• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

I completely forgot you have to pay to play online on consoles

Then why aren't you also complaining about the people bringing up "free games" when the thing OP is clearly complaining about is that he has to pay for multiplayer?
He's asking how people are alright paying for PSN and XBL. How is people mentioning their enjoyment of the free games not part and parcel of that? It's a value proposition.
 
Since people have brought it up, I'm not a fan of Sony and Microsoft gating cloud saves behind the yearly sub. It's free on Steam (some games don't support it, but the vast majority of releases after 2010 do), Origin and Uplay. There's like zero reason for Sony/Microsoft to gate it besides the fact that they can.

That is the whole point of walled gardens. Once they have your business your only options are to pay up or deal with it.

Anyway, it's too late to do anything about it. Now that Microsoft and Sony have tasted blood there's no way they'll ever let go of that juicy revenue stream from allowing access to multi-player functionality that the user has already paid for through his game purchase. It's done.
 

120v

Member
now Destiny is on PC it's a laughable proposition to me. never again

not the worst "deal" in the world, just unfortunate (ps+ that is, have no idea what xbl is like these days)
 

Pooya

Member
And that's why I barely play consoles anymore. The privilege to use my own internet to play p2p online game, 60 bucks a year? yeah no. Amazon Prime gives you shit load of value for 100 bucks a year. Console services are a big joke.
 

Estoc

Member
It's a small price to pay for many, especially when you considered that the main driving force is friends.

The "free" games just add to the loyalty factor: I will continue to pay so I can keep my "free" games, it's a great deal because I'm paying x for y games, quantity over quality any day!

For me personally, paying for online is the primary reason why I don't own neither PS4 nor Xbone. I bought a Switch to play with my friends, but I'm not sure if I'll be paying the online fee when time comes, since we would have moved onto World by then.
 
Rocket League on Xbox doesn't have cross play with PC?

It does.

I pay the whatever for XBL access. Eh, I'd rather it wasn't there, but it is. I get loads of enjoyment out of it. That, unfortunately, is contingent on me paying for access+games. I weigh up the value: I get to play Halo with old, old friends who I do not see often IRL, and I get 'free games'. I think, then I choose to buy.

I also game online on my PC. It's very nice not to pay. These two positions co-exist happily.

What I do not do is pay for multiple subs. I do not have PS+ alongside XBL.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Hm, why did you (the OP) have to play on Xbox? Rocket League has cross play between Xbox and PC, doesnt it?


There are exceptions. For instance, all MMO titles that come to Switch do not require the player to have the Online Service function, as they are already paying for a subscription based service. So you can play PSO2 and DQX without paying for Nintendo's online.
Do we know if Dragon Quest X wont require Nintendo Online subscription? How is it on PS4? I know that others MMO games doesnt require PS+ (same goes for F2P games like War Thunder and Warframe etc.). Would a Pokemon card game use a seperate subscription model?
 
And that's why I barely play consoles anymore. The privilege to use my own internet to play p2p online game, 60 bucks a year? yeah no. Amazon Prime gives you shit load of value for 100 bucks a year. Console services are a big joke.

It may for you but not for me, and that's why I barely use amazon any more.
 
I'd like to counter the OPs question with one of my own: Why do you care so much? Seriously, the price of one month of PS+/gold is negligible for anyone in the western world with a normal job. Why waster the energy of raging against a fee that's basically equivalent of a cup of coffee per month? N

I play primarily on PC, but still pay for PS+. Partly because of the included games, mostly because it's too much of a hassle to subscribe/unsubscribe whenever I actually want to play something online on console. (Which is typically once every few months).
 
As soon as there wasn't an exclusive I wanted to play multiplayer on either console, I dropped the subscription.
I had long stopped benefiting from the free games a month, I'd never play them.

It is a bit nuts in comparison frankly.
 

Jingo

Member
Its stupid but we dont have other option, the paywall is too deep in the market and people wont stop paying it cause they want to play online, i also agree you had discounts and other stuff before the paywall.

I do my part in other things that can make a diference cause games wont go away, i dont pre order for bullshit incentives, i dont buy dlcs that are just cashgrabers and i dont pay for ultimate or gold editions, i think this plague its way worse than the ps plus or xbox gold.
 
One of the reasons I am slowly moving to PC as my main gaming platform.

It's unfortunate and honestly the services they offer aren't worth it.

"Pay for the right to use our service to use your own bandwidth for P2P gaming!"
 
I think once XBL brought it in and it was accepted then it was pretty much game over. It also showed a console's core audience will vigorously defend the cost.

It provided a competitive advantage.

If you're paying for it compared to a free service then there's that feeling you have to use it to get your money's worth. You can also paint a free service as useless, even if it works just as well.

Second console ownership now comes with an extra cost if you want to play online. So if you get in there first you're looking good.

The genie is simply out of the bottle, and it carries bags of cash. I wonder if it also helped drive the whole games as a service model, trying to get frequent recurring payments for smaller content drops, rather than the risk of releasing new games.
 

Planet

Member
I paid below €3 per month for PS Plus (a good while upfront now). This gives me access to premium features like cloud saves and Share Play, also many discounts that alone offset the entry fee in some months, plus a number of included "free" games.In the past I paid other internet services more money for less entertainment value.
 
And the same people that complain about this probably use spotify or iTunes or Netflicks etc... Give me a break.

Try again. Your comparison might make sense if Netflix was a service that was the only way to watch the extra features on the blurays you already purchased.
 
I paid below €3 per month for PS Plus (a good while upfront now). This gives me access to premium features like cloud saves and Share Play, also many discounts that alone offset the entry fee in some months, plus a number of included "free" games.In the past I paid other internet services more money for less entertainment value.

Why are cloud saves a premium feature same as well as Shareplay?
Cloud Saves are mostly 12kb files saved on a server. Its like saying stuff like hotmail, gmail, yahoomail etc. are premium e-mail hosters.

Those are free on PC since what seems like forever.
 

AzaK

Member
Yeah it's bullshit. I got so pissed off I cancelled my PSN sub earlier this year. Nintendo have come and said they're charging now which is bullshit too. It's cheaper and hopefully I can just buy it for a few months when the next Mario Kart comes out. Other than that there's little need of online on a Nintendo console.
 

illamap

Member
I don't really sweat about paying little over 3 euros a month to play online games and sometimes getting good free games. Yeah i wish there was more competition in console space more than 2 providers for consoles.
 

Audioboxer

Member
It is bullshit and Sony putting their PS+ prices up recently was.......

One can only hope this industry cannot get worse, but it seems to be. Everything is now loot boxes and microtransactions on top.

The services are decent but it should be the bells and whistles that are sub based, not basic online play. As I'm getting older outside of one or two MP games I'm basically just becoming a grumpy SP gamer only. I have less time for gaming anyway.
 

Snoopycat

Banned
I've got Xbox live and PS+. It's annoying but at least when I play online I don't have to worry about playing against hackers.
 

SomTervo

Member
"Free games" you have to continue paying on a service to keep. Oh boy, thank you Sony. May I have another?

- Most games you'll only play once (at least most of the free ones)
- they're easily beatable within your subscription
- if you unsubscribe and later fancy playing one it'll cost a fiver to do so, which including the original price will bring it to like six bucks total - less than if you bought the game yourself
- they cost you like a buck each if you subscribe annually

(not defending paying for online as a whole which is shitty especially when the services aren't amazing, but the "free content is only rented" excuse is bull. For all intents and purposes they're yours)
 

Planet

Member
Those are free on PC since what seems like forever.
You can flawlessly stream any game on your friend's computer to your computer and play together with your friend?

Cloud saves, sure, some services offer that like Steam or GOG (don't know if that works well). If you buy your game on e.g. Humble Bundle though you need to manually copy your save to a storage of your choice (if you want it backed up there).
 
I've got Xbox live and PS+. It's annoying but at least when I play online I don't have to worry about playing against hackers.

There are "hacks" (mostly nuking) out on Console e.g. for Overwatch.

You can flawlessly stream any game on your friend's computer to your computer and play together with your friend?

You can do that since over 10 years with certain programs if you have a good connection.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
It does.

I pay the whatever for XBL access. Eh, I'd rather it wasn't there, but it is. I get loads of enjoyment out of it. That, unfortunately, is contingent on me paying for access+games. I weigh up the value: I get to play Halo with old, old friends who I do not see often IRL, and I get 'free games'. I think, then I choose to buy.

I also game online on my PC. It's very nice not to pay. These two positions co-exist happily.

What I do not do is pay for multiple subs. I do not have PS+ alongside XBL.

I wasn't sure if it had cross play. I'm wagering that OP skipped the paywall and bought RL on PC to play with his/her friends.

Unfortunately I had to waste money on PSN this year. My daughter wanted Titanfall 2 last Christmas. I think it was used about a month :(

This Black Friday it looks like I'll be getting CoD WWII on it, but I'll probably only buy three months worth instead of a year. Feels shitty paying, but even worse when it's not being used.
 

Planet

Member
You can do that since over 10 years with certain programs if you have a good connection.
The good connection on both sides is mandatory for sure. But I heavily doubt that it works well with each and every game. Whenever I read about PC streaming it's "that works, that doesn't" or "problems with these games" or "only with an Nvidia graphics card" and surely it affects performance of the host (on PS4 it doesn't, not the slightest bit).
 
You can flawlessly stream any game on your friend's computer to your computer and play together with your friend?

Cloud saves, sure, some services offer that like Steam or GOG (don't know if that works well). If you buy your game on e.g. Humble Bundle though you need to manually copy your save to a storage of your choice (if you want it backed up there).


With Nvidia GPUs, yes.
If you buy your game on Humble Bundle you get a Steam key. So Steam cloud
 
And the same people that complain about this probably use spotify or iTunes or Netflicks etc... Give me a break.


Your point being ? Dont you get to choose the content on these platforms ?
And no, I use none of these. Too bad.


Bro, it's like 75p a week. It's the cost of a chocolate bar.

Get over it.




It's about principles. Online play isnt a service they provide. It'd be like someone asking you to pay 75p to be allowed to use something they dont provide. Do you have anyone asking you to pay 75p to be allowed to drink the water you just bought ?
 

dude

dude
I just thought about buying a PS4 last month, but then I remembered I'd have to pay for online and it sort of soured me on the idea. I'm not a huge online gamer, but I'd like to have the option to play online should I want to - Which makes paying for online that much more annoying. I don't play online enough to want to pay for it, but I don't want to be locked into single player for the few games I do want to play online and for games like Bloodborne.
I feel like charging for online mainly creates an artificial distinction between the "online gamers" and "Single player gamers", and that's a huge shame, especially as more games experiment with innovative online components inside what is a "single player" experience.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
And the same people that complain about this probably use spotify or iTunes or Netflicks etc... Give me a break.
Its about value proposition. Some people feel that something is worth it, others dont. Its not too much to argue about in that regards since its a matter of personal opinion.


You can't create a party across platforms, it's only for random matchmaking.
I see. Thanks for the info :)


It's about principles. Online play isnt a service they provide. It'd be like someone asking you to pay 75p to be allowed to use something they dont provide. Do you have anyone asking you to pay 75p to be allowed to drink the water you just bought ?
Theres also first party games with online :p And all connection (maybe not with MMO?) goes through their servers. Not going to argue about costs and all that, but its also using their service.


I feel like charging for online mainly creates an artificial distinction between the "online gamers" and "Single player gamers", and that's a huge shame, especially as more games experiment with innovative online components inside what is a "single player" experience.
In what way do you mean? Its up to each person to choose if they want to pay that fee or not if they want to play online. Its not like a big hurdle, people just choose not to pay, so their interest in playing online is probably not too big to begin with.
 
Theres also first party games with online :p And all connection (maybe not with MMO?) goes through their servers. Not going to argue about costs and all that, but its also using their service.



Right, quick question.
You have three people. One playing on Xbox One, one on PS4, one on PC.
They are playing Rocket League. Two are paying to play online. One isnt. They're on the same servers.

I'm curious to know now what's the explanation for this.

As for servers cost for first party games, some games use P2P and for the servers... Well it's in the game cost. People paid for a game which includes online play.



Its about value proposition. Some people feel that something is worth it, others dont. Its not too much to argue about in that regards since its a matter of personal opinion.



No it's not. It's about the service provided. I would have no problem with PS+ or XBLG being just a renting game service. But hiding Online play behind is just an anticonsumer measure to force people into it because in the end, Sony and Microsoft arent providing the online play service. They just confiscate it for the sake of it.

Although my point with the poster quoted is semantics. It's not free when you pay. And there's a difference between these services which you know beforehand what you're renting.
 

ironmang

Member
Even though it's not a lot of money and I'm used to it, every time my sub runs out I ask myself why I'm still paying for this shit. Next time I build a new PC I'm probably going to just move totally away from console MP. It's already way less interesting due to everybody being in party chat and recently CSGO and PUBG just dump on every console shooter.

Lol, this is a joke, right?

Eh, it's really one of the few things console gaming has going for it along with being cheaper and easier to use. Hackers and even people with superior systems just aren't really things you need to worry about on console. It's pretty much undeniable that hacks on PC are way more accessible than on console and it carries less risk since all you'd need to do is make a new steam login and you're free to keep cheating.
 
The horror!

It's a cheap cost for a lot of value. What's the issue?

The issue is if you just want to play one certain game with your friends, like Rocket League, you still have to pay 60€ to play online if you dont care for all the other stuff.

Stuff like Cloud-Saves arent a premium feature and should be standard nowadays without paying for it. If you are buying Game ABC from PSN, Sony gets a 30% cut, that should be used for the servers and cloud-saves. Downloading a 50GB game doesnt cost anything, uploading a 12kb save or lets say even 100MB save for Bethesda games and redownloading it with a specified path should cost money?
 
Bought PES on PS4 until my graphics card comes back from repair and I refuse to buy ps+. I've just been using 2 day trials on all my accounts to hold me over
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Right, quick question.
You have three people. One playing on Xbox One, one on PS4, one on PC.
They are playing Rocket League. Two are paying to play online. One isnt. They're on the same servers.

I'm curious to know now what's the explanation for this.

As for servers cost for first party games, some games use P2P and for the servers... Well it's in the game cost. People paid for a game which includes online play.
Because two of them know that they can get payed and take that opportunity, nothing more too it than that. The reason why commented on what you said is because you said that they didnt provide a service related to online play.
 
It's about principles. Online play isnt a service they provide. It'd be like someone asking you to pay 75p to be allowed to use something they dont provide. Do you have anyone asking you to pay 75p to be allowed to drink the water you just bought ?

I use the PSN network almost every day when chatting to friends so I attribute the cost more to that personally, when the console itself is sold at a loss I don't begrudge them for PS+. Especially with the games being thrown in, it honestly makes it worth the cost for me. Principles don't enter the equation when you're happy with the service provided.
 
Top Bottom