Gentleman Jack
Member
What the fuck. WOW.
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Israel and Hamas might be going to war again (this time with live tweeting)
- Thread starter el retorno
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What the fuck. WOW.
Meus Renaissance
Member
They don't need to hide behind civilians to see collateral.
It is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. A missile hitting a Hamas leader driving in a car on a road will see casualties, for instance, like we see today.
The Hamas had close ties with Iran and in fact, they went on the record to say that they'll retaliate against a strike in Iran.
I still think Israel chose to strike now mainly because the election, and as I said, Israel doesn't really have the realistic ability to stop the rockets from Gaza (I say realistic because in theory they can always nuke the place), but the political connection between Hamas and Iran is very real.
Lebanon isn't as easier of a target as Gaza. Plus, The Lebanon War in 2006 didn't turn out well at all.
Yes?
In fact, that specific missile only killed the people inside the car. Some say it was that terrorist's son or bodyguard. You can actually see the I.D.F. decided to wait until the car reaches the intersection when nobody is around it until they fired.
Not anymore, Hamas is supporting Syrian Rebels against the Assad regime.
Vermillion
Banned
Read the thread his tag links to, just a few posts of it. All will become clear.
If a Palestinian had nothing to do with the rocket launches then they are innocent, plain and simple. They are real people who had real lives until they were killed. Its sad when it happens on either side.
Thanks for the tip. I shouldn't have even bothered replying to someone who thinks like that.
your tag reminds of those crazy settlers in the vice documentary.
On the matter at hand, Fuck Bibi and Likud. Would have liked to see his disappointment when Obama got reelected.
Economic suppression is not a form of terrorism?
Gentleman Jack
Member
You're a psychopath if you want to strip the civilian casualties of their non-involvement with terrorist activities.
Straight up.
Meus Renaissance
Member
All I can add to this is that there wont be peace in the Holy Land. It's as if people are trying to fulfil the end of days prophecy. If you believe in God, then try to find some comfort in knowing this was his plan.
Just read your tag and past comments.
I can see it clearly now,God is testing us right now with these Palestinians , just like he did with amalekites. Its obvious he wants us to have this God given land by any means. He told us to destroy amalekites and now we shall also destroy palestinian who dare take our God given land. I can clearly see how we should have no respect of Palestinian death , just like we had no remorse when we killed all the amalekites. Its ok if god use us to do his dirty work. But, its our given land by GOD
No one cares about the rocks and stones thrown by Palestinians that don't cause death and destruction either, because no one is dying. When Israel strikes, they strike civilian targets due to that being where the rockets were fired from. I do however think that people in this thread are bending over backwards to clean Israel's disgusting image and not admit that they are causing many deaths, with superior technology and recon that Palestine doesn't have. Hamas is defending itself, their defense positions are saturated with people. Israel knows this, and fires anyway to protect itself from the Non-Threat of palestines firework show. One side is in an international role of maturity, and doesn't exercise it.
This is the main problem with these two dumbshit factions of humanity. Israel apologists wont admit the atrocities Israel is currently doing as we type. Its a horror thats going on, with support of the International community. The international community needs to step in and break these two bickering children up, as they haven't been able to come to any diplomatic solution, ever. And in the meantime, people are dying over it. Israel being a superior force, holds the responsibility to make sure they don't kill innocent people. They don't, and there is no condemnation or legal prosecution against them for doing so.
Its the honor system, and both sides are acting completely dishonorable when it comes to their citizens.
Its a big shit pie, but I hope the world gets to the point where enough is enough. Neither party deserves land if this is how they act with it. Should just be made into a international theme park of how stupid human beings can be for thousands of years. With a cinnabon in the middle.
This is absolutely no case of Poor, POOR israel trying to make peace with their precision civilian killing strikes. No, both sides have ruined this, and both sides are 100% accountable.
Its absolutely no different than striking targets that you know aren't a threat, and will have massive civilian casualties. And I'm not trusting any governments word over who its trying to target and who it isn't. As governments all lie. Its a baby shit difference that holds no merit in the eyes of the Israeli/Palestinian who loses their loved one. Collateral damage isn't A.OK when its been happening in this specific region forever. Its just an excuse to kill people and feel good about it in the morning. The theater they are fighting their conflict in, is heavily saturated with civilians. Israel is aware of this.
When people are being targeted by the I.D.F, I firmly believe they have a very specific reason. If someone gets killed by collateral damage, it is indeed sad, but just like in any military conflict, happens. The main difference between the I.D.F. and the Hamas is, however, that the Hamas targets civilians on purpose.
I don't know that anyone really know the true nature of the Iran Hamas relationship at this point, though it's true, it's most likely not as good it was a year ago (my guess that in no small amount due to Iran's limited ability to provide funds because of the sanctions, but that's pure speculation on my part).
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
It's more logical to interpret that as an act of war (see: Japan).
I read an article somewhere stating that if Israel and Iran do go to war against each other then Hamas would refuse to get involved because they don't want to play the role of Iran's bitch during that ordeal. I'm paraphrasing of course. Will find the source.
EDIT: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/06/hamas-no-military-aid-for-iran
You just spelled the main problem, backwards: The Palestinians firmly believe this is their land, Jerusalem is their capital, and they must do everything in their power to kill the Jews and expel them from the land.
If you ask any Israeli person on the street, he'll tell you he wouldn't mind having peace, but true peace, as in, peace for peace. What the Palestinians want is to take over Israel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9RraMYttIQ
RustyNails
Member
Get your head checked. You're insane.
el retorno
Member
Bibi's never actually launched a war. Actually I'm not sure any rightwing party has ever started a major military operation, I might be wrong though.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
^Like a legal war? I mean doesn't a state have to be recognized before you can officially declare war on it?
You've got this all settled in your mind. I'm sure you could have a Palestinian in this thread tell you outright that he disagrees with your points and it wouldn't do anything.
You've got this all settled in your mind. I'm sure you could have a Palestinian in this thread tell you outright that he disagrees with your points and it wouldn't do anything.
Go get some history lessons, son.
Agent Unknown
Member
A)This is a disgusting, racist, callous statement that you really should apologize for. But since I know that you have a very religious slant on this topic from your tag, I only think it's appropriate to point out that B) the God of Israel didn't feel the same way you do, so maybe you should try telling that to him:
Exodus 22:21You must not mistreat or oppress foreigners in any way. Remember, you yourselves were once foreigners in the land of Egypt." -New Living Translation
Alien residents living within ancient Israel had strong protections under the Mosaic law and it was considered a severe sin to mistreat them in any way under the pretense that they were Gentiles and therefore somehow "lesser." King Solomon even said a prayer for foreigners when dedicating the temple asking that they be shown kindness and mercy. So actually, I think you're the one that needs a bit of a history lesson.
Anyways, I have no intention of starting a religious discussion, just pointing out how rediculously entitled and hypocritical you sound both from a spiritual and a literal standpoint.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Oh yea yea....Israel is the benevolent one here. How about we list all the materials banned from entering Gaza?
Israel is known to target Palestinian infrastructure:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ls-power-plant-attack-a-war-crime-417818.html
And that's just one example.
Why dont you tell everyone about the checkpoints all across the West Bank, which severely restricts the movement and rights of Palestinians? Palestine is pretty much in apartheid territory at the moment, why havent you mentioned any of that?
You don't need to go that far, naval blockade has been an Israeli casus belli for years.
In fact, it was the main reason it started the Six Day War.
...... so lets continue this for another lifetime.....
You realize the argument is identical from the Palestinian side... and that there will never be a correct answer from the two, based on their religion, which is resulting in thousands dead.. right? Your link and your statement have absolutely no value, and that this is a situation that needs moderation that will rule and enforce the decision. Sort of like when the UNSCOP deemed israel the place for the jews in the first place, but this time police it if need be to ensure that people are able to live normal lives with no threats of rockets or bulldozers.
You guys can't have nice things. And this is why.
Care to explain how jews lived there under islamic rule for centuries?
Fuck Israel and its bogus state.
Gentleman Jack
Member
And after he's done that he'll have learned some history.
Meanwhile, you're stuck being crazy.
I believe because I lived the terrorism ever since I was a child. When I was eight years old a club I went to exploded 30 minutes after I left. When I was a teenager buses, restaurants and what-not exploded around the country and for the past decade I've been living under the constant threat of missiles. So yes, I wouldn't care less for what any Palestinian say.
Crazy or not, your country is doing the same thing. Stop being a hypocrite. If you want to cry for lost lives, go cry for the Syrians who are being murdered by their own government.
RustyNails
Member
Don't call me son. Your intolerance is thundering, and if many people think like the way you do, Israel is truly fucked for a long time.
And its been all good for those on the other side who have lived under occupation for decades. Great life.
Gentleman Jack
Member
What is my government doing and when did I say I was okay with it?
el retorno
Member
No. Its economic suppression not "terrorism." I'm trying to stick to pretty firm definitions. Terrorism is always thrown out randomly.
I use the State Department's definition "Definitions ... the term 'terrorism' means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents"
PS3GamerKyle
Member
I hate twitter.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Fuck both parties
Political hacks perfectly fine with putting their people in danger of each other.
this conflict is so tired and pety, zero leadership, zero progression.
Political hacks perfectly fine with putting their people in danger of each other.
this conflict is so tired and pety, zero leadership, zero progression.
All the people in Israel, besides the extreme leftists ,support the operation. Would the U.S. act any differently if Mexico, for example, fired missiles on it's cities for over a decade? Over 200 missiles in 48 hours? Pft, don't even answer.
CyclopsRock
Member
I think that the discussion about who kills more people is somewhat irrelevant, though I can see the appeal - it's a quantifiable point of contention in an otherwise murkily ambiguous world.
I think, in a struggle that's lasted so long that few of those fighting it were involved in its origin, it's tough to say that one side are the goodies and one side are the baddies. What I would say, though, is that if your goal is to stop something - anything, be it the firing of rockets into border towns, or the continuing quasi-occupation of Gaza and the West Bank - there are various steps you can take to try and change it. How good your tools are does not change the rights and wrongs of your actions, though very possibly the manner in which you use them will. If you're Israel and you're targeting people or buildings that you believe to be housing and firing missiles onto your people, your goal is to stop that happening, not to stop X number happening up to but not extending beyond that killed in said towns. Each action should be judged on its own merits, without arbitrary or abstract containments. This also means that each incident of mass civilian deaths (on both sides) should be treated with condemnation.
I think, in a struggle that's lasted so long that few of those fighting it were involved in its origin, it's tough to say that one side are the goodies and one side are the baddies. What I would say, though, is that if your goal is to stop something - anything, be it the firing of rockets into border towns, or the continuing quasi-occupation of Gaza and the West Bank - there are various steps you can take to try and change it. How good your tools are does not change the rights and wrongs of your actions, though very possibly the manner in which you use them will. If you're Israel and you're targeting people or buildings that you believe to be housing and firing missiles onto your people, your goal is to stop that happening, not to stop X number happening up to but not extending beyond that killed in said towns. Each action should be judged on its own merits, without arbitrary or abstract containments. This also means that each incident of mass civilian deaths (on both sides) should be treated with condemnation.
el retorno
Member
el retorno
Member
That's in the west bank i believe.
He just called himself out for his bullshit.
Had no defense, so cried that Your country is doing the same thing, and you're a hypocrite. There are several people posting at him, and several things, horrible things, our governments are all doing. Its admitting that what Israel is doing, is wrong, but your country does it too, so bug off!
Thats a long jump from Israel is so innocent and they wouldn't hurt a fly.
I say its mental progress.
I don't know why this semantic game even matter, but regardless of how you call it, Israel consider that type of blockade an act of war (as do most countries by the way).
I'll be shocked if you'll see public support for this below 70%.
At least until Israelis start dying, that tend to blunt the blood lust.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
So I take it you're against Palestinians living/working in Israel?
I simply say you should stop criticizing other countries actions, when yours have the same issue. Fix domestic problems first, and then go out and criticize others.
Gentleman Jack
Member
You spoiled it! 
I still wouldn't mind you enumerating these 'issues' of which you speak.
Actually, before the "uprising" most Palestinians worked in Israel. Most of the soldiers in the area didn't even have weapons. That situation was excellent for both sides, and even for the economy. Ever since Israel gave the Palestinians weapons when Rabin signed an agreement with Arrafat, like he requested, things got downhill.
el retorno
Member
I'm not disagreeing with that. I believe Israel has had ongoing military operations against Palestine since forever. I was just saying that Israel had not been committing terrorism just by occupying.
Again I was going after his use of "all" , "even the extreme leftists"
And if ground troops go in a think a lot of support will be lost since there will be a lot more israelis dying.
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