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Destiny 2 Beta |OT| Garry's Mod

What's the best class?

Results are only viewable after voting.
T

Tei

Neo Member
Z3M0G said:
That's fine. Just to clarify though, you left out the option that applies to me: Don't have the lifestyle to sit down for 2-3 hour gaming session to do a Raid (Edit: nevermind, you seem to have removed that part of the post)

I usually play games in 15-30 min sessions. I squeeze them in when I can.
Click to expand...

I understand this but games need to cater to people that actually play them a bit more than people that don't really but would. Is still a positive if the make can be fun in short burst, like some cool stuff in patrols, or make the assaults 10 minutes in length has much.

Maybe I am wrong here, but I don't think people want long assaults.
 
G

gattsu

Member
wild wild rice said:
Yes, raids can definitely be fun, but just in terms of the way I play games nowadays it was very difficult to find the time to organize and complete a raid, even using DGAF and Reddit, etc.

15 years ago I would have loved them. Now I rarely game for more than 20-30 minutes at a time. So of course they are a valuable aspect of the franchise, just not one that is very practical for me personally.
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So you criticize a game for doing nothing new, but at the same time acknowledge that you don't engage in the major tenant of the game that makes it new/different?

That's cool if you don't have time to do it. Lots of people don't. But if you wanted an answer to "what makes this game different than wolfenstein/doom/overwatch", that's the answer, dude.
 
D

Dynamic3

Member
I still don't quite understand the interplay/calculation for attack and impact. Is it possible for a weapon with a lower attack yet higher impact deal more damage?
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Dynamic3 said:
I still don't quite understand the interplay/calculation for attack and impact. Is it possible for a weapon with a lower attack yet higher impact deal more damage?
Click to expand...

Yes... but the attack difference would be very minimal. You can think of impact as being a percentage multiplier to the attack value.


You should only compare impact to similar attack weapons in the same type. Auto rifles are the best example of this. There are certain "archetypes" of automatics and it's generally a tradeoff of impact vs ROF.

There are high impact auto rifles that fire slower, so each bullet does more damage. And low impact, high ROF auto rifles where its a bullethose of low damage bullets at a faster rate.
 
EL CUCO

EL CUCO

Member
Deku Tree said:
Dual primaries was a worse mistake than dual wielding was in H2.

This is the kind of super bad decision that happens when your main crucible designers don’t play the game for fun at a high level and when they design via spread sheet and by counting reddit upvotes.

Do I really have to wait until D3 for Bungie to reverse this horrible design decision?
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Sadly, it seems like that'll be the case. I'd imagine the enitre game is balanced around dual primaries at this point
 
M

misterck

Member
So now that's it's known that there's going to be 10 PvP maps and 5 game modes at launch what's everybody's thoughts on this?

10 seems a decent amount to me but as they said each map would be designed around a specific game mode I wonder how that's going to affect the maps in rotation in each of the 5 game modes.
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
Deku Tree said:
Dual primaries was a worse mistake than dual wielding was in H2.

This is the kind of super bad decision that happens when your main crucible designers don’t play the game for fun at a high level and when they design via spread sheet and by counting reddit upvotes.

Do I really have to wait until D3 for Bungie to reverse this horrible design decision?
Click to expand...

Can you expand on this at all?

Right now I disagree purely based on how it actually feels to play PVP overall, but this could be due to a number of factors and obviously the final game will influence this.
 
T

The Jazz Cabbage Master

Member
After playing the beta for a pretty decent amount of time I can say firmly that I'm waiting for word of mouth before I buy. As a PVE only player the new weapon system kinda made the game less fantastical. In D1, Having a pistol, shotgun sliding, and a solid heavy felt so good for me, now I just switch between two primaries and pepper away. I felt that there was this unique flow to D1 combat. I could hit targets from a distance, push in with shotgun slides for close encounters and pull out my heavy if shit got hairy. I still enjoyed my time, i just need to see how all the final balancing plays a role in the final games flow of combat.
 
T

Tei

Neo Member
I still don't know why I want two primaries, in PvP or PvE.

But I guess a reason may appear later. Like some unique primary that is useful in some way and not other. But thats what special weapons where for.

Maybe the system make sense but nobody has actually taken time to explain it to us, so we dont know yet.

I could see... how somebody would want to have a good scout rifle (So none of the current scout rifles) and a handcanon. That would be good for pve, is a short distance weapon and a long distance one. For PvP if the maps are so small like the ones we see, having the pistol all the time could be enough. Maybe somebody can empty a mag on one weapon, then change to the other one, before they need to reload. ...uhhhhh.... durrr.. No idea.
 
D

Drencrom

Member
The fact that shotguns can't be used as a primary weapon anymore is so dumb, the shotguns were the most fun weapon in D1 imo and now they are in the special weapon slot and use heavy ammo...
 
D

Disker

Member
The peer to peer connection is still horrible, hit detection is all over the place.

Nope, i was exited for this game but i won't buy games that praise their own multiplayer and still mess up this bad.

And still many quality to life things that i would like to see havent been implemented (why still one emote slot c'mon that is bullshit)
 
G

Gator86

Member
Drencrom said:
The fact that shotguns can't be used as a primary weapon anymore is so dumb, the shotguns were the most fun weapon in D1 imo and now they are in the special weapon slot and use heavy ammo...
Click to expand...

Bungie couldn't balance them so they took them away. That's basically the core design principle for D2. Can't balance it? Remove it. Bye, class customization, shotties and Snipes, randomized loot, etc.
 
J

JackHerer

Member
The enemy design (the fallen designs/animations are particularly nice) and environment design (Nessus looks incredible to me, particularly all the red foliage) are both a solid step up from the last game IMO.

The encounter design is better, the inverted spire was full of three way battles, faction vs faction vs gaurdians, that occasionally came up in the first game. It's just shame that it's all primaries all day for the most part, making it feel very repetitive. I know I will really miss the interplay between primary + sniper/fusion/shotty + sword/rockets/HMG in PvE. I wish they would have kept it as is and tried a new system just for PvP.

I will say that so far the weapon design looks to be a step-up as well at least in terms of aesthetics. A lot of the legendaries LOOK like they could be exotics. They have that custom designed feel that most exotics have, rather than the mostly cookie cutter designs for purples in D1. Seems like this game will have a lot more unique weapon models.
 
T

Tei

Neo Member
JackHerer said:
The enemy design (the fallen designs/animations are particularly nice) and environment design (Nessus looks incredible to me, particularly all the red foliage) are both a solid step up from the last game IMO.
Click to expand...

The design is very good from a graphic perspective.

I was surprised to see burning vex structures in Nesssus. All of the vex planets looks so stale, as if where build and abandoned a few million years ago (and probably, they did).

But we have only seen a few areas. The arenas in the assault miss some safe areas, it made the bullshit in the assault more bullshit.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Drencrom said:
The fact that shotguns can't be used as a primary weapon anymore is so dumb, the shotguns were the most fun weapon in D1 imo and now they are in the special weapon slot and use heavy ammo...
Click to expand...

To be fair though, shotguns WRECK in this game. They are similar in power to the great shotgun PvE buff in Destiny 1. Back when you could melt majors and boss characters with stuff like the 4th Horseman.

With the increased heavy ammo in the full game they will be usefull again.
 
V

vort3x

Member
I know this is beta and stuff might change but Incase they do not, Im glad I only pre-ordered the basic version. I do not see my self playing this past the base game. I played destiny 1 all the way until TTK. I did not play the last dlc with siva. I'm giving it a shot only because a few of my real friends will be playing this. I loved D1 mp when it wasnt laggy. I probably won't be playing D2 pvp if it's as slow as in the beta. There are weird delays in the game itself and corner camping is very high already. The lag makes it so that, you are around a corner on the enemy screen before you are on yours. 2017 and they can't use dedicated servers. Amazing.

I do not like the dual primary system. It's pointless. They wanted to balance PvP and in process have ruined pve. I loved the raiding aspect and Im not sure how it'll be now. The beta story part was fun but again feels more of the same with prettier graphics, as does the strike which isn't that bad but really doesn't bode well for the future. If their goal is to make money from DLCs, they're definitely not getting mine this time around if this is how it's going to be.
 
G

Gator86

Member
Tawpgun said:
To be fair though, shotguns WRECK in this game. They are similar in power to the great shotgun PvE buff in Destiny 1. Back when you could melt majors and boss characters with stuff like the 4th Horseman.

With the increased heavy ammo in the full game they will be usefull again.
Click to expand...

Seems hard to imagine bringing a shotgun for higher end stuff though, especially once Bungie's patented difficulty balancing (all enemies are endless bullet sponges/you die instantly if touched by anything) is in play. Definitely seems like it'd be easier/safer to just use rockets when in need of big damage. The two primary system is trash that exists for no other reason than attempted PvP balancing.
 
Raven117

Raven117

Member
I really, really, want to know the design choices behind the double primary thing as it relates to pve. I get why in pvp.

This was obviously discussed at Bungie, more than likely ad nauseam in how this will effect pve. IN a non-spin way, I'd like to hear how they account for it...be it either through design of the encounters or otherwise.

My guess is that they want further team communication in specific roles. One guy be the rocket guy, one guy be the sniper, one guy be the etc...

Just dont' know how that will play out encounters-wise.

Guess we will all find out together in Sept!
 
S

Shock32

Member
Gator86 said:
Seems hard to imagine bringing a shotgun for higher end stuff though, especially once Bungie's patented difficulty balancing (all enemies are endless bullet sponges/you die instantly if touched by anything) is in play. Definitely seems like it'd be easier/safer to just use rockets when in need of big damage. The two primary system is trash that exists for no other reason than attempted PvP balancing.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. Why the hell would I bring a shotgun when I can just shoot rockets or grenades across the map? Especially since they both use the same ammo pickup. By far this is the worst change, I don't ever see myself using a shotgun in D2 like did in D1. It's just not worth it in the power slot.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Gator86 said:
Seems hard to imagine bringing a shotgun for higher end stuff though, especially once Bungie's patented difficulty balancing (all enemies are endless bullet sponges/you die instantly if touched by anything) is in play. Definitely seems like it'd be easier/safer to just use rockets when in need of big damage. The two primary system is trash that exists for no other reason than attempted PvP balancing.
Click to expand...

Shotguns are great for dispatching the non boss majors. Really good for those named enemies with higher health pools.

But, they are making them more viable for bosses as well because in Destiny 1, getting close to a boss was a death sentence because every boss in D1 had a one shot 'Quake' move that killed you. In D2 they have that quake move but its more to damage you and push you away than kill you. At least the Vex boss did.
 
cucuchu

cucuchu

Member
Tei said:
What role does it play in pvp?
Click to expand...

Maybe the intent was to stop people from just camping corners/corridors with shotguns...if that was even an issue in PvP after the first year (I stopped playing right before the first expansion until recently). I know I enjoyed the variety in the viable guns when I played D1 PvP and the strategies involved to utilize as countermeasures. Then again I'm the type of person that would rather play something with more variety and maybe not quite as balanced because its keeps things fresh vs sterile and near perfectly balanced.

All in all, it just feels like they are playing things safe with Destiny 2. I don't like this direction personally but hopefully they will change course if feedback dictates it.
 
J

jmartoine

Member
misterck said:
So now that's it's known that there's going to be 10 PvP maps and 5 game modes at launch what's everybody's thoughts on this?

10 seems a decent amount to me but as they said each map would be designed around a specific game mode I wonder how that's going to affect the maps in rotation in each of the 5 game modes.
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It is better than Vanilla was at launch. But they should not be removing game types that were in D1 such as rumble.
 
Toe-Knee

Toe-Knee

Member
Overall I'm pretty happy with it but they have completely ruined hunters by replacing bladedancer with poledancer.

I loved playing the stealth hunter/res bot.

I always hated warlocks because of the stupid coat so I guess I'm playing titan haha.
 
G

Gator86

Member
Tawpgun said:
Shotguns are great for dispatching the non boss majors. Really good for those named enemies with higher health pools.

But, they are making them more viable for bosses as well because in Destiny 1, getting close to a boss was a death sentence because every boss in D1 had a one shot 'Quake' move that killed you. In D2 they have that quake move but its more to damage you and push you away than kill you. At least the Vex boss did.
Click to expand...

The strike was just a regular strike though. I'm guessing the damage ramp on the quake attacks will still one shot for higher level content, lower level guardians, etc. There's a reason so much of D1 devolved into sniping from a mile away or cheesing stuff. Encounters and boss were poorly designed. Nothing about the clumsy, giant, mortar-firing bullet sponge with a quake attack from the beta tells me Bungie has learned literally anything from the first game so I'd still expect being close to be a death sentence for anything other than the sleepwalking content.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Gator86 said:
The strike was just a regular strike though. I'm guessing the damage ramp on the quake attacks will still one shot for higher level content, lower level guardians, etc. There's a reason so much of D1 devolved into sniping from a mile away or cheesing stuff. Encounters and boss were poorly designed. Nothing about the clumsy, giant, mortar-firing bullet sponge with a quake attack from the beta tells me Bungie has learned literally anything from the first game so I'd still expect being close to be a death sentence for anything other than the sleepwalking content.
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What? It was a regular strike but that boss is a regular boss.

Of course you will get wrecked by playing high level content when you aren't the right level for it. But this boss, and I assume all the other bosses in the game, won't one shot quake you when you get close anymore. They will use that move to deal SOME damage and push you away.
 
G

Gator86

Member
Tawpgun said:
What? It was a regular strike but that boss is a regular boss.

Of course you will get wrecked by playing high level content when you aren't the right level for it. But this boss, and I assume all the other bosses in the game, won't one shot quake you when you get close anymore. They will use that move to deal SOME damage and push you away.
Click to expand...

Oh, I meant it was your standard, lower difficulty strike. The easier difficulty stuff in D1 was always incredibly easy to just sleepwalk through. I expect the scaling to ramp things up a lot and that's where shotguns will see a lot of fall-off.

That's just one specific example though, the entire issue is still emblematic of Bungie's issues. Poorly designed mechanics then cheap workarounds that make things worse (e.g., the quake attacks, shotties and snipers moved, etc.)
 
C

Chris_Rivera

Member
I love the kinetic/energy/power setup. I always felt special weapons were underused for a good amount of the game. Now, if the reason is due to not being able to balance the previous design, fine, sounds like a perfectly valid reason. I feel like they aren't caving to the hardcore, which I also love. They have no value in my book.
 
C

CrudeDiatribe

Member
Hyun Sai said:
Honestly, I find that number impressive. Especially in light of that article not so long ago showing that the stat for players finishing their games were between 30 and 60% depending of the genre.
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20% of XBox One players have completed a raid, 7% a heroic raid. It is not clear to me if the "of gamers" is anyone who has played Destiny or represents anyone who has logged into an Xbox One. Seems very high if the latter.
 
V

vort3x

Member
Correct me if I'm wrong please, I'm not a 100% sure in PvP why can I one shot a poledancer with a golden gun but I can't one shot a titan or warlock while their supers are active. Why is the hunter weaker?

Also kinda fucked up, while my golden gun is activated I can barely get around a corner before it disappears. Where ass the warlock and Titan can practically fly across maps and still have time to annihilate a team. Fn ridiculous.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Looks like my concerns regarding the arc strider talents are put to rest.

https://streamable.com/az78i

The mismatch in light level in the strike, and the common enemies from the cabal being beefier in general made it seem like it was useless.


The second arc strider tree could be interesting as well depending on how good the "confusion" effect is.

For those that don't know, the dodge will recharge quicker while sprinting, its harder to kill you in the dodge (not sure how they accomplish this) and you can couple the dodge recharges melee with the ability to disorient your hit enemy and the nearby enemies on melee HIT.

I assume in PvP this is gonna be the flashbang effect.

vort3x said:
Correct me if I'm wrong please, I'm not a 100% sure in PvP why can I one shot a poledancer with a golden gun but I can't one shot a titan or warlock while their supers are active. Why is the hunter weaker?

Also kinda fucked up, while my golden gun is activated I can barely get around a corner before it disappears. Where ass the warlock and Titan can practically fly across maps and still have time to annihilate a team. Fn ridiculous.
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1. Hunters are weaker just by class design. The beta gives you armor that prioritizes mobility over resilience,

2. The super timers need work. I feel like sentinel lasts forever and striker is very strong currently because you start with a fists of panic and then can continue running around. Sun Warlock super isn't as great as I thought it would be.

Golden gun, with the beta default tree, lasts shorter but gives you six shots. The other tree (probably) limits you to 3, but precision hits generate orbs and increase your super duration and damage,
 
Bitmap Frogs

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Gator86 said:
Bungie couldn't balance them so they took them away. That's basically the core design principle for D2. Can't balance it? Remove it. Bye, class customization, shotties and Snipes, randomized loot, etc.
Click to expand...

It's the Luke Smith school of game design: all design problems can be fixed by fucking with the players. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the slower speed was a result of concerns around map size.
 
Raven117

Raven117

Member
Tei said:
What role does it play in pvp?
Click to expand...

They didn't want people to essentially only use specials (ie, snipers and shotguns, which often were OHK).

Using only primaries slows the game down. Whether one likes the change or not, at least there is a reason for it.

I actually like it for PvP, but Im a minority on that.
 
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