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34,000 pieces of Wii U software were sold in the UK in January (incl. NintyLand)

S

Steve Youngblood

Member
JoeM86 said:
They just have to build that though and, as you know, that takes time.

Shipping 3 million units and selling 2 million in the first two months is not bad at all. As noted earlier, it's better than the others did and just worse than the Wii.

Yeah they dropped their estimates, which were ridiculously high, but it's by no means dire.

I seriously don't see why developers are dropping at such an early juncture.
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Because you're not looking at the situation correctly. You keep pointing at relative launch numbers as a meaningful indicator when they clearly aren't. The current situation is bad. Even Nintendo is aware of this.

The 360 could afford a slow buildup as they defined the new generation. The PS3 was a disaster that nobody should be using as a metric where beating it is a success. The Wii U really needs to be carving its niche right now, not in a year from now when there's even more competition.
 
B

Baconsammy

Banned
Mario said:
Yep. Nintendo has been surprisingly a leader here by all accounts.

Without the install base though, that doesn't count for much.
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Do devs care at all about how awful Nintendo's account system is? Or is that something just customers care about? Does it factor at all into the decision to put a game on their console/handheld? *edit* Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why it would even factor in. You'd make more money if someone was forced to buy your game twice.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
JoeM86 said:
They just have to build that though and, as you know, that takes time.

...

I seriously don't see why developers are dropping at such an early juncture.
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If they can't make money now, why would they support it now? Chicken and egg problem.


Baconsammy said:
Do devs care at all about how awful Nintendo's account system is? Or is that something just customers care about? Does it factor at all into the decision to put a game on their console/handheld? *edit* Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why it would even factor in. You'd make more money if someone was forced to buy your game twice.
Click to expand...

Apart from the clunkiness of the Wii stuff years ago, haven't ever really had a dev complaining much about any account based stuff over more pressing issues. Hasn't impacted any business decision I'm aware off (there was debate about the PS3 game sharing stuff).
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Mario said:
If they can't make money now, why would they support it now? Chicken and egg problem.
Click to expand...

As you know though, indies are far less risk adverse than larger publishers, and DD only is a really good fit for indies.

Being a Geometry Wars or a World Of Goo or even a Super Stardust pays off big, even on an initially small userbase.
 
H

H_Prestige

Banned
Things would be much better if nintendo designed the system differently. Ditch this low power consumption idea and make a bigger console. They should have never bothered with this costly tablet controller nonsense. Instead just make the Pro controller the actual controller, and use the saved money to beef up the rest of the system. Go with a similar APU as found in orbis/durango. Push the launch back to 2013 for more time to get software/OS sorted. Bam, you've immediately got a system that's way more attractive to third parties since it jives with their development plans, and something that could compete with ps4/720.
 
T

teiresias

Member
Foffy said:
I'm not so sure. If they can create an ecosystem where Japanese games can thrive more easily in the world, they can create a platform that's a hardcore gamers' dream come true. So many games are left in Japan, a lot that people here on GAF care about. Having those games and franchises localized on a Nintendo platform can make it an easier bullet for the core to support, given the aftertaste of the Wii.

That depends on how much Nintendo extends their hand to other Japanese studios, however. The ball is in their court to make their platform enticing to consumers. And it seems consumers don't currently think the platform is a worthwhile investment.
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What fantasy-realm version of Nintendo are you basing this hypothetical on? Reggie basically had to be internet-bullied into releasing a game that ALREADY had an English localization in the US and now you expect this same regional office of Nintendo to embrace some Japanese-centric development plan depending on niche Japanese games getting localizations? Good luck with that.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
H_Prestige said:
Things would be much better if nintendo designed the system differently. Ditch this low power consumption idea and make a bigger console. They should have never bothered with this costly tablet controller nonsense. Instead just make the Pro controller the actual controller, and use the saved money to beef up the rest of the system. Go with a similar APU as found in orbis/durango. Push the launch back to 2013 for more time to get software/OS sorted. Bam, you've immediately got a system that's way more attractive to third parties since it jives with their development plans, and something that could compete with ps4/720.
Click to expand...

Then Bam, you have no differentiation and get Sega Saturned by the competition
 
H

H_Prestige

Banned
MrNyarlathotep said:
Then Bam, you have no differentiation and get Sega Saturned by the competition
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The differentiation would be first party software, which Nintendo can easily match up with MS/Sony, if not beat. Sega was weak.

Problem is that Nintendo keeps putting themselves in a losing situation where it's their own first party versus entire third party industry and MS/Sony first party. When it doesn't need to be like that. I think this is the result of Iwata.
 
F

Foffy

Banned
teiresias said:
What fantasy-realm version of Nintendo are you basing this hypothetical on? Reggie basically had to be internet-bullied into releasing a game that ALREADY had an English localization in the US and now you expect this same regional office of Nintendo to embrace some Japanese-centric development plan depending on niche Japanese games getting localizations? Good luck with that.
Click to expand...

Nintendo has said, this year in fact, that they tend to collaborate with Japanese companies to release various third party franchises internationally on 3DS. This isn't so much a hypothetical as it is more of how far will Nintendo go with this approach. The same goes with teaming up with companies to make games.

What I speak of isn't fantasy, but something Iwata himself has implied. Maybe the nightmare period you speak of with Nintendo is changing.
 
R

royalan

Member
Those who have been paying attention to Nintendo's movements the last few years have been calling that Nintendo was sacrificing their position in the long-term for short-term profit. They've time and time again neglected the importance of 3rd party support and fostering a loyal and stong base. I think the Wii U is the point where Nintendo's finally paying the piper for years of shortsighted decision-making and I honestly don't think any one thing will quickly turn this around.

This E3 will be truly make or break. If the support isn't there, if the convincing software isn't there...I think at that point it'll be safe to "call it" on Wii U.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
H_Prestige said:
The differentiation would be first party software, which Nintendo can easily match up with MS/Sony, if not beat.
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Right.

Like the phenomenal success that was the GC.
Blame Iwata for correctly identifying a successful business strategy all you want.

royalan said:
This E3 will be truly make or break. If the support isn't there, if the convincing software isn't there...I think at that point it'll be safe to "call it" on Wii U.
Click to expand...

That's still too soon.

You're not going to be able to get an actual overview of the market and Nintendos place in it until 6-8 months after both the Orbis and Durango launches.
 
H

H_Prestige

Banned
MrNyarlathotep said:
Right.

Like the phenomenal success that was the GC.
Blame Iwata for correctly identifying a successful business strategy all you want.
Click to expand...

Uh, the GC is exactly the situation I described, where it's nintendo by itself.

I'm saying they need to create their own version of the ps4/720. Which is not hard to do. The technology is there. Only thing getting in the way is boneheaded management.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Sandfox said:
That's not exactly correct, but if Nintendo did that I feel that it would cause Microsoft and Sony to get more aggressive with their money.
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so Dreamcasted rather than Saturned.

H_Prestige said:
Uh, the GC is exactly the situation I described, where it's nintendo by itself.
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The hypothetical situation you described is the GC on paper.
What actually happens in that scenario - as both rivals money hat third parties to fuck you up - is the reality
 
S

scar tissue

Banned
Kenka said:
zX0TA.gif
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iFxOuUzXbXMQG.gif
 
H

H_Prestige

Banned
MrNyarlathotep said:
so Dreamcasted rather than Saturned.



The hypothetical situation you described is the GC on paper.
What actually happens in that scenario - as both rivals money hat third parties to fuck you up - is the reality
Click to expand...

Moneyhatting is not practical anymore. If it were, you'd see a lot more third party exclusives on 360 and ps3 by now.

Xbox also got fucked up by the ps2 and had a problem with third party releases. But look at the 360 now.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Dreamcast had a frightful amount of entirely new first party character driven IP though :D
 
A

apana

Member
Nintendo should just have done a Wii 2 instead of Wii U. Somehwat more powerful console, advanced motion controls, and maybe a regular controller also. You don't always need to innovate, sometimes it is enough to build on an idea.

Also I don't think Nintendo will respond to bad sales by making their next console more powerful. They will likely try to cut costs even more and make sure the console is profitable day one. I definitely see the successor to 3DS being as low powered and cheap to produce as possible.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Pie and Beans said:
Dreamcast had a frightful amount of entirely new first party character driven IP though :D
Click to expand...

Hooray, we got some first party character driven IP in a short burst of last ditch effort, and then nostalgia over what that company used to be as that golden goose killed itself in a desperate bid to appease a fickle gaming public that are never happy.

I'd have preferred a Sega that's still making hardware today but that played a bit more safely when they should have.
 
J

javac

Member
MrNyarlathotep said:
Hooray, we got some first party character driven IP in a short burst of last ditch effort, and then nostalgia over what that company used to be as that golden goose killed itself in a desperate bid to appease a fickle gaming public that are never happy.
Click to expand...

Its funny, most people didn't care about the Dreamcast, hence its abysmal sales throughout its short lived life. All of a sudden its the most loved console ever. Weird huh?
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
apana said:
Nintendo should just have done a Wii 2 instead of Wii U. Somehwat more powerful console, advanced motion controls, and maybe a regular controller also. You don't always need to innovate, sometimes it is enough to build on an idea.
Click to expand...

You assume that the market wanted more motion controls. I always assumed that Nintendo did market research and saw declines customer desire to play games with motion control, hence them moving away from it.
 
Q

qq more

Member
javac said:
Its funny, most people didn't care about the Dreamcast, hence its abysmal sales throughout its short lived life. All of a sudden its the most loved console ever. Weird huh?
Click to expand...

I always assumed it was just the fans being loud (not that that's bad or anything). Dreamcast was definitely awesome while it lasted though. :(
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
javac said:
Its funny, most people didn't care about the Dreamcast, hence its abysmal sales throughout its short lived life. All of a sudden its the most loved console ever. Weird huh?
Click to expand...

Well, it was selling 'okay' - not great, but not terribly - but was losing money on every piece of hardware sold, because gamers were so vocal about how expensive the Saturn was.

It wasn't selling much software to offset that.
EA were actively fucking them over.
A lot of the gaming public had predecided that the next Sony console was going to absolutely annihilate it on power terms based on some prerenders shown months in advance of any actual hardware being seen.

It had a weird controller with a screen in the middle of it. And a quirky 'sega style' online community hub.

Parallels.
 
R

royalan

Member
...can we stop pretending like software was the cause of the Dreamcast's demise? I mean, short of EA famously giving it the cold shoulder, games weren't what killed the Dreamcast. In fact, one thing I will always credit Sega with over Nintendo was their understanding that THEY had to supply the games 3rd Parties wouldn't. Sega had a gloriously diverse software lineup to pick up 3rd party slack going back to even the Genesis. Nintendo should take notes.

It was EVERYTHING ELSE that killed Dreamcast.
 
O

outunderthestars

Banned
royalan said:
...can we stop pretending like software was the cause of the Dreamcast's demise? I mean, short of EA famously giving it the cold shoulder, games weren't what killed the Dreamcast. In fact, one thing I will always credit Sega with over Nintendo was their understanding that THEY had to supply the games 3rd Parties wouldn't. Sega had a gloriously diverse software lineup to pick up 3rd party slack going back to even the Genesis. Nintendo should take notes.

It was EVERYTHING ELSE that killed Dreamcast.
Click to expand...

How so? If it is a lack of games that is making the Vita and Wii U sell poorly, how could a library of awesome Dreamcast games not propel the Dreamcast to massive popularity?
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
javac said:
Its funny, most people didn't care about the Dreamcast, hence its abysmal sales throughout its short lived life. All of a sudden its the most loved console ever. Weird huh?
Click to expand...

'Most people'. Playing industry leading stuff like Jet Set Radio, Shenmue, Skies of Arcadia and more, a veritable sack of Capcom content (they love a good failing console it seems) and then playing PSO online with people all around the world for just the price of my internet connection in 2001, you'd best belief its a fucking much loved console. Shit was absolutely astounding.

Would that Nintendo could ever deliver such a generation of non-stop wow as Sega did with their last hardware hurrah.
 
S

Snaku

Banned
MrNyarlathotep said:
Hooray, we got some first party character driven IP in a short burst of last ditch effort, and then nostalgia over what that company used to be as that golden goose killed itself in a desperate bid to appease a fickle gaming public that are never happy.

I'd have preferred a Sega that's still making hardware today but that played a bit more safely when they should have.
Click to expand...

Their only mistake with the Dreamcast was the omission of a DVD drive. Beat Sony to the market as the cheapest DVD player in Japan and America and Sega would still be making consoles.
 
J

javac

Member
MrNyarlathotep said:
Well, it was selling 'okay' - not great, but not terribly - but was losing money on every piece of hardware sold, because gamers were so vocal about how expensive the Saturn was.

It wasn't selling much software to offset that.
EA were actively fucking them over.
A lot of the gaming public had predecided that the next Sony console was going to absolutely annihilate it on power terms based on some prerenders shown months in advance of any actual hardware being seen.

It had a weird controller with a screen in the middle of it. And a quirky 'sega style' online community hub.

Parallels.
Click to expand...

Haha, when you put it like that!
 
J

jcm

Member
Ash_69 said:
As many have already said, Nintendo deserve this for their weak ass system with no games. You could have sympathy for Sega with the dreamcast as they invested heavily in tech and had a slew of awesome games.

Nintendo's profiteering has got to its head. The brand value isn't that good that we'll all buy the system regardless.
Click to expand...

Nintendo hasn't made a profit in years. Whatever they are doing wrong, it ain't profiteering.
 
L

liger05

Member
royalan said:
...can we stop pretending like software was the cause of the Dreamcast's demise? I mean, short of EA famously giving it the cold shoulder, games weren't what killed the Dreamcast. In fact, one thing I will always credit Sega with over Nintendo was their understanding that THEY had to supply the games 3rd Parties wouldn't. Sega had a gloriously diverse software lineup to pick up 3rd party slack going back to even the Genesis. Nintendo should take notes.

It was EVERYTHING ELSE that killed Dreamcast.
Click to expand...

Co sign.

Sega stepped up to the plate software wise with the dreamcast.
 
D

Dali

Member
MrNyarlathotep said:
Right.

Like the phenomenal success that was the GC.
Blame Iwata for correctly identifying a successful business strategy all you want.



That's still too soon.

You're not going to be able to get an actual overview of the market and Nintendos place in it until 6-8 months after both the Orbis and Durango launches.
Click to expand...

Yeah at this point, shy of Nintendo bagging exclusive rights to HUGE 3rd party titles, I don't see them shaking their rep of being a Mario box devoid of a wealth of top quality 3rd party titles. Their next console could match the PS5 and X60 Infinity spec for spec, ditch any ideas of oddball designs, and have a fully functional online component comparable to the competition and people would still look at it suspect because.... well... because Nintendo.
 
A

ascii42

Member
Snaku said:
Their only mistake with the Dreamcast was the omission of a DVD drive. Beat Sony to the market as the cheapest DVD player in Japan and America and Sega would still be making consoles.
Click to expand...

It came out too early for that. It was out in Japan in 1998. A DVD player would have been very pricey. The Dreamcast's lack of a second analog stick also would also have hurt it eventually, as well as its smaller game discs. So maybe a DVD drive would have been necessary

Here's my scenario for Dreamcast's success.

Step 1: Don't release 32x
Step 2: Saturn is more successful because of lack of 32x
Step 3: Release Dreamcast later in Japan and America, after you've learned of the wonders of the dual shock controller and DVD. Dreamcast is more popular because Saturn was more popular
Step 4: Profit?
 
S

Snaku

Banned
ascii42 said:
It came out too early for that. It was out in Japan in 1998. A DVD player would have been very pricey. The Dreamcast's lack of a second analog stick also would also have hurt it eventually, as well as its smaller game discs. So maybe a DVD drive would have been necessary

Here's my scenario for Dreamcast's success.

Step 1: Don't release 32x
Step 2: Saturn is more successful because of lack of 32x
Step 3: Release Dreamcast later in Japan, after you've learned of the wonders of the dual shock controller and DVD
Step 4: Profit?
Click to expand...

The 32x and Saturn's failure were necessary mistakes that Sega needed to learn from for the Dreamcast to be a true gamer's machine, and couldn't be undone without a time machine.

Even in 1998 DVD was was clearly the future of home video. Sega just didn't want spare the expense.
 
D

Devilgunman

Member
This low software sales really worries me. I want to have WiiU to play MH: Ultimate and have no interest in 1st party games. With the situation the WiiU is in right now, it would be insane if Capcom don't port the game to others platforms. Maybe I should wait and see how things turn out before pulling a trigger?
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Devilgunman said:
This low software sales really worries me. I want to have WiiU to play MH: Ultimate and have no interest in 1st party games. With the situation the WiiU is in right now, it would be insane if Capcom don't port the game to others platforms. Maybe I should wait and see how things turn out before pulling a trigger?
Click to expand...
If Nintendo is going to recover anywhere it will be Japan which is where Monster Hunter's biggest fanbase is. They not see the need to port it. Besides, isn't it seen as more of a portable game.
 
J

jcm

Member
BGBW said:
Aren't they back in the black and profit wise they have performed better consistently than the other two.
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Not on an operating basis. The profit last quarter was entirely due to recalculating their overseas accounts in yen. If you have 10 dollars in the bank, and the exchange rate is 100 to 1, then you have 1000 yen. Then, the exchange rate moves to 110 to 1, so you have 1100 yen. That's 100 yen profit, and that's what Nintendo did last quarter, on a much larger scale. Meanwhile, their actual business selling video games lost money.

For two years now nintendo has been the least profitable gaming hardware company on the planet. Of course, for 4 years before that, they were by a ton the most profitable. These things can change quickly.

Anyway, I don't see how you can accuse them fairly of profiteering.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Devilgunman said:
This low software sales really worries me. I want to have WiiU to play MH: Ultimate and have no interest in 1st party games. With the situation the WiiU is in right now, it would be insane if Capcom don't port the game to others platforms. Maybe I should wait and see how things turn out before pulling a trigger?
Click to expand...
you bought a wiiU and you have no interest in 1st party games?

You are a brave soul.
 
R

royalan

Member
outunderthestars said:
How so? If it is a lack of games that is making the Vita and Wii U sell poorly, how could a library of awesome Dreamcast games not propel the Dreamcast to massive popularity?
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We didn't realize what we had until it was gone. ;___;

Seriously, there was a buildup of several factors over a time period spanning gens that caused Dreamcast sales to slump and Sega to bow out of the hardware business. However, the quality of its software was not one of them. The Dreamcast had a fucking fabulous lineup of games. It pains me to even think about, really.
 
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