I'd suggest you and others read the thread more thoroughly. The incident report clearly demonstrates the OP lacks extremely important details and that we don't yet have the information we need.
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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
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I'd suggest you and others read the thread more thoroughly. The incident report clearly demonstrates the OP lacks extremely important details and that we don't yet have the information we need.
shadyspace
Banned
If he was just some white guy he would have been arrested.
Wait.... what's to investigate? Since when is Neighborhood Watch allowed to follow, confront, and shoot people?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
That makes no sense. Why have gun sales increased heavily and gun violence dropped? Surely by your logic it should be through the roof.
They aren't. Which should be a hint pointing in the direction that, perhaps, that isn't the whole story(or even an accurate partial story).
PhoenixDark
Banned
The White House
Woody Invincible
Banned
Yeah, the investigation should take place after they have mr. watch guy under arrest for murder.
frankie_baby
Member
he was shot so how is it irrelevant
Neighborhood Watch doesn't confront and stalk people. They report. Why was he following him to begin with? He can't get even get to an altercation if he stays in his car.
He just shot a guy. I'm being reasonable here. I'm not saying that the guy is guilty for 1st degree murder. I'm actually not even saying that yet. I'm wondering why he hasn't even been arrested.
There is MORE than enough out to hold this guy.
frankie_baby
Member
when gun violence is as high as it is there the fact its dropping is hardly worth shouting from the rooftops, plus with modern policing (everywhere but florida it seems) its a lot more difficult to get away with shooting someone
GO AWAY
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Because the instrument is irrelevant to the motive and outcome.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
In what context can gun control be brought up?
Not if the police did not suspect him of murder. If when questioned and the initial investigation was conducted they are convinced the man acted in self defense, no arrest needs to be made. Why did the police come to this conclusion? Were they justified in that conclusion? Suggesting we have definitive answers to these questions is not consistent with the reality of the situation.
frankie_baby
Member
it may not be relevant to the motive but its the reason for the outcome
Neuromancer
Member
Well if someone's on top of you beating the shit out of you and you believe you're in danger of serious injury, you're allowed to shoot in self defense.
As for follow and confront yeah it doesn't seem like he should have done that.
An important question here is how did this turn physical? The witness only saw something after the fight had already started.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Its actually not high and it is worth mentioning as it refutes your claimthe made earlier and modern policing doesn't mean anything, the time for police to arrive is not and never will be quick.
CrazyDogg77
Member
He just won't.
Neuromancer
Member
Yeah pretty sure gun violence in the states has been seeing a down turn for like the last 10 years or something.
Edit: I broke my own rule ignoring the guy
echoshifting
Banned
frankie_baby
Member
why should i though, i have a point, some agree with me some dont
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Yep, its been going downward along with accidents too.
TheNatural
My Member!
What the fuck? There has to be more details than this that aren't being said, because the police are going to arrest someone who shoots and kills someone in cold blood for just walking on the sidewalk, immediately.
Dude Abides
Banned
Manos and Frankie, please make a new gun control thread and you can argue about it there.
Neighborhood Watch is like Bear Patrol.
Neighborhood Watch is like Bear Patrol.
frankie_baby
Member
you'd think so
You are dodging the question.
When you call 911 and report a suspicious person, you are not to approach them yourself. You wait for the police to arrive and handle that.
Period.
He was wrong to approach the boy himself after calling the police. We dont know what the hell happened after that, but we know the first thing that went wrong, was this guy did not wait for the police to arrive like he was supposed to. He went, armed, up to this guy when he should not have.
This isn't debatable.
Is this willful ignorance? It looks like willful ignorance. I'm just sayin.
Well if someone's on top of you, beating the shit out of you, you probably failed at your Neighborhood Watch duties. How do you get from creating the confrontation entirely to self-defense anyways? That's hilarious.
Exactly.
If nothing else, he should be locked up for trying to be a vigilante.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
If he wants to he can, but if he's posting here about it people can respond
60_gig_PS3
Banned
http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012...on-martin-slain-teens-family-demands-answers/
There's another video apparently there was a fight and the guy pulled a gun.
Seems like the neighborhood watch guy was some kind of wanna-be cop so maybe the police are going light on him.
There's another video apparently there was a fight and the guy pulled a gun.
Seems like the neighborhood watch guy was some kind of wanna-be cop so maybe the police are going light on him.
Big Baybee
Member
Ahahaha
Dude, this shit has me laughing hard as fuck.
Neighborhood Watch follows a kid, gets out of the car starting a confrontation while armed, gets his asswhooped by the kid, then shoots the kid in "self-defense".
You can't make this shit up lol
He should already be arrested. I don't know how the fuck that is going over people's heads.
Bay Maximus
Banned
You're right in that there could be some extraordinary circumstances that led to the shooter not being to blame. But that is highly unlikely. What scenario would demand the captain of a civilian neighborhood watch to leave the safety of his car and approach with a gun a single completely unarmed minor and shoot him to death in public? If you try reeeeeeeallly hard maybe you could posit some outlandish situation where this is called for, but here in reality the man acted recklessly and needlessly took a life at best, and murdered a boy in cold blood for being a color he didn't like at worst. Where he lies on the spectrum should be sorted out in court. For now, lock his ass up.
don't forget how he called the police first, which should mean that he was told not to engage and to stay put (assuming the dispatcher followed protocol)
frankie_baby
Member
i'm not in the mood to as i'd need to write a good OP to get people talking, perhaps another time though and i've only posted so much on the subject because of certain people (yourself included) trying to say its not relevant when it clearly is
CrazyDogg77
Member
Even if they didn't follow protocol the guy should have had some common sense.
Gunshot wounds are not necessarily fatal. Most people survive a single gunshot wound. 50 cent is 40% lead by volume, and he's still walking around.
This too. I can't imagine a dispatcher hopping on the line and saying "No one is going to get there in time - Its up to you!!!"
No.... Brandishing a weapon is generally the dumbest thing you can do in any situation. All it does is escalate tension and leave you vulnerable. If you're being attacked, presenting a weapon in that way only means that you can get it taken away or have whoever you're threatening go straight into life/death thinking which leads to much more staggering consequences.
Guns are for killing people at the end of the day. That's all they're for.
frankie_baby
Member
if from whats been said here just drawing the gun would've been incredibly risky, if mr martin was on top of mr racist drawing the gun but not shooting could've risked mr martin taking said gun from mr racist and shooting him (not saying that woul've happened i'm talking in hypotheticals here) yet another reason guns are a bad idea
frankie_baby
Member
infinately more likely to be fatal than a spoon though
Big Baybee
Member
frankie_baby.............please. I hear ya man, but please. Chill
Why did he approach him? I don't understand why it isn't obvious to you and others why the answer to this question is so necessary.
Also, you and others keep assuming that the dispatcher told him not to talk to the kid or do anything. Why? Where is this procedure detailed?
Why was the kid on top of the man beating him, if the eyewitness account is correct? Does confronting him justify the beating? Can he not act in self defense EVEN IF the shooter approached the boy to ask him what he was doing? Did the shooter threaten the boy? Did the boy feel threatened?
Again, this is so much less complicated than so many of you are trying to make this. My position is simple and always correct. Yours requires assumptions, mine rejects that process.
Bay Maximus
Banned
You don't draw your gun unless you intend to or are prepared to shoot something. They're not for show or to gain a mental edge. If you're a punk and you buy a gun you're not suddenly a badass. You're just a punk with a gun. Still cowardly and very dangerous.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Proper procedure is to let the police handle and not send a freaking Neighborhood Watch captain to. Maybe the kid felt threatened because the guy had a gun.
Big Baybee
Member
He shouldn't have approached the boy. He probably approached the boy in an intimidating manner. The boy may have seen that the man was armed. When the witness saw the boy beating him, they were already engaged. So it it highly likely that the guy who followed and approached the young man may very well have started the fight and got his ass kicked.
He drew it or showed it to him? Does that make sense given the man was on his back according to the witness and the incident report citing the grass stains on his back? You also just assert what procedure is. Where is this? And again I have to ask, even if he was told to stay put and he did not, does it then remove his ability to defend himself, legally?
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