled that takes away whatever little credibility that games journalism has left (I want to point out I believe there are still some very very good games journalists out there but they are the minority)
 
Z

Zvonimir Boban

Banned
Collingwood said:
Maybe I’m just viewing this from a different perspective.

I get that big publishers are generally assholes. But developers livelihoods tend to depend on this shit. Like, bad review score in this day and age can literally affect developers lives.

So it seems unfair to me, that a reviewer can so flippantly throw a 3/10 at a quality game that cost a shitload to make and a lot of people sacrificed a lot to get out the door because of the shitty decisions of the publisher.

Don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying the reviewers disdain for microtransactions shouldn’t affect the score. I’m simply saying that to me, the 3/10 seems a little extreme. That’s all.
Click to expand...

I played 2K18 earlier tonight with a few friends and one of them ended up so pissed off with the game that he uninstalled the game and is going to return it tomorrow. This isn't a child having a rant, it's a guy with a wife and kids getting that angry at the game.

6/10 games don't elicit that kind of reaction in people. Your sympathy shouldn't be with the developers and publishers who pushed this on us, it should be with the customers who, unlike you, have actually played the game.
 
Z

zashga

Member
TSA looks a little bit gutless taking down the review pending some "statement" from 2k. Should've left the review up if they support the reviewer. They can issue an adjustment later if the game changes in some way, but I certainly wouldn't do that just because 2k implies they might. 2k has no credibility here; they're just bullying a small outlet because they can.
 
R

Rmagnus

Banned
Collingwood said:
I’m strangely not opposed to stuff like this for ridiculous review scores.

I don’t even play 2K Sports games but I still fucking hate intentionally over the top low review scores.

I personally don’t feel microtransactions are a reason to give a review score normally reserved for broken games.
Click to expand...

You don't even fucking play the game so basically you got no knowledge about it and yet somehow you feel that you know enough to chime in?
 
J

JonnyB

Banned
Just goes to show you how important review scores still are, even though I know we commonly talk about how they have become far less important recently.
 
AmuroChan

AmuroChan

Member
Collingwood said:
I personally don't feel microtransactions are a reason to give a review score normally reserved for broken games.
Click to expand...

It absolutely is when it's this obnoxious. I play NBA2K ever year and this year they crossed the line IMO. Just about everything in the game is locked behind VC unless you're fine just playing exhibition games.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Neuromancer said:
So was it a protest score or not? On the one hand:



On the other hand:



If the reviewer purposefully scored the game lower than he felt it really deserved to make a point, I think there could be a discussion here about the fairness of that.
Click to expand...

Fairness? Who cares? He's the reviewer, so it's his opinion and his prerogative to score it whatever he wants for whatever reasons he wants. Now, you could say you think he's unreasonable and you disagree, but at the end of the day a review is subject to the reviewer.
 
S

Sarobi

Banned
I skipped 2k18, and many of my friends wish they did too because of the VC situation. 2k needs to get hammered for this.
 
E

EctoPrime

Member
The 3/10 score was refreshing considering 2K gave piles of "free" stuff to gaming journalists in a New York press event a few weeks ago. I'm sure that getting those items will in no way of influenced the review score.
 
K

kasane

Member
I havent bought a full priced NBA 2k since they introduced this VC bullshit. People dont understand how much these micro transactions hamper the gameplay experience on almost everything bar maybe MyLeague and MyGM.

Theyre so blatant and alot of the stuff you need VC for are bullshit, im surprised this is the first low scoring review because of micro transactions. I guess we can see now why.
 
S

Sami+

Member
Collingwood said:
I’m strangely not opposed to stuff like this for ridiculous review scores.

I don’t even play 2K Sports games but I still fucking hate intentionally over the top low review scores.

I personally don’t feel microtransactions are a reason to give a review score normally reserved for broken games.
Click to expand...

What if the game is broken if you don't want to spend extra money?
 
R

ron_bato

Member
I love the on court product, love the improvements to the presentation and broadcast, and I know of a lot of devs there that sacrifice a lot to improve the basketball gameplay side of things.

Despite my affinity for the series, it's absolutely disgusting how they've been treating their consumers. Fuck these guys man. I'm a huge basketball nut, so I purchase every year because I just can't imagine a year without 2k basketball, but these guys are fleecing and treating their customers like garbage every year.

I'm glad that this review sheds light into how detrimental and how greedy take two has been with this series. I hope that all this does is give the issue more traction and more high profile coverage is brought from this as a result.
 
F

Friend of Sonic

Member
I was thinking about buying NBA 2K on a whim because I've never bought it before, then I saw 2K inform me through drastic measures that they are doing shitty micro transactions. Thanks for the warning 2K!
 
D

Deleted member 471617

Unconfirmed Member
Can you play multiple seasons in franchise/dynasty mode (or whatever it's called) without spending actual money on virtual currency?
 
S

SilentRob

Member
First, let's look at what 2K did:

This is normal. Any publisher/responsible PR firm calls an outlet if they score a game significantly worse compared to other outlets or what their predictions said. It's their job to get the game as good a score as possible and do everything in their power to get to that goal.

It's the editors' jobs to ignore these efforts. Either you were confident in your score and your argument for it and keep it or you got something wrong and are forced to issue a correction that alters your opinion on the game.

What you absolutely, categorially cannot do is take away or change the score because a publisher asks you to. It doesn't matter what they say, what they plan for the future or whatever. They can't have any influence on your scores or reviews or opinions. It's normal that there is contact and you talk with a publisher, but the second you actually cave in to their demands you make yourself a mere tool of their marketing. And I'm afraid it looks like that's seemingly what happened here. Even if you put the same score back at some later point you showed that you aren't fully indendent from publishers or PR, which is the worst possible look for any editorial outlet.
 
S

Sami+

Member
Collingwood said:
Maybe I’m just viewing this from a different perspective.

I get that big publishers are generally assholes. But developers livelihoods tend to depend on this shit. Like, bad review score in this day and age can literally affect developers lives.

So it seems unfair to me, that a reviewer can so flippantly throw a 3/10 at a quality game that cost a shitload to make and a lot of people sacrificed a lot to get out the door because of the shitty decisions of the publisher.

Don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying the reviewers disdain for microtransactions shouldn’t affect the score. I’m simply saying that to me, the 3/10 seems a little extreme. That’s all.
Click to expand...

So essentially, because the developers who just wanted to make a good game might get punished for poor review scores, we should instead enable the shady business practices of their publishers who are, in your scenario, essentially holding them ransom. Just pretend the whole thing isn't a big deal.

Solid plan, I like it.
 
Y

Yearsoflurking

Member
daniel77733 said:
Can you play multiple seasons in franchise/dynasty mode (or whatever it's called) without spending actual money on virtual currency?
Click to expand...
Yes if you don't care about any of that myplayer myteam bs this doesn't really pertain to you. I only play online leagues so vc doesn't matter to me. But in principle i will argue against these terrible practices
 
G

Gator86

Member
Collingwood said:
Maybe I’m just viewing this from a different perspective.

I get that big publishers are generally assholes. But developers livelihoods tend to depend on this shit. Like, bad review score in this day and age can literally affect developers lives.

So it seems unfair to me, that a reviewer can so flippantly throw a 3/10 at a quality game that cost a shitload to make and a lot of people sacrificed a lot to get out the door because of the shitty decisions of the publisher.

Don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying the reviewers disdain for microtransactions shouldn’t affect the score. I’m simply saying that to me, the 3/10 seems a little extreme. That’s all.
Click to expand...

No, they're selling a commercial product. If it is significantly less fun than it should be because of microtransactions, those companies can eat shit. Sorry.
 
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